Montclair0011 Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Have any of you seen the move "It's Complicated" which is the fairy tale version of this topic. It has a happy ending because the wife realizes the husband is not marriage material and she allows herself to be open to guy who will treat her well.
nadiaj2727 Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 This scenario reminds me of the movie "It's Complicated" with Alec Baldwin and Meryl Streep. In the movie Meryl has been divorced for 15 years from her husband, who left her for a much younger woman. They have teenage and adult-aged children together so they stay on amicable terms. But all of a sudden Alec has another mid-life crisis, or his true colors come out again, or whatever, and... guess what... he's unhappy with his relationship with wife # 2, former OW, who turns out to be not his princess charming but a regular person (and quite a b*&^y one at that). (Surprise surprise to all of this right). Well one thing leads to another and Meryl and Alec are having an affair. When Meryl tells her friends about it, they feel a sense of vindication because they know how hurt she was when he did the same thing to her, and they hate his former OW/current wife. Meryl's like, "It feels so wrong, but then it feels so right." I thought that the movie did a really good job at realistically showing all the different emotions. You could see how Alec was a selfish pig who finally realized what he had given up, his family, chasing after the next best thing. You could see how Meryl was struggling because she had finally moved on and grown and she knew she had become a better person who didn't deserve him, but then she was also remembering all that they had had together and it felt like a mixture of revenge, closure, new excitement, power, sympathy all jumbled up together. You are really cheering for her to kick the loser to the curb but you can also understand her feelings. What I think makes her such an easy-to-emphathize character in the movie is that Meryl never pretends or argues that what she's doing is "right," which many OWs, myself in the past included, seem to do. It isn't destined fate, it isn't a match made in heaven, it is something she is doing that she knows isn't anything good and needs to stop, but she is trying to figure out why she is doing it and what it all means. She also realizes that her decision to be with him, and him to be with her, has nothing at all to do with the current wife (his former OW). She doesn't try to justify things by saying the current wife is a huge selfish b*&ch who isn't giving Alec what he needs. Even though this is actually true, ha ha (just like it's true that Alec is a selfish jerk who obviously isn't focusing on the current wife's needs, either -- they're two peas in a pod), she actually feels bad for doing the current wife wrong. That's where she's easy to empathesize with, because you can see how she'd think, "I got you back, bi&&h!" but then, as soon as she thinks that, you can see how she'd think, "Wait a minute, this is wrong, even if revenage temporarily feels sweet, and it's not doing ME any good either." So anyway I think that movie gives a good take on this question and I recommend it to the OP or anyone else really, it was a good movie.
nadiaj2727 Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 MontClare - ha ha, I posted my post before I had read everyone else's so I just noticed you had referred to the same movie in the post before mine. And now that I've read most of the other posts... HereNow - I agree. It is natural to always love the person you married, and always be sad if that person left you, even if you have truly moved on and know you are better off without him. If you really love someone and commit your whole life to them, then that is something that I assume never ever goes away. I'm not saying it justifies an affair and hopefully one would be strong enough and healed enough to realize that that would just hurt everyone involve, herself included. But I'm just saying I totally understand how that would feel--just thinking about it makes me sad--and I hope that when I get married, the love that I have for my husband is burned into my heart and soul for the rest of my life and nothing could ever make it go away, not even if he left me for another woman. I would move on, I would be okay, but damn that would hurt for life, I hope, or else what kind of love would it have been to being with?! I feel like the stronger the love, the stronger the hurt. I agree with those who have said this doesn't mean the wife was clinging. To me it would show that the husband was the one clinging to the ex wife in his heart and head, or else why come back to her. (And I'm probably thinking all of this having just watched It's Complicated... in that movie Meryl is not a sad clingy ex-wife at all. She is ten times the person her ex husband is. But the fact remains that she loved him so much that she chose him to marry and to be the father of her children, and he left her for another woman, so yeah, she is going to have that sadness there forever... to me that is sad in a very moving way, but not a "pathetic" way or anything... to me it is the restless, hapless man who is pathetic, for breaking his word not to just one woman but two, for loving no one but himself and for not ever valuing what he had. He came knocking to her, not the other way around at all, and yeah it's just a movie but these things do happen and they totally blow out of the water a theory that any affair between a man and his ex wive could only exist due to a clinging ex wife who has never moved on. And someone... can't find the post again now... mentioned the situation being poetic justice. I get what you mean but from my previous experience and from reading on this board I've realized that affairs usually hurt everyone all around, so yeah at the time it probably temporarily feels like poetic justice, but they're probably going to wind up hurt and regretful.
pureinheart Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 If the ex-wife was sleeping with the ex-husband while he was still married to the xOW/current wife. If you look at life only in black and white ( where are the absolutists? ) then there is no question about it it is wrong. She is what they call, accessory to the destruction of a person, if not a family. If you believe that much of life is a mixture of this color and that color or gray, well, I say, it's poetic justice ! You see it is evident( by the responses here) that no matter how some feel that in this story of affairs and such, they stand on a higher moral ground, secretly, there is a smug satisfaction that this is payback! hypocrisy, anyone? (((((Hey Tami))))), I'm not sure if this applies to your reply, as I'm totally stressed out and trying not to be...functioning in decapacitated manor...lol, but I was thinking (I know, this is getting scary now). If there be any nasty comments on this board, that IMO is a form to cause a payback-type mentality, meaning nasty remarks, judgmental remarks, no matter how well they are disguised (or not), are still in fact nasty and meant to payback in some form. It is said that it is hate/distaste for the "act", but it does reflect on the person it is being applied/said to, and can in fact be taken personal...when in fact it's not meant to be personal (most often), but a lashing out at the hurt the person has experienced. FTR, I quoted you because you had the word payback...and it fell in line with what I was thinking. I think you brought up a good point, because it was not until recently with exDM, that I got to see this "payback" thing in operation. It was a large part of his family dynamic.
pureinheart Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 MontClare - ha ha, I posted my post before I had read everyone else's so I just noticed you had referred to the same movie in the post before mine. And now that I've read most of the other posts... HereNow - I agree. It is natural to always love the person you married, and always be sad if that person left you, even if you have truly moved on and know you are better off without him. If you really love someone and commit your whole life to them, then that is something that I assume never ever goes away. I'm not saying it justifies an affair and hopefully one would be strong enough and healed enough to realize that that would just hurt everyone involve, herself included. But I'm just saying I totally understand how that would feel--just thinking about it makes me sad--and I hope that when I get married, the love that I have for my husband is burned into my heart and soul for the rest of my life and nothing could ever make it go away, not even if he left me for another woman. I would move on, I would be okay, but damn that would hurt for life, I hope, or else what kind of love would it have been to being with?! I feel like the stronger the love, the stronger the hurt. I agree with those who have said this doesn't mean the wife was clinging. To me it would show that the husband was the one clinging to the ex wife in his heart and head, or else why come back to her. (And I'm probably thinking all of this having just watched It's Complicated... in that movie Meryl is not a sad clingy ex-wife at all. She is ten times the person her ex husband is. But the fact remains that she loved him so much that she chose him to marry and to be the father of her children, and he left her for another woman, so yeah, she is going to have that sadness there forever... to me that is sad in a very moving way, but not a "pathetic" way or anything... to me it is the restless, hapless man who is pathetic, for breaking his word not to just one woman but two, for loving no one but himself and for not ever valuing what he had. He came knocking to her, not the other way around at all, and yeah it's just a movie but these things do happen and they totally blow out of the water a theory that any affair between a man and his ex wive could only exist due to a clinging ex wife who has never moved on. And someone... can't find the post again now... mentioned the situation being poetic justice. I get what you mean but from my previous experience and from reading on this board I've realized that affairs usually hurt everyone all around, so yeah at the time it probably temporarily feels like poetic justice, but they're probably going to wind up hurt and regretful. Wow...I'm gonna have to see that movie! Excellent topic OP...this has sparked (again no pun intended Spark1111) much thought. Actually I don't see any of us women (no matter what side of the fence), or men as pathetic or anything in that nature. I don't agree with harrassment from any side. I see, for the mostpart, a group of extremely intelligent people, from all walks of life working out difficulties, the best they know how at the time. Thanks for the heads up on that movie BTW, haven't gotten out much lately and have been extremely depressed, although this will change on Monday.
NoIDidn't Posted April 17, 2010 Posted April 17, 2010 HereNow - I agree. It is natural to always love the person you married, and always be sad if that person left you, even if you have truly moved on and know you are better off without him. If you really love someone and commit your whole life to them, then that is something that I assume never ever goes away. I'm not saying it justifies an affair and hopefully one would be strong enough and healed enough to realize that that would just hurt everyone involve, herself included. But I'm just saying I totally understand how that would feel--just thinking about it makes me sad--and I hope that when I get married, the love that I have for my husband is burned into my heart and soul for the rest of my life and nothing could ever make it go away, not even if he left me for another woman. I would move on, I would be okay, but damn that would hurt for life, I hope, or else what kind of love would it have been to being with?! I feel like the stronger the love, the stronger the hurt. I agree with those who have said this doesn't mean the wife was clinging. To me it would show that the husband was the one clinging to the ex wife in his heart and head, or else why come back to her. (And I'm probably thinking all of this having just watched It's Complicated... in that movie Meryl is not a sad clingy ex-wife at all. She is ten times the person her ex husband is. But the fact remains that she loved him so much that she chose him to marry and to be the father of her children, and he left her for another woman, so yeah, she is going to have that sadness there forever... to me that is sad in a very moving way, but not a "pathetic" way or anything... to me it is the restless, hapless man who is pathetic, for breaking his word not to just one woman but two, for loving no one but himself and for not ever valuing what he had. He came knocking to her, not the other way around at all, and yeah it's just a movie but these things do happen and they totally blow out of the water a theory that any affair between a man and his ex wive could only exist due to a clinging ex wife who has never moved on. Quoted for truth. Funny how the very same people decrying anyone for using "black and white thinking" can only see a former BW as "pathetic", "sad", or "clingy". So the woman took the man back even though he cheated on his 2nd wife to do so. ***** happens. Poetic justice. Bump in the road. Yeah, all that. 1
silktricks Posted April 18, 2010 Posted April 18, 2010 I didn't say she was "at fault" (both OWs are as culpable morally as each other). I said she was "sadder". I do think it's sad to be clinging to love, when love ain't lovin' you back... (and how many OWs aren't told to forget him when he dumps them on DDay, because "he'd be with you if he really wanted you?") He dumped her, but she clung. I think that's sad. So maybe her persistent clinging wore him down in the end. Doesn't make it any less sad, IMO. You sure are making some broad assumptions. You don't know she clung. Maybe she went happily on with her life, and some years later he came after her. All you KNOW from the story as told is that they cheated on his 2nd wife together and eventually remarried. To the OP. IMO the two women are equal. 1
John Who Posted April 19, 2010 Posted April 19, 2010 I agree it does not mean the XW was clingy at all. Like in my case Im still in love with my XW,SHE is the one who keeps her distance from me,but I can love her and still go on with my life because I have to,just as Im sure these two people did. If she ever gave me the chance to go back with her I'd jump on that in a second. Bottom line the grass is not always greener on the other side,I should know after W divorced me I moved in with OW relationship was good,but my heart was with my XW,you know in situations like this we always assume it's the XBW that is clingy and waits around for her XH to come back,and I think some people want to assume this because they don't want to think that their MM now turned H/BF have these feelings still for XW. 1
White Flower Posted April 19, 2010 Posted April 19, 2010 MontClare - ha ha, I posted my post before I had read everyone else's so I just noticed you had referred to the same movie in the post before mine. And now that I've read most of the other posts... HereNow - I agree. It is natural to always love the person you married, and always be sad if that person left you, even if you have truly moved on and know you are better off without him. If you really love someone and commit your whole life to them, then that is something that I assume never ever goes away. I'm not saying it justifies an affair and hopefully one would be strong enough and healed enough to realize that that would just hurt everyone involve, herself included. But I'm just saying I totally understand how that would feel--just thinking about it makes me sad--and I hope that when I get married, the love that I have for my husband is burned into my heart and soul for the rest of my life and nothing could ever make it go away, not even if he left me for another woman. I would move on, I would be okay, but damn that would hurt for life, I hope, or else what kind of love would it have been to being with?! I feel like the stronger the love, the stronger the hurt. I agree with those who have said this doesn't mean the wife was clinging. To me it would show that the husband was the one clinging to the ex wife in his heart and head, or else why come back to her. (And I'm probably thinking all of this having just watched It's Complicated... in that movie Meryl is not a sad clingy ex-wife at all. She is ten times the person her ex husband is. But the fact remains that she loved him so much that she chose him to marry and to be the father of her children, and he left her for another woman, so yeah, she is going to have that sadness there forever... to me that is sad in a very moving way, but not a "pathetic" way or anything... to me it is the restless, hapless man who is pathetic, for breaking his word not to just one woman but two, for loving no one but himself and for not ever valuing what he had. He came knocking to her, not the other way around at all, and yeah it's just a movie but these things do happen and they totally blow out of the water a theory that any affair between a man and his ex wive could only exist due to a clinging ex wife who has never moved on. And someone... can't find the post again now... mentioned the situation being poetic justice. I get what you mean but from my previous experience and from reading on this board I've realized that affairs usually hurt everyone all around, so yeah at the time it probably temporarily feels like poetic justice, but they're probably going to wind up hurt and regretful. Nadia I just wanted to say that while we can love our spouses to the point of having them burned into our heart and soul it isn't neccessarily 'natural to always love the person you married'. I loved my exH dearly. I loved hard and strong and I would even say I burned the love into my heart and soul. I even felt that I always loved him more than he loved me and that never bothered me...not until it began to wither away, that is, his love for me. What I think is natural is once love is not reciprocated it eventually dies out. I honestly feel that my exH didn't love me for the last 5 years or so of the M even if he didn't admit that to himself. It didn't have to be stated because it was demonstrated. My point is, we may hope that it is natural to love someone forever, but we cannot promise it nor expect it from our spouse even if it is promised on the wedding day. Time changes things and nature changes too. It is idealistic to think otherwise. I did love my husband and committed my whole life to him. But when his love fizzled and our M subsequetnly fizzled, my love for him also died. Of course, it took YEARS for me to finally give up. But I couldn't make the R survive on my love alone. That is just clingyness. I think THAT is why many OW/OP can accept an A. To them LOVE is more powerful than a M contract. As long as the love is alive on both sides, the R is alive. If MM did not reciprocate my love to my level, I'm sure my love for him would fizzle too. I just don't need a R where I am the only one doing the loving, it doesn't work for me. And I don't need a M contract to force him to stay with me. The reason why THIS R worked in the end as well as in the movie is because deep down both parties felt that love for each other. It was reciprocated and it worked for them.
OWoman Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 It is natural to always love the person you married, and always be sad if that person left you, even if you have truly moved on and know you are better off without him. If you really love someone and commit your whole life to them, then that is something that I assume never ever goes away. This is very naive! For a start, it assumes that only people who love each other (deeply, or at all) get married - which is plainly not the case. Also, it assumes that people don't change, that love never dies, and that the first marriage is always the One True Love / soulmate - again, all of which are contestable. Do I still love my 1st H? Does my 1st H still love his 1st W? Does my current H still love his 1st W? :lmao: Does my father still love my mother? :lmao: Are all the thousands of members of "I hate my psycho x" groups on Facebook really just pretending? And all the people on LS who post about their toxic Xs?
OWoman Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 I would hope so... but sometimes it just morphs into obsession!
crazycatlady Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 I think if both sides leave before there is bitter resentment it is entirely possible for love to be rekindled later on down the road. If things had gone differently between H and I over his affair, I could see us in that senerio in 20 years. The problem is, most people don't leave before they are bitter. Bitter doesn't seem to fade. CCL
stillafool Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 I have a question about what others think about this situation. It's 1979: A man cheats on his W, they have 2 teenage children. The W is absolutely devastated when he leaves her, gets divorced and marries the OW. Years later he cheats on his 2nd W (who was the OW) with his exW. Eventually they get back together and even more years later are still living happily ever after. This family saga has spanned more than 30 years now! The man's elderly mother (now dead) always maintained that he would always be married in the eyes of God to his 1st wife. Is the 1st W as morally culpable as any other OW or is it somehow OK or at least morally more understandable? Morally culpable, I don't know. Crazy as hell for wanting him back - definitely!
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