eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Well, I have been on here before, so some of you know my story. Well, about 8 months my wife had an A with a guy across the country, a one night stand that she has always acted very sorry for. I have forgiven her and tried not to bring it back up and I have done a pretty good job of forgetting about that A. I do still have issues of checking up on her and that has been worsened by her actually talking to him, it wasn't her fault, the guy just called her out of the blue back in Feb, but she did choose to talk to him, disrespecting me. Every night she is home with me and the kids, she is a stay at home mom, which back before any of this started was the greatest thing for the kids and I have been able to support our family and up until this has happened my world has been great. I do manage to get sleep and I credit that to reading a couple of Willard Harley's books. I know it bothers her still, she is constantly looking at me and telling me she loves me. The thing is, I have been looking at her history on her computer (she is a photographer) and she did a series of pictures of herself in lingerie. I believe she is doing these for me so I have to act like I don't know they exist. The problem is that she did those a couple of weeks ago and I have noticed that in her history those pictures are being accessed every few days which makes me think she is sending pictures to men, which she did back before she had the affair. I know for a fact she has sent pictures to men in the past and that kills me. I feel that eventually she is going to have an A and I just dread that day that I find out, especially for my kids. Does anybody have any words of advice for me? I don't really want to bring up the pictures cause she may be editing them for me, but its just usually one picture. I feel horrible that I have to still snoop on her but the trust is just not there.
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 Just to clarify this a little more, she has done the lingerie pictures for me in the past. The pictures she did during the A were topless.
Ronni_W Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 I don't really want to bring up the pictures cause she may be editing them for me, but its just usually one picture. About those photos, you only have two options: 1. Communicate with your wife about your concerns. Consider what is more important for your emotional well-being and the long-term health of your marriage -- that you start learning about her trustworthiness, or that you possibly "ruin" a potential surprise? 2. Somehow make yourself forget that the photos exist. (I have no idea how. But you either do that, or allow your knowledge of the photos to further poison your own mind and also your view of your wife.) Quite honestly, I think you already have a pretty good idea about how she intends to use those pics. Trust your instincts. Put things in context of her past behaviour. Communicate your current-day concerns -- make it about what is going on NOW. When you speak with her, I would not necessarily offer that scenario of it being a surprise for you. If that is the truth of it, let it come from her so that you will 100% be able to believe her. Otherwise, it surely will sound like a really handy excuse or far-fetched idea, don't you think?
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) About those photos, you only have two options: 1. Communicate with your wife about your concerns. Consider what is more important for your emotional well-being and the long-term health of your marriage -- that you start learning about her trustworthiness, or that you possibly "ruin" a potential surprise? 2. Somehow make yourself forget that the photos exist. (I have no idea how. But you either do that, or allow your knowledge of the photos to further poison your own mind and also your view of your wife.) Quite honestly, I think you already have a pretty good idea about how she intends to use those pics. Trust your instincts. Put things in context of her past behaviour. Communicate your current-day concerns -- make it about what is going on NOW. When you speak with her, I would not necessarily offer that scenario of it being a surprise for you. If that is the truth of it, let it come from her so that you will 100% be able to believe her. Otherwise, it surely will sound like a really handy excuse or far-fetched idea, don't you think? Yeah, I am not sure if confronting her about the pictures is such a good idea at this point cause I don't know what she is doing with em for sure. I have access to her email and I don't think she is sending them through that but there are so many ways to send pictures these days. It would be so simple for her to say, "Oh, those pictures, those are for you honey", and it would end right there. It's tough, I don't want her to have another A on me, it truly would be over. I also want her to believe that I trust her cause I feel that every time I bring something up we go backwards, so I only try to be positive when we are together. She knows she only has one more chance with me and she has changed a lot of her ways cause of this. I think she just likes the attention like a lot of women and she is bored, thats what started it the first time. I just worry about how far she will take it this time. I have even thought about trying to make some friends that are girls just to give her a taste of what I feel, since she seems to get pretty jealous about that kind of thing. Edited April 16, 2010 by eddie_d_2000 Added info..
Sazerac Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 I have even thought about trying to make some friends that are girls just to give her a taste of what I feel, since she seems to get pretty jealous about that kind of thing. Probably not a good idea. Revenge fantasy is one thing; acting out on it is thin ice that can lead to a highly undesirable end. Taking the high road is always best. Consider: If the situation has gotten to the point that you would want to retaliate, how good can it be to begin with?
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 Probably not a good idea. Revenge fantasy is one thing; acting out on it is thin ice that can lead to a highly undesirable end. Taking the high road is always best. Consider: If the situation has gotten to the point that you would want to retaliate, how good can it be to begin with? That's true, I have been following Conflicted Guy's posts and my wife is not even close to her, so for that I have something to be thankful for. I guess for now I should try to forget about this stuff like the previous poster said and try to move on. I think if an A was going to happen, the signs would be there, after the first one happened, I look back and know now what the signs were, I was just too trusting and blind to see em.
Owl Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Keylogger on her computer... See if she's emailing them, or what. You've got more than enough reason, given her past, to suspect something when you see what you've seen recently. If you find nothing...ok. But since she's got a history of this kind of thing in the past, you've got good reason to have a concern.
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) It just stinks, when I get home everything is fine, we sit down with the kids, have supper, watch TV pretty much every night. We have been going places together on trips, getting ready to go to Disney world at the end of May for a family trip, so its not like she doesn't want to be around me. She has changed quite a bit for the better, its really just when she gets on that computer, but you know all about that Owl, you have helped me in the past. I think its just a phase she is going through where she likes the attention she gets from men on the internet combined with her boredom. And we have been having sex at least twice a week and I think that comes from her being in her 30's combined with possibly what she is doing on the internet. And Owl, even if she was sending pictures of herself to other men, its not really a reason to get a divorce, just yet another reason to hit reset on the trust button. I keep wanting to believe she is a changed woman, and for the most part she is, the contact is way down from what it used to be. The problem with the keylogger was that when she updated her virus scanner it showed up and removed it, so I kinda gave up on that and just kinda started trusting her in hopes any kind of A symptoms would eventually show up, if one were to ever happen. Edited April 16, 2010 by eddie_d_2000
Owl Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 And Owl, even if she was sending pictures of herself to other men, its not really a reason to get a divorce, just yet another reason to hit reset on the trust button. I keep wanting to believe she is a changed woman, and for the most part she is, the contact is way down from what it used to be. The problem with the keylogger was that when she updated her virus scanner it showed up and removed it, so I kinda gave up on that and just kinda started trusting her in hopes any kind of A symptoms would eventually show up, if one were to ever happen. Here's the disconnect between us, my friend. You know full well that her sending pics to men on the internet is a betrayal of you, and of your marriage. You are also painfully aware of what the next steps to that kind of behavior are likely to be as well. If you're willing to accept her sending pics without taking any firm, concrete, painful actions to enforce a boundary to protect your marriage...then why care at all if she is sending these pics? Rather than stress over it, you might as well accept it. I couldn't do so...for me, if my wife were to re-engage in the same behaviors that led to her affair, or to engage in some kind of "picture exchange" like you've described...it would be a one-time choice...stop the behavior, or we end the marriage. That point blank. I get that you may have a different view than mine...I'm just sharing with you how things would work if I were in your shoes. I've told my wife many times since her affair ended...I will NOT fight for my marriage like that again. It's up to her to keep her side of the bargain, and if she were to cross that line again (and sending lingerie pics would certainly be across that line for me)...we'd be dealing with divorce, rather than trying to reconcile or work through those issues again. Let me ask you a blunt question...if you were to find that she was sending these pics to other men online...what do you plan to do about it?
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) Here's the disconnect between us, my friend. You know full well that her sending pics to men on the internet is a betrayal of you, and of your marriage. You are also painfully aware of what the next steps to that kind of behavior are likely to be as well. If you're willing to accept her sending pics without taking any firm, concrete, painful actions to enforce a boundary to protect your marriage...then why care at all if she is sending these pics? Rather than stress over it, you might as well accept it. I couldn't do so...for me, if my wife were to re-engage in the same behaviors that led to her affair, or to engage in some kind of "picture exchange" like you've described...it would be a one-time choice...stop the behavior, or we end the marriage. That point blank. I get that you may have a different view than mine...I'm just sharing with you how things would work if I were in your shoes. I've told my wife many times since her affair ended...I will NOT fight for my marriage like that again. It's up to her to keep her side of the bargain, and if she were to cross that line again (and sending lingerie pics would certainly be across that line for me)...we'd be dealing with divorce, rather than trying to reconcile or work through those issues again. Let me ask you a blunt question...if you were to find that she was sending these pics to other men online...what do you plan to do about it? That is a question I have asked myself, and I really don't know the answer cause you are right, we all know where that leads to. She is such a loving person these days and that makes it so hard to believe she is doing anything behind my back, she doesn't show any of the symptoms of a person in an affair. My only thought at this point is that she is like a horny teenager, just wants to send pictures of herself to guys and get their comments back. Owl, have you used one of these hardware key loggers? You know, the kind that you plug a USB mouse into and then plug into the PC? Those claim to be undetectable by scanning software so I was wondering. Divorce is such a tough decision though, such a tough road financially. I know, I know, "But the peace of mind is so worth it". But I don't really know, she isn't a nagging or abusive or stay out all the time kind of wife, and at this point, divorce wouldn't make anything better for me, just harder really. I would have to share my kids, I would have a lot less money, and have to look for some other woman to replace my wife, which by all standards, she is a really good wife, just has her problems. Edited April 16, 2010 by eddie_d_2000
Owl Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 I've never used a hardware version, but I can believe that they're undetectable by virus software...but they're also not going to record all the details you're going to want to get. Those kind ONLY record keystrokes, and don't provide anything else...so you won't know the context of the keystrokes, nor the "other side" of the conversation. I'd focus on a software version, and find a way to get her antivirus to recognize it so that it doesn't alarm on it. The bottom line is that you have to decide what you want. If having a wife that is 'mostly' faithful to you is acceptable...well, there ya go. If all the other things about her "make up for" her other actions...then there's no confllict. Learn to accept it, and stop worrying about it. If not...then do something to change the situation. That's the best I can offer you.
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) I've never used a hardware version, but I can believe that they're undetectable by virus software...but they're also not going to record all the details you're going to want to get. Those kind ONLY record keystrokes, and don't provide anything else...so you won't know the context of the keystrokes, nor the "other side" of the conversation. I'd focus on a software version, and find a way to get her antivirus to recognize it so that it doesn't alarm on it. The bottom line is that you have to decide what you want. If having a wife that is 'mostly' faithful to you is acceptable...well, there ya go. If all the other things about her "make up for" her other actions...then there's no confllict. Learn to accept it, and stop worrying about it. If not...then do something to change the situation. That's the best I can offer you. Yeah, the "Learn to accept it, and stop worrying about it" is the hardest part. I guess you could say if I wasn't ever snooping on her, I wouldn't have found the pictures. I can't say that I am "OK" with her sending pictures to men and such, but I can learn to get over that vs. a PA. I think she feels guilty about sending the pictures, maybe after she sends em she realizes that the guy really only wanted to get a pic of her, or wants to see some nudes or whatever they are doing and then when I get home she realizes how good I treat her and feels sorry, I am not sure. I also feel that if and when she does have an affair, she will be so deep in the 'fog' that she will make mistakes. The first time I found out, all I had to do was sit down in front of her running computer and look at the screen, she wasn't even trying to hide it. Edited April 16, 2010 by eddie_d_2000
lostsunsets Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 you definitely need a keylogger. She has cheated once (or more). You have to continue your spying. Get the keylogger.
Owl Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Yeah, the "Learn to accept it, and stop worrying about it" is the hardest part. I guess you could say if I wasn't ever snooping on her, I wouldn't have found the pictures. I can't say that I am "OK" with her sending pictures to men and such, but I can learn to get over that vs. a PA. See, this is where I can't really give you any advice. I COULDN'T accept it. I would never be ok with my wife sending pictures to another man, nor would I be able to get over it, knowing that it is still going on or that I even have any reason to suspect it's still going on. I'm not telling you that you HAVE to accept it. I'm telling you that if you're not going to do anything about it, then you are basically agreeing to accept it. I think she feels guilty about sending the pictures, maybe after she sends em she realizes that the guy really only wanted to get a pic of her, or wants to see some nudes or whatever they are doing and then when I get home she realizes how good I treat her and feels sorry, I am not sure. I also feel that if and when she does have an affair, she will be so deep in the 'fog' that she will make mistakes. The first time I found out, all I had to do was sit down in front of her running computer and look at the screen, she wasn't even trying to hide it. The problem you've got is that she's learned that she has to hide it. She's learned to 'take it underground' now, rather than learned to stop doing it (as demonstrated by your finding these new pictures and noting that she's periodically going back to them). Why do you have to wait until she actually starts to get emotional about someone else before you will feel compelled to take action? Why do you think it's not ok to confront and stop her from taking the pictures at all?
U2RockZz Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) i don't know what kind of key logger you are using....but generally most of the key loggers can not be detected through antivirus or spybot or lavasoft or even your lan wan settings here are some Spytech SpyAgent Stealth Edition 6.30.08 All In One Keylogger 3.1 KGB Spy 4.55 Stealth Keylogger 4.9 build 137 SpyBuddy 3.7.5 Elite Keylogger Pro 4.1 CyberSpy 2.7 here are some freeones http://hackspc.com/top-3-free-keylogger/ and install flexispy pro x on her mobile anyways why do you want to be with a cheater...she did it once...you accepted her back like nothing happened..what is going to stop her from doing it again...you are already relaxed your boundaries and more than ready forgive her even if she sent nude pictures to somebody other than you.... first get the std test, then meet the lawyer...and never confront her if you wanted the full truth Edited April 16, 2010 by U2RockZz
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Posted April 19, 2010 See if any of you guys have ever heard this from your wife. The one incident that just about sent me packing was this. I was suspicious that she was chatting with men using a texting program called Palringo, so I got an account and started looking for her and I finally found her. Well, I started a conversation with her, we carried out a conversation (she thought I was just some random person wanting to chat) for a while and she started to talk about how she thinks she lost her 'soul mate' and I kept offering advice on things. Well, just to verify she was who I thought she was I asked her where she was from and she verified all of that. Well, I screen-printed all of that and then confronted her with all of this information that night, she just sat there, well, I told her I couldn't trust her anymore and left the house. I went straight to her parents with this print out and showed it to them, they of course were terribly upset and just couldn't believe it, this is not something this girl would do, just never been in her nature. Well, in the meantime my wife is calling my phone and leaving me messages saying, "Its just role playing". I eventually came back home and that is the story she is going with, "Its just role playing, it all in fun". Have any of you guys ever heard this, that it is just "role playing"?
U2RockZz Posted April 19, 2010 Posted April 19, 2010 come on man, any person with 3 digit IQ would think that as a giant elf s***
Owl Posted April 19, 2010 Posted April 19, 2010 It's not fun if it hurts you, damages your trust in her, and overall undermines your marriage. What it IS her gaslighting you, trying to make you appear to be "the big bad insecure man" so that you'll cave in and meekly go along with what she's doing. Your response to her should be right back along what I just said. It's NOT harmless. It's NOT "just" anything...it's destroying your marriage, and your trust/love for her. And frankly, you need to INSIST that it stop, and seek marriage counseling to find a way to work out the issues in your marriage (and hopefully whatever it is inside of HER that is causing her to do what she's doing). Don't accept what is unacceptable!
Spark1111 Posted April 19, 2010 Posted April 19, 2010 Eddie, Eddie, Eddie....I am aghast! As a fBS, I cannot even imagine this scenario and the pain it is causing you. I cannot even fathom why she is doing it and how disrespectful it is to both you and the marriage. You are getting ready to go through all of this once again if firm action isn't taken NOW! She has a problem, and she needs help. If she does not get it today, I would have a bag packed and head for the door. You need to save your own sanity first. Look, before my fWS's affair, you could not find a more trusting partner on the planet: Bachelor parties at strip clubs? Sure, I trust you. Lots of porn viewing? Hell, most guys do that right? Mild flirtation with the waitress, secretaries, friends? Never took it personally. But since the affair? Boundaries all over the place to keep me in this relationship. Why? Because he obviously has very weak to non-existant boundaries. It's how we got into this mess to begin with. Wise up, my friend.
seibert253 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 See if any of you guys have ever heard this from your wife. The one incident that just about sent me packing was this. I was suspicious that she was chatting with men using a texting program called Palringo, so I got an account and started looking for her and I finally found her. Well, I started a conversation with her, we carried out a conversation (she thought I was just some random person wanting to chat) for a while and she started to talk about how she thinks she lost her 'soul mate' and I kept offering advice on things. Well, just to verify she was who I thought she was I asked her where she was from and she verified all of that. Well, I screen-printed all of that and then confronted her with all of this information that night, she just sat there, well, I told her I couldn't trust her anymore and left the house. I went straight to her parents with this print out and showed it to them, they of course were terribly upset and just couldn't believe it, this is not something this girl would do, just never been in her nature. Well, in the meantime my wife is calling my phone and leaving me messages saying, "Its just role playing". I eventually came back home and that is the story she is going with, "Its just role playing, it all in fun". Have any of you guys ever heard this, that it is just "role playing"? Eddie, I really hope your didn't buy that. She thinks she got away with it. Guess what, she WILL revert back to her old ways. Her's her thinking. "Whoooo, that was a close one, I need to lay low awhile then do better a covering my tracks next time" My friend, you are being lulled into a false sense of security. If you "just forgave her and moved on" without addressing the issue on why this occurred in first place, history will repeat itself my friend. I don't know what boundries you put in place for her, but you need to re evaluate and implement them. Also make it clear what the consequences are if she violates them. With the contact from the OM in Feb, how did you learn of this? Did she tell you about it right away, or did you find out on your own? If you found out and had to confront her about it, you've got SERIOUS problems my friend.
jnj express Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Hey eddie---your wife has already had one A, and now she is looking for more action. I suggest you read the mess randolf got himself into by forgiving his wife's spite, A., and then allowing her to go right back into contact with the guy she had the A. with. Married women who are true to their vows DO NOT SEND PICTURES OF THEMSELVES OUT TO STRANGE MEN, for any reason. How do you not know that some crazy psycho could end up with the picture, figure out where your wife is thru contact with her and come into your lives----you have 3 kids to protect---If you want to confront use that for a reason. She is associating with strangers that none of you know anything about. In this day and age that is a very dangerous practice. What your wife needs is some serious counseling. Don't kid yourself into believing everything is good----If it was good your wife wouldn't be sending out pictures, and you wouldn't be in turmoil. Put a stop to all of this now, before something does happen and you DO END IN DIVORCE
Church Bells Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Eddie: Please focus. Your head is in a spin but you need to listen to me very carefully. Your wife is a serial cheater. She has never stopped cheating. She's probably been cheating on you for many years--perhaps as long as you've known her. If you have children with her, they might not actually be yours. Get DNA tests ASAP. She's cheating on you right now. Sexy pix to other guys? Cheating. Phone conversation with her ex-affair partner? Cheating. Profiles on messaging sites/texting to you when she thought it was another guy? Cheating? And you're afraid to confront her about the pictures. You're afraid of her, Eddie. Why are you afraid? Why are you living your life in fear? Sadly, there is absolutely no hope for your marriage. The sooner you realize that, the better off you will be. She wants to be free to find her "soul mate"? Set her free. File for divorce ASAP. Eddie, I understand that each of us have different tolerances for pain, abuse, disrespect, etc., but you are here asking for advice ... so here is my 2 cents worth from MY perspective based on what I've learned from MY own experiences. I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE QUOTED POST!!! I simply couldn't, nor wouldn't tolerate this level of continued disrespect. The whole dynamic of our M has changed since my W's A. I no longer tolerate ANYTHING that even resembles disrespect. There is a very true saying that goes "The person who cares the LEAST in a relationship holds the power" ... and I've found that to be true from BOTH sides. Pre-A, I had put my W on a pedestal in my mind ... I viewed her as the perfect life partner ... and she held the keys to our marital happiness. Now 3 years post D-Day ... that dynamic has changed 180 degrees. I still love her very much, but our "perfect" relationship is now forever tainted in my mind, while she now recognizes ME as being the true love that was almost lost. It's really funny how the tighter you try to hold onto something, the more it wants to get away. You may not realize it, but you have the power to change the dynamic in your own M, but you have to be willing to truly "let go" before you will ever see that shift in your favor. Personally, I would proceed directly to Plan D with your circumstances ... but if you want to give your M ANOTHER chance, then follow Owl's advice to the letter. SERIOUSLY, think of what you've been doing and the results you've achieved ... it would appear a CHANGE in tactics is in order.
Church Bells Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 I do manage to get sleep and I credit that to reading a couple of Willard Harley's books. Eddie, One other thought ... as I said ... others have different experiences, but from my perspective as a fellow BH ... get as far away from the Marriage Builders stuff as possible. I can't express just how bad of an opinion I have developed about the MB program regarding BH/WW situations. Although their so-called vets will argue vehemently otherwise ... from my perspective, all MB is about is "hope" for BH's. As long as they can keep "hope" alive, then they have an opportunity to sell your more books, DVDs, counselling sessions, and the big ticket items like "online courses" and "MB weekends". Beware of any internet site that is "sales based", especially those that have to rely on bogus statistics and "success stories" from their own people.
Author eddie_d_2000 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) She isn't as bad as some of you make her out to be, she is weak like a lot of people are, and she made a mistake like a lot of WS have. I can't say for a fact that she has been sending pictures to men, all I have seen is that she accesses those pictures every now and then on the computer, which is just suspicious to me. Divorce is just such a big step and it effects everybody in the family and extended families so its not a step to be taken lightly for sure. I feel the sorriest for the kids, they, like me, never asked for any of this, yet we pay the full price for it. Get this guys, I know a man that has left his wife and is seeing another woman, he is still married!! That just completely blows me away guys, the nerve of some people. Edited April 20, 2010 by eddie_d_2000
Owl Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 OK, I can get that you're not QUITE to the divorce point yet. So what about this... You KNOW what she's done in the past. And now you find this picture, with no explanation given to you at all. That's a violation of what you'd agreed upon in the past, yes? (If its not, there's part of your problem...the two of you need to sit down and agree on what's acceptable and not acceptable...and you need to make darned sure that what you agree to IS what you're willing to accept or not). From here, you should point blank tell her that you know she's been taking pics again (don't say anything about sending, just say it like I said it). Tell her that you're not cool with this...period. Tell her that it ends...now. Today. No more taking pics. No chatting with guys in ANY kind of flirtatious, risque fashion. Everything she does online needs to be out in the open. Nothing that she wouldn't do in front of you. Tell her that she needs to do this in order to rebuild your trust in her (which is still damaged by what she did before. And then keep an eye on things. Install a keylogger, make sure that her antivirus stuff is updated and that it's not going to alarm on the keylogger. If she violates this...then immediately remove the internet from your home, completely and without warning. AND...insist that she go to marriage counseling with you. Don't ask...tell. If she refuses...you have your answers. You know that she's not going to change...ever. THEN you decide if you divorce, or ask her to start chatting girls with you as well.
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