Men, porn and masturbating

[ComeUndone]

Amateur porn quite often isn't amateur at all. Its simply individuals or small independent outfits doing what the bigger players are doing. They're still looking to make money out of it though.

 

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Exactly. They're all actors to a degree... they know they're being filmed and that it has to be good.

[eric82]

Why would amateur porn be any different?

I'm asking because I'm trying to see what her issue with porn is on a fundamental level.

[A O]

No, I am not saying all men have an issue with porn, but I do feel like just about all of 'em watch it.

I believe this also and yet the number of relationships affected through porn only, is so infinitesimal that you can't even find a decent statistic on this matter. That's saying something!

 

Women can't compete, and don't tell me it can't be labeled as a competition because in plenty of instances that's exactly what it is. If he prefers to orgasm to those pixels then often times there is nothing left for his SO. Am I wrong?

Again, the proof is in the pudding. If this were the general view of women then porn would rival, if not topple, every other reason women would leave men for simply because porn is so intertwined in the lives of men. Since this isn't the case then your clearly seeing things from the wrong point of view. 'Porn' is no more in competition for the attention of the average women as 'cosmetics' and 'fashion' and the need to be looked at by men other than a woman's significant other is to men.

 

I put up with the porn because I think 99% of men out there view it and I wholeheartedly believe that if you try to get them to stop watching it for whatever reason, they will only get sneakier with their viewing habits.

Do you dress/look to impress in the absence of your man? Do you wear cosmetics, nice clothes when you're out and about and he's not around. If you do, then you're doing the same thing as many men do but in reverse. Rather than 'looking' as many men do, you're wanting to be 'looked at.' Now, arguably, men could say the same deal - we have to put up with our women always wanting to look the part, to feel desired whenever we're not around. But the simple fact of the matter is that most men don't ever bother thinking this way just like most women don't ever bother thinking the way you do in regards to men and porn.

 

For me it works better just going with the flow rather than fighting them... at least this way I am kept in the loop. I gain nothing by talking to him about it. It's too strong of a desire and it's right there at their fingertips any time they want.

When you feel as strongly as you do, and that's strong enough to come here and talk about it, and yet not want to talk to him about it then it makes me feel highly skeptical about your situation overall.

 

 

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[dreamingoftigers]

So who's the bigger the fool - the guy that whacks off to a computer screen or the woman that puts up with it?

 

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I am not putting up with it, read my coping log.

 

I didn't know for two years why I was being denied sex, I found out when I was 8 months pregnant. We went for marital counseling. He lied to the counselor and told him that he quit looking at it. 5 months later I found dating websites. We went for sex addiction counseling. He has been having IC and EMDR. Found out 3 weeks ago that he is still hooked into it and has not stopped the whole time.

 

Gave him my final ultimatum and locked him out of the computer. I use a new password daily. He knows I am at the end. It is his choice, he actively doe his recovery or he is done. I have tried everything for the sake of our family and daughter.

 

I have been a fool, but I will have no more of this.

[A O]

I am not putting up with it, read my coping log.

I don't need too. Your situation is common place. You only have one option. For the sake of your child, I suggest you take it. Leave him.

 

 

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[dreamingoftigers]

This guy is clearly dysfunctional and yet not only does she still continue to live with him, but she has a child to this guy as well. For the sake of the child - get out!!!

 

Happens all the time.

 

First off, dumping never entered my mind (but when you told me a lil more about her man then that's clearly become the wisest thing to do IMO). The foolishness of not setting boundaries is what I saw first and foremost here. Anyone who doesn't set clear boundaries is a doormat waiting to happen!

 

Any man that thinks of women as whores or actually prefers these types over his woman is a man that any woman with any ounce of sense would dump in a heartbeat. There's moronic guys like this around because there's idiot women who put up with them.

 

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We had agreed before we were married that pornography would not enter our marriage, that boundary was clearly set.

 

I am willing to stay and work on my relationship with my H if he actually follows through on getting help for his sex addiction. I have not said, "if you get help in the next month, or the next 3 months." It is, "if I am ignored again and I catch this EVER again, you are F-ING gone." Done. I have put up with this for far too long and gone through too much counseling and neglect. No more warnings. You are just gone. You may come home one day and find it empty. The end.

 

Don't tell me I am just some whimpering doormat. I get up in the morning and I know that I can look myself in the mirror and say to myself, and in the future my daughter, "I did everything I could to save my family, this was my H's choice."

 

I didn't get pregnant after finding out the guy was a moron. I genuinely thought he had some health problems that sent his sex drive out of whack.

 

It turns out my H is sick. He is an addict. Now he has a choice to make. I will not wait any longer. I don't expect him to get cured right away but he is damned if he is going to bring anymore whores onto my couch be they the real deal or "pixels."

[dreamingoftigers]

I believe this also and yet the number of relationships affected through porn only, is so infinitesimal that you can't even find a decent statistic on this matter. That's saying something!

 

time to look up some literature dude. As soon as I found out that it was addictive I tripped into a pile of it. This is a growing problem. My next door neighbour has the same problem with her husband being withholding and them watching porn. It is not as uncommon as you think.

 

Again, the proof is in the pudding. If this were the general view of women then porn would rival, if not topple, every other reason women would leave men for simply because porn is so intertwined in the lives of men. Since this isn't the case then your clearly seeing things from the wrong point of view. 'Porn' is no more in competition for the attention of the average women as 'cosmetics' and 'fashion' and the need to be looked at by men other than a woman's significant other is to men.

 

Porn has killed my sex life. I don't care if other men look at me. they might as well sew my private parts such for all of the good they do me.

 

Do you dress/look to impress in the absence of your man? Do you wear cosmetics, nice clothes when you're out and about and he's not around. If you do, then you're doing the same thing as many men do but in reverse. Rather than 'looking' as many men do, you're wanting to be 'looked at.' Now, arguably, men could say the same deal - we have to put up with our women always wanting to look the part, to feel desired whenever we're not around. But the simple fact of the matter is that most men don't ever bother thinking this way just like most women don't ever bother thinking the way you do in regards to men and porn.

 

I dress nice and do my hair nice to give myself the treat of feeling good about myself. I do not do this at the expense of my relationship or to try to attract a new mate. I also do this to model confidence for my daughter.

 

When you feel as strongly as you do, and that's strong enough to come here and talk about it, and yet not want to talk to him about it then it makes me feel highly skeptical about your situation overall.

 

 

 

 

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oh crap my quotes are in with the other quotes. yay, its a puzzle!

[A O]

I am willing to stay and work on my relationship with my H if he actually follows through on getting help for his sex addiction.

I am not surprised. You need to work on yourself every bit as much as he does. You put up with having little to no sex for two years and never once cared to, or had the gumption to ask!

 

You can tell a sound relationship by the level of its communication. None of this crap would have happened had one or both of you had the skill to communicate your needs. You can think of me as the biggest a-hole in the world, but until you learn to communicate effectively (and don't try and pull the wool over anyone's eyes, least of all your own into believing that you do, because clearly you don't), then you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. And guess who'll pick up on them as she gets older too....

 

 

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[dreamingoftigers]

I am not surprised. You need to work on yourself every bit as much as he does. You put up with having little to no sex for two years and never once cared to, or had the gumption to ask!

 

You can tell a sound relationship by the level of its communication. None of this crap would have happened had one or both of you had the skill to communicate your needs. You can think of me as the biggest a-hole in the world, but until you learn to communicate effectively (and don't try and pull the wool over anyone's eyes, least of all your own into believing that you do, because clearly you don't), then you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. And guess who'll pick up on them as she gets older too....

 

 

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Hey, well i need not tell you that I spent two years asking what the HELL was wrong. I lost 70 lbs. I got toys and lingerie and went to medical appointments because he told me he got recurrent headaches and stomachaches.

 

I wasn't willing to drop the marriage at that point no matter how frustrating because I thought he was SICK! My first thought wasn't the he was a lying, sex-addicted A-HOLE!

 

He didn't even leave any real evidence behind, I had never even heard of Inprivate settings and never knew how insidious this industry was by sending BS names on credit cards that just look like online games!

 

Are you serious? The whole industry was based on deception. I used to break down and cry out of frustration sometimes even beg and then he started the whole headache and stomachache BS.

 

Trust me, I am no shrinking violet, but I am no bitch, my needs were known, VERY well known.

 

I am also pursuing IC and EMDR to work out my own issues for the sake of my daughter. I am also attending SA and S-Anon. So maybe you should read my log before you spew you prophetic blame and shame crap.

 

Furthermore after getting emotionally kicked in the head for so long, one tends to have a blurry focus after awhile and occasionally doubts one's self-worth. Try living with it and then tell me where you could have done better.

[A O]

I believe this also and yet the number of relationships affected through porn only, is so infinitesimal that you can't even find a decent statistic on this matter. That's saying something!

time to look up some literature dude. As soon as I found out that it was addictive I tripped into a pile of it. This is a growing problem. My next door neighbour has the same problem with her husband being withholding and them watching porn. It is not as uncommon as you think.

Its not common enough to find any meaningful statistics over. So that makes it incredibly uncommon.

 

Porn has killed my sex life. I don't care if other men look at me. they might as well sew my private parts such for all of the good they do me.

I'm willing to bet that there's more factors in play than porn that have stuffed up your whole relationship, not just sex.

 

I dress nice and do my hair nice to give myself the treat of feeling good about myself. I do not do this at the expense of my relationship or to try to attract a new mate. I also do this to model confidence for my daughter.

And men view porn because it feels good. And most of us can do it without it affecting our relationship in any negative way. This is evidenced again by the lack of any meaningful statistics that centre around women leaving men due to porn. The big point here is though, is that sooner or later (if not already) we're going to have men taking exception to their partners who dress up, look the part in their absence because they somehow believe that they're trying to attract the attention of other men. And yet these women are doing it simply because it makes them feel good. But these guys aren't going to see it that way, just like some women aren't going to believe their men when they say that they're only doing it because it feels good. In short, and clearly this isn't the case for you, but we're going to get situations where both men and women simply read a lot more into things than need be.

 

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[A O]

Furthermore after getting emotionally kicked in the head for so long, one tends to have a blurry focus after awhile and occasionally doubts one's self-worth. Try living with it and then tell me where you could have done better.

I wouldn't have put up with it. Most people wouldn't have put up with it and you sure as heck don't need to put up with it anymore. I'm pleased that you're working on yourself, always the best place to start.

 

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[troggleputty]

I'm sure I'm going to get attacked for this, but I believe most of what JS says is spot on. Sorry, but look around at what so many women are going through... and I myself have dealt with several SO's that had some level of addiction with porn, one that negatively impacted our relationship/sex life. And before anyone says that that was all in my head due to insecurities with myself or some other BS... not the case. I don't claim to be perfect, but this was not my problem.

 

No, I am not saying all men have an issue with porn, but I do feel like just about all of 'em watch it. I also think that the porn industry is creating some real issues out there for humankind. It's just not a realistic representation for the average sex life of a man and a woman. Maybe some can separate the virtual world from the real one, not all, and from what I see it's getting worse. I have friends who's husbands prefer masturbating to their material over having sex with heir wives. It's very sad. Women can't compete, and don't tell me it can't be labeled as a competition because in plenty of instances that's exactly what it is. If he prefers to orgasm to those pixels then often times there is nothing left for his SO. Am I wrong?

 

In my relationship now, I put up with the porn because I think 99% of men out there view it and I wholeheartedly believe that if you try to get them to stop watching it for whatever reason, they will only get sneakier with their viewing habits. For me it works better just going with the flow rather than fighting them... at least this way I am kept in the loop. I gain nothing by talking to him about it. It's too strong of a desire and it's right there at their fingertips any time they want.

 

 

If you are against porn, then why did you choose an avatar which shows a very sexy woman's backside showing off her thong?

 

If that was a picture of yourself, I seriously doubt your SO would seek recourse in porn.

 

Be honest now. Why did you choose an avatar that emulates exactly that which you claim you are opposed to?

[ComeUndone]

When you feel as strongly as you do, and that's strong enough to come here and talk about it, and yet not want to talk to him about it then it makes me feel highly skeptical about your situation overall.

 

My situation? Not sure what that is supposed to mean. "Here" is the perfect place to talk about it. As I said before, I have my reasons for not discussing it with him, and to me they are very valid... I don't think there is anything to gain. He and I have talked about various porn addictions and he agrees that there are some guys with problems, but I know his viewpoint on porn in general, and it's like most guys' on here: "Nothin' wrong with porn." He is entitled to opinions about it and being that they differ from mine, I'm not going to try to get him to change his ways. I think that's a losing battle. Instead I come on here looking for advice on better ways of coping with it on my end...

 

Cosmetics to women is not the same as porn to guys. Apples to apples please.

Edited April 19, 2010 by ComeUndone

[A O]

My situation? Not sure what that is supposed to mean. "Here" is the perfect place to talk about it. As I said before, I have my reasons for not discussing it with him, and to me they are very valid... I don't think there is anything to gain. He and I have talked about various porn addictions and he agrees that there are some guys with problems, but I know his viewpoint on porn in general, and it's like most guys' on here: "Nothin' wrong with porn."

You have a problem with porn. You seem to able to discuss almost anything with your man yet you can't discuss this problem with your man despite being able to discuss this problem and your views on porn in general on here. It doesn't add up.

 

Cosmetics to women is not the same as porn to guys. Apples to apples please.

Cosmetics and fashion is the flip side to porn. Porn is about looking/desire, cosmetics and fashion is about wanting to be looked at - desired.

 

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[ComeUndone]

You have a problem with porn. You seem to able to discuss almost anything with your man yet you can't discuss this problem with your man despite being able to discuss this problem and your views on porn in general on here. It doesn't add up.

 

 

Because I know that if I say anything to him about it then I close up the openness we have about it right now and that means more to be than airing my negative viewpoint about it. What the hell good would that do? He, like most guys, would likely just crack it up to a female insecurity and then he'd close up completely. I know what his fetishes are and we talk frankly about porn in general.. I don't want to lose that. If I thought it would do any good I would say something but I really see no point.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

[MichelleZB]

Porn and masturbation are just routine maintenance for most men, and nothing to worry about. As long as you are enjoying a healthy, active sex life with your partner, his "clearing of the pipes" shouldn't really concern you.

 

For instance, my husband and I have sex 3 or 4 times a week, which seems like the right amount for both of us. We are very connected in bed and have a great sex life. We're open to new things and communicate and I KNOW it's great for him and it's great for me.

 

He says he masturbates every day, though honestly I don't usually notice when he does it. Mostly in the shower, I suppose. And he looks at porn on the internet. I think it's sweet. I mean, it's a good sign that he gets turned on by lady parts, because, hey--I have a set of those myself!

 

This is a picture of a healthy relationship and healthy porn use. You want your partner to be into lady parts generally and yours particularly, and you want his sexual activities to reflect that.

 

Now there are some people who have been posting whose partners are masturbating to porn but not actually having sex with them! That, to me, is an entirely different matter. Those men are not doing their jobs and should be traded in for better models.

[dreamingoftigers]

Porn and masturbation are just routine maintenance for most men, and nothing to worry about. As long as you are enjoying a healthy, active sex life with your partner, his "clearing of the pipes" shouldn't really concern you.

 

For instance, my husband and I have sex 3 or 4 times a week, which seems like the right amount for both of us. We are very connected in bed and have a great sex life. We're open to new things and communicate and I KNOW it's great for him and it's great for me.

 

He says he masturbates every day, though honestly I don't usually notice when he does it. Mostly in the shower, I suppose. And he looks at porn on the internet. I think it's sweet. I mean, it's a good sign that he gets turned on by lady parts, because, hey--I have a set of those myself!

 

This is a picture of a healthy relationship and healthy porn use. You want your partner to be into lady parts generally and yours particularly, and you want his sexual activities to reflect that.

 

Now there are some people who have been posting whose partners are masturbating to porn but not actually having sex with them! That, to me, is an entirely different matter. Those men are not doing their jobs and should be traded in for better models.

 

Easier said then done. Now that my spouse and I are both in recovery we have been told that the prognosis for our relationship is good, but my H does need to stop the porn in order to have a real sex life again. I wouldn't just abandon my spouse if he were trying to recover from another type of disease, if just sucks that this addiction is so insidious and behavioural.

[CaliGuy]

Women know guys masturbate to porn and most of us do understand it's normal, but sometimes we feel threatened by it for whatever reason and just need some reassurance. Would you guys be willing to list some reasons we should not view our SO's masturbating to porn as a threat? Can you offer any words of advice to help us stop from feeling insecure about this?

 

I see it as a problem to be honest. If they have to dive into porn for whatever reason, it's not a strong enough reason IMHO.

 

Besides, porn simply numbs/dulls men to real sexuality. Men who do this, IMHO, are trying to get needs met that they can not accomplish other ways.

 

So I agree in the sense that if you are catching them in the act, you have a chronic sex addict that is using porn to fill a void.

 

How boring!!!

[dreamingoftigers]

I see it as a problem to be honest. If they have to dive into porn for whatever reason, it's not a strong enough reason IMHO.

 

Besides, porn simply numbs/dulls men to real sexuality. Men who do this, IMHO, are trying to get needs met that they can not accomplish other ways.

 

So I agree in the sense that if you are catching them in the act, you have a chronic sex addict that is using porn to fill a void.

 

How boring!!!

 

Thank you, nice to see another guy.

 

And guess what, contrary to what one might think, sex with my H at the peak of addiction is very boring because he is just centered on getting me off as quick as possible so he can get off and be done. No exploring, no loving.

[Des]

I believe this also and yet the number of relationships affected through porn only, is so infinitesimal that you can't even find a decent statistic on this matter. That's saying something!

 

I think that depends on your definition of "affected". Relationships are affected by porn in more than just one way, more than just causing them to end. And really, just because you can't find a study giving you numbers means that something doesn't exist? I think it only shows that their isn't enough concern.

 

Do you dress/look to impress in the absence of your man? Do you wear cosmetics, nice clothes when you're out and about and he's not around. If you do, then you're doing the same thing as many men do but in reverse.

 

How is that even close? Men masturbate to porn, they become physically and emotional connected to it. They use it as an alternative to sex and intimacy, to infinitely indulge in selfish pleasure without consequence. How does that compare to seeing someone on the street that you find to be pretty or handsome?

 

Some men also put effort into their appearance, and most of the time when people do this, it isn't because they want to be ogled. Who wants to go out of the house wearing sweatpants and a stained t-shirt just so they can be sure and not impress anyone? Yes, people like to be acknowledged and appreciated, they want to look nice. How is that in any way the same as a man masturbating to an objectified image of a person made to fit to their every sexual fantasy? When men use porn, much more occurs than what could be compared to simply "looking" at someone.

 

 

I think what AO fails to understand is that the fixation and addiction of porn with so many men is their own problem, and not women's problem. We live in a time where porn use is portrayed as is typical, normal, healthy male behavior. To question or stand against that seems "silly", otherwise you must be a prude, or insecure to not just accept it. The fact of the matter is that most women simply do just that, they put up with it. It has become easier to deal with it, than to protest it at this point. I have seen the scenario play out again and again. "My husband is watching porn, should I say something to him?" "My boyfriend is sneaking behind my back and watching porn." The typical response? "Get over it. All guys do it."

 

AO seems to believe that the problem is to be on the shoulders of women. Men's continuous use and fixation on all things porn is not their own issue, but women's, because women are responsible for stopping men from watching it. How about men owning up and admitting to their behavior as self-indulgent and disrespectful, instead of making excuses to continue it?

[ComeUndone]

I see it as a problem to be honest. If they have to dive into porn for whatever reason, it's not a strong enough reason IMHO.

 

Besides, porn simply numbs/dulls men to real sexuality. Men who do this, IMHO, are trying to get needs met that they can not accomplish other ways.

 

So I agree in the sense that if you are catching them in the act, you have a chronic sex addict that is using porn to fill a void.

 

How boring!!!

 

We don't see each other every night, so it's some of those "off-nights" when he will watch porn. He has said that sometimes he turns it on because he is bored with nothing better to do (and not necessarily because he is horny?) But you say men who do this are trying to get needs met that they can not accomplish other ways. You must not be speaking of sexual needs? What void (if not sexual) are they trying to fill by masturbating to porn?

 

I like you're way of thinking btw... seems the mainstream men out there defend their porn use at all costs, which is why I have resorted to finding ways of coping with it rather than battle them.

[ComeUndone]

 

I think what AO fails to understand is that the fixation and addiction of porn with so many men is their own problem, and not women's problem. We live in a time where porn use is portrayed as is typical, normal, healthy male behavior. To question or stand against that seems "silly", otherwise you must be a prude, or insecure to not just accept it. The fact of the matter is that most women simply do just that, they put up with it. It has become easier to deal with it, than to protest it at this point. I have seen the scenario play out again and again. "My husband is watching porn, should I say something to him?" "My boyfriend is sneaking behind my back and watching porn." The typical response? "Get over it. All guys do it."

 

AO seems to believe that the problem is to be on the shoulders of women. Men's continuous use and fixation on all things porn is not their own issue, but women's, because women are responsible for stopping men from watching it. How about men owning up and admitting to their behavior as self-indulgent and disrespectful, instead of making excuses to continue it?

 

I have been at both end of the spectrum. In my last relationship I battled his porn use - he lied and gaslighted and denied my reality to the point that I thought I was losing my mind. As it turns out he had an addiction to it, and all the attempts at banishing it from my house were justified.

 

My current relationship is much healthier, but he also watches porn. There are times when I resent it based on it's impact on our sex life, but overall it seems to be somewhat "normal" and therefore I am trying to just deal with it because fighting it does not work. Now if there was an addiction to porn that routinely impacted our sex life, that would be different - I would not sit here quietly. That being said, I wouldn't anticipate him changing his ways either (hope yes, anticipate no). I think a porn habit is next to impossible to break.

[dreamingoftigers]

I have been at both end of the spectrum. In my last relationship I battled his porn use - he lied and gaslighted and denied my reality to the point that I thought I was losing my mind. As it turns out he had an addiction to it, and all the attempts at banishing it from my house were justified.

 

My current relationship is much healthier, but he also watches porn. There are times when I resent it based on it's impact on our sex life, but overall it seems to be somewhat "normal" and therefore I am trying to just deal with it because fighting it does not work. Now if there was an addiction to porn that routinely impacted our sex life, that would be different - I would not sit here quietly. That being said, I wouldn't anticipate him changing his ways either (hope yes, anticipate no). I think a porn habit is next to impossible to break.

 

Agreed, mine took years. My H has nearly lost his family and is just starting to get the message.

[A O]

I think that depends on your definition of "affected". Relationships are affected by porn in more than just one way, more than just causing them to end. And really, just because you can't find a study giving you numbers means that something doesn't exist? I think it only shows that their isn't enough concern.

You're right, there isn't enough concern. And there isn't enough concern because relative to other relationship break-up factors, porn simply isn't a concern. It is not a big enough factor to register anywhere. Anywhere! That says a lot. That says everything!

 

How is that even close? Men masturbate to porn, they become physically and emotional connected to it. They use it as an alternative to sex and intimacy, to infinitely indulge in selfish pleasure without consequence. How does that compare to seeing someone on the street that you find to be pretty or handsome?

Reduced to its simplest form, porn is all about looking. Porn is all about desire. Reduced to its simply form, cosmetics and fashion is all about the need to look good, to be noticed, to be desired. They are the flip side of the same coin. Everything thing else you've said here is highly subjective.

 

Some men also put effort into their appearance, and most of the time when people do this, it isn't because they want to be ogled.

Indeed they do just like some women also look at porn. But 'some' against 'many' is an argument that never flies with JS so its not going to fly with me either.

 

How is that in any way the same as a man masturbating to an objectified image of a person made to fit to their every sexual fantasy? When men use porn, much more occurs than what could be compared to simply "looking" at someone.

Men can look at porn without masturbating and men look at women in general, all the time. They are all one and the same.

 

I think what AO fails to understand is that the fixation and addiction of porn with so many men is their own problem, and not women's problem.

If women are looking for help then I'll help them. I'm here to talk more than just gender politics or self-interest Des. The same can't be said for just about everyone else here, you included.

 

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[A O]

Because I know that if I say anything to him about it then I close up the openness we have about it right now and that means more to be than airing my negative viewpoint about it. What the hell good would that do? He, like most guys, would likely just crack it up to a female insecurity and then he'd close up completely. I know what his fetishes are and we talk frankly about porn in general.. I don't want to lose that. If I thought it would do any good I would say something but I really see no point.

Makes perfect sense to me.

So you can't bring up a subject that matters to you a heck of a lot, a heck of a lot because you're afraid that'll destroy the openness you believe you have. Well, guess what - you don't have openness at all!!

 

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