I'm an idiot

[shadowplay]

There's another guy in the art department I noticed since the breakup who is older (25+) and comes off as quite smart, confident and interesting. I guess my mind was just searching for a way to get over my ex.

 

I've never actually spoken to this guy, but he's in one of my classes. Sound familiar? Usually I'd craft a plan for trying to get to know him, as I did with my ex...but considering what just happened, I need to do some serious soul searching and stop making assumptions about people from a distance, then getting overly invested before I really understand them. Every time I do, I get burned.

 

I have this immature way of targeting particular guys because they have some aura of "coolness," (usually a combination of intelligence, attitude, intensity and/or humor) then pursuing them to the exclusion of anyone else. I tend to be overly picky -- out a group of 200 guys, only one will even remotely interest me -- but probably for the wrong traits. On some level I go for people I admire, and compatibility doesn't weigh in as heavily.

 

But the bottom line is I'm just not ready to date again until I improve my confidence and self-reliance.

[threebyfate]

There's an inherent unstableness that's associated to having a lot of creativity since it's driven by emotion. Historically, the most brilliant and creative artists lacked boundaries of self-protection to the point where they were self-destructive.

 

And yet an interesting juxtaposition to this, is that artists tend to flit from emotion to emotion, most often living on the surface.

 

Or maybe that's the difference between creative genii and posers.

[shadowplay]

Having suffered from the same curse in my 20's I can answer this one.

 

The answer is yes, but he will likely be chubby and balding as well as charming and brilliant.... and solid.

 

My solution, I started going for the semi hot blue collar types instead which actually worked better much to my surprise.

 

That's a hard compromise to swallow.

 

What was your experience like with the creative types?

 

I can see how the blue collar types might be in a sense more dependable and less screwy in the head.

 

I wouldn't mind dating a guy who had a non-creative profession, but it's important to me that he has a strong appreciation of culture...otherwise I'd always miss that connection. I also don't do well with very practical-minded guys, but maybe I've been veering too far in the other extreme.

[Jilly Bean]

Shadow - maybe I can offer you some simple advice that will keep you from acting out like this in the future with breakups.

 

The more you do these things that do nothing but paint you in a bad light (continuing to contact him when you tell him you won't and he's asked you not to, continuing to show up uninvited, losing all self-respect by throwing yourself at him, allowing him to use you for experimental and NSA sex, etc.), the more you give him every rationale that he was right in breaking up with you. Get what I mean? If you let him know you were hurt but then kept the mourning and grief to yourself, maintained your dignity and self-respect, then down the road, when he thought of you, it would be with regret. Now that he's seen this side of you, he can tell himself that you were not what he would have wanted long-term anyhow. And no one could blame him, not even you...

 

All of the tactics you employed won't ever win a guy back, and I imagine on some level, that was the hidden wish. Unfortunately, all you did was confirm what he was saying all along about why he didn't want to date you anymore.

 

So many great learning opportunities here for you, and yes, these are VERY popular mistakes I think a lot of women have made (I know I have!). Hopefully next time, you'll convey your disappointment and hurt, and then rely on your support system and go STRICT NC.

 

A very close friend of mine was with his GF for 4 years. One day, he woke up, and decided he wanted to sample other fruit (whatta dick). Of course, a few months later, he realized what a huge mistake he made, and tried (unsuccessfully) to get her back. During the time they were apart, his GF showed SO much class when he devasted her world, I was incredibly impressed (and she knew he had an active profile on match.com!). She told him she was hurt and stunned, and that was it. She didn't stalk him, she didn't harrass him, and she certainly didn't resort to sexual tricks or games to "win" him back. She behaved like a lady, with total dignity, that it only added to his regret. If she had gone bat **** crazy on him, then I think he would have felt justified and continued to move on. Instead, her display of intense self-respect only made him realize what a true treasure he had lost.

 

Bottom line, when a guy dumps you and says it's because you're XYZ (and you don't believe it), then you don't go out and prove him right.

[shadowplay]

There's an inherent unstableness that's associated to having a lot of creativity since it's driven by emotion. Historically, the most brilliant and creative artists lacked boundaries of self-protection to the point where they were self-destructive.

 

And yet an interesting juxtaposition to this, is that artists tend to flit from emotion to emotion, most often living on the surface.

 

Or maybe that's the difference between creative genii and posers.

 

This may be somehow related, but I've found that what I've too often mistaken for emotional depth in some of those creative types is actually shallowness. It's hard to find anybody who feels both intensely and consistently.

[shadowplay]

Shadow - maybe I can offer you some simple advice that will keep you from acting out like this in the future with breakups.

 

The more you do these things that do nothing but paint you in a bad light (continuing to contact him when you tell him you won't and he's asked you not to, continuing to show up uninvited, losing all self-respect by throwing yourself at him, allowing him to use you for experimental and NSA sex, etc.), the more you give him every rationale that he was right in breaking up with you. Get what I mean? If you let him know you were hurt but then kept the mourning and grief to yourself, maintained your dignity and self-respect, then down the road, when he thought of you, it would be with regret. Now that he's seen this side of you, he can tell himself that you were not what he would have wanted long-term anyhow. And no one could blame him, not even you...

 

All of the tactics you employed won't ever win a guy back, and I imagine on some level, that was the hidden wish. Unfortunately, all you did was confirm what he was saying all along about why he didn't want to date you anymore.

 

So many great learning opportunities here for you, and yes, these are VERY popular mistakes I think a lot of women have made (I know I have!). Hopefully next time, you'll convey your disappointment and hurt, and then rely on your support system and go STRICT NC.

 

A very close friend of mine was with his GF for 4 years. One day, he woke up, and decided he wanted to sample other fruit (whatta dick). Of course, a few months later, he realized what a huge mistake he made, and tried (unsuccessfully) to get her back. During the time they were apart, his GF showed SO much class when he devasted her world, I was incredibly impressed (and she knew he had an active profile on match.com!). She told him she was hurt and stunned, and that was it. She didn't stalk him, she didn't harrass him, and she certainly didn't resort to sexual tricks or games to "win" him back. She behaved like a lady, with total dignity, that it only added to his regret. If she had gone bat **** crazy on him, then I think he would have felt justified and continued to move on. Instead, her display of intense self-respect only made him realize what a true treasure he had lost.

 

Bottom line, when a guy dumps you and says it's because you're XYZ (and you don't believe it), then you don't go out and prove him right.

 

Well put. Believe me, I know it. This is why I'm kicking myself now.

[Hot Carl]

This may be somehow related, but I've found that what I've too often mistaken for emotional depth in some of those creative types is actually shallowness. It's hard to find anybody who feels both intensely and consistently.

 

You could find intensity and consistency in any guy. And an appreciation of arts and culture as well. You might be making the mistake of thinking you want to have these things in common when it might be true that you'd be just as happy or more with a guy who doesn't share all your interests. As long as you have core values in common (which "appreciation for art" doesn't need to be at the top of the list in my mind) you'll be better off. Maybe the question that needs to be asked is what are your core values, Shadow?

[Jilly Bean]

Well put. Believe me, I know it. This is why I'm kicking myself now.

 

Well, then stop kicking. If you've learned the lesson, then NONE of this was in vain. Just the crap we all have to go through to come out the outside side wiser, and stronger.

 

And now you can just stop having contact with him. There is no reason to send an email to tell him you won't be contacting him. Just don't contact him again - he'll get the point.

[CLC2008]

You know Shadow, sometimes they say that the person you are with is a reflection. As if you are looking at a reflection of yourself in a mirror.

 

Deep stuff, I know. But it does make sense.

 

I look at my friend and she is with a very nice guy who some would say, exhibits doormat behavior. My friend on the other hand, she does not. She is a hard, hard a*s and self introspection is not in her vocabulary.

 

She gets on his case over simple things. Just to give you an example, he was making HER dinner the other night and he wasn't doing it "right", according to her, and she made fun of him.

 

He pulled on her light fan a little too hard, and she got on his case for that, and not in a nice way. He's already referred to her as yes ma'am, yes sir, you get the point and it's only a few months in...

 

To quote the famous movie, The Karate Kid:

 

Daniel: No offense, Mr. Miyaji, but I don't think you understand my problem...

Miyagi: (interrupting) Mi... ya... *gi* understand problem perfect.

 

 

[Joe Normal]

Oddly enough this is the second of my four serious relationships where my boyfriend wanted to be pegged, dominated and humiliated. Sometimes I like to be slightly dominant in bed, but not nearly to that extent. In the other relationship, he later decided he was transgendered and is now in the process of transitioning into a woman. That's all well and good, but it makes me wonder if it my "man" picker is off.

 

Blame it on all this online porn, it seems to be creating a generation of wild and crazy freaks.

[shadowplay]

You know Shadow, sometimes they say that the person you are with is a reflection. As if you are looking at a reflection of yourself in a mirror.

 

Deep stuff, I know. But it does make sense.

 

I look at my friend and she is with a very nice guy who some would say, exhibits doormat behavior. My friend on the other hand, she does not. She is a hard, hard a*s and self introspection is not in her vocabulary.

 

She gets on his case over simple things. Just to give you an example, he was making HER dinner the other night and he wasn't doing it "right", according to her, and she made fun of him.

 

He pulled on her light fan a little too hard, and she got on his case for that, and not in a nice way. He's already referred to her as yes ma'am, yes sir, you get the point and it's only a few months in...

 

To quote the famous movie, The Karate Kid:

 

Daniel: No offense, Mr. Miyaji, but I don't think you understand my problem...

Miyagi: (interrupting) Mi... ya... *gi* understand problem perfect.

 

 

 

How does this apply to my situation?

[CLC2008]

How does this apply to my situation?

 

Eh I'm too tired to explain it.

 

But maybe others can chime in and help figure it out.

[shadowplay]

Well, then stop kicking. If you've learned the lesson, then NONE of this was in vain. Just the crap we all have to go through to come out the outside side wiser, and stronger.

 

And now you can just stop having contact with him. There is no reason to send an email to tell him you won't be contacting him. Just don't contact him again - he'll get the point.

 

I agree that it's a great learning experience.

 

But at the same time I don't want to be thinking to myself that I screwed up something wonderful with my post-break-up behavior or that he was RIGHT for leaving me. That would just feel too painful to entertain right now. I mean I can still do better than him, right?

[Jilly Bean]

I agree that it's a great learning experience.

 

But at the same time I don't want to be thinking to myself that I screwed up something wonderful with my post-break-up behavior or that he was RIGHT for leaving me. That would just feel too painful to entertain right now. I mean I can still do better than him, right?

 

You didn't screw up anything wonderful, Shadow. Whatever was between the two of you clearly wasn't shared by both. So, while it was something amazing to you, which matters, it wasn't to him. So ultimately, the "wonderfulness" doesn't exist.

 

And he left you BEFORE you went a little off the deep end. So, anything that happened after he ended it, didn't contribute to the break-up.

 

As I said, all it did was give him the rationalization that you weren't right for each other.

 

And you can, and WILL do better than him.

 

See, I believe all experiences in life are a continuum. That each adventure, opportunity, event, all string together. That we are put her to learn things to help us become better, whole people. Where this becomes flawed, is when people DON'T learn. Then, they are doomed to repeat the pattern over and over.

 

So, when you are feeling better, and stronger, then you shall make a list of what you learned from this relationship, both good and bad, and that's what you will take into the next one.

 

Maybe the next guy will be "the one", and maybe not. But, I know he will get you closer to total understanding.

[Star Gazer]

This may be somehow related, but I've found that what I've too often mistaken for emotional depth in some of those creative types is actually shallowness. It's hard to find anybody who feels both intensely and consistently.

 

Have you noticed that you're guilty of the same thing?

[Jilly Bean]

How does this apply to my situation?

 

I didn't get it either.

 

CL - I think Shadow is guilty of what most of are. Wanting to be loved, and love someone back.

 

Sadly, such a basic human drive becomes so muddied and mired by our own baggage and hangups, and those of our partner.

 

This is why we struggle, and this is why therapy, and places like LS exist.

 

We all have a tendency to seek partners that repeat the same pattern from our family of origin. This means we end up in situations that are familar, and comfortable, but not always the best for us emotionally. Again, this is why we struggle.

 

I don't agree that we end up with people who are a mirror of ourselves. I think we end up with people who allow us to perpetrate the role we had as kids, and our partner becomes one, or both, of our parents.

 

So, if you grew up with a lot of chaos in your home, then chances are strong you will seek out drama and trauma in your adult relationships. If you grew up being denied love, attention and affection, then you will seek out a partner who will ignore you and invalidate you. If you grew up with infidelity, then chances are good you will have that in your relationship as well.

[2sunny]

JB is right. to some extent we seek the familiar because we are comfortable with the role we played growing up. it's the only one we know; whether or not it is healthy.

 

to understand this and to purposely seek for the unfamiliar is key if it was unhealthy. never to be treading into the familiar waters again because we already know what that will give us.

 

this involves change and willingness to explore what is uncomfortable.

[CLC2008]

I didn't get it either.

 

CL - I think Shadow is guilty of what most of are. Wanting to be loved, and love someone back.

 

Sadly, such a basic human drive becomes so muddied and mired by our own baggage and hangups, and those of our partner.

 

This is why we struggle, and this is why therapy, and places like LS exist.

 

We all have a tendency to seek partners that repeat the same pattern from our family of origin. This means we end up in situations that are familar, and comfortable, but not always the best for us emotionally. Again, this is why we struggle.

 

I don't agree that we end up with people who are a mirror of ourselves. I think we end up with people who allow us to perpetrate the role we had as kids, and our partner becomes one, or both, of our parents.

 

So, if you grew up with a lot of chaos in your home, then chances are strong you will seek out drama and trauma in your adult relationships. If you grew up being denied love, attention and affection, then you will seek out a partner who will ignore you and invalidate you. If you grew up with infidelity, then chances are good you will have that in your relationship as well.

 

Sometimes the person we are with is a reflection. As if we are looking at our own reflection in the mirror.

 

Sometimes we don't like what we see, and it manifests itself through controlling the other person, so that we don't have to see, acknowledge and/or accept our own vulnerabilities.

 

I support therapy, I have had therapy, there's a lot about my life that I don't disclose on here, because it's private for me and I am not comfortable with sharing a lot of it on an open forum. I commend people like Shadow (and others) that do.

 

And I understand fully about childhood and how it carries through to adulthood. Trust me.

 

I have hope for Shadow, even though I don't know her personally. And I hope that she has enough hope within herself, to carry her through.

[shadowplay]

Have you noticed that you're guilty of the same thing?

 

Nah, I think it's more complicated than that. My feelings can be shallow toward people I don't know well in terms of intensity and consistency. I can have pseudo-intense crushes that wax and wane...

 

But once I genuinely grow to love somebody and give my heart to them as I did with my ex, it's really hard for me to go back, even in the face of damning evidence. I snap out of it eventually, but it takes a long time.

 

I loved my ex a great deal. It wasn't infatuation on my end. I know the difference, because I've felt both. I'm sure it would have been deeper had we been together longer, but it was still very strong for me. Just goes to show you that love really exists in an individual's mind, because it can exist for one and not the other. I still do love him, though it's dying as my respect for him withers and I accept the breakup.

[Star Gazer]

Nah, I think it's more complicated than that. My feelings can be shallow toward people I don't know well in terms of intensity and consistency. I can have pseudo-intense crushes that wax and wane...

 

Your feelings towards your ex, as well as your ex-ex, were manic, and not consistent at all.

[Star Gazer]

JB is right on all counts... but you know that.

[shadowplay]

Your feelings towards your ex, as well as your ex-ex, were manic, and not consistent at all.

 

You don't know what's in my heart.

[northstar1]

Ultimately, you deserve better, don't you Shadow?

[Star Gazer]

You don't know what's in my heart.

 

I know what you posted here. Were you lying about your feelings towards both of them? How they were up and down and all over the place?

[shadowplay]

I know what you posted here. Were you lying about your feelings towards both of them? How they were up and down and all over the place?

 

My feelings for my ex-ex weren't very deep, but they were for my ex.

 

Where did I write that my feelings for my ex were up and down all the time? The only point where they went down was before the abortion, because he became a conditioned stimulus for my nausea. When we first started going out, it took longer for my feelings to get to where his were, but that's because I wanted to make sure I could trust him first...which is natural. Over time they grew, and I do/did love him. My love wasn't just based on how sweet/caring he was; it was also about our connection. We saw the world in similar ways, shared artistic sensibilities, likes and dislikes, and we taught each other a lot. We spent many hours making art together, sharing reflections on the world, and exploring the world. I know he felt that all too, because he said it many times before and after the breakup. He told me how rare he felt like the connection we had was. But somehow he forgot that; it was overshadowed by other things. I suspect one day when things blow off, he'll realize what he's lost in that connection, but I doubt he'll ever come back because of how stubborn he is.

 

What I write on LS is only a small piece of my life. You don't see the whole picture unless you're actually in the relationship.

 

With my ex-ex, he had me emotionally hooked, but our connection was never deep. We shared little in common. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by not being with him.

Edited April 18, 2010 by shadowplay