mem11363 Posted April 14, 2010 Posted April 14, 2010 Sam, Agree that your H is showing genuine effort here. As a male - I sincerely do not think he is trying to trap you. I do however think that even though it is not a trap, his request is a perfect example of the problem. Meaning that he is certainly able to sit down and make a complete list of changes that would either: a. make him a better person b. make him a better spouse/make you a happier spouse c. both A and B I don't see his request as "jerky or bad" I just feel that somehow he and his counselor are turning this into an exercise of "what does Sam require H to do." And I don't see that producing a good outcome. To get to a good outcome it seems like H needs to step up and say: I need to stop ducking/dodging and avoiding uncomfortable conversations. I need to do: ..., ..., and ... to have a good marriage. As for him picking someone who knows the two of you - well that cuts both ways. He has to tell this man he sees regularly that his marriage got so bad his wife moved out and had an affair. And that she isn't sleeping with him and hasn't for a long time. This is big stuff for a guy. I think you ought to give him some leeway here as to his choice of counselor. I understand why you wish it was someone else and I also believe your H is doing the best he can. He is WAY out of his comfort zone, maybe it helps that it is with a man who he trusts/respects. I don't know. It's why my assignment from his counselor bothered me a bit. Shouldn't he be sitting down and trying to figure out for himself what he might want to improve or change for him? Maybe he wouldn't really change anything save for it being his effort to save the marriage. I don't meant that in any way ugly -- if he is going to counseling because he knows I'm not happy and knows he's not communicating well -- that's a good thing and shows a great deal of effort on his part. I think he stepped way out of his comfort zone in doing that. I think he's heard me all along and has just been at a loss as to what to do or how to behave differently. Sometimes I have gone along with the flow, but other times I've had major speaking up times as in when we went to marriage counseling the first time and when I moved out to live in the apartment for six months. I definitely think if I hadn't been waving red flags he certainly would not have gone to counseling. I think I've said before as long as things went along smoothly just as they are -- including sex each Saturday night -- he'd be fine. He's a creature of routine and habit.
Luv2dance Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 I agree with Mem on that they aren't trying to trap you, but there could be a better way to get results! Maybe he wouldn't really change anything save for it being his effort to save the marriage. I don't meant that in any way ugly -- if he is going to counseling because he knows I'm not happy and knows he's not communicating well -- that's a good thing and shows a great deal of effort on his part. I think he stepped way out of his comfort zone in doing that. Well, I would say you are exactly right about this! My therapist actually mentioned that MH is stepping out of his comfort zone to make an effort to save our marriage. BUT, he didn't do anything 6 yrs ago when I brought up issues b/c he didn't feel enough pain at that time. She says that b/c of the way he has learned to control emotions (seeming unemotional) that the pain had to become severe in order for the change to come out. As far as not turning someone into a different person I mentioned this also b/c I don't want to change who he is just to make me happy. Her analogy was that everyone has a tool box with their habits and personality traits that they keep with them all the time. You might be a hammer person and always go to the hammer to get the job done, but that doesn't mean you dont know how to use the screwdriver. If the job requires a change in tools then you can adjust and still be the same person but learning new ways of doing things. Again the growing and changing thing...made sense to me. The question then becomes IF they change some things, will that create a change in the feelings/marriage...this is what I am still unsure of. I guess time will tell. Glad to hear your sessions are still going well!!
2sunny Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 from my experience the person sitting in front of the counselor is the one who gets the assignment. why would the counselor ask YOU what you wanted changed about your H? that's backwards and ridiculous. the only one we are to change is ourselves. to even hand such a list directly to H is hurtful and unproductive. i would hope if you had an issue with H - you would simply speak directly with him... not stoop to passing a note to his counselor... is this grade school? i'd call the counselor and express disapproval at the approach. YOUR H should be asking HIMSELF how HE can change to make relationships look happier... it is not your position to point out things he's most likely already aware of. this counselor is way off base.
troggleputty Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 Sam, Agree that your H is showing genuine effort here. As a male - I sincerely do not think he is trying to trap you. Trap her into what? The request from the h's counselor is simple and straightforward. The counselor gave the h a homework assignment which was for the h to actually ask samantha how she thought the h needed to improve. IOW the h's counselor told samantha's husband to actually communicate with her. The h's counselor told her h to actually seek out samantha's direct input. Why is this wrong, a trap, an incorrect counseling methodology, etc etc etc? The reason the counselor gave this assignment to samantha's husband, presumably, is because when the counselor actually asked samantha's h what samantha thought was wrong with the marriage, the h was probably unable to answer him. This has been samantha's complaint: her h never listens to her input about the marriage, disdains her opinion, etc. On the other hand samantha's response to this very logical and simple request has been extremely interesting, as reflected in this thread--basically her attitude has been to deem a perfectly straightforward request for a "list of grievances" as some kind of a trap, a threat, something to dance around. She does have a number of very straightforward complaints and for some reason doesn't want to express them in a straightforward, clear, concise manner. This is part of the pattern of the entire marriage which samantha has particpated in. The h's counselor is trying to intervene to break the pattern of non-communication. The way that is done is to: communicate. And if it is in writing, then 1) samantha 2) her h and 3) her h's counselor know what samantha's concerns are, the h can't distort/misinterpret them to the counselor; and then the counselor, finally, can actually begin to work with samantha's husband on addressing the issues she has in the marriage. What are some of samantha's complaints? 1. The marital sex is bad, always has been bad, and now is non-existent. 2. Apparently she regards her h as something of a religious fanatic and doesn't share his religious, social, or ethical beliefs, to a greater or lesser extent. She resents the church's intervention in their personal life and she resents her h's choice of this particular counselor. 3. The h denigrates samantha in a manner offensive to her, such as at the golf course. There are probably numerous other things that she could specifically complaint about in such a list. But she doesn't want to. Why not? That's her issue, not the h's. So what if the h can come up with his own list of ways he thinks he should improve. That's meaningless if his list doesn't address the issues that samantha has. That's a total evasion of the issue, which is a lack of communication between samantha and her husband which they both have been responsible for throughout the marriage. I do however think that even though it is not a trap, his request is a perfect example of the problem. Meaning that he is certainly able to sit down and make a complete list of changes that would either: a. make him a better person b. make him a better spouse/make you a happier spouse c. both A and B No. This attitude, i.e. that the request for a list by samantha of her issues/grievances should be disregarded, is the problem. It is a perfect example of samantha's failure to take responsibility for her needs in the marriage. Everything remains the h's fault. Even when he specifically asks her for a written list of her complaints about the marriage/suggestions as to how he could improve, she resents him for the very act of making the request (albeit at the prodding of his counselor). Is the husband supposed to be a mind-reader? Seriously. What if he says that he thinks he could be a better spouse by playing more golf and buying her another car? I mean the very notion that, when a spouse is asked by their spouse to specifically express what is bothering them, the first spouse should be told to take what amounts to a wild guess, is an absurdity. But this absurdity is at the heart of the problem in this marriage. No, samantha is not "obligated" to cooperate with her husband's "homework assigment." But if she refuses to tell him point-blank what issues she actually has in the marriage, in a clear, straight forward, and detailed manner, and in a written form so that her h's counselor can actually see her complaints unfiltered, and in her own words, what exactly is she trying to accomplish? This is so obvious that I am absolutely astounded that most of the people in this thread are so completely misinterpreting what this "homework assignment" is supposed to be about. The h's counselor told him to "get it in writing" from the source--from samantha, in HER own words--precisely because the h is completely clueless. The only person to give him a clue is samantha herself. I don't see his request as "jerky or bad" I just feel that somehow he and his counselor are turning this into an exercise of "what does Sam require H to do." LOL, no, they're not "turning" it into that; that's precisely "what it is." What does samanatha actually want her husband to do? This is not about sitting around writing wish lists. It's about trying to set up a program so that her h can modify his behavior so it is more satisfactory to samantha. OK we know samantha thinks her husband is sexually unattractive and inadequate. That much is clear. Does she want or expect him to do anything about it? If so, what would that be (i.e. sex therapy etc.)? If she doesn't want or expect him to do anything about it, then she needs to either accept it or not accept it, but she does need to stop denigrating him for something that she is not asking him to try to change. If she doesn't want him to actually do anything to make their sex life more satisfactory, then she needs to face up to the fact that her dissatisfaction is 100% on her, and stop blaming her husband for not being something that he never was; and not changing when she hasn't told him how she wants him to change. Similarly, her resentment of his religious involvement. She needs to express that and also how she expects him to change that aspect of his personality, if that's what she wants. Obviously the problem she faces is he's always been this way, why is she bringing this up after 26 years? Be that as it may, what is the h supposed to do if she doesn't tell him what she wants him to do? And I don't see that producing a good outcome. To get to a good outcome it seems like H needs to step up and say: I need to stop ducking/dodging and avoiding uncomfortable conversations. I need to do: ..., ..., and ... to have a good marriage. LOL. He wasn't ducking the uncomfortable conversation; he was seeking it out--he specifically asked samantha to identify, in writing, what she was displeased with and what she expects him to do to fix things. That's not dodging or ducking, that's facing up to the problem. It's samantha who's dodging and ducking. Samantha has been asked to provide a written list of what's bothering her about the marriage and about her husband. How can it get any more straightforward than that? As for him picking someone who knows the two of you - well that cuts both ways. He has to tell this man he sees regularly that his marriage got so bad his wife moved out and had an affair. And that she isn't sleeping with him and hasn't for a long time. This is big stuff for a guy. I think you ought to give him some leeway here as to his choice of counselor. Actually it's more significant than that. Samantha attempts to portray her h as the "controlling entity" in their marriage. In reality it's probably the other way around, to a large extent. She actually thinks it's her prerogative to have a "veto power" over who the h does and does not choose as his counselor. No, it's not! Why would she think she has any right to criticize his choice of a counselor? What she actually seems to be concerned about is the fact that since the counselor knows them through the church "word might get around" of the facts of her affair. She wants to keep things anonymous. (Needless to say she didn't consult with her h about her choice of counselor nor her choice of AP. The arrogance of her attitude is frankly astounding.) It's absolutely astounding to me that after 26 years of marriage samantha acts surprised that her h is apparently an involved southern baptist. Did she not know he was a southern baptist when they got married or for the past 26 years? Did she ever tell him she really didn't believe in all that religious nonsense etc.? Why did she marry a religious man if she didn't agree with his religious beliefs? She doesn't abide by their beliefs, yet she's very concerned if anyone in the church community finds out about the affair. So evidently this affair is still a big secret among the community they're involved with. I understand why you wish it was someone else and I also believe your H is doing the best he can. He is WAY out of his comfort zone, maybe it helps that it is with a man who he trusts/respects. She wishes it was someone else because it sounds like her h actually has chosen an effective counselor. He's instructed her h to actually communicate with samantha and once and for all get her to express herself, in writing, as to the problems she sees in the marriage and specifically the ways the h could improve himself and the marriage. That's frightening, because what if samantha actually puts together that list, then they could work together to actually try to fix what's wrong. Scary if you really don't want to fix what's wrong.
troggleputty Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 from my experience the person sitting in front of the counselor is the one who gets the assignment. Her husband did get an assignment. It was to get samantha to express, in writing, her complaints about the marriage. When you want to actually try to get something accomplished, and not just gripe about it endlessly, it helps to make a "to do" list. This is a standard principle of "highly effective people." why would the counselor ask YOU what you wanted changed about your H? LOL. Unbelievable. You don't understand why her h's counselor wanted to know what issues samantha has with her h, and with their marriage? The way normal people communicate with each other to find out what they want, is to ask them. In this case it is samantha who expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage resulting in her affair. So yes--astounding as it may seem to you, to many others, and to samantha herself, actually asking her what's bothering her is very reasonable, and in fact, it's essential. that's backwards and ridiculous. the only one we are to change is ourselves. Well if samantha is unwilling to tell her h how she wants him to change then she loses all right to complaint about ANYTHING he does ever again. He would be fully justified (according to you) to be the sole arbiter of what his behavior in the marriage should be. to even hand such a list directly to H is hurtful and unproductive. i would hope if you had an issue with H - you would simply speak directly with him... not stoop to passing a note to his counselor... is this grade school? i'd call the counselor and express disapproval at the approach. Obviously samantha does not have to cooperate with the h's homework assignment. But everything you are saying is utter nonsense. If samantha has complaints it is her job to express them. If she does not want to express them, even when specifically requested as part of her h's counseling, then it's 100% on her. YOUR H should be asking HIMSELF how HE can change to make relationships look happier... it is not your position to point out things he's most likely already aware of. this counselor is way off base. You think so? What you seem to be saying here is that her h has carte blanche to do whatever he wants to do...or nothing at all...and that would be perfectly OK with samantha. Is that what you really mean?
califnan Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 Samantha, On the lighter side it kind of reminds me of when you send your tv or computer out for repair service and the technitian fills out a work order noting problems you have noticed before he goes through it .. But maybe your husband has already told him the problems he has noticed in the marriage and that he is there because he wishes to make the marriage better. And then the counselor is asking for your input - to be sure that he has everything from both partners ..
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 Samantha, I think you are free to develop yourself more .. Here is a sampling of the woman's wedding vows: Love, Cherish, Submit, Follow, grow into one. Hmmm. As long as he submits and follows and grows into one with me. Sam' date=' I find this a very odd request from his counselor. I almost see it as a trap. I would think that the better thing to request is that he send your H home to have a heart-to-heart with you and have your husband list what he heard you say. Have you validate what he wrote on the list and perhaps comment about where you thought and why you thought his words and actions didn't sit right for you. Bring that list back to the counselor and work from there. Who is doing the work here? If you've had these convo's before, he should be able to reiterate where your concerns are. I just think it's quite one-sided. Good luck and I hope it works for your sake![/quote'] I did also. Me too. My suspicious nature. I love your idea for what should have been done. That's some real communication. I may copy that for his counselor.
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 I read through the posts and I agree with this. Sounds like you have a great therapist Samantha I am thinking of starting IC myself. Good to see you back here and providing the informative feedback. Thanks so much. It really has been helpful to me so far. Good luck to you.
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 (edited) Sam, Agree that your H is showing genuine effort here. As a male - I sincerely do not think he is trying to trap you. Yes, my husband isn't. He's trying to communicate. I do however think that even though it is not a trap, his request is a perfect example of the problem. Meaning that he is certainly able to sit down and make a complete list of changes that would either: a. make him a better person b. make him a better spouse/make you a happier spouse c. both A and BYes, yes, yes. I don't see his request as "jerky or bad" I just feel that somehow he and his counselor are turning this into an exercise of "what does Sam require H to do." And I don't see that producing a good outcome. To get to a good outcome it seems like H needs to step up and say: I need to stop ducking/dodging and avoiding uncomfortable conversations. I need to do: ..., ..., and ... to have a good marriage. Right. He's not a jerk or bad. But that is a control issue thing in my opinion that is prevalent in these types of men. I'm sorry for generalizing. But it IS true. It's a way to delegate the emotional issues away from themselves. Women are "emotional" -- women need to speak up as to these matters. Whatever the woman says is needed in these situations, the men will perfunctorily perform. WTH? As for him picking someone who knows the two of you - well that cuts both ways. He has to tell this man he sees regularly that his marriage got so bad his wife moved out and had an affair. And that she isn't sleeping with him and hasn't for a long time. This is big stuff for a guy. I think you ought to give him some leeway here as to his choice of counselor. I understand why you wish it was someone else and I also believe your H is doing the best he can. He is WAY out of his comfort zone, maybe it helps that it is with a man who he trusts/respects.I do give him some leeway (I'm so happy my husband connects to someone as a friend)-- but this is a person I knew and a person who was supposed to be my pastor -- now it is a person who is my husband's friend and his ally and someone he tells things.... I'm on the outside, unless I choose to tell this pastor things. And I do not. He has not extended that "tell me" branch in my direction. He did extend it to my husband. My husband told him because he asked. He did not ask me. Heaven forbid he cross that male/female boundary. If I'm being unfair, I will let you know when he does ask. I can tell you one thing. I won't allow him to scurry me away into his office for counseling so others won't know I'm there getting counseling. Edited April 15, 2010 by Samantha0905
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 Samantha, On the lighter side it kind of reminds me of when you send your tv or computer out for repair service and the technitian fills out a work order noting problems you have noticed before he goes through it .. But maybe your husband has already told him the problems he has noticed in the marriage and that he is there because he wishes to make the marriage better. And then the counselor is asking for your input - to be sure that he has everything from both partners .. Well, then maybe instead of going to his counselor loudly announcing it was all about him and he didn't want to discuss his marriage -- he should have said -- hey, this is about my marriage.
califnan Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 Well, then maybe instead of going to his counselor loudly announcing it was all about him and he didn't want to discuss his marriage -- he should have said -- hey, this is about my marriage. ------------------------- I would only need counseling if I was married ..
mem11363 Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 Sam, So who are you angry at. Your pastor for allying himself with your H or your H for misrepresenting the type of therapy? Maybe that is partly a commercial decision if your H is a generous contributor to the church. Could this be primarily about money as opposed to some sort of penis power play? So your H is drowning and this man extends a helping hand and he takes it. Are you angry at your H for that, for accepting the offered hand? Or are you angry that H is doing IC and not MC? You know Sam - suddenly - after about a half a year a light bulb went off for me. Your H is flawed and broken and in many ways not half the person you are. But you have tolerated blatantly bs behavior for almost 3 decades now and suddenly have decided you are sick and tired and not going to take it anymore. Let me give you the view from the other side of the table. Totally hurt and confused. Completely lost. It doesn't matter what you have said over your 33 years together what matters is what you have done. And other than for two brief periods of what he likely considers craziness where you moved out, you have gone along to get along. And the consequence of that is a deeply etched behavior pattern that you intensely dislike. But it is YOUR pattern every bit as much as his. He is seeing your pastor. I get that you don't like it. Just as you responded to your XAP when he reached out to you and you were feeling weak, your H responded to someone reaching out to help him when he is feeling abandoned. The underlying thread of humor that was interlaced in many of your prior posts seems to be on holiday. And without it the raw emotion of anger has a lot more edge to it. Angry people tend to have episodes where they see the other persons errors clearly and lose sight of their own. As for the general tone of your comments about men and their sexist ways I will now respond in kind. I agree the t-times and the fact women can't be pastors is ludicrous. Turn the lens around though. Have you gotten a job? Are you looking for one? It is ok that you haven't - but you know your H would rather play golf with a more skilled partner. If you aren't working how can you possibly say you don't have the time to play golf 2 a week for 4 hours each? Yes, my husband isn't. He's trying to communicate. Yes, yes, yes. Right. He's not a jerk or bad. But that is a control issue thing in my opinion that is prevalent in these types of men. I'm sorry for generalizing. But it IS true. It's a way to delegate the emotional issues away from themselves. Women are "emotional" -- women need to speak up as to these matters. Whatever the woman says is needed in these situations, the men will perfunctorily perform. WTH? I do give him some leeway (I'm so happy my husband connects to someone as a friend)-- but this is a person I knew and a person who was supposed to be my pastor -- now it is a person who is my husband's friend and his ally and someone he tells things.... I'm on the outside, unless I choose to tell this pastor things. And I do not. He has not extended that "tell me" branch in my direction. He did extend it to my husband. My husband told him because he asked. He did not ask me. Heaven forbid he cross that male/female boundary. If I'm being unfair, I will let you know when he does ask. I can tell you one thing. I won't allow him to scurry me away into his office for counseling so others won't know I'm there getting counseling.
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 Sam, So who are you angry at. Your pastor for allying himself with your H or your H for misrepresenting the type of therapy? Maybe that is partly a commercial decision if your H is a generous contributor to the church. Could this be primarily about money as opposed to some sort of penis power play? So your H is drowning and this man extends a helping hand and he takes it. Are you angry at your H for that, for accepting the offered hand? Or are you angry that H is doing IC and not MC? I think it's a legitimate response to be very uncomfortable my pastor knows about our sex life. I'd rather him not. I don't mind my husband is getting counseling from a Southern Baptist psychologist other than the fact he may tend to be overly conservative. I don't know yet as I haven't met him. You know Sam - suddenly - after about a half a year a light bulb went off for me. Your H is flawed and broken and in many ways not half the person you are. But you have tolerated blatantly bs behavior for almost 3 decades now and suddenly have decided you are sick and tired and not going to take it anymore. Let me give you the view from the other side of the table. Totally hurt and confused. Completely lost. It doesn't matter what you have said over your 33 years together what matters is what you have done. And other than for two brief periods of what he likely considers craziness where you moved out, you have gone along to get along. And the consequence of that is a deeply etched behavior pattern that you intensely dislike. But it is YOUR pattern every bit as much as his. And I've said that. I accept blame for my part in this situation. I certainly don't think in many ways my husband is half the person I am. He has a whole lot of qualities I admire. He is seeing your pastor. I get that you don't like it. Just as you responded to your XAP when he reached out to you and you were feeling weak, your H responded to someone reaching out to help him when he is feeling abandoned. I suppose so, but I can certainly feel resentful about him choosing to tell our pastor personal things about our sex life. Hey, it's done -- but I'll be resentful if I like. It puts me in the position of feeling even more uncomfortable around this pastor -- but actually -- it's fine with me. I don't want to go to church there anyway. The underlying thread of humor that was interlaced in many of your prior posts seems to be on holiday. And without it the raw emotion of anger has a lot more edge to it. Angry people tend to have episodes where they see the other persons errors clearly and lose sight of their own. Well, I can't always be humorous mem. If there's one thing I'm learning in my counseling sessions it is it is a good thing for me to express my emotions. I don't think I've been unreasonable or overly angry in expressing them. As for the general tone of your comments about men and their sexist ways I will now respond in kind. I agree the t-times and the fact women can't be pastors is ludicrous. Turn the lens around though. Have you gotten a job? Are you looking for one? It is ok that you haven't - but you know your H would rather play golf with a more skilled partner. If you aren't working how can you possibly say you don't have the time to play golf 2 a week for 4 hours each? I believe I discussed some attitudes of Southern Baptist men and also the attitudes I've come across at my husband's country club -- which as I said, tend to be rather archaic and sexist. I did not say all men are sexist. I have not gone out to get a job, but I don't want one at the moment and I don't need one. I may end up working -- I don't know. I don't have time to play golf twice a week for four hours each because I do other things which are of more interest to me. I don't mind at all if my husband plays golf with his male friends. He used to invite me to golf about once a week and even my son pointed out to me he had stopped doing so. I could always golf with my friends if I want to do it several times a week. I enjoy playing golf with my husband as long as he doesn't try to demean me by making it a practice round for him. It's rude. Plain and simple.
califnan Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 Sam, You know Sam - suddenly - after about a half a year a light bulb went off for me. Your H is flawed and broken and in many ways not half the person you are. But you have tolerated blatantly bs behavior for almost 3 decades now and suddenly have decided you are sick and tired and not going to take it anymore. QU0 TE] ---------------------------- Mem. I disagree on this one point. In that you are saying that Samantha's husband is not half the person that she is .. Who is to say that this man is not half the person that Samantha is .. or not half the person that anyone is? The man does childish things like stomping his foot in back of Samantha's chair or hits practice balls while playing golf with her - so what .. Maybe he has closed his mind off to hurts .. But as an accomplished man and one who loves and cherishes his wife, I would not consider him half the person that Samantha is - just because he doesn't express himself..
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 (edited) Sam, You know Sam - suddenly - after about a half a year a light bulb went off for me. Your H is flawed and broken and in many ways not half the person you are. But you have tolerated blatantly bs behavior for almost 3 decades now and suddenly have decided you are sick and tired and not going to take it anymore. ---------------------------- Mem. I disagree on this one point. In that you are saying that Samantha's husband is not half the person that she is .. Who is to say that this man is not half the person that Samantha is .. or not half the person that anyone is? The man does childish things like stomping his foot in back of Samantha's chair or hits practice balls while playing golf with her - so what .. Maybe he has closed his mind off to hurts .. But as an accomplished man and one who loves and cherishes his wife, I would not consider him half the person that Samantha is - just because he doesn't express himself.. That's what I said. I think I made the point in the "affairing down" thread also. In any event, if anything I think my husband has many more admirable qualities than I do -- although it isn't a contest. Edited April 15, 2010 by Samantha0905
califnan Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 That's what I said. I think I made the point in the "affairing down" thread also. In any event, if anything I think my husband has many more admirable qualities than I do -- although it isn't a contest. ----------------- I think the marriage has turned into a contest. But it only has to do with the times that we are living in ..
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 ----------------- I think the marriage has turned into a contest. But it only has to do with the times that we are living in .. Do you mean marriage in general? In any event, I'm leaving this thread and will post again the next time I go to counseling or if anything eventful occurs. I see a certain poster has showed up who makes all sorts of assumptions and embellishments he very loosely bases on things I've actually shared -- other parts he simply makes up to suit his brand of distortion. I'm simply unwilling to put up with the harassment and have no interest in reading his comments back and forth with other members here about MY life. Just in case any of you are unaware of the fact, I do not know this man and he does not know anyone who knows me -- therefore it's quite obvious he takes all sorts of liberties in his posts about my life -- which are unwarranted and unwelcome.
califnan Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 Do you mean marriage in general? QUOTE] -------------------- From what you have said, you and your husband do a lot of things together, such as walking and golfing .. which is good .. But you and your husband grew up together after marriage - but going in different directions .. It almost seems to me, that if you channeled your energies and talents into creative endeavors, or other directions - there wouldn't be so much pressure on the marriage (in the spirit) .. Your expectations of him and the marriage would be lesser .. I think that whether or not it seems so, he has felt the pressure more than it may appear.. I think from things you have said, you are competitive..
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Posted April 15, 2010 (edited) Do you mean marriage in general? QUOTE] -------------------- From what you have said, you and your husband do a lot of things together, such as walking and golfing .. which is good .. But you and your husband grew up together after marriage - but going in different directions .. It almost seems to me, that if you channeled your energies and talents into creative endeavors, or other directions - there wouldn't be so much pressure on the marriage (in the spirit) .. Your expectations of him and the marriage would be lesser .. I think that whether or not it seems so, he has felt the pressure more than it may appear.. I think from things you have said, you are competitive.. I'm sure you're correct. I certainly wish I had already channeled my energies other places. I'm not knocking being a stay at home mom and I loved doing that, but I do wish now -- in retrospect -- I had kept more of myself and developed more interests. It may very well be had there been more self-fulfillment, I would not feel as much of a void. I'm working on that part. It's an adjustment after staying home with my children trying to redirect my sense of purpose. I am competitive. My husband is competitive. My children are competitive. I don't ever think I've thought of it being a competition in the marriage though. I know when I've played sports and the like, I've been very competitive. I'm a good loser, but I'm going to give it my all during the fact. ----------------------------------------- In any event, it turned out I could post in here again. I made the mistake of reading my thread without logging in first. I don't mind constructive criticism but talking about my deceased parents or my family of origin in general is in bad taste when I have indicated as clearly as possible I grew up with wonderful parents and to this day have very good relationships with my siblings. We're all real close. Edited April 15, 2010 by Samantha0905
califnan Posted April 15, 2010 Posted April 15, 2010 I'm sure you're correct. I certainly wish I had already channeled my energies other places. I'm not knocking being a stay at home mom and I loved doing that, but I do wish now -- in retrospect -- I had kept more of myself and developed more interests. It may very well be had there been more self-fulfillment, I would not feel as much of a void. I'm working on that part. It's an adjustment after staying home with my children trying to redirect my sense of purpose. QUOTE] ------------------ Well the world is yours should you think of some creative endeavor or classes you may wish to pursue .. It would add an interest to your life .. and you may later be glad you squeezed it in at this time - because if or when the grandchildren come, they can fill your life as well .. (somehow I didn't think your grandchildren started yet.)
silverfish Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 I was reading earlier about the whole golf thing and I can relate to that -- my ex H and I are in the same profession and it's fair to say we are both rather competitive with eachother. In the past it made things sort of fun between us and interesting but lately it's become rather more serious and also a little dull (as far as I'm concerned -- I no longer need to prove myself). I think it's come to the point now where he's nearing his midlife 40's thing and taking it all very seriously, whereas I have recently started my career again after having kids and supporting him. I have more energy and enthusiasiam and he's not taken it well at all. Maybe your H is dreading ever being at the point where you 'catch him up' at golf -- I know it sounds ridiculous but I can't see my ex H EVER being happy at me being better than him at anything --- I think he'd explode or something if that happened. Do you think your H wants you to be good at golf and could he handle it if you were able to compete with him at the same level? Hope you're well Sam...I start IC myself next week erkkk
WalkInThePark Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 The golf stories made me laugh .. You husband not taking you seriously on the golf course and taking practice shots - instead of playing .. He is funny .. and the club's rules for women too .. Funny? I think both are sad: the rules and the way Sam's H acts so patronizing.
Author Samantha0905 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Posted April 16, 2010 I'm sure you're correct. I certainly wish I had already channeled my energies other places. I'm not knocking being a stay at home mom and I loved doing that, but I do wish now -- in retrospect -- I had kept more of myself and developed more interests. It may very well be had there been more self-fulfillment, I would not feel as much of a void. I'm working on that part. It's an adjustment after staying home with my children trying to redirect my sense of purpose. ------------------ Well the world is yours should you think of some creative endeavor or classes you may wish to pursue .. It would add an interest to your life .. and you may later be glad you squeezed it in at this time - because if or when the grandchildren come, they can fill your life as well .. (somehow I didn't think your grandchildren started yet.) It would I think. My counselor did say, however, not to confuse getting busy with actually handling the issues at hand and continuing with self-discovery as to what I want and need to do for personal happiness. No, I don't have grandchildren -- and as much as I am looking forward to that life blessing, I also don't want it to consume my time to the point I'm not focusing on self-development. I was reading earlier about the whole golf thing and I can relate to that -- my ex H and I are in the same profession and it's fair to say we are both rather competitive with each other. In the past it made things sort of fun between us and interesting but lately it's become rather more serious and also a little dull (as far as I'm concerned -- I no longer need to prove myself). I think it's come to the point now where he's nearing his midlife 40's thing and taking it all very seriously, whereas I have recently started my career again after having kids and supporting him. I have more energy and enthusiasiam and he's not taken it well at all. Maybe your H is dreading ever being at the point where you 'catch him up' at golf -- I know it sounds ridiculous but I can't see my ex H EVER being happy at me being better than him at anything --- I think he'd explode or something if that happened. Do you think your H wants you to be good at golf and could he handle it if you were able to compete with him at the same level? Hope you're well Sam...I start IC myself next week erkkk No -- it doesn't sound ridiculous -- except for the notion I could ever get as good as him at golf! We used to bowl on a league many years ago. I started out horrific and had something like a 78 average. Towards the end of the first bowling season, I received a high handicap trophy for bowling a 193. I was getting much better and actually beating my husband every once in a while. I don't think he liked it much. ha,ha It's nice you are at a point in your life where you have started a career and are feeling enthusiastic about it. I'm envious! Funny? I think both are sad: the rules and the way Sam's H acts so patronizing. Yes, I agree. I know people keep pointing out to me -- and I acknowledge myself -- resentments have built up. I wish I had been more assertive in handling all the slights because I wouldn't have as many resentments. However -- it is difficult to deny that sort of stuff is very patronizing. My sister always tells me I'm too nice and she would tell her husband to F off if he had the audacity to do such things. She would too. I'm heading away with my husband for the weekend. We may even go kayaking for the first time. Oh -- and my husband brought up the "list"/homework assignment last night. He changed it a bit and said I actually only supposed to come up with three things I would change about him if I could and I only needed to tell him -- not submit something to his counselor. I told him I would think on it, but actually I do admire many things about him and I could much more easily come up with a list of things to improve about myself. I think this weekend I will ask him what things he thinks would be on my list about him.
califnan Posted April 16, 2010 Posted April 16, 2010 Funny? I think both are sad: the rules and the way Sam's H acts so patronizing. -------------------- Agreed on one point Walk.. The club rules and the way that Samantha was handled or treated that day - was positively ridiculous! And as someone pointed out - that club should be in violation of something for that .. As for Samantha's husband .. Sometimes when she describes him and his actions - he just sounds like a great big kid to me, and does make me laugh .. And as for the dear old "game" .. I guess I am one who doesn't take games seriously anyway .. Could Not even handle miniature golf .. Too Tedious .. Walking around beautiful greens trying to hit that little ball in the hole ... Let's hear it for turning golf courses into housing development/parks ..
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