Question about exW becoming OW

[Bootsie]

I have a question about what others think about this situation.

 

It's 1979: A man cheats on his W, they have 2 teenage children.

 

The W is absolutely devastated when he leaves her, gets divorced and marries the OW.

 

Years later he cheats on his 2nd W (who was the OW) with his exW. Eventually they get back together and even more years later are still living happily ever after. This family saga has spanned more than 30 years now!

 

The man's elderly mother (now dead) always maintained that he would always be married in the eyes of God to his 1st wife.

 

Is the 1st W as morally culpable as any other OW or is it somehow OK or at least morally more understandable?

[Ella whispers]

I think she is as morally culpable.

[her_halo_slipped]

Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we aim to deceive! (Sorry if I have quote slightly awry) but you get my meaning.

Forget the morals of the wife...where are HIS morals...lol.

[OWoman]

I have a question about what others think about this situation.

 

It's 1979: A man cheats on his W, they have 2 teenage children.

 

The W is absolutely devastated when he leaves her, gets divorced and marries the OW.

 

Years later he cheats on his 2nd W (who was the OW) with his exW. Eventually they get back together and even more years later are still living happily ever after. This family saga has spanned more than 30 years now!

 

The man's elderly mother (now dead) always maintained that he would always be married in the eyes of God to his 1st wife.

 

Is the 1st W as morally culpable as any other OW or is it somehow OK or at least morally more understandable?

 

She's "as morally culpable" as the other OW, but a whole bunch sadder, since she clearly was never able to let go and move on.

 

The MM, whose confusion and indecision enriched lawyers but messed so many other people's lives around, is the saddest of the lot! He could have used some IC to sort out what he really wanted in the first place.

[OWoman]

Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we aim to deceive! (Sorry if I have quote slightly awry) but you get my meaning.

 

I think it's "practise to deceive", if you're referring to the Walter Scott poem?

[bentnotbroken]

She's "as morally culpable" as the other OW, but a whole bunch sadder, since she clearly was never able to let go and move on.

 

The MM, whose confusion and indecision enriched lawyers but messed so many other people's lives around, is the saddest of the lot! He could have used some IC to sort out what he really wanted in the first place.

 

 

I agree she is as culpable, but I disagree that it is sadder for her. My heart says this is so wrong, my flesh says payback is a b!tch. The piece of crap called the man wouldn't be worth my time.

[2sure]

This is a fine example of a cake eater narcissist who no matter what, no matter how long, just cannot conceive of not having it both ways or at least his way. All about him.

 

As to who is more culpable?? Both women to themselves. The original OW as the 2nd wife - for being surprised her H cheated , and the original wife as the second OW for being willing to wait decades for someone who threw her away.

 

I guess another way of looking at it could be that the original marriage, which the MM betrayed....was always his primary relationship, he just figured when things got easier (the chikdren grown, the mortgage paid, whatever) he would go back to his life's companion.

 

What a freaking mess.

[BB07]

An OW is an OW.........no way to slice it, dice it or cut it any other way.

[herenow]

Maybe the BW didn't "let go and move on" because she never stopped loving her husband. Since they were married at one time. IMO, it's perfectly OK for her to still feel like he is the man she wants to be married to.

 

He left her and she was devastated. Why? Because she loves him. No, I don't think the wife did anything wrong. All she did was love her H and forgive him when he came back to her. There are many stories about men who leave for the OW and then realize the grass isn't greener.

 

Since they are "living happier ever after", maybe it just took him some time to realize that his wife was the woman he really wanted to be with. How is the BW at fault for that?

[OWoman]

Maybe the BW didn't "let go and move on" because she never stopped loving her husband. Since they were married at one time. IMO, it's perfectly OK for her to still feel like he is the man she wants to be married to.

 

He left her and she was devastated. Why? Because she loves him. No, I don't think the wife did anything wrong. All she did was love her H and forgive him when he came back to her. There are many stories about men who leave for the OW and then realize the grass isn't greener.

 

Since they are "living happier ever after", maybe it just took him some time to realize that his wife was the woman he really wanted to be with. How is the BW at fault for that?

 

I didn't say she was "at fault" (both OWs are as culpable morally as each other). I said she was "sadder". I do think it's sad to be clinging to love, when love ain't lovin' you back... (and how many OWs aren't told to forget him when he dumps them on DDay, because "he'd be with you if he really wanted you?") He dumped her, but she clung. I think that's sad.

 

So maybe her persistent clinging wore him down in the end. Doesn't make it any less sad, IMO.

[Snowflower]

Maybe the BW didn't "let go and move on" because she never stopped loving her husband. Since they were married at one time. IMO, it's perfectly OK for her to still feel like he is the man she wants to be married to.

 

He left her and she was devastated. Why? Because she loves him. No, I don't think the wife did anything wrong. All she did was love her H and forgive him when he came back to her. There are many stories about men who leave for the OW and then realize the grass isn't greener.

 

Since they are "living happier ever after", maybe it just took him some time to realize that his wife was the woman he really wanted to be with. How is the BW at fault for that?

 

Why is it so wrong for the BW to forgive? Obviously the couple wanted to be together and eventually they were. Isn't this a case of 'the heart wants what the heart wants' that we read about so much here?

 

Almost this exact scenario happened in my mother's family. It was really kind of sweet. My mother's uncle had an affair and he and his wife divorced. This was probably back in the 1950s. My mom said that their children, her cousins, lived with my mom's family for awhile during all the turmoil during the divorce. The now-divorced couple stayed amicable and good parents together. My uncle married his AP. I'm not sure what all happened in the ensuing years but my aunt and uncle remarried again, some 20 years later. They remained happily remarried for another 20 years until death.

 

This scenario is not at all uncommon. Lots of people have had some variation of this scenario after an affair and divorce.

[Heather1]

I met an interesting woman that this happened to....she was the OW. He left his W for her, they had 2 kids & were together 20 yrs, then he left her for his xW. The interesting thing about it was how she moved on. She now runs lodging & tours in Luxor & Cairo w/ her adult children & they're from Ireland. Maybe men need 2 women? She says they're still best friends.

But yeah, if he'll cheat in the first place I think he'll continue no matter who it's with. I can't figure out if W are the same way?? We're wired a little different.

[herenow]

I didn't say she was "at fault" (both OWs are as culpable morally as each other). I said she was "sadder". I do think it's sad to be clinging to love, when love ain't lovin' you back... (and how many OWs aren't told to forget him when he dumps them on DDay, because "he'd be with you if he really wanted you?") He dumped her, but she clung. I think that's sad.

 

So maybe her persistent clinging wore him down in the end. Doesn't make it any less sad, IMO.

 

You are assuming a lot. How do you know it wasn't an ultimatum or threats from the OW that made him marry her? You have no idea how that went down and neither do I. Maybe the BW didn't cling and her exH begged her to take him back. Again we don't know.

 

All we know is that they are back together and happy. You can't help who you fall in love with right? Well, seems like they both realized that they love each other and now they are together.

 

The fact that he married the OW obviously had no impact on the love he had for his first wife. And, the fact that he married the OW had no impact on the BW's love for her H. Maybe they both matured and are able to be more committed to each other. Again, you are assuming the BW clung to the MM when it could be the other way around.

 

In reality, I can't imagine that the BW felt she was doing anything wrong morally by loving the man she married.

 

Now, I usually don't judge, but this thread is asking for a judgement of sorts. I do not think the OW and BW are equally culpable. Both are culpable to a point. IMO, the BW should have waited for the MM to divorce his second wife before letting him back into her life, but I really don't think she crossed as far over the moral line as the original OW. JMO. Not equal at all.

Edited April 15, 2010 by herenow

[Snowflower]

I didn't say she was "at fault" (both OWs are as culpable morally as each other). I said she was "sadder". I do think it's sad to be clinging to love, when love ain't lovin' you back... (and how many OWs aren't told to forget him when he dumps them on DDay, because "he'd be with you if he really wanted you?") He dumped her, but she clung. I think that's sad.

 

So maybe her persistent clinging wore him down in the end. Doesn't make it any less sad, IMO.

 

OWoman, I love your posts a lot of the time. They present a realistic, different perspective on relationships and marriages. Some of your posts have helped me (as a fBS) understand the thoughts of an AP a lot better. But I can't agree here.

 

We don't know what happened in the ensuing years for the BW. She may have found love again with someone else, who knows? The couple here might have remained friends.

 

And as for clinging, if that was what she was doing (I don't think so) how many OWs cling for a long time, years sometimes, in hopes that their MM will eventually be with them? This is really no different.

 

Or the case of an affair where the APs were romantically linked earlier in life and then went on to marry other people, but then were reunited and began an affair. Were they clinging in hopes of being reunited? There was probably a 'dumpee' and a 'dumper' in those early relationships as well.

 

I guess this was another case of 'true love conquers all.'

[herenow]

I missed the religious aspect of this post. The fact that "in the eyes" of a family member, the first marriage is the only real one. This puts a whole different spin on the situation. If a person viewed life that way, then the BW wouldn't be culpable at all. The OW (and the MM) would be sinners and the BW would be the only moral one in the bunch. Not that I necessarily agree with that, but religious beliefs are not mine to argue.

[jwi71]

Isn't this a movie?

 

What, is it a full moon or something this week?

[Bootsie]

Thank you everyone.

 

There were a few assumptions made, some of which were right off.

 

The 1st wife was very sad for a while but developed her own life. There was no persistent clinging but I am sure the 1st wife still had feelings. I am equally sure the man still had feelings too. They had been together since they were at school prior to this.

 

The man and his 2nd wife lived in another country for much of this time, and eventually moved back here to another State over a thousand miles away.

 

The religious view was actually from the man's mother and while she said it often; I'm not so sure than the man or the 1st wife were equally convinced, especially as they are not religious themselves.

 

The teenage children grew up, married had children of their own. They had virtually no contact with their father during the time he was with his 2nd wife. One of the children also lived in another country for most of this time, and the other was angry (actually they both were) at the father for leaving them and wanted nothing much to do with him. When the couple got back together major efforts were successfully made to reconcile all the parties.

 

Everyone seems very happy now; I'm convinced of it. Nobody is pathetically clinging to the past.

 

My take is that the man hurt everyone involved; both his wives and his children and he will have to carry that always. He seem grateful (but not pathetically so) that he has been forgiven and so he should be.

 

The situation of the 1st wife is what puzzles me. Is her situation that of a normal OW or not?

 

I thank you for the differing perspectives.

 

PS - These people are not me but they are people I'm very close to. Further cheating in the family (not him again) has caused me to wonder about it.

[pureinheart]

Maybe the BW didn't "let go and move on" because she never stopped loving her husband. Since they were married at one time. IMO, it's perfectly OK for her to still feel like he is the man she wants to be married to.

 

He left her and she was devastated. Why? Because she loves him. No, I don't think the wife did anything wrong. All she did was love her H and forgive him when he came back to her. There are many stories about men who leave for the OW and then realize the grass isn't greener.

 

Since they are "living happier ever after", maybe it just took him some time to realize that his wife was the woman he really wanted to be with. How is the BW at fault for that?

 

I can totally understand also HN...this in a round about way could have been my life...my children have different fathers because they chose to be with other people, not for life, but for a night. I was unable to deal with it.

 

Both their fathers have since moved on, although have carried a torch maybe, it's what they said anyway....and one of them D'ed and was trying to get things going again...the other used to tell my son how much he missed me and regretted how things went down.

 

Also, the OP did not mention what the BW did with her years without her exH....

 

What did she do with their time apart?

[pureinheart]

Isn't this a movie?

 

What, is it a full moon or something this week?

 

It hasn't gotten dark at my place yet, and I'm too lazy to go outside and check...even to check the internet. It feels like a full moon though.

[pureinheart]

Thank you everyone.

 

There were a few assumptions made, some of which were right off.

 

The 1st wife was very sad for a while but developed her own life. There was no persistent clinging but I am sure the 1st wife still had feelings. I am equally sure the man still had feelings too. They had been together since they were at school prior to this.

 

The man and his 2nd wife lived in another country for much of this time, and eventually moved back here to another State over a thousand miles away.

 

The religious view was actually from the man's mother and while she said it often; I'm not so sure than the man or the 1st wife were equally convinced, especially as they are not religious themselves.

 

The teenage children grew up, married had children of their own. They had virtually no contact with their father during the time he was with his 2nd wife. One of the children also lived in another country for most of this time, and the other was angry (actually they both were) at the father for leaving them and wanted nothing much to do with him. When the couple got back together major efforts were successfully made to reconcile all the parties.

 

Everyone seems very happy now; I'm convinced of it. Nobody is pathetically clinging to the past.

 

My take is that the man hurt everyone involved; both his wives and his children and he will have to carry that always. He seem grateful (but not pathetically so) that he has been forgiven and so he should be.

 

The situation of the 1st wife is what puzzles me. Is her situation that of a normal OW or not?

 

I thank you for the differing perspectives.

 

PS - These people are not me but they are people I'm very close to. Further cheating in the family (not him again) has caused me to wonder about it.

 

I can totally understand also HN...this in a round about way could have been my life...my children have different fathers because they chose to be with other people, not for life, but for a night. I was unable to deal with it.

 

Both their fathers have since moved on, although have carried a torch maybe, it's what they said anyway....and one of them D'ed and was trying to get things going again...the other used to tell my son how much he missed me and regretted how things went down.

 

Also, the OP did not mention what the BW did with her years without her exH....

 

What did she do with their time apart?

 

OK....didn't think she sat around waiting...us women have 9 lives!

 

You beat me to the keyboard Bootsie....also went back and read the replies...looks like Snowflower and me had the same thoughts....

[White Flower]

OWoman, I love your posts a lot of the time. They present a realistic, different perspective on relationships and marriages. Some of your posts have helped me (as a fBS) understand the thoughts of an AP a lot better. But I can't agree here.

 

We don't know what happened in the ensuing years for the BW. She may have found love again with someone else, who knows? The couple here might have remained friends.

 

And as for clinging, if that was what she was doing (I don't think so) how many OWs cling for a long time, years sometimes, in hopes that their MM will eventually be with them? This is really no different.

 

Or the case of an affair where the APs were romantically linked earlier in life and then went on to marry other people, but then were reunited and began an affair. Were they clinging in hopes of being reunited? There was probably a 'dumpee' and a 'dumper' in those early relationships as well.

 

I guess this was another case of 'true love conquers all.'

Your post makes me wonder if BS (or anyone for that matter) think it is morally acceptable to be the OP if and only if the WS returns as a newly MP? Which then begs the question, is first time marriage the only valuable or valid marriage?

 

I don't think I'm threadjacking, but if so I apologize. I only hope to add to an interesting thread.

[Bootsie]

I should have said the couple are in their late 70s now. They first met about 60 years ago and their wedding day was more than 50 years ago.

 

The man's 2nd wedding was about 30 years ago. His divorce from the 2nd wife came through about 18 years ago but he had already been back with his 1st wife for a couple of years. They never formally re-married but they still share the same surname, and their children were born while they were legally married. Many people who know them don't realise that they are not legally married. It is as though the years apart never happened.

 

I find it hard to blame the 1st wife in this situation even though logically it seems she has been an OW too.

 

I wonder if there are more than a few BWs who would have no hesitation in taking up with their former husbands again if he had left to be with an OW and was still with that same OW (assuming the BW was even still interested).

[PhillySpecial]

So my exMM left his W for me and moved into my home. He then began cheating on me with his W. When W and I finally sat down and spoke about everything she told me that he'd slept with her once while he was living with me and would sneak and call her (like when I'd be in the kitchen cooking, he'd be in the bathroom sneaking and talking to her LOL). He got off on cheating, didn't care who it was with. He was just a cheater. Now he's back with W and calls me trying to be with me again but I totally cut him off. NC for 5 years, recently blocked his number when the harrassment and frequency of calls escalated again. It's up to the W and OW to finally decide enough is enough in these situations. I just had enough and decided I love myself too much to tolerate the back and forth drama any longer. So I'm no longer an option for the MM and I'm sure it's killing him that I've moved on. Knowing that feels great .

[tami-chan]

 

Is her situation that of a normal OW or not?

 

If the ex-wife was sleeping with the ex-husband while he was still married to the xOW/current wife. If you look at life only in black and white ( where are the absolutists? ) then there is no question about it it is wrong. She is what they call, accessory to the destruction of a person, if not a family.

 

If you believe that much of life is a mixture of this color and that color or gray, well, I say, it's poetic justice !

 

You see it is evident( by the responses here) that no matter how some feel that in this story of affairs and such, they stand on a higher moral ground, secretly, there is a smug satisfaction that this is payback! hypocrisy, anyone?

[Chrome Barracuda]

if there is some spark between a man and a woman thats his ex. if the opportunity presents itself, things will happen, its 50-50.