Men, porn and masturbating

[Jersey Shortie]

Case in point. My ex and I were together for 4.5 yrs. She started witholding sex about two years in, with the typical excuses, because she thought I was hers and no more work was necessary on her behalf. I got frustrated. I argued, I brought my problems up, she said she would work on it, no progress was ever made, I made changes, but to no avail. My response? Watch porn.

 

That is a valid compliant about relationships and I never denied it. But I don't think it negates my arguments or means that porn is healthy and right to view. And I certainly don't think the only reason any man ever watches porn is because his gf isn't making him happy. Men watch it all the time for millions of other reasons, even when they have women that give them sex.

 

Porn is a product of disatisfaction which leads to visual fantasy because the said man is not being fulfilled in a way he deems fit.

 

Totally agree with that. That's why it can be very discouraging. What I find is true for most guys today is that they use real sex and porn interchagably. There isn't much sexual fidelity anymore and porn is a great outlet for men to pretend to be with women they can't get while they settle for their very normal girlfriend. Oh but that's right ladies, be happy that he is settling for your normalness while he dreams of hot girls he can do in porn.

 

Remember, HE deems fit. You don't get to say how much is required to satisfy your man, it's individualised to each person and each man's sex drive to determine his adequate amount of sexual arousal and activity.

 

Of course, it only matters what the man deems fit. What if the woman meets his needs *most* of the time, can he forgo porn the other? I find most men can't because the instant they feel something, they tell us they *need* to act on it.

 

Sure, guys may start watching porn at a young age, and this may influence them in the future in the arena of sexual desire, but young women are influenced all the same in a more insidious manner which leads to self flaggellation, eating disorders, self destructive patterns, self loathing, the list goes on and on. You can't deny that those factors also don't contribute to sexual despair in the future. Women who are insecure tend to have less active, healthy sex lives, which in turn leads to unhappy SO's, which in turn leads to porn watching.

 

Absolutely women are influenced negatively! And the things men buy into are the thigns women are influenced negatively by. So add in all those points you pointed out how women can be affected, and add in seeing their man view and buy into the same media she is trying to fight against and don't sit there and tell me it dosen't send a crappy message.

 

 

When a man is denied sexual satisfaction, he will find it, one way or another, 99% of the time being pornography.

 

This is exactly part of the problem. Men deem their seuxal satisfaction as important above all else. Not once in your thread did you even make mention of women's needs.

 

 

Young guys watch it out of curiosity, the taboo nature of the subject, and of course sexual release, as hormones are going crazy, driving them to desire something they cannot have.

 

All that is true but it doesn't change the fact that their viewing of porn will have an affect on how they view women and sex. And that these young gusy grow up to be grown men that hold onto those views sadly enough.

[phineas]

Just because *you* haven't seen me answer it doesn't mean I haven't. I get asked this regularly and have answered it many times before.

 

I am not really sure what amatuer porn is though to be honest but from my understanding, all porn is made by real people and can be freee on the interenet so I don't see why this should be any different or change my views.

 

 

 

 

LOL. What does this have to do with anything? The fact remains, young boys in formative years are viewing material that isn't too kind towards women. And thsoe young boys grown into adult men.

 

 

Why don't you just admit you hate porn period.

stop trying to justify your hate with lame arguments that make no sense.

[silic0ntoad]

That is a valid compliant about relationships and I never denied it. But I don't think it negates my arguments or means that porn is healthy and right to view. And I certainly don't think the only reason any man ever watches porn is because his gf isn't making him happy. Men watch it all the time for millions of other reasons, even when they have women that give them sex.

 

So rather, I should be out pandering and banging other girls? Then I'd really be crucified. It hasn't impacted my sex life, I don't view women as recepticles, and I certainly don't degrade women in the manner seen in pornography. So that argument is null.

 

 

 

Totally agree with that. That's why it can be very discouraging. What I find is true for most guys today is that they use real sex and porn interchagably. There isn't much sexual fidelity anymore and porn is a great outlet for men to pretend to be with women they can't get while they settle for their very normal girlfriend. Oh but that's right ladies, be happy that he is settling for your normalness while he dreams of hot girls he can do in porn.

 

Since when has porn been a substitute for a real live vagina? I'm sorry, but you can ask just about every man and he'd rather be humping some girl's brains out then watching someone else do what he wants to do. And on the point of plain jane gf's, I disagree. I think it takes attraction to be with someone and enjoy them; whenever I am sexually satisified all I want to do is be with her, not a porno I download on my laptop.

 

 

 

Of course, it only matters what the man deems fit. What if the woman meets his needs *most* of the time, can he forgo porn the other? I find most men can't because the instant they feel something, they tell us they *need* to act on it.

 

It absolutely only matters what he deems fit in this realm of argument. If you didn't have such a blatant, unhealthy hatred of pornography, then this wouldn't be an issue, would it? In this case, his porn viewing habits are directly connected to HIS needs, not yours, or any other girl. How selfish women can be in this case, it's amazing! If we were talking about how much he goes fishing, then his sexual demands wouldn't matter. But this is HIS area, HIS sexual satisfaction, and if the female isn't feeding that hunger, he will graze elsewhere, it's biology.

 

 

 

Absolutely women are influenced negatively! And the things men buy into are the thigns women are influenced negatively by. So add in all those points you pointed out how women can be affected, and add in seeing their man view and buy into the same media she is trying to fight against and don't sit there and tell me it dosen't send a crappy message.

 

If I recall correctly, women do most of this to themselves. Women are so much more tenacious with these matters then men. Cosmo magazine is a perfect example. It was designed by a man in the 1900's as a family oriented, family woman's magazine. In the 70's, Helen Grundy took it over and it is the disaster it is now because of her. She placed half naked models on the front cover, did articles pertaining to pleasing men, etc. So no, this doesn't tie into the pornography feed at all. They are two seperate areas of psychology that adversely effect one another. Men don't make you put your hair in some lame european flop; some douchebag in the hills does, not because he thinks you would look better, but because it makes their wallets fatter. Catch my drift?

 

 

 

This is exactly part of the problem. Men deem their seuxal satisfaction as important above all else. Not once in your thread did you even make mention of women's needs.

 

Why would I make mention of the woman's needs? Seriously? Are you honestly posing this question right now? This argument SPECIFICALLY deals with men's sexuality, which while women are included, does not mean they can't be mutually exclusive. If we want to talk about women's needs, let's do that. Women, by nature require a stronger emotional bond. Men require a stronger physical bond. When that bond is misinterpreted we have issues. Men require and in fact demand a healthy sex life. If a man doesn't demand a healthy sex life, he's a nice guy, and to be discarded. Which way do you want it? Women want an emotional connection. It's biology also. So in reality, if a woman isn't pleasing her man sexually, and in turn being pleased sexually as well, is it not fair to say she is not nurturing the bonds of the relationship and undermining her own success and desires?

 

 

 

 

All that is true but it doesn't change the fact that their viewing of porn will have an affect on how they view women and sex. And that these young gusy grow up to be grown men that hold onto those views sadly enough.

 

Where are the specific, empyrical, statistical studies that back up this claim? Where are the examples? I've provided some of my own, where are yours?

 

Because honestly, I am beginning to think a man (so you think) chose porn over you and you hate it for that reason, OR you were unlucky enough to actually deal with a guy who was actually addicted (And I mean addicted, since you like to throw that around casually) to pornography and it damaged you in some way.

[silic0ntoad]

Men watch it all the time for millions of other reasons, even when they have women that give them sex.

 

 

And I didn't even pick up on this little gem.

 

See what I mean? It's not a gift, right JS?

 

Well what do you call something you GIVE to another?

 

....a gift.

 

I always thought sex was an ACT to be shared between two people.... But I'm the porn addicted misogynist

Edited April 20, 2010 by silic0ntoad

[Mr White]

Just because *you* haven't seen me answer it doesn't mean I haven't. I get asked this regularly and have answered it many times before.

 

I am not really sure what amatuer porn is though to be honest but from my understanding, all porn is made by real people and can be freee on the interenet so I don't see why this should be any different or change my views.

 

 

 

 

LOL. What does this have to do with anything? The fact remains, young boys in formative years are viewing material that isn't too kind towards women. And thsoe young boys grown into adult men.

 

So lame :rolleyes:

 

Produced porn = all the fantasy scenarios that you like to bash on; produced by business enterprises, with paid actors

 

Amateur porn = couples filming themselves having sex and uploading it on the internet just for fun, with no money involved.

 

 

While you can question the first scenario all you want, who are you to tell people that they can't film what goes on in their bedroom, if they so wish?

Incidentally, amateur porn is one of the most popular genres of porn. in fact, so popular, that studios regularly produce porn that they try to make "look like" it is real amateur porn.

[ComeUndone]

That's fine, but if your SO was being completely satisfied by you, not only would he not be particularly interested in porn; he wouldn't be able to derive satisfaction from it. Physiologically speaking.

 

How do you figure this? You are telling me every single guy out there that looks at porn while in a relationship is not satisfied?? Unless of course you are speaking of times when a couple can't be together, as in my case with my current bf... he can't get the real thing every night because I'm not physically there.

 

I find it interesting that both your ex AND your current SO have what you believe to be excessive interest in porn. And you want to attribute that to all of mankind rather than to something about your own relationships.

 

When did I say my current bf has "excessive" interest? I believe I stated it was pretty normal. My ex had excessive, but had other issues as well.

 

You also didn't respond to an earlier question I asked you as to why you chose a quasi-pornographic avatar for yourself, e.g. "soft porn." Is that avatar a picture of yourself?

 

No, it's not me.

 

If so, believe me, your SO would have no interest whatsoever in porn because he'd be getting the "real deal."

 

What is that supposed to mean? That the avatar pic is sexy and if that were me he would definitely be satisfied? And appearance alone tells you she is satisfying IRL? No, of course not, but this statement coming from the mouth of one who steadfastly defends porn is very telling IMO. All based on an avatar picture.

 

If that picture is NOT yourself, why did you choose it? I think it's very hypocritical of you to be so anti-porn and yet choose an avatar like that.

 

I chose it because I like it. I also don't consider it to be soft-porn or jack-off material.

 

 

If your relationship is "amazing" then why are you complaining about it? You know, I find it interesting that you believe you know what your bf is thinking and would say. Have you ever told him you don't like him using porn, and resent him for it? And if so, what was his response?

 

I'm not complaining about my relationship.... go back and read my first post.

 

Unless he is voluntarily lying to me when HE talks about our sex life, unless he is faking his orgasms with me, I think it's fair to draw the conclusion that he is satisfied. If he is lying then he is missing an opportunity to figure out where we are falling short, but I have no control over someone else not speaking their mind.

 

We talk very candidly all the time - we don't fight and I don't nag him. Yes, we have had some very frank talks about porn... I have pointed out 1 issue with it that was sometimes impacting our sex life (having to do with his slow refractory period and his timing of when he masturbated), but aside from that I have not addressed any other negative feelings about it for reasons I have already stated. His porn use is not mine to control or complain about, especially when it's not negatively impacting me, and I don't feel like any man will stop watching it simply because his SO doesn't like it. They just get sneakier. I feel like my dislike of porn is my own insecurity in combination with my thoughts about the porn industry as a whole. He does not have the same opinion about it of course, so me being more open about it wont help my case at all... learning how to get over the occasional insecurity I feel about it will.

 

If your relationship is "amazing" then why would you associate his porn use negatively? Why wouldn't you associate his porn use with being able to sustain this "amazing" relationship you have? You've said he doesn't use porn to release his frustration. OK why does he use it?

 

The only time you ever masturbate is when you are "frustrated"... is that what you are telling me? Sorry but based on experience I just do not see this. Not all guys out there watching porn are doing so because their SO isn't having sex with them or isn't satisfying them. That's a crock.

 

 

If you can honestly say that you've never ever fantasized about another man (i.e. other than your SO) while masturbating, then you just might possibly have a theoretical point. But it would be the very rare woman who doesn't fantasize about all kinds of kinky things. Frequently those fantasies don't involve the SO.

 

Now it's time for you to tell the truth, before you continue to bash on men for indulging their sexual fantasies. Can you tell the truth, or do you just want to continue bashing others?

 

And how am I "bashing others"? You are basically calling me a liar on this board and yet I am "bashing"??

 

Sure I have fantasized. And so? A fantasy is not the same as watching porn btw. I stated my opinion about porn, not fantasies. Sorry if you don't agree but I do see some real issues out there with the porn that is being viewed by millions of men out there. Maybe my issue is more with the degradation to women -- the way women are portrayed as sex-hungry nymphos who will do anything he wants anytime he asks. Guys are getting off to women being gagged to the point of vomiting, women being screwed by several guys at a time in whatever orifice available, women being completely dominated (and I don't mean S&M but overpowered by the man)...whatever it is she is often "enjoying" every second of it.. she's paid big bucks to do that. I know it's not all men - women contribute their portion to the problem because without them and their greed & insecurities we would not have this issue.

 

There is just some sick porn out there. Some guys just come to subconsciously think of this as normal because it's what they see on they net... this is often what happens so don't deny it. That's one of my issues with it. The other is that many men get addicted to porn on some level and their lack of self-control eff's up their relationship. Contrary to what has been stated on this thread by one of the guys, sometimes porn becomes the issue first, and only then does the relationship and sex life suffer.

 

I just see porn as somewhat risky... yeah - it's a turn on and you can get off quick when you masturbate, but the rest are negatives. More negatives then positives IMO, thus the reason I sometimes feel insecure about it sometimes.

 

I guess if my SO thought she could dictate to ME whether or not I felt our relationship was or was not satisfactory, then yes I would probably not find that very satisfactory.

 

I like your twisting of my words.. very clever. I don't "dictate" any such thing, I speak based on feedback from him.

 

 

OK so now you're trying to use a little sophistry? "Visual" aids to fantasy are not OK. ACTUAL PHYSICAL penis substitutes ARE OK as an aid to fantasy?

 

So I guess although you are not OK with "visual" porn, you would be perfectly OK if your boyfriend masturbated via using a synthetic vagina or having sex with a love doll.

 

Are you serious with these questions? If he wants to use a synthetic vagina to masturbate, that's fine by me. His hand simulates penetration... what the hell is the difference? Since is hand simulates penetration when he masturbates then what's wrong with me using a dildo or vibrator?

[Jersey Shortie]

It hasn't impacted my sex life...

 

It's affected us all. 9 year olds even know what it is. It's impacted all our lives and I don't think it's for the better. Most men have been influenced by porn, especially if the guy has been veiwing it since his formative years.

 

I don't view women as receptacles, and I certainly don't degrade women in the manner seen in pornography. So that argument is null.

 

The argument is not null just because you don’t degrade women. And you admit that porn does degrade women. OH but that's right, who cares about that? Why should we care that women are depicted negatively or degraded? As long as you get your masturbation material it doesn't matter how women are treated or repersented.

 

 

Since when has porn been a substitute for a real live vagina?

 

Since men first saw a sexy picture.

 

 

I think it takes attraction to be with someone and enjoy them; whenever I am sexually satisified all I want to do is be with her, not a porno I download on my laptop.

 

Plenty of men want to be with both their partner AND use porn. Men don’t only use porn when they are bursting with frustration. On top of it, porn doesn't even treat women very nicely. But women are suppose to be all smiles and coos for their man that supports such a medium.

 

It absolutely only matters what he deems fit in this realm of argument

.

 

Clearly it doesn't because it's an issue for both genders and one we see time and time again. If two people are having sex, then it matters to both of them what they deem fit.

 

If you didn't have such a blatant, unhealthy hatred of pornography, then this wouldn't be an issue, would it?

 

If alot of men didn’t have a blatant, unhealthy love and dependency on porn, this wouldn’t be an issue, would it?

 

On that note, at least I don’t like something that doesn’t treat women very nicely. Which is more then alot of men can say. Why is it considered *healthy* to support a media industry built on making money off the people watching it and doesn't show women in a nice light ? That's healthy? You admit porn is degrading to women but hey..that's healthy right.

 

 

How selfish women can be in this case, it's amazing! If we were talking about how much he goes fishing, then his sexual demands wouldn't matter. But this is HIS area, HIS sexual satisfaction, and if the female isn't feeding that hunger, he will graze elsewhere, it's biology.

 

Funny thing biology, it's not just men that have it! Women have their own needs and wishes. But you care about male biology and male needs. You say women are selfish but ignore the fact that you want to focus everything on what men need and such.

 

 

If I recall correctly, women do most of this to themselves. Women are so much more tenacious with these matters then men.

 

Of course we are! It's not because men are *better*. It's because we are judged more harshly and we see the way our own guy oggles other women OR looks at media of women that are protrayed in a manner that is unrealistic but none-the-less, he eats it up. You men expect women to raise above the media messages but you men also buy right into it! It's laughable.

 

 

Men don't make you put your hair in some lame european flop; some douchebag in the hills does, not because he thinks you would look better, but because it makes their wallets fatter. Catch my drift

 

Does putting our hair in some lame european flop demean men or women? No. But I bet if the woman in question was putting her hair in pigtails you would be all over her conforming to that standard for your pleasure..oh by the way, how many sey costume and styles has porn sold to push women into acting and dressing more like the women in porn that their men enjoy watching?

 

The irony is that you talk about what makes other people’s wallets fatter. Well porn is all about making people wallets fatter. It's a product to be sold first and plenty of men are buying.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Here's an interesting thing I hadn't considered. I saw an article about 'porn for the blind' - a magazine designed in such a way that it has raised 'parts' that the person can actually touch so that they can 'see' the naked human form. There is a book out there as well, and I found a blog called 'Tactile Minds' which addresses the same.

 

I always thought of the liking of porn as being an offshoot of how visually stimulated men are and it just never occurred to me how someone who is blind or has been blind from birth would operate in world of visual sexual stimuli. Well... there are sites out there that 'describe' scenes in pornographic movies, books and magazines with 'raised pictures' to feel and so on. I found the idea pretty interesting that even without the benefit of vision, there still exists that same drive for variety, etc. I know the images in their minds are bound to be different than those of the sighted, and it would be pretty fascinating to know exactly what they are.

 

As for porn in general, I find the fake 'scripted/professional' stuff a turn off - it is, after all just acting and usually lame at that (unless it is something like Joone's Pirates - which, admittedly was entertaining even without the sex scenes - even Blockbuster carries a 'soft' version of it).

 

I prefer the amateur stuff, the sort where you see actual orgasms and a woman really enjoying herself (usually a hitachi magic wand is involved ). Some bondage/forced orgasm stuff - these women are glowing afterward, clearly pleased.

 

Give me a happy woman any day over a woman who is loudly pretending to be turned on sucking a bored half mast cock.

[silic0ntoad]

It's affected us all. 9 year olds even know what it is. It's impacted all our lives and I don't think it's for the better. Most men have been influenced by porn, especially if the guy has been veiwing it since his formative years.

 

 

 

The argument is not null just because you don’t degrade women. And you admit that porn does degrade women. OH but that's right, who cares about that? Why should we care that women are depicted negatively or degraded? As long as you get your masturbation material it doesn't matter how women are treated or repersented.

 

 

 

 

Since men first saw a sexy picture.

 

 

 

 

Plenty of men want to be with both their partner AND use porn. Men don’t only use porn when they are bursting with frustration. On top of it, porn doesn't even treat women very nicely. But women are suppose to be all smiles and coos for their man that supports such a medium.

 

.

 

Clearly it doesn't because it's an issue for both genders and one we see time and time again. If two people are having sex, then it matters to both of them what they deem fit.

 

 

 

If alot of men didn’t have a blatant, unhealthy love and dependency on porn, this wouldn’t be an issue, would it?

 

On that note, at least I don’t like something that doesn’t treat women very nicely. Which is more then alot of men can say. Why is it considered *healthy* to support a media industry built on making money off the people watching it and doesn't show women in a nice light ? That's healthy? You admit porn is degrading to women but hey..that's healthy right.

 

 

 

 

Funny thing biology, it's not just men that have it! Women have their own needs and wishes. But you care about male biology and male needs. You say women are selfish but ignore the fact that you want to focus everything on what men need and such.

 

 

 

 

Of course we are! It's not because men are *better*. It's because we are judged more harshly and we see the way our own guy oggles other women OR looks at media of women that are protrayed in a manner that is unrealistic but none-the-less, he eats it up. You men expect women to raise above the media messages but you men also buy right into it! It's laughable.

 

 

 

 

Does putting our hair in some lame european flop demean men or women? No. But I bet if the woman in question was putting her hair in pigtails you would be all over her conforming to that standard for your pleasure..oh by the way, how many sey costume and styles has porn sold to push women into acting and dressing more like the women in porn that their men enjoy watching?

 

The irony is that you talk about what makes other people’s wallets fatter. Well porn is all about making people wallets fatter. It's a product to be sold first and plenty of men are buying.

 

 

You skim over my argument, pick and choose, and then try to turn everything right back on itself? What is this, a nuremberg defense?

 

Porn has had ZERO impact on my sex life. YOU don't get to tell me it has, it's my life, my opinion, and my choices. Simply because your twisted logic has veiled your eyes so far as to admit no fault in a *****y sex life of your own doesn't mean you can point the finger of judgement and castrate every man that watches "degrading, whorish, disgusting pornography."

 

 

And no, in this realm of argument, this absolutely only has to do with the man in question. As I said before, HE deems what is fit for satisfaction. Not you. You don't get to "reward" him with sex when he does his good little dance to make you happy. That's preposterous, but, like you said yourself "MEn watch it even when they have plenty of women GIVING them sex." - Your own words from above.

 

So, JS, what is it? Are you simply a misandrist who hates porn? Or do you seek to relegate men to second best, instead of equals? Because I don't know any man who considers sleeping with someone giving them anything.

 

Get over yourself. Women aren't judged harshly by men, but by women. We don't look at you and say your outfit is ridiculous, your heels preposterous, your eyes aren't blue enough. Common fallacy, but I think MOST guys think a girl is hottest in sweats, hair in a pony tail, just out of bed.

 

Once you decide to actually read my entire argument, and dissect it, get back to me. Til then, I am simply not arguing this with someone as close minded and old fashioned as yourself. NEWSFLASH. Year? 2010.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm not turning aside your points of standing up for a woman. In fact, in my own experience, I have ALWAYS defended a girl I was with and stood up for her.

 

But as for evidence, it's also a proven fact that women DO withold sex once marriage starts, and it leads to disatisfaction.

 

Case in point. My ex and I were together for 4.5 yrs. She started witholding sex about two years in, with the typical excuses, because she thought I was hers and no more work was necessary on her behalf. I got frustrated. I argued, I brought my problems up, she said she would work on it, no progress was ever made, I made changes, but to no avail. My response? Watch porn.

 

Why did I watch porn? Not because I didn't desire my girlfriend of the time, or because I wanted things she couldn't give me, but things she WOULDN'T give me, for whatever reason.

 

Porn is a product of disatisfaction which leads to visual fantasy because the said man is not being fulfilled in a way he deems fit. Remember, HE deems fit. You don't get to say how much is required to satisfy your man, it's individualised to each person and each man's sex drive to determine his adequate amount of sexual arousal and activity.

 

Sure, guys may start watching porn at a young age, and this may influence them in the future in the arena of sexual desire, but young women are influenced all the same in a more insidious manner which leads to self flaggellation, eating disorders, self destructive patterns, self loathing, the list goes on and on. You can't deny that those factors also don't contribute to sexual despair in the future. Women who are insecure tend to have less active, healthy sex lives, which in turn leads to unhappy SO's, which in turn leads to porn watching.

 

When a man is denied sexual satisfaction, he will find it, one way or another, 99% of the time being pornography. Young guys watch it out of curiosity, the taboo nature of the subject, and of course sexual release, as hormones are going crazy, driving them to desire something they cannot have.

 

In my situation I find this a really offensive blanket statement. I NEVER withheld from my H. In fact, in the five years we have been together I only turned him down twice. Once shortly after the birth of our daughter and another time where I was literally falling asleep from being up over 24 hours. He withheld from ME. He is constantly rejecting sex with me in favor of watching porn. Is sex with me dull? Maybe but how would he know, he never spent more then 10 minutes at a shot in bed with me no matter how much I tried. He says lasting longer then that is too frustrating but he can look at porn for hours. He has NEVER tried anything to improve our sex life and has consistently refused any efforts on my part. Why should he? His outlet can be found on the next website, his satisfaction only a click away.

 

I have been more than willing (in fact almost demanding) to try new things do kinky things. My H isn't interested. He WANTS PORN. He says it is always new and fresh, but he won't try new and fresh things with me. Hw wants to see lesbians. I even offered at one point to bring that into our relationship. He said no. He doesn't want it in real life because is uncomfortable with it. He says this is "normal." He says he is "shy."

 

I call BS. He found something that works for him and decided in his own way that it was trading up. It is addictive. Check on the net for porn addiction and you will see that many men who start off desiring their wives will turn to porn and prefer it. Glad to hear you are not one of them.

Sad to know that my H is.

 

Porn has changed the sexual landscape for many couples. Things that 20 years ago were considered highly taboo have become expected of women.

[mem11363]

At 47 - fairly objective view of this:

 

The rules - and he should tell you this and he needs to LIVE BY THIS or you may be heading into a bad situation:

- He needs to know what you want sexually - type and frequency of sex

- He needs to give you at least as much sex as you want

- AFTER fully satisfying you - if he still has unmet needs AND you would rather that he take care of his own needs sexually, porn is fine

 

As the overflow valve it is ok. As a replacement for relationship sex it is NOT ok.

 

I also wish I had realized when I was younger how much more intense sex is when you haven't come for a few days/even a week.

 

 

 

 

Women know guys masturbate to porn and most of us do understand it's normal, but sometimes we feel threatened by it for whatever reason and just need some reassurance. Would you guys be willing to list some reasons we should not view our SO's masturbating to porn as a threat? Can you offer any words of advice to help us stop from feeling insecure about this?

[dreamingoftigers]

At 47 - fairly objective view of this:

 

The rules - and he should tell you this and he needs to LIVE BY THIS or you may be heading into a bad situation:

- He needs to know what you want sexually - type and frequency of sex

- He needs to give you at least as much sex as you want

- AFTER fully satisfying you - if he still has unmet needs AND you would rather that he take care of his own needs sexually, porn is fine

 

As the overflow valve it is ok. As a replacement for relationship sex it is NOT ok.

 

I also wish I had realized when I was younger how much more intense sex is when you haven't come for a few days/even a week.

 

 

This only works if your partner has enough respect for you to listen to your wishes. This only works of your partner actually listens. The funny part about my situation is I have the stronger libido.

[silic0ntoad]

In my situation I find this a really offensive blanket statement. I NEVER withheld from my H. In fact, in the five years we have been together I only turned him down twice. Once shortly after the birth of our daughter and another time where I was literally falling asleep from being up over 24 hours. He withheld from ME. He is constantly rejecting sex with me in favor of watching porn. Is sex with me dull? Maybe but how would he know, he never spent more then 10 minutes at a shot in bed with me no matter how much I tried. He says lasting longer then that is too frustrating but he can look at porn for hours. He has NEVER tried anything to improve our sex life and has consistently refused any efforts on my part. Why should he? His outlet can be found on the next website, his satisfaction only a click away.

 

I have been more than willing (in fact almost demanding) to try new things do kinky things. My H isn't interested. He WANTS PORN. He says it is always new and fresh, but he won't try new and fresh things with me. Hw wants to see lesbians. I even offered at one point to bring that into our relationship. He said no. He doesn't want it in real life because is uncomfortable with it. He says this is "normal." He says he is "shy."

 

I call BS. He found something that works for him and decided in his own way that it was trading up. It is addictive. Check on the net for porn addiction and you will see that many men who start off desiring their wives will turn to porn and prefer it. Glad to hear you are not one of them.

Sad to know that my H is.

 

Porn has changed the sexual landscape for many couples. Things that 20 years ago were considered highly taboo have become expected of women.

 

 

Have I once, in any post specifically, and elicitly, said porn addiction was not true, and did not occur? No. He has a porn addiction. It's as simple as that. It became easier for him.

 

You can be offended by it all you want. Here's the facts:

 

20% of marriages are classified as "sexless."

MANY women nowadays are withholding sex, or view it as unimportant- here's just ONE article-http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/relationships/article2786172.ece

 

Just because YOU offered yourself to him, doesn't mean there were other issues, and men have from time to time withheld sex, but not as profanely as women in the past, and we can ALL agree on that.

[RobM]

.... and we can ALL agree on that.

 

I don't have as many posts as you do, but from what I've read here the above is never true for any subject.

[Des]

I'm simply explaining the dance of life. The need to look, the need to be looked at and where porn, which is simply a spectrum that caters mainly to those who like to 'look', fits into the whole sphere of things.

 

We've been over this I do believe.

 

I understand this theory. It's where you think porn fits into this "sphere" that doesn't fly in a modern and civilized society. Let's be straight-forward here, when you say "dance", you mean what you perceive as nature's order of things. Sure, you can say nature dictates that men seek and women like to be sought. But porn wasn't intended to fit into that picture. Porn is not about attracting men to women, it's not about furthering the species. It's about a fueling unrealistic fantasy, an indulgence in selfish one sided pleasures, and is a tool for masturbation... where does that come into the process of making babies? Porn is something we as a society have created, a deviance away from nature. Don't try to fit random pieces together and say porn is some sort of natural and therefore okay male behavior, or say that what goes on is in one form or another justifiable because "men seek women".

 

 

Women have a natural desire to be desired, to be looked at. The situation where this may occur is immaterial. Understanding that the same behavior that drives men also drives women, but influences us all slightly differently is the most important point here.

 

Again, with a response like this, I think you fail to understand the points I make, or else you ignore them. If you disagree with the portion of the quote you highlighted, you should maybe start with the word "no", then explain to me why I am wrong to say that most women in fact don't want to be viewed or treated as pornography often tells us they do. Though, I just might have to question what planet you live on to suggest otherwise.

 

I agree, but as said earlier, I'm using Jersey Shortie logic. And that logic dictates that men who 'look' at anyone other than their SO is being disrespectful and disloyal to their partner. Therefore, women who dress and look the part (and thus out to seek attention), while not in the company of their men, these women are doing the very same thing that the guys are. That's JS logic for you.

 

Why would looking at someone else other than who you are committed to not be considered being disloyal?

 

Tbh, I don't know what kind of logic you're really using here, but it's certainly broken and seemly meant to confuse and derail.

 

At first you say you agree with my statement, but then revert right back to this belief that when a woman dresses up or looks makes herself look nice she is actively seeking sexual attention from other men, while in a relationship. "A woman who dresses and looks the part" What does that mean? Anything other than leaving the house in baggy sweatpants and a hoodie so as not to attract attention?

 

...On the other hand, men are seeking sexual gratification through their porn use while in relationships, often unapologetically, and without any excuse other than admitting (as we've seen in this very thread) that their SO doesn't cut it, or doesn't fully satisfy them.

[A O]

Let's be straight-forward here, when you say "dance", you mean what you perceive as nature's order of things. Sure, you can say nature dictates that men seek and women like to be sought. But porn wasn't intended to fit into that picture.

Porn, like its alter egos, fashion and cosmetics simply caters to nature. That’s it. Nature - the need to attract and be attracted. The dance of life for most species let alone just us. And as in other areas, man has broadened the scope of what nature initiated – people can ‘look’ far more easily and frequently than ever before. Likewise, people can maintain their looks, their ability to attract, for far longer than ever before. But the end game is still the same, its still about attraction, its still about nature.

 

Why would looking at someone else other than who you are committed to not be considered being disloyal?

Why do you think it is disloyal? Looking is natural after all, few people don’t do it. More to the point though, especially in regards to JS’s views, is the connotation that those who look are for all intents and purposes – bad people. And given that she thinks this, then she must also believe that those who do themselves up to be ‘looked at’ (while not in the company of their SO), they too, must also be bad people. And if you buy into all this, then you’re in effect, rallying against nature.

 

.

[SarahRose]

It is this point that lead me to my argument in the first place. Our arguments, many months ago now, and your belief that porn corrupts relationships and my realization that if this were true then we'd be seeing evidence of this all over the show. With such a large proportion of men viewing porn (as high as 90%+ in some circles) then you'd expect to see some sort of statistic that bears out your argument. But it isn't there, it simply isn't there, and not even to the degree that you'd expect to see other addictive behaviors either. 90% of men, yet no statistics/reports of any kind. Contrast that other well known relationship breakers like gambling and alcohol.

 

Porn is the simple act of looking, of desire. And this act falls more on men than women. The flip side of this coin is wanting to be looked at, wanting to be desired, and this act falls mainly on women than men. What people do when they're looking or being looked at is their business. And this is where you and JS come in, as you give your own interpretations of what you believe they're trying to achieve during this stage.

 

Its simply the relationship dance of life, one that most species perform. The need to attract and be attracted, to desire and be desired, to look and want to be looked at.

 

More to the point though, if you believe that its wrong for a man to 'look' (as JS especially often believes it is) then that's when my argument comes into play. If you have a problem with men looking, then you have to think about the flip side too and ask yourself if you have a problem with women wanting to be looked at. So, if you have a problem with one then you should have a problem with both least you been as a hypocrite (for starters).

 

Saying it is meaningless, having a rationalization that makes sense to back up your claims on the other hand, well that'll be something else.

 

 

.

 

You clearly understand nothing about women.

 

Women like to look just as much as men but we just aren't so obvious about it.

 

The woman equivalent of porn might be flirting with other men and getting aroused by them.

 

If a women was sneaking around getting off to "just pixels" of sexy buff well hung men all the time and fantasizing about sex with these guys with no thought at all about her partner, I doubt many men would think that was ok.

 

Yeah yeah I hear the guys say oh I don't care if she looks at porn. They say that because they think her looking at porn is still about them and that she'll be turned on and he'll get sex from it.

[SarahRose]

Silic0ntoad,

 

 

 

To these women--although they claim to hate it--porn actually represents the idealized physical appearance, and free sexuality, that they wish existed in their own lives, but doesn't. (Obviously porn doesn't actually represent these things; but that's how they subconsciously perceive it.)

 

They are obsessed with the thing they claim to hate: porn.

 

 

Nah, we women would really just like to be accepted and loved the way we are.

 

Just like you men.

 

Look at all the short, dumpy, misfit guys who post on here about how unfair it is that the "hot" women won't date them. They won't accept them for being short, fat, dumb, broke, dumpy, or whatever.

[A O]

You clearly understand nothing about women. Women like to look just as much as men but we just aren't so obvious about it.

Women like to look for sure, but no, they don't look as often as men do. And when I mean look, I'm talking a lot more than simply looking at people around you!

 

If a women was sneaking around getting off to "just pixels" of sexy buff well hung men all the time and fantasizing about sex with these guys with no thought at all about her partner, I doubt many men would think that was ok.

If this interferes, in a negative manner, with the sexual side of a relationship, then its not OK regardless of gender. Otherwise, to each their own.

 

Yeah yeah I hear the guys say oh I don't care if she looks at porn. They say that because they think her looking at porn is still about them and that she'll be turned on and he'll get sex from it.

You're right, most guys don't care and many do hope that'll lead to something more. There's nothing wrong with this, its far better than feeling threatened by it.

 

 

.

[Taramere]

To these women--although they claim to hate it--porn actually represents the idealized physical appearance, and free sexuality, that they wish existed in their own lives, but doesn't.

 

I think you're mistaken in assuming that your notion of the physically ideal woman is shared by women. If porn models were the blueprint for how women would like to look, advertisers would use them to persuade women to buy certain products and magazines. They don't. They use fashion models...who have a look that's far less attainable, for the vast majority of women, than is the porn star look.

 

The fashion model represents physical perfection, the porn model represents sexual availability.

[silic0ntoad]

I still want a justifiable reason for the terms used by many of the women here:

 

Giving them sex

Getting sex

 

Like you all claim, sex isn't something that should be given to a man.

 

Yet the statements made by a few completely undermine that.

[ComeUndone]

I still want a justifiable reason for the terms used by many of the women here:

 

Giving them sex

Getting sex

 

Like you all claim, sex isn't something that should be given to a man.

 

Yet the statements made by a few completely undermine that.

 

I think you reading too much into those statements. It's as if you are trying to somehow prove that how we view sex with our SO is 'he gets it only when I give it to him'. I think many of those statements referenced above are simply stating that their man is 'receiving' sex, or at least has the ability to. Simply because the word 'getting' is used doesn't mean we hold sex for ransom or that we treat it as a 'gift' (which is what one of you indicated).

 

Sexually intimacy between two people that love each other is a gift of course to each other, but not under the terms stated on this thread by one of the porn-defenders.

[ComeUndone]

Troggle - what is the big deal about my avatar? I do like it - I think she is sexy. So she is showing a little ass and her thong... and? My avatar isn't representing porn, to me it's simply a sexy picture that I am using temporarily until I find another I like (as I change them from time to time). You are twisting it into something "dirty" somehow - you make references to "soft porn"... don't you think that's a bit of a stretch? Soft porn.. where people are shown having sex but you don't see penetration? Really Troggle, that is what my avatar represents to you?

[Jersey Shortie]

Troggle, men do not have "logic" and "rationality" coined when it comes to topics of sex, relationships and women. Your emotions and response to this subject are no different then womens. We all go on our personal experiences, our personal opinions and what we've learned. So I find it utterly ridiculous that instead of debating and disagreeing on the topic, you're main goal is to degenerate the female posters that disagree with you. If you want to disagree on points, that's one thing. But to sit there and actually mock and try to degenerate the people that disagree with you instead of addressing the subject is not "logical" or "rational".

 

DES:

I understand this theory. It's where you think porn fits into this "sphere" that doesn't fly in a modern and civilized society. Let's be straight-forward here, when you say "dance", you mean what you perceive as nature's order of things. Sure, you can say nature dictates that men seek and women like to be sought. But porn wasn't intended to fit into that picture. Porn is not about attracting men to women, it's not about furthering the species. It's about a fueling unrealistic fantasy, an indulgence in selfish one sided pleasures, and is a tool for masturbation... where does that come into the process of making babies? Porn is something we as a society have created, a deviance away from nature. Don't try to fit random pieces together and say porn is some sort of natural and therefore okay male behavior, or say that what goes on is in one form or another justifiable because "men seek women"

 

This is a fabulous point that stands well on it's own and needs no elaboration.

[Jersey Shortie]

Silic

Porn has had ZERO impact on my sex life.

 

 

The reality is that porn has had a general impact on society where it's become more acceptable. More men are spending more time looking at more porn and often that porn now is more hardcore.

 

You don't start viewing something at 11, a few it well into adulthood without it affecting your views o nsome level.

 

Do I think that means you beat women? Of course not. It doesn't need to be that extreme. I do think porn has changed men perception of women, their bodies and sex and women's sexuality.

 

 

And no, in this realm of argument, this absolutely only has to do with the man in question. As I said before, HE deems what is fit for satisfaction. Not you. You don't get to "reward" him with sex when he does his good little dance to make you happy. That's preposterous, but, like you said yourself "MEn watch it even when they have plenty of women GIVING them sex." - Your own words from above.

 

My point is that when you are in a relationship it's not just about you anymore. And sexi s a part of a relationship, it's an important subject to talk about. I never said that woman should dictate what makes a man happy. What I did say is that if a woman is meeting his needs most of the time I don't think it's so much to expect him to curb the times she can't out of love for the relationship.

 

So, JS, what is it? Are you simply a misandrist who hates porn? Or do you seek to relegate men to second best, instead of equals? Because I don't know any man who considers sleeping with someone giving them anything.

 

What warrents me being a misandrist? The fact thatI don't like porn? How come I am considered a misandrist because I am vocal about my dislike for porn, something YOU admitted is degrading to women but you love women even though you enjoy porn. What kind of logic is that?

 

Does not liking porn make me a misandrist? Does that men that what defines porn defines men? Not liking porn doesn't make me a misandrist unless you think porn = men.

 

Get over yourself. Women aren't judged harshly by men, but by women. We don't look at you and say your outfit is ridiculous, your heels preposterous, your eyes aren't blue enough. Common fallacy, but I think MOST guys think a girl is hottest in sweats, hair in a pony tail, just out of bed.

 

LOL okay. I will remember that next time I go to a bar or lounge and the guys all eye the same 5'10 blond with the huge rack.

 

Or when I hear a group of guys go gaga over the college cheerleaders during college football season. right. Yeah. Men don't judge women harshly at all.