Men, porn and masturbating

[Jersey Shortie]

People seem to like to throw around the word "healthy" when this topic comes up. And and I think there is a confusion here that get's tangled up. I think masturbation is healthy. I think sexual release is healthy. I do not think the images and messages that porn convey's, nore the infinite abundance of it on the internet now-a-days is anything close to healthy. 10 years ago we wouldn't even be having all these conversations. Men don't look at a magazine once a month anymore. It's a whole new world and no one wants to admit to the damange the social media causes.

 

Statsitcally most boys see porn around age 11 and masturbate to it. That is alot....ALOT, of forminable years a boy spends forming expectations and ideas about women and sexuality. These are sensitive years and these 11 year old boys turn into grown men that have formed their opinion on some point, due to the sexual experiences they have seen and had.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get attacked for this, but I believe most of what JS says is spot on. Sorry, but look around at what so many women are going through... and I myself have dealt with several SO's that had some level of addiction with porn, one that negatively impacted our relationship/sex life. And before anyone says that that was all in my head due to insecurities with myself or some other BS... not the case. I don't claim to be perfect, but this was not my problem.

 

No, I am not saying all men have an issue with porn, but I do feel like just about all of 'em watch it. I also think that the porn industry is creating some real issues out there for humankind. It's just not a realistic representation for the average sex life of a man and a woman. Maybe some can separate the virtual world from the real one, not all, and from what I see it's getting worse. I have friends who's husbands prefer masturbating to their material over having sex with heir wives. It's very sad. Women can't compete, and don't tell me it can't be labeled as a competition because in plenty of instances that's exactly what it is. If he prefers to orgasm to those pixels then often times there is nothing left for his SO. Am I wrong?

 

In my relationship now, I put up with the porn because I think 99% of men out there view it and I wholeheartedly believe that if you try to get them to stop watching it for whatever reason, they will only get sneakier with their viewing habits. For me it works better just going with the flow rather than fighting them... at least this way I am kept in the loop. I gain nothing by talking to him about it. It's too strong of a desire and it's right there at their fingertips any time they want.

 

Thank you and I agree with you too ComeUndone. This isn't a popular topic because it isn't an issue. Or because wome nare the only ones that have issues with it. We are a society fat on food. We are also fat on porn. I think porn is a huge weakness for men. Do I think this makes men evil? Not at all. I do think porn is a huge weakness for men and it exploits tha weakness and instead of giving something to men, it takes something away.

[Des]

Women know guys masturbate to porn and most of us do understand it's normal, but sometimes we feel threatened by it for whatever reason and just need some reassurance. Would you guys be willing to list some reasons we should not view our SO's masturbating to porn as a threat? Can you offer any words of advice to help us stop from feeling insecure about this?

 

This is the notion I'm often referring to. The idea that "most guys do" and "it's normal male behavior". That simply isn't true. You should never accept that as "normal" behavior. It's anything but a normal behavior that is unfortunately often accepted and met with indifference and apathy, this idea that men are always entitled to have their cake and eat it to.

 

I'll tell you, 15 years ago that wasn't the general consensus. I think there has definitely been a widespread change of attitude with these notions since Internet porn all but took over the world, and guys began to feel entitled to it. I don't believe most thought of it as "normal" behavior before then, quite the way they it is now, back when men had to face the public humiliation that came along with an indulgence in the kind of porn they now use day in and out.

[silic0ntoad]

This whole thing is ridiculous.

 

Want to do something about it? Write your local senators. Until then, none of this b*tching and complaining is going to change anything.

 

I watch porn maybe 2 times a month. Most of the time, I am simply too busy and don't have the energy to look sh*t up. If other guys do it more often, more power to them.

 

I agree porn desensitizes the masses. Sure. But so does regular cable TV. So do the images forced on women by so called women health magazines that start at a young age. So do barbie dolls, victoria secret catologues, movies, mass media, radio, etc.

 

Let's face it; this problem isn't based in the core essence of a man's being. We all got around this before the advent of porn, and everyone was just fine. It's the blackness of our society. Honestly, and I really do believe that.

 

Look, this is a country where the rich get richer by all means. If you put a pound of cheese in front of a mouse, he'll eat it and want more. It's the same with everything else.

 

Men watch porn, and have unfair sexual expectations of women. Women read magazines, and have unfair expectations of romance and love with a man. Vicious cycle, but totally true, and if we're talking healthy relationships, I'm saying get rid of porn, and those ****ty magazines, none of those stupid sex moves even work in those damned things.

[dreamingoftigers]

This whole thing is ridiculous.

 

Want to do something about it? Write your local senators. Until then, none of this b*tching and complaining is going to change anything.

 

I watch porn maybe 2 times a month. Most of the time, I am simply too busy and don't have the energy to look sh*t up. If other guys do it more often, more power to them.

 

I agree porn desensitizes the masses. Sure. But so does regular cable TV. So do the images forced on women by so called women health magazines that start at a young age. So do barbie dolls, victoria secret catologues, movies, mass media, radio, etc.

 

Let's face it; this problem isn't based in the core essence of a man's being. We all got around this before the advent of porn, and everyone was just fine. It's the blackness of our society. Honestly, and I really do believe that.

 

Look, this is a country where the rich get richer by all means. If you put a pound of cheese in front of a mouse, he'll eat it and want more. It's the same with everything else.

 

Men watch porn, and have unfair sexual expectations of women. Women read magazines, and have unfair expectations of romance and love with a man. Vicious cycle, but totally true, and if we're talking healthy relationships, I'm saying get rid of porn, and those ****ty magazines, none of those stupid sex moves even work in those damned things.

 

Nicely put.

[dreamingoftigers]

except for one thing, the more women and men talk about it with each other, the more likely one is going to be able to influence another's views about it.

[silic0ntoad]

except for one thing, the more women and men talk about it with each other, the more likely one is going to be able to influence another's views about it.

 

 

Not true, at all. I've never had this problem, because I don't watch porn ona frequent basis.

 

But when it comes down to it, some of my guy friends simply tell their girlfriends they won't watch it, and do so anyway.

 

Just like alot of their girlfriends tell them they'll stop shopping, and keep doing so.

[Jersey Shortie]

Well, I think talking about these mating and relating issues is important.

 

And a asexual activity like shopping is not equal to a very sexual activity like porn.

[troggleputty]

 

 

 

Men watch porn, and have unfair sexual expectations of women. Women read magazines, and have unfair expectations of romance and love with a man. Vicious cycle, but totally true, and if we're talking healthy relationships, I'm saying get rid of porn, and those ****ty magazines, none of those stupid sex moves even work in those damned things.

 

No, I don't think porn creates unrealistic expectations among men.

 

What I think is really going on with the "anti-porn crusader women" is that they view sex as something to be granted to or withheld from the man, but only on their terms. The one thing that is very clarifying about this thread is just how controlling these "anti-porn crusdader women" really are. What a drag! Seriously, someone is concerned about her SO's masturbation/porn habits on the evenings when they're not seeing each other?

 

And, they're not satisfied with trying to control their own bfs or h's, because obviously, they can't do that. So, they want to control every male by expanding their relationship issues and unhappiness to every man and woman.

 

They're mad at porn because when their men use porn, it defeats their ability to use the granting or withholding of sex to control their men.

 

And typically, it's "withholding." They put the cart before the horse, claiming that their men resorting to porn is a cause of their poor relationships, rather than a consequence of their poor relationships.

 

No, the poor relationship can't possibly be due to the woman's sexual inadequacies or inhibitions...so when the man turns to porn to release his frustration, why, it's the man's fault. It's porn's fault.

 

Every single one of the women who are currently complaining is more than capable of providing a very satisfactory sex life to their SO....if they wanted to. This is proven simply by reading all the threads about unfaithful wives who are withholding with sex in their primary relationships, but rut like minxes when they decide to have an affair.

 

Women, if you have an unsatisfactory relationship, porn is not the cause, and porn is not the problem. Porn is the consequence. It's a simple matter of male physiology. A man who is sexually satisfied, by you, is simply not going to be interested in looking at porn. Not on a regular basis, anyway.

 

By the way, have you all ditched your vibrators yet? I want to see one of you ladies get up on a soapbox and proclaim that women should throw away their vibrators. Haven't seen that.

 

Hypocrites.

[Des]

You're right, there isn't enough concern. And there isn't enough concern because relative to other relationship break-up factors, porn simply isn't a concern. It is not a big enough factor to register anywhere. Anywhere! That says a lot. That says everything!

 

You know why there isn't enough concern? Because the idea is that you're crazy if you think the regular viewing of porn is it at all harmful or wrong on any level. No one ever looks at porn and wonders if maybe it had anything to do with a relationship's failure. But my point was, it's not usually that it causes them to end, but the fact that women usually have to "deal" with their use of Internet porn, and often don't speak out against it, or when they do, their men sneak behind their backs and still do it.

 

 

Reduced to its simplest form, porn is all about looking. Porn is all about desire. Reduced to its simply form, cosmetics and fashion is all about the need to look good, to be noticed, to be desired. They are the flip side of the same coin. Everything thing else you've said here is highly subjective.

 

It is? Porn is not meant to attract men to women, it's just a product, meant to be used for arousal and masturbation, an industry where the majority of market is geared towards men for such purposes. Plain and simple. They're observing some unrealistic depiction of people and sexual acts. How can you say that is similar to the fact that most people simply want to look nice? I think you missed the part where I pretty well stated that most people do not dress to in order to arouse someone so that that person can then masturbate to some unrealistic fantasy of them.

 

I think the yin and yang you're looking for here, is the fact that both men and women put effort into attracting the opposite sex in one way or the other, rather than this crazy notion that men's porn use is the inverse to women seeking to attract the opposite sex in real world. Men's porn use isn't what attracts women to men.

 

 

Men can look at porn without masturbating and men look at women in general, all the time. They are all one and the same.

 

I think that porn is often radically different from reality. Comparing porn use to just "looking" at everyday women? I think comparing the two is a pretty weak argument.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Des

[A O]

You're right, there isn't enough concern. And there isn't enough concern because relative to other relationship break-up factors, porn simply isn't a concern. It is not a big enough factor to register anywhere. Anywhere! That says a lot. That says everything!

No one ever looks at porn and wonders if maybe it had anything to do with a relationship's failure.

It is this point that lead me to my argument in the first place. Our arguments, many months ago now, and your belief that porn corrupts relationships and my realization that if this were true then we'd be seeing evidence of this all over the show. With such a large proportion of men viewing porn (as high as 90%+ in some circles) then you'd expect to see some sort of statistic that bears out your argument. But it isn't there, it simply isn't there, and not even to the degree that you'd expect to see other addictive behaviors either. 90% of men, yet no statistics/reports of any kind. Contrast that other well known relationship breakers like gambling and alcohol.

 

It is? Porn is not meant to attract men to women, it's just a product, meant to be used for arousal and masturbation, an industry where the majority of market is geared towards men for such purposes. Plain and simple. They're observing some unrealistic depiction of people and sexual acts. How can you say that is similar to the fact that most people simply want to look nice? I think you missed the part where I pretty well stated that most people do not dress to in order to arouse someone so that that person can then masturbate to some unrealistic fantasy of them.

Porn is the simple act of looking, of desire. And this act falls more on men than women. The flip side of this coin is wanting to be looked at, wanting to be desired, and this act falls mainly on women than men. What people do when they're looking or being looked at is their business. And this is where you and JS come in, as you give your own interpretations of what you believe they're trying to achieve during this stage.

 

I think the yin and yang you're looking for here, is the fact that both men and women put effort into attracting the opposite sex in one way or the other, rather than this crazy notion that men's porn use is the inverse to women seeking to attract the opposite sex in real world. Men's porn use isn't what attracts women to men.

Its simply the relationship dance of life, one that most species perform. The need to attract and be attracted, to desire and be desired, to look and want to be looked at.

 

More to the point though, if you believe that its wrong for a man to 'look' (as JS especially often believes it is) then that's when my argument comes into play. If you have a problem with men looking, then you have to think about the flip side too and ask yourself if you have a problem with women wanting to be looked at. So, if you have a problem with one then you should have a problem with both least you been as a hypocrite (for starters).

 

I think that porn is often radically different from reality. Comparing porn use to just "looking" at everyday women? I think comparing the two is a pretty weak argument.

Saying it is meaningless, having a rationalization that makes sense to back up your claims on the other hand, well that'll be something else.

 

 

.

[Des]

It is this point that lead me to my argument in the first place. Our arguments, many months ago now, and your belief that porn corrupts relationships and my realization that if this were true then we'd be seeing evidence of this all over the show.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on reasons why porn apparently (and I've not researched that extensively, and I know you love evidence) doesn't statistically show itself to be a cause of failed relationships. I think I've stated my point enough, women put up with it, and men sneak and lie even when they are told that it is hurtful. There is much evidence of this that can be found all over the Internet I can assure you.

 

Porn is the simple act of looking, of desire. And this act falls more on men than women. The flip side of this coin is wanting to be looked at, wanting to be desired, and this act falls mainly on women than men. What people do when they're looking or being looked at is their business. And this is where you and JS come in, as you give your own interpretations of what you believe they're trying to achieve during this stage.

 

Your comparison doesn't make sense and is unfair to say the least, you want to ignore the facts of the matter. Porn is a multi-billion dollar a year industry because it is a product to be sold. Most of which is created by men, and for the interest of men.

 

By your logic, you'd have to accuse women of men's porn consumption, because "women have a desire to be "looked" at". Women do not have a desire to be looked at or thought of as they are often depicted in porn. If I recall correctly, porn is often described as "fantasy", a fantasy geared in the interest of men that is far off from reality or real women. So is it really fair to compare that to women's cosmetics and fashion? No, not at all.

 

When will you face the fact that there is no true inverse of this porn use for men? Until women use porn that is geared solely in the interest of women, that depicts men in the same objectified and disposable fashion to the point that it hurts men and makes them feel insecure, and on the same scale as men do, there will be no inverse.

 

More to the point though, if you believe that its wrong for a man to 'look' (as JS especially often believes it is) then that's when my argument comes into play. If you have a problem with men looking, then you have to think about the flip side too and ask yourself if you have a problem with women wanting to be looked at. So, if you have a problem with one then you should have a problem with both least you been as a hypocrite (for starters).

 

We've been over this before. Yes, where many men feel entitled to "look", to use porn, even when in a relationship, I think that is wrong. You can say that they do, but for the most part, I don't think women seek the attention of other men often at all when in a relationship. Yet, as I've mentioned, I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest most men have a problem with using porn while in a relationship or marriage. I wonder how many threads I could find, maybe on LS alone, like this one, where women tell of a boyfriends/husbands porn use and how it hurts them or makes them feel insecure, or how they wish for them to stop looking at it, or stop lying about looking at it? Then how many instances could we find in regards to men complaining about their women attracting other men when in a relationship?

 

Saying it is meaningless, having a rationalization that makes sense to back up your claims on the other hand, well that'll be something else.

 

Why does this kind of response not surprise me?

[Mr White]

Green, sorry to break it out to you, but you might be just getting older.

Based on my own experience, I'm progressively losing interest in porn (and increasingly more likely to consider it questionable activity in general), but I think this is the result of me being 33, and also having a reasonably active sex life with my hot gf.

 

My point being is that I generally agree with the original point, but I wonder how authentic it is, considering the implications of decreased drive combined with regular sex.

 

When I was a few years younger, and didn't have a gf, the considerations in the original post would be pointless to me, since I'd have a lot different view and interest in porn.

 

So, I'm sure porn can screw people up, but this is HIGHLY contingent on various individual and contextual variables. Overly crude blanket statements are not helpful. There is nothing wrong with generalising, but eye should be kept on different aspects of reality.

[A O]

Your comparison doesn't make sense and is unfair to say the least, you want to ignore the facts of the matter.

I'm simply explaining the dance of life. The need to look, the need to be looked at and where porn, which is simply a spectrum that caters mainly to those who like to 'look', fits into the whole sphere of things.

 

By your logic, you'd have to accuse women of men's porn consumption, because "women have a desire to be "looked" at".

I use Jersey logic quite a lot here given that she's the number one porn crusader around . The "because they do it too" doesn't wash with her against the "but we all know who does it the most" argument.

 

Women do not have a desire to be looked at or thought of as they are often depicted in porn.

Women have a natural desire to be desired, to be looked at. The situation where this may occur is immaterial. Understanding that the same behavior that drives men also drives women, but influences us all slightly differently is the most important point here.

 

You can say that they do, but for the most part, I don't think women seek the attention of other men often at all when in a relationship.

I agree, but as said earlier, I'm using Jersey Shortie logic. And that logic dictates that men who 'look' at anyone other than their SO is being disrespectful and disloyal to their partner. Therefore, women who dress and look the part (and thus out to seek attention), while not in the company of their men, these women are doing the very same thing that the guys are. That's JS logic for you.

 

Why does this kind of response not surprise me?

Please surprise me. By what rationale to you dismiss my premise?

 

 

.

Edited April 20, 2010 by A O

[ComeUndone]

No, I don't think porn creates unrealistic expectations among men.

 

What I think is really going on with the "anti-porn crusader women" is that they view sex as something to be granted to or withheld from the man, but only on their terms. The one thing that is very clarifying about this thread is just how controlling these "anti-porn crusdader women" really are. What a drag! Seriously, someone is concerned about her SO's masturbation/porn habits on the evenings when they're not seeing each other?

 

And, they're not satisfied with trying to control their own bfs or h's, because obviously, they can't do that. So, they want to control every male by expanding their relationship issues and unhappiness to every man and woman.

 

They're mad at porn because when their men use porn, it defeats their ability to use the granting or withholding of sex to control their men.

 

And typically, it's "withholding." They put the cart before the horse, claiming that their men resorting to porn is a cause of their poor relationships, rather than a consequence of their poor relationships..

 

I never withhold, ever. I don't believe in punishing, especially when it comes to holding out. I didn't even do that with my ex, and he was a complete dick and had a real addiction to porn.

 

No, the poor relationship can't possibly be due to the woman's sexual inadequacies or inhibitions...so when the man turns to porn to release his frustration, why, it's the man's fault. It's porn's fault.

 

I am definitely not sexually inadequate, and he'd be the first to tell you that if he were here taking part in this thread. He doesn't turn to porn to release his frustration, at least not any that he has developed with me... our relationship is amazing. Guess your theory falls short yet again.

 

Every single one of the women who are currently complaining is more than capable of providing a very satisfactory sex life to their SO....if they wanted to. This is proven simply by reading all the threads about unfaithful wives who are withholding with sex in their primary relationships, but rut like minxes when they decide to have an affair.

 

...and many are providing just that, but it may not be satisfactory to THEM because they are too busy whacking off to porn.

 

Women, if you have an unsatisfactory relationship, porn is not the cause, and porn is not the problem. Porn is the consequence. It's a simple matter of male physiology. A man who is sexually satisfied, by you, is simply not going to be interested in looking at porn. Not on a regular basis, anyway.

 

Wrong again. Guys all over the world look on a regular basis, even when sexually satisfied.

 

By the way, have you all ditched your vibrators yet? I want to see one of you ladies get up on a soapbox and proclaim that women should throw away their vibrators. Haven't seen that.

 

Haha! What's the difference between using a hand or using a vibrator? Vibrators are not a visual aid.. porn is.

[aerogurl87]

By the way, have you all ditched your vibrators yet? I want to see one of you ladies get up on a soapbox and proclaim that women should throw away their vibrators. Haven't seen that.

 

Hypocrites.

 

Well, I personally don't like vibrators. When it comes down to it, if I can have a real life dick, I'll take that over a piece of silicone any day.

[Taramere]

We had agreed before we were married that pornography would not enter our marriage, that boundary was clearly set.

 

I am willing to stay and work on my relationship with my H if he actually follows through on getting help for his sex addiction. I have not said, "if you get help in the next month, or the next 3 months." It is, "if I am ignored again and I catch this EVER again, you are F-ING gone." Done. I have put up with this for far too long and gone through too much counseling and neglect. No more warnings. You are just gone. You may come home one day and find it empty. The end.

 

Don't tell me I am just some whimpering doormat. I get up in the morning and I know that I can look myself in the mirror and say to myself, and in the future my daughter, "I did everything I could to save my family, this was my H's choice."

 

I didn't get pregnant after finding out the guy was a moron. I genuinely thought he had some health problems that sent his sex drive out of whack.

 

It turns out my H is sick. He is an addict. Now he has a choice to make. I will not wait any longer. I don't expect him to get cured right away but he is damned if he is going to bring anymore whores onto my couch be they the real deal or "pixels."

 

I don't really know what goes on in sex addiction therapy, but I get the impression from your post that it's as though your husband is some sort of invalid in need of support. Can blocking him from porn access and having sex addiction therapy assist him away from being this pseudo-invalid masturbating in front of a computer screen, to being a man who's proactive with flesh and blood you in the bedroom?

 

It's mind-boggling how much money is being taken off people in the name of helping them to masturbate (the porn industry) and helping them to free themselves of "sex addiction" (counselling industries). Call it sex addiction, and suddenly it can become this problem that a man and woman are tackling together. Create a sense of "me and you against this monstrous porn problem". But will that result in physical intimacy being brought back into the marriage?

 

All my instincts would be to say "Right. From now on, you'ree free to wank off to porn 24/7 if you so desire. Nobody's going to be on your case about it, because you're going to be living on your own and able to do whatever you like. Ta ta."

 

But to accompany a man to therapy in the name of trying to get him sexually interested in you again sounds humiliating. It must take huge amounts of effort on your part to put aside those feelings of anger and humiliation in the name of being and caring and supportive wife.

 

Is it worth it? Is it working? If it doesn't seem to be thus far, how much longer are you going to keep doing it?

[Jersey Shortie]

And yet, men keep defending porn. They claim things like it's such an inadequate subsitute and "it's not that important", but many men will fight to the death over their porn, more so then they will over real women. And if a woman doesn't agree with porn, he will hide it so that he can keep looking at it because the porn is just that important to him. What some guys claim is true, and what their words and actions really are saying are two different things.

 

By the way, the average age a guy/boy starts looking at porn is 11 years of age. That is ALOT of formindable years to form ideas about women, sex and sexuality from porn. These 11 year old boys grow up to be adult men who act like porn hasn't affected them. But no one who is looking at porn since your young years isn't not completely unaffected. Infact, the result is an epedimic of depency that we often see in today's men. Such as this thread that continue to defend porn over real women. If men stood up for real women at the rate they stood up for porn..that would be mind bloggeling.

[silic0ntoad]

And yet, men keep defending porn. They claim things like it's such an inadequate subsitute and "it's not that important", but many men will fight to the death over their porn, more so then they will over real women. And if a woman doesn't agree with porn, he will hide it so that he can keep looking at it because the porn is just that important to him. What some guys claim is true, and what their words and actions really are saying are two different things.

 

By the way, the average age a guy/boy starts looking at porn is 11 years of age. That is ALOT of formindable years to form ideas about women, sex and sexuality from porn. These 11 year old boys grow up to be adult men who act like porn hasn't affected them. But no one who is looking at porn since your young years isn't not completely unaffected. Infact, the result is an epedimic of depency that we often see in today's men. Such as this thread that continue to defend porn over real women. If men stood up for real women at the rate they stood up for porn..that would be mind bloggeling.

 

This is ridiculous. JS, you're statements have been debunked time and time again, and you refer to the same old arguments that have been countered, and you know very precisely my stance on pornography.

 

Fair enough, if men stood up for women... But, what would be truly mind boggling is if Women DIDN'T hold sex as a "reward" for their good little boyfriends, and treated US as equals when it comes to a good sex life, then this entire argument would cease to be.

 

It's also a proven fact (I'll look up the exact statistics later) that women withold sex after marriage. Go on, look in these very forums, and you'll see countless men asking for desperate help because their wives aren't interested in sex.

 

Look, if you all want to marry monks, move to tibet. Otherwise, realise, exactly as stated above, porn use IS a symptom of a shi*ty sex life, and just because YOU are satisfied with sex 1/every other week doesn't mean we are.

 

(Awaits the deluge of "I have sex with him all the time, I am practically like a guy" posts)

[Jersey Shortie]

What part in my post is ridiculous? I see men say time and time again that porn isn't important, it's just "pixels", it doesn't affect men at all even though I believe that to be a bit naive. But when it comes down to not viewing porn, it becomes a HUGE deal to men. When the question comes up on not having porn around, you can practically see the male heads pop up, eyes widen and then start to say "no way is that happening". Men say it's not important but then you see SO MANY guys defend it and stick up for it. I'd love to see guys stick up for real woman like this. It's important enough to lie to their partners about sometimes too. And no, men don't lie about porn to protect their partner. They lie about porn because they want both the options of having a real life partner AND porn to indugle in. Lying about porn is all about what they want. I also think men tend to down-play their porn use..the "I only view it a *little bit*" can be very misleading.

 

And sorry, I don't think it's ridiculous at all to acknowledge that something men have been veiwing since they are are 11 is going to have some affect on them and some sway on their views. 11 years old are formative years to be forming ideas about women and sex.

 

 

Fair enough, if men stood up for women... But, what would be truly mind boggling is if Women DIDN'T hold sex as a "reward" for their good little boyfriends, and treated US as equals when it comes to a good sex life, then this entire argument would cease to be.

 

I see, so instead of regarding what I've said here yuo've washed it side and instead imputted your own desire and needs that you clearly think should take precedate... the idea of men standing up for women was jsut brushed aside for what *you* rather focus on. Instead of adding more thoughtful comments to what I orginally said and making your own point further down the line.

 

I will say it again, if men stood up for real women like they often seem to for pornography, that would be mind boggling.

 

I also don't think women should use sex as a reward and think men have a right to be disatisifed with the amount of sex they get in a relationship but not sure I think that warrents turning to an industry that is pretty degrading to women first.

[phineas]

Why is it porn's fault an 11 yr old is watching it?

 

Do you blame booze if an 11 yr old drinks it?

Do you blame cigaretts if an 11 yr old smokes them?

Do you blame drugs if an 11 yr old takes them?

 

I doubt it because I don't see too many threads started to campaign against these things like I do porn.

[phineas]

Jersey, you've been asked this numerous times & i've yet to see you answer the question.

 

What is your view on amatuer porn?

Porn made by real people & free on the internet?

[silic0ntoad]

What part in my post is ridiculous? I see men say time and time again that porn isn't important, it's just "pixels", it doesn't affect men at all even though I believe that to be a bit naive. But when it comes down to not viewing porn, it becomes a HUGE deal to men. When the question comes up on not having porn around, you can practically see the male heads pop up, eyes widen and then start to say "no way is that happening". Men say it's not important but then you see SO MANY guys defend it and stick up for it. I'd love to see guys stick up for real woman like this. It's important enough to lie to their partners about sometimes too. And no, men don't lie about porn to protect their partner. They lie about porn because they want both the options of having a real life partner AND porn to indugle in. Lying about porn is all about what they want. I also think men tend to down-play their porn use..the "I only view it a *little bit*" can be very misleading.

 

And sorry, I don't think it's ridiculous at all to acknowledge that something men have been veiwing since they are are 11 is going to have some affect on them and some sway on their views. 11 years old are formative years to be forming ideas about women and sex.

 

 

 

 

I see, so instead of regarding what I've said here yuo've washed it side and instead imputted your own desire and needs that you clearly think should take precedate... the idea of men standing up for women was jsut brushed aside for what *you* rather focus on. Instead of adding more thoughtful comments to what I orginally said and making your own point further down the line.

 

I will say it again, if men stood up for real women like they often seem to for pornography, that would be mind boggling.

 

I also don't think women should use sex as a reward and think men have a right to be disatisifed with the amount of sex they get in a relationship but not sure I think that warrents turning to an industry that is pretty degrading to women first.

 

I'm not turning aside your points of standing up for a woman. In fact, in my own experience, I have ALWAYS defended a girl I was with and stood up for her.

 

But as for evidence, it's also a proven fact that women DO withold sex once marriage starts, and it leads to disatisfaction.

 

Case in point. My ex and I were together for 4.5 yrs. She started witholding sex about two years in, with the typical excuses, because she thought I was hers and no more work was necessary on her behalf. I got frustrated. I argued, I brought my problems up, she said she would work on it, no progress was ever made, I made changes, but to no avail. My response? Watch porn.

 

Why did I watch porn? Not because I didn't desire my girlfriend of the time, or because I wanted things she couldn't give me, but things she WOULDN'T give me, for whatever reason.

 

Porn is a product of disatisfaction which leads to visual fantasy because the said man is not being fulfilled in a way he deems fit. Remember, HE deems fit. You don't get to say how much is required to satisfy your man, it's individualised to each person and each man's sex drive to determine his adequate amount of sexual arousal and activity.

 

Sure, guys may start watching porn at a young age, and this may influence them in the future in the arena of sexual desire, but young women are influenced all the same in a more insidious manner which leads to self flaggellation, eating disorders, self destructive patterns, self loathing, the list goes on and on. You can't deny that those factors also don't contribute to sexual despair in the future. Women who are insecure tend to have less active, healthy sex lives, which in turn leads to unhappy SO's, which in turn leads to porn watching.

 

When a man is denied sexual satisfaction, he will find it, one way or another, 99% of the time being pornography. Young guys watch it out of curiosity, the taboo nature of the subject, and of course sexual release, as hormones are going crazy, driving them to desire something they cannot have.

[Jersey Shortie]

Jersey, you've been asked this numerous times & i've yet to see you answer the question.

What is your view on amatuer porn?

Porn made by real people & free on the internet?

 

 

Just because *you* haven't seen me answer it doesn't mean I haven't. I get asked this regularly and have answered it many times before.

 

I am not really sure what amatuer porn is though to be honest but from my understanding, all porn is made by real people and can be freee on the interenet so I don't see why this should be any different or change my views.

 

 

Why is it porn's fault an 11 yr old is watching it?

 

LOL. What does this have to do with anything? The fact remains, young boys in formative years are viewing material that isn't too kind towards women. And thsoe young boys grown into adult men.

[RobM]

You used to be such a happy friendly person, what happened in your life to make you so unhappy?

[silic0ntoad]

LOL. What does this have to do with anything? The fact remains, young boys in formative years are viewing material that isn't too kind towards women. And thsoe young boys grown into adult men.

 

See above, JS. The majority of my male friends don't treat women like porn stars, but we all watch porn. I think two of my plethora of friends actually talk in a degrading manner about women.

 

How many girls do you know obsessed with self image, have eating issues, diet all the time, are obsessed with fashion, are always trying to change their bf's...

 

Tit for tat.