What Would You Do.....

[crazycatlady]

I am not offended by Dex's analogy. I also understand what he means that though a marriage can be recovered and even healthy, it isn't quite the same. There is a different expectation. I don't believe he thinks all spouses who choose to stay are stupid. Dex I get what you mean.

 

He is flat out saying affairs total the marriage. I disagree. Totalled is totalled and that is what he keeps saying. He says sure totaled can be fixed but its not worth it. You didn't save your marriage, of course you would agree.

 

But its a black and white view of a very gray field. Especially for those of us who are recovering our marriages.

 

And no my marriage won't be the same. But it wouldn't be the same after any crisis no matter what the crisis was - job loss, health issue, another child, death in the family etc etc etc. LIFE is not static. To expect it to be static is silly. It doesn't however mean it can't be better then it was before. Or stronger. Or even more fullfilling.

[bentnotbroken]

He is flat out saying affairs total the marriage. I disagree. Totalled is totalled and that is what he keeps saying. He says sure totaled can be fixed but its not worth it. You didn't save your marriage, of course you would agree.

 

But its a black and white view of a very gray field. Especially for those of us who are recovering our marriages.

 

And no my marriage won't be the same. But it wouldn't be the same after any crisis no matter what the crisis was - job loss, health issue, another child, death in the family etc etc etc. LIFE is not static. To expect it to be static is silly. It doesn't however mean it can't be better then it was before. Or stronger. Or even more fullfilling.

 

 

I think marriages can be recovered. Yes, it is entirely possible. Owl is a prime example along with Spark and several others. But is it ever going to be 100% trust again? I think that is all Dex is saying. The analogy about a car being totaled is perfect if you understand the concept of totaling out cars. Sometimes it is a damage that can and will be repaired but there is something just a little off. Other times it will cost more to fix than the vehicle is worth, but we fix it for sentimental reasons. Sometimes it is totaled to be sold at auction for a new owner. Other times there is structural damage and there is no recovery.

 

Yes I do believe it can be better...only if you bury the dead relationship and start again building a new foundation that was stronger than the first. For me it is black and white. I don't' make my life complicated with the gray. And as far as saving my marriage, there was nothing to save. He was a serial cheater who had neglected to tell me so that I could have made the choice for myself if I wanted to remain in the farce and be exposed to diseases and crazy ow. I finally got control over my life and began to live it.

[crazycatlady]

I think marriages can be recovered. Yes, it is entirely possible. Owl is a prime example along with Spark and several others. But is it ever going to be 100% trust again? I think that is all Dex is saying. The analogy about a car being totaled is perfect if you understand the concept of totaling out cars. Sometimes it is a damage that can and will be repaired but there is something just a little off. Other times it will cost more to fix than the vehicle is worth, but we fix it for sentimental reasons. Sometimes it is totaled to be sold at auction for a new owner. Other times there is structural damage and there is no recovery.

 

Yes I do believe it can be better...only if you bury the dead relationship and start again building a new foundation that was stronger than the first. For me it is black and white. I don't' make my life complicated with the gray. And as far as saving my marriage, there was nothing to save. He was a serial cheater who had neglected to tell me so that I could have made the choice for myself if I wanted to remain in the farce and be exposed to diseases and crazy ow. I finally got control over my life and began to live it.

 

Dex is saying no marriage is worth saving. That while it could be saved none are worth it. This is BULLS***. I don't buy the analogy of the car being totaled. I think it belittles all spouses who are in the process or who have recovered their marriages. I think those who have recovered wouldn't say their marriages are 'a little off'. Some even say their marriages are better. The haven't scaped it and started over.

 

Its more like a solidly build house, a house with a good solid foundation, a good solid frame, but was neglected, so the porch is caving in, there might be holes in the wall. But the bones of the house are solid, and with hard work, time and effort that house can be repaired and made even stronger. Marriages aren't cars not even meant to last forever, marriages are houses. Solid and strong when taken care of, and some, when damaged or neglected, can be repaired to even better then before, while some should be raised to the ground and something else built.

 

I personally don't like to live in a black and white world. I prefer the shadows and the gray that bring the stark to life and builds interest. That is my choice. I'm not telling others they have to live it. All I am is disputing the idea that it can never be right again. Not your choice, but it is many other's choice and not for anyone but them to decide.

[bentnotbroken]

We see things differently. I understand what Dex was trying to say. House, car, whatever they are all inanimate objects that we used to compare something that is in constant change.

[crazycatlady]

We see things differently. I understand what Dex was trying to say. House, car, whatever they are all inanimate objects that we used to compare something that is in constant change.

 

Part of why you see things differently is because you did not recover your marriage, or try. In your mind and his, its not worth it. In many others, it is. But because its not worth it in your mind, you assume it would not be as good, or it will be missing something, or lacking, or never as good as it was before. And yours given the serial cheating and how you felt etc, would have been that way. I'm not saying you should have tried, or that you gave up too easily or anything like that. I'm not a part of your former marriage and would never say what you should or should not have done.

 

The problem is both you and Dex don't see from the side of those of us who do stay and recover. He belittles the efforts to save, he claims it will never be as good and you agreed with his assessment. There is a presumtion on the walk away side to say it will never recover, or if it recovers it won't be as good, or will cost more then its worth and something will always be "off". That is what I'm objecting to. He has no idea. No one can except the two people in that particular marriage have any idea. It is not, and never will be, a one size fit all answer and to presume to say otherwise is at best wrong, and at worst insulting and belittling on either side (stay or walk) which ever is the opposite opinion of the one being touted as correct.

 

CCL

[bentnotbroken]

Part of why you see things differently is because you did not recover your marriage, or try. In your mind and his, its not worth it. In many others, it is. But because its not worth it in your mind, you assume it would not be as good, or it will be missing something, or lacking, or never as good as it was before. And yours given the serial cheating and how you felt etc, would have been that way. I'm not saying you should have tried, or that you gave up too easily or anything like that. I'm not a part of your former marriage and would never say what you should or should not have done.

 

The problem is both you and Dex don't see from the side of those of us who do stay and recover. He belittles the efforts to save, he claims it will never be as good and you agreed with his assessment. There is a presumption on the walk away side to say it will never recover, or if it recovers it won't be as good, or will cost more then its worth and something will always be "off". That is what I'm objecting to. He has no idea. No one can except the two people in that particular marriage have any idea. It is not, and never will be, a one size fit all answer and to presume to say otherwise is at best wrong, and at worst insulting and belittling on either side (stay or walk) which ever is the opposite opinion of the one being touted as correct.

 

CCL

 

 

Actually I do see it from the side of those who stay. I have watched family members, very good friends and others who have stayed and went on to have healthy strong admirable relationships. They put every ounce of themselves into it. They evaluated themselves and their relationship and found the things that worked and the things that did not. They cried, laughed and fought for what they believed could be a better life together. They came to the brink more than once. One or both of them felt that they couldn't go on, but each and ever time they found a reason to keep moving forward....together.

 

There was a stripping to the bone of each person. Each was naked and had nothing to hide behind. They had to face those issues that threatened their marriage in the first place and resulted in the choice of an affiars(s). Me choosing not to remain in an abusive relationship didn't render me brain damaged or skeptical of all successful relationships. I believe good people who love each other and are truly remorseful can and do recover their marriages.

 

Fighting for an marriage is to be commended and respected...if both partners have all the info and have made the choice to fight. I don't think anyone is foolish who wants makes that choice.

[crazycatlady]

Then Bent, you don't agree with Dex. Not really.

[bentnotbroken]

Then Bent, you don't agree with Dex. Not really.

 

 

Thank you for telling me what I am thinking.

[crazycatlady]

Thank you for telling me what I am thinking.

 

I didn't say what you are thinking. I am just pointing out that you can't believe its worth it or you can't agree with Dex. You said for some its worth it, ergo you can't agree with Dex. If you agree with Dex, then at some level you don't believe those who have recovered their marriage made a good choice and they would have been better off leaving them.

 

My issue was always with Dex's assertion that it is never the right choice to recover a marraige, and even if its attempted something is always wrong there after. I disagree with this assertion.

[bentnotbroken]

I didn't say what you are thinking. I am just pointing out that you can't believe its worth it or you can't agree with Dex. You said for some its worth it, ergo you can't agree with Dex. If you agree with Dex, then at some level you don't believe those who have recovered their marriage made a good choice and they would have been better off leaving them.

 

My issue was always with Dex's assertion that it is never the right choice to recover a marraige, and even if its attempted something is always wrong there after. I disagree with this assertion.

 

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree because it is clear that you have a view of Dex (and maybe me) that is fixed and set in concrete. Be blessed.

[NoIDidn't]

CCL and Bent

 

For what its worth, I can see what Bent and Dexter are saying. I do think its kind of insulting to say that the BS that stays is stupid, but I totally (ha ha) get the car analogy. And its almost true. A totalled car is generally not fixed and given/sold to someone else. Its scrapped for parts not damaged in the accident. But a fixed car is not as good as new, nor is it better. Mechanical parts just don't work like that. (LOL, I know I'm taking it too far)

 

The marriage was damaged, but not totalled. And it is never the same. Even a successfully reconciled marriage is never the same after being hit with infidelity. To say otherwise is to be in deep denial. Over what? I'm not sure.

 

My M is reconciled, but it will never be the same. We are stronger together now, but I will never forget and neither will he. While I would like fidelity in our marriage from the both of us, I will not be shocked at either of us not living up to that ideal ever again. This doesn't mean that I will stay with him if he cheats again. It just means that my innocence is lost. The naivete is gone. And I am better for it. My M and my expectations of it are better.

 

You can't get this out of a previously wrecked car that is once again drivable. Even if you replaced all the parts with new and improved ones.

[JustJoe]

CCL and BNB, repaired is NEVER better than "new". This should be the main point of any infidelity thread, that an affair is going to damage a marriage beyond the original axis of the original marriage vows. And NOTHING will call back time, because life only works one way, forward................CIK, this very thing has happened to me numerous times, and my WS, if she is with her H, will act like he isn't even there. She has kissed me with him watching. She has zero respect for him, at all. Another reason, I ended it.

[crazycatlady]

Then we will have to agree to disagree because it is clear that you have a view of Dex (and maybe me) that is fixed and set in concrete. Be blessed.

 

Dexter yes, you, not really, which is why this kinda bothered me because while I might not agree with you I have always respected your posts. Dexter is very against recovering a marriage. If you didn't know this, then you aren't reading his posts. I know better then to read his posts, but I don't believe in putting people on ignore so I sometimes get taken in.

 

CCL and Bent

 

For what its worth, I can see what Bent and Dexter are saying. I do think its kind of insulting to say that the BS that stays is stupid, but I totally (ha ha) get the car analogy. And its almost true. A totalled car is generally not fixed and given/sold to someone else. Its scrapped for parts not damaged in the accident. But a fixed car is not as good as new, nor is it better. Mechanical parts just don't work like that. (LOL, I know I'm taking it too far)

 

The marriage was damaged, but not totalled. And it is never the same. Even a successfully reconciled marriage is never the same after being hit with infidelity. To say otherwise is to be in deep denial. Over what? I'm not sure.

 

My M is reconciled, but it will never be the same. We are stronger together now, but I will never forget and neither will he. While I would like fidelity in our marriage from the both of us, I will not be shocked at either of us not living up to that ideal ever again. This doesn't mean that I will stay with him if he cheats again. It just means that my innocence is lost. The naivete is gone. And I am better for it. My M and my expectations of it are better.

 

You can't get this out of a previously wrecked car that is once again drivable. Even if you replaced all the parts with new and improved ones.

 

I just don't get the car. I admit I'm not a car person, but I don't think this is about not being a car person. I just don't believe it is a correct one. If I have to go with an analogy, I have to say my house one is the better one. My marriage won't be the same, no....but I fully believe its going to be better. if I didn't think it was going to be better, I wouldn't bother. I truly believe its worth the effort, he's a good man who really screwed up. BUt honestly, the money issues we had 7 years ago was harder to get through then his affair. But that's a whole different topic.

 

But the thing is, Dex wasn't just saying it was a car wreck. He was saying its totaled and not worth repairing. Not disputing it could be repaired but implying that repairing it was stupid and costly. ANd flat out said that just dumping and replacing was the better way to go.

 

CCL and BNB, repaired is NEVER better than "new". This should be the main point of any infidelity thread, that an affair is going to damage a marriage beyond the original axis of the original marriage vows. And NOTHING will call back time, because life only works one way, forward................CIK, this very thing has happened to me numerous times, and my WS, if she is with her H, will act like he isn't even there. She has kissed me with him watching. She has zero respect for him, at all. Another reason, I ended it.

 

JJ, i disagree....affairs happen for many different reasons...and depending on the reason, it depends on if the repair can be better then the new...If I did not fully believe that our repair would not be better then the old, I probably wouldn't bother. But I know that's not the case. I know the truth is, the other side is a stronger, more solid marriage then what it was before his affair.

 

My marriage vows were said as a young adult, without full understanding of what I was doing. Right or wrong, that is the case. In 13 years we are different people who have gone through trials, struggles, upheavels, highs and lows, disagreements, fights, disrespect, pain, love, happiness, miricles, bliss, passion, lust, closeness, highs, enjoyment, thrills. We aren't the young people with little idea of the real world. We aren't the new parents overwhelmed by a new sleepness baby. We have changed from those innocents who married, who laughed through the whole wedding ceremony, who ran away and eloped because a wedding was too hard to arrange between our different familys.

 

After everything we have been through, this is nothing and certainly not a totaled car.

 

CCL

[JustJoe]

CCL, I guess this begs the question, is what you have now, a "remodeling", of the old marriage, or a new marriage to an old spouse? If there was infidelity in my marriage, and I knew about it, THAT marriage would be history, but if she proved herself to me and I could see that that type of behavior was over and done with, then we maybe could start again, who knows?

[JustJoe]

Sorry about the T/J, CIK, I was just answering CCL.

[JustJoe]

CIK, Also, EVERY TIME!! I have seen my EX-MW and her H, SHE has come up to me and touched me. I have never initiated contact, and if left alone , ignored them.

[Samantha0905]

Just have to say this is the first post in weeks that has made me belly laugh! Thanks for that.

 

Thank you!

 

For what it's worth, I think "repaired" can be better than new. I also think people can't forgive and forget by themselves. They have to rely on a higher Authority for that to occur. I'm happy for those people who are able to work through an affair and hold onto their marriage.

[pureinheart]

BULLS***. You have no idea. Many people recover their marriages after an affair. Just because you can't forgive, just because you don't accept failure in others, and just because you don't have it in you to work hard at something doesn't mean others are the same way.

 

This is disrespectful to every fBS here, its telling them they are stupid for trying to fix their marriages. I think its stupid to say absolutely its not worth saving. I think it belittles your own commitment. Hows that for rash judgements of situations you aren't a part of?

 

CCL

 

Hi CCL,

 

In bold is where it's all at. Certainly I realise that there are other factors concerning the decision to D...everybodies sitch is different...

 

I see a lot of critical communication in LS as a whole, concerning this matter...your souse will fail at some point in some way. It's unfortunate, although it's a fact of life. Everyone will fail us at some point in time, it's part of our human condition.

[White Flower]

Say something very casual such as: "So, have you f*cked anyone interesting lately?"

Ha ha ha, I don't know you all that well but this one was funny.

 

If I ended things badly with MM I would probably say this to him. And he'd probably blush.

 

I D'd my H so I don't have to worry about the other question.

 

If I were with someone new I would introduce him as exMM. Yeah, 'the one'.

Edited April 19, 2010 by White Flower

[pureinheart]

BULLS***. You have no idea. Many people recover their marriages after an affair. Just because you can't forgive, just because you don't accept failure in others, and just because you don't have it in you to work hard at something doesn't mean others are the same way.

 

This is disrespectful to every fBS here, its telling them they are stupid for trying to fix their marriages. I think its stupid to say absolutely its not worth saving. I think it belittles your own commitment. Hows that for rash judgements of situations you aren't a part of?

 

CCL

 

Hi CCL,

 

In bold is where it's all at. Certainly I realise that there are other factors concerning the decision to D...everybodies sitch is different...

 

I see a lot of critical communication in LS as a whole, concerning this matter...your souse will fail at some point in some way. It's unfortunate, although it's a fact of life. Everyone will fail us at some point in time, it's part of our human condition.

[crazycatlady]

CCL, I guess this begs the question, is what you have now, a "remodeling", of the old marriage, or a new marriage to an old spouse? If there was infidelity in my marriage, and I knew about it, THAT marriage would be history, but if she proved herself to me and I could see that that type of behavior was over and done with, then we maybe could start again, who knows?

 

Actually, Joe, in my case, its almost a new marriage to an old spouse, due to changes we have made. But my situation is not typical.

 

To get back on topic, my H would not need to introduce me to the OW.

[confusedinkansas]

you said your H didn't know the complete truth about your A in some of your previous posts....one of them being you left your M to be with OM...

That is about as incorrect of a statement as they come. I never said I left my marriage for the other man. Because I didn't. My affair was long over before I left my husband. Our separation had nothing at all to do with infidelity. And, I have always said that.

 

Did I have contact with the other man during the separation time? Yes. Did we start our affair back up? No - He had a girlfriend at that time. No point in starting something back up with a serial cheater at that point.

He's a good guy! I'll always say that. He's a loyal friend. Do I want him back on any level? NO! Do I want to have any contact at all with him? NO - He's attempted several times. I have never responded.

 

anyways if your H already knows about your A, how come he needs an intro from you....just curious

 

He knows about the affair (the first round) - He also knows that I had contact with him during the separation. However, He has never met the Other Man.

 

god help the guy who married you

He loves me very much! Thanks for your concern though.

 

Of the other analagies here -

"The marriage was damaged NOT TOTALLED!! " Thanks NoIDidn't....That's how I look at things too. Damaged, Yep - But not beyond repair.

Which we've done!! - Better than it was before! But, as I have said in my other posts........

Our marriage had other issues. WORSE issues than just the infidelity to get past. We did.....AND....We will be celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary this summer in Mexico!! Whooping it up! Enjoying each other!

 

 

:lmao:Funny how one question.......What Would You Do....Has so gotten SO blown out of proportion. Guess I shouldn't be that surprised.

Thanks to those of you that did get this off track. Much appreciated:rolleyes: as usual.

Edited April 19, 2010 by confusedinkansas

[Dexter Morgan]

BULLS***. You have no idea. Many people recover their marriages after an affair. Just because you can't forgive, just because you don't accept failure in others, and just because you don't have it in you to work hard at something doesn't mean others are the same way.

 

This is disrespectful to every fBS here, its telling them they are stupid for trying to fix their marriages.

 

No, those are your words, not mine. I'm not saying they are stupid. they can "recover" their marriages and "survive".

 

But do you really think that the BS doesn't have the crap that the WS did to them in the back of their mind?

 

They may come to a point where they don't think about it on a daily basis, but if you think the BS doesn't think about what happened and there isn't a little pain involved from time to time, you are fooling yourself.

 

All I'm saying is that people think that everything comes up roses. Even if it recovers as you would say, there are still thorns there.

 

 

 

I think its stupid to say absolutely its not worth saving. I think it belittles your own commitment.

 

apparently the WS didn't care too much about the "committment".

[Dexter Morgan]

He is flat out saying affairs total the marriage. I disagree.

 

you glossed over the part that even a totalled car can be fixed, therefore no longer being totalled......just not the same as before and with its flaws.

 

 

And no my marriage won't be the same.

 

that was my point.

 

 

But it wouldn't be the same after any crisis no matter what the crisis was - job loss, health issue, another child, death in the family etc etc etc.

 

you are going to compare tragedies and bad times through nobody's fault of their own, to direct betrayal and loss of trust?

 

those things you listed above don't involve a loss of trust in someone who was suppose to be faithful to you.

[Dexter Morgan]

Dex is saying no marriage is worth saving.

 

for me, of course I'm saying that. I don't want a life with a cheater.

 

I believe that is the way it should be for a majority of people. there are exceptions to the rule, of which you claim to be...and thats all fine and dandy. People have to decide what is right for themselves.

 

doesn't mean I still don't have an opinion on it.

 

and the fact that you took WAY TOO MUCH offense to what I said is all too telling, however. if I am wrong and you are in a much happier place with your wayward spouse, then I'd think you would simply tell me, "I can tell you from experience that you are wrong Dexter".

 

Because afterall, if you were happy in your situation, you wouldn't be angry about what I said. afterall, you would obviously know better.....right?

 

 

I personally don't like to live in a black and white world.

 

so don't, its your choice.

 

 

All I am is disputing the idea that it can never be right again.

 

No, thats not "all" you are doing. again, your rabid offense to what I said tells me something isn't right.