Latest counseling sessions.....

[Samantha0905]

I went to my counselor a couple of weeks ago and he basically analyzed a long dream I had in the week before meeting with him. There's so much to the dream, I'd rather not post it all here -- but it is so very fascinating to listen to the meaning he derives from the dreams I've had. He basically thinks I'm on the verge of a lot of self-discovery and many things are showing up in my dreams which are trying to spill out of my unconscious mind.

 

The following is only a small part of the dream I had -- I mean, I really have detailed dreams and they jump from scene to scene in what appears to be a totally different story -- but my counselor points out continuity in some of the elements in my dreams -- such as dogs, or water, or other things that are present in each scene. He takes each dream as a whole -- despite all the different scenes -- and discusses what they could possibly mean to me.

 

Anyway, here's the small part of the dream I'll share -- it was about midway through the entire dream:

 

"Next, I was with XAP at his house. He had a dog of some sort – small to medium and blonde with short hair – then we were walking the dog along a road, but then there was fog on the road ahead of us and he asked if it would hurt his dog. The fog was low and dense – flowing like moving clouds. I said no it wouldn’t hurt his dog and that I walked Elwood (my Chinese Crested- Chihuahua -- ha,ha that part is a joke -- I changed the name and breed of my actual dog who was in the dream) in the fog all the time. I said it might make his dog a little scared though because it does my chihuahua when he can’t see where he’s going. As we stepped into the fog, it changed into lightly flowing water. Then the water developed a strong current. To our left was a dirt embankment/hill and at the top of the hill, a chain link fence. The water was flowing through it and there were people looking through it holding on and looking scared. They were yelling for me to help by unlocking the gate to the fence. I headed up to do it, but the water swelled at that point like it was the ocean. A big wave came through and knocked me down and I thought I was going to get carried into the ocean. Then the water went back out (like the ebb and flow of the ocean.) I started thinking if I could get up there and just hold onto the fence really tight when the next wave came, I could then open up the gate once the water receded again and help the people get out. That’s all I remember except I was really worried the people were going to drown and they looked scared and were crying. The people were men, women – middle aged -- and children. They were in bathing suits that looked like they were from the 1920s or 30s or thereabouts."

Anyway -- I just shared that to give you a small excerpt from my dreams. They go on and on and are so detailed. It's both entertaining and bizarre. My counselor said the ocean represents one's unconscious mind in dreams. Interesting stuff. I believe I headed to that session without a lot to say and so that's why he decided to ask me about my dream journal and I had dreams to share so we discussed them.

 

 

Meanwhile, my husband went to his counseling session recently and I asked him how it went. He said it went fine. Usually he goes on and on about his counseling sessions, so that alone should have made me wonder. Later, he announced abruptly his counselor had given ME a homework assignment. I asked him what and he said his counselor wanted me to make a list of things I would change about my husband if I could.

 

 

Now, I did not argue with my husband about the assignment but I think I must have acted astonished a little bit because later he said, "You have to do it honey because I'm supposed to take it with me to my next counseling session."

 

 

I have a lot of mixed feelings about that and discussed them with my counselor in my session today.

 

 

In case anyone is offended or wants to make a statement about my distress over the requested homework assignment -- well, I'm allowed to have feelings and these are the feelings I have about it.

 

 

The first thought to go through my head was I didn't want to make a list and Mr. Southern Baptist counselor should not presume I would do so just because he sent out his "assignment." The second thought was I wasn't in marriage counseling as my husband made it clear his counseling sessions were about him -- so why was I getting assignments from his counselor -- a person I have never met?

 

 

 

So, my initial list running through my head (while still ticked off) was:

 

 

1) I would change the fact my husband has the propensity to run to a Southern Baptist minister to tell him our sexual problems. I thought this was unfair as at least I kept what was going on anonymous with a counselor who did not know us -- but he chose to tell intimate things to our pastor. He's my pastor too and a former neighbor.

 

 

 

2) I would change the fact my husband has the propensity to pick a Southern Baptist counselor at a church to get his counseling.

 

 

3) I would change the fact my husband expects I have to do something because some Southern Baptist person he thinks is in authority requests me to do so.

 

 

Now -- take into account, those were my initial ticked off thoughts and I'm just sharing things running through my mind upon first hearing the request. Please try not to judge me for those thoughts I'm being nice enough to honestly share.

 

 

 

I kept mulling the "assignment" around in my head and my reaction really was no thank you very much -- I'd rather not.

 

 

Then I started thinking about what I could send the counselor that wouldn't sound like I was being a total smart ass. Plus, I don't want to choose not to respond as I am interested in my husband's counseling being productive -- just like I want my own to be productive.

 

 

 

I thought about telling him I did not have a list of things I would change about my husband. In the first place, I would never presume I could hand such a list over and have all the changes occur -- made to order. Secondly, who am I to ask my husband to change anything about himself? If I had a list to give to my husband's counselor -- the only list I am qualified to hand over is perhaps one which lists things I would like to improve about myself. It would be awfully arrogant of me to assume I know what my husband needs to change about himself.

 

 

So -- I just don't see how it would be productive. I also think it could be pretty hurtful. I don't want my husband to sit around and make lists about me. I think it's fine for the two of us to discuss what we think we can do to improve the marriage if we end up in marriage counseling.

 

I mean -- I think people change throughout life somewhat -- they mature, they develop, they "become" -- it's a continuous process. We are who we are -- and I suppose that's what some people have tried to tell me in posts here at times. I can't make a banana an orange. Having said that, my counselor said as presumptuous as it would be for me to make a list of things for my husband to change, it would be just as presumptuous to think my husband cannot change certain things while he is working with is counselor. He said, however, that was between my husband -- his God -- and his counselor.

 

 

 

After discussing all of this with my counselor today -- and after he asked me repeatedly, "What do you want to do?" -- and believe me he had to ask me that a lot to get a clear response -- I told him I did not have a list to turn over which detailed changes I would like for my husband to make to himself. I think I'm just going to tell my husband's counselor that in writing and tell him I would be glad to meet with him, along with my husband, if he feels a need for that to happen -- but I think if he's looking for a list of things my husband needs to change about himself, perhaps he should continue working with my husband about that as he is his counselor. It seems he would have asked my husband to make a list of things he would like to change about himself -- if he feels change is needed.

 

 

My counselor did say today that in his opinion I display a lot of clarity when I tell him how I feel about things and that I am expressing myself in a reasonable manner. He said what he sees as my biggest obstacle is me learning it is okay to express myself. I told him a lot of little things seem to have built up over time with me.

 

 

By way of example -- and I know this post is as long as "Gone With the Wind" -- when we golf together -- my husband and I -- or I should say when we golfed together as he hasn't asked me in quite a while -- he says when he golfs with me he considers that his "practice" time. So, when we golf he will hit each shot three times. I mean from the tee, and everywhere the ball lands along the way. He just keeps dropping balls and hitting the shot again over and over. I find it demeaning. I know some of you may think I'm nitpicking or this isn't demeaning, but I guaran-damn-tee you he doesn't do that with his male golf friends. Golf -- like any of sport or athletic activity -- can involve a rhythm one gets into and it's sure hard for me to continue a good rhythm of decent shots if I'm waiting and watching him practice several shots before I hit my next shot.

 

 

And for what's it worth -- I've only golfed about 2.5 years and I've just recently started shooting under 100. He's golfed since his teens and shoots in the 70s regularly. My point is -- I'm not horrific at golf. There are many people who never shoot under 100.

 

 

Another little thing is at the club we golf at they don't allow women to hit the balls on the driving range on the weekend until after 2:00 -- although the men can from early morning when the club opens. I did not know this and was hitting balls one day at 1:45 (horrors!! ). One of the golf pros came up and said something to my husband and my husband asked me to go putt with him for a while. Once we got down to the putting course, he told me what the guy had said. He said he waited until the because he didn't want me to say something back to the guy. I wouldn't have been rude, but I certainly would have told him that was a very archaic way of thinking and insulting to women! Even that behavior bothered me -- by my husband -- it's like he scurried me away to a quiet place and broke the news to me -- to salvage the golf pro's feelings as he had to deliver the news. Well, how about my feelings in the situation? I understand the Board of Directors (of old, angry, well to do men protecting their "territory") make the decisions, but when is it okay for me to say I'm not okay with the rules? Believe me, women aren't the only people excluded in some way. Others are excluded completely. It isn't right.

 

 

 

My point is -- over time -- all these little things here and there seem demeaning to me. Are demeaning. And insulting.

 

 

I think my problem is I haven't spoken up along the way. My counselor says it would do me a world of good if I just start speaking up when things are feel demeaning to me. For what it's worth, he did say it was reasonable for me to take what I told him about the golfing scenario as demeaning.

 

 

 

So, that's where I'm at -- still working through stuff. And now I have some sort of response I'm supposed to draft to my husband's counselor. Happy, happy, joy, joy.

 

 

 

Still no sex in this marriage.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Samantha0905

[JustJoe]

SAm, you need to divorce. Neither of your "counselors", are helping you very much. Your Husband's, (preacher) is approaching it from a religious standpoint, naturally, and getting nowhere, Your's sounds a little too "new age", to be truly effective. From your posts, I think that both you and your H are intelligent , rational people, who simply are not suited for each other. I'm aware of all of the history you both have shared, but that is what it is,....History. Do you (both) want to live with drama for the rest of your lives? Do you (personally) want to be sexless for the rest of your life? You are full of resentment for your H and he both does and doesn't deserve that from an unfaithful partner. If the resentment gets worse, will you find someone else to love and cheat again? I mean NO disrespect, but I think you are BOTH better off with someone else. Remember the past with fondness, experience the present with wonder, and look to the future with anticipation. Two honest, free people are much better than one diseased marriage. IMO

[Samantha0905]

SAm, you need to divorce. Neither of your "counselors", are helping you very much. Your Husband's, (preacher) is approaching it from a religious standpoint, naturally, and getting nowhere, Your's sounds a little too "new age", to be truly effective. From your posts, I think that both you and your H are intelligent , rational people, who simply are not suited for each other. I'm aware of all of the history you both have shared, but that is what it is,....History. Do you (both) want to live with drama for the rest of your lives? Do you (personally) want to be sexless for the rest of your life? You are full of resentment for your H and he both does and doesn't deserve that from an unfaithful partner. If the resentment gets worse, will you find someone else to love and cheat again? I mean NO disrespect, but I think you are BOTH better off with someone else. Remember the past with fondness, experience the present with wonder, and look to the future with anticipation. Two honest, free people are much better than one diseased marriage. IMO

 

I don't know why -- but this post made me think of this:

 

"Lloyd Dobler: Joe. Joe. She's written 65 songs... 65. They're all about you. They're all about pain.

 

Joe: So what's up?"

 

 

Anyway, Joe. I appreciate your opinion, but we are working on things right now. When we are ready to divorce -- if we ever make that decision -- we will move forward with that. Right now, I'm just honestly giving a play by play as things go along. It doesn't mean they will always be where they are. It doesn't mean they will never get any better. It's no promise they won't get worse.

 

We're working on things. That's where we are.

 

I haven't met his counselor, so I don't know HOW conservative he is. He may not be overly conservative. I don't know.

 

By new age, does the dream analysis bother you about my counselor? I'm open to that sort of thing.

 

It's rather humorous in a way. My husband calls me a free-spirit, a bleeding heart liberal (actually I consider myself more Libertarian), etc. I used to look at him and wonder if he could possibly be any MORE conservative. I suppose we chose counselors who suited us.

 

I'm finding mine very effective for me. It's all about our perspectives. I'm sure glad I found him to help me at this point. He's making me think more about how I feel and helping me to find a voice for myself.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Samantha0905

[Samantha0905]

Oh -- and just to be clear about things -- the pastor and the counselor are two different people.

[JustJoe]

SAm I really don't believe in dream analysis. Dreams are usually disjointed thoughts and feelings about issues we are facing or have faced, nothing more. Some people believe and some don't. Being a "free-spirit", or being "conservative", are not moral judgements, but statements of core beliefs. I'm glad that you are at least open to divorce as an option, and was only trying to express my opinion of your situation. I think that both of you will know pretty soon if the marriage is reparable or not. Some of your issues are very involved, do you think that you will want to spend the work and time necessary to deal with them? BTW, I'm no golfer, I tried it in college and got pretty good, continued in the Army, but had to stop when I was deployed. After I got back, I went golfing with buddies, and it was as if I had never learned the game!!! It was very frustrating!!To be a good golfer you MUST practice every week or you will suck at it, like I do now. :D

[califnan]

The golf stories made me laugh .. You husband not taking you seriously on the golf course and taking practice shots - instead of playing .. He is funny .. and the club's rules for women too ..

 

I am with you about the listing for the counselor - putting things in writing for a third party . .. But then I have never been to a counselor .. You know the listing doesn't have to be the beginning and the end.. Maybe just a beginning .. Instead of mentioning anything about the intimacy - meditate or pray about what lead up to the sexual portion.. Go back to before the marriage and up to the present (in your mind).. Things that you felt have been important .. i.e. Is it important to you that you don't feel the same attraction for the man you married - as compared to the attraction you felt for the adventurous young man who you kissed (in the church?) when you were in your teens .. And how did things change when the two of you grew up together ..

[Samantha0905]

SAm I really don't believe in dream analysis. Dreams are usually disjointed thoughts and feelings about issues we are facing or have faced, nothing more. Some people believe and some don't. Being a "free-spirit", or being "conservative", are not moral judgements, but statements of core beliefs. I'm glad that you are at least open to divorce as an option, and was only trying to express my opinion of your situation. I think that both of you will know pretty soon if the marriage is reparable or not. Some of your issues are very involved, do you think that you will want to spend the work and time necessary to deal with them? BTW, I'm no golfer, I tried it in college and got pretty good, continued in the Army, but had to stop when I was deployed. After I got back, I went golfing with buddies, and it was as if I had never learned the game!!! It was very frustrating!!To be a good golfer you MUST practice every week or you will suck at it, like I do now. :D

 

I appreciate your thoughts Joe. He doesn't analyze my dreams telling me this is 100% what your dream means. He says there is no way to no, he doesn't think dreams predict the future, etc. He's simply worked for the last 30 years doing dream work. I rather like Carl Jung's thoughts on dreams.

 

I do think my husband I have some different core personality traits, but we do share some basic beliefs also. I don't think people have to be alike to be happy together. I do think we need to continue to work on reconciling the differences.

 

Speaking of the Army, I saw two army drill sergeant trainees at the alterations shop yesterday getting their dress uniforms altered. They've changed and look rather like the Marines -- the uniforms not the Army people in training (ha,ha). That was just an aside.

 

My only thoughts on golf is that I never used profanity much at all until I started golfing. I do whisper the words under my breath. I will always suck at it somewhat because I don't have the time to devote to four hours of golf several times a week. It's fun time though! I love just being outdoors.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts. I hope I don't sound snippy in reply. I'm just not at the "definitely need to get a divorce" stage so I'm not sure anyone else could know -- unless my husband comes to that conclusion.

[Samantha0905]

The golf stories made me laugh .. You husband not taking you seriously on the golf course and taking practice shots - instead of playing .. He is funny .. and the club's rules for women too ..

 

I am with you about the listing for the counselor - putting things in writing for a third party . .. But then I have never been to a counselor .. You know the listing doesn't have to be the beginning and the end.. Maybe just a beginning .. Instead of mentioning anything about the intimacy - meditate or pray about what lead up to the sexual portion.. Go back to before the marriage and up to the present (in your mind).. Things that you felt have been important .. i.e. Is it important to you that you don't feel the same attraction for the man you married - as compared to the attraction you felt for the adventurous young man who you kissed (in the church?) when you were in your teens .. And how did things change when the two of you grew up together ..

 

Yeah -- I don't really like putting things in writing either. My sister says saying things can be bad enough sometimes -- much less writing it all down! Kind of like these threads! Hopefully, there's some level of anonymity.

 

Thank you for your suggestions as to a way to contemplate things. I will keep them in mind.

[Spark1111]

Sam, reading your post I think what maybe most bugs you is you sense a lack of.....respect.

 

Would it be so hard to write that to your husband's counselor? I think his counselor is trying to help him see himself through your eyes.

 

You want to be respected as an equal partner.

 

There's number one on your list.

[Spark1111]

Plus, in your dream your fAP asks your opinion regarding the fog and respects your answer that it is all okay and will not hurt his dog.

 

He listens, respects and validates you and your opinion.

 

I think you have numbers two and three on your list.

[califnan]

Yeah -- I don't really like putting things in writing either. My sister says saying things can be bad enough sometimes -- much less writing it all down! Kind of like these threads! Hopefully, there's some level of anonymity.

 

Thank you for your suggestions as to a way to contemplate things. I will keep them in mind.

 

----------------------

 

Samantha, Most wedding vows spoken by the man include: I will Love, Cherish. If you make a listing, maybe it can speak to this?

[Samantha0905]

Sam, reading your post I think what maybe most bugs you is you sense a lack of.....respect.

 

Would it be so hard to write that to your husband's counselor? I think his counselor is trying to help him see himself through your eyes.

 

You want to be respected as an equal partner.

 

There's number one on your list.

 

Thanks Spark! Yes, that definitely is number one on my list. I've written something -- I'm not sure whether it sounds flippant or harsh. I will share it to get opinions.

[Samantha0905]

Plus, in your dream your fAP asks your opinion regarding the fog and respects your answer that it is all okay and will not hurt his dog.

 

He listens, respects and validates you and your opinion.

 

I think you have numbers two and three on your list.

 

Thank you. In my dream, my AP just kind of disappears in the dream and becomes less of a character in the plot once I start trying to save the people. It's interesting.

[Samantha0905]

----------------------

 

Samantha, Most wedding vows spoken by the man include: I will Love, Cherish. If you make a listing, maybe it can speak to this?

 

I think my husband has certainly loved and cherished more than most. It's a communication problem. Obviously.

 

I haven't made a "list" per se -- but I have tried to put a statement of sorts together.

[Samantha0905]

I've typed up a rough draft of what I may give to my husband's counselor. I've inserted ___________ for my husband's name. This is not set in stone as I'm not sure what I'm going to turn in (or not.)

 

I believe my assignment was to “make a List of things I would change about ________ if I could.” I don’t feel comfortable making a list of things I would change about him. I feel qualified to make a list of things I would improve or change about myself, but it would be awfully presumptuous of me to list changes for him. I could do it – knowing full well the changes may or may not happen – but I don’t see where that would be productive and it seems it would only result in hurt feelings and anger.

 

For what it’s worth, I think there are all sorts of things about _______ I would not change at all. He’s a good person and a great father. He goes out of his way to be a gentlemen and caring with me and he has certainly been a good provider.

 

I do feel somewhere along the way we’ve failed to develop a strong friendship that has to do with both of us and who we are as people. In my humble opinion, ________ loves me with all of his heart but he sees himself as my caretaker. He’s willing in his definition to consider me an equal partner, but this does not seem to include being okay with me being myself and expressing my opinions. I know sometimes (perhaps many) he disagrees with my opinions and feels I express them too strongly – but it is who I am and if that makes me liberal (in his eyes) or a feminist (in his eyes) – I’m okay with being that person.

 

 

I don’t like the fact I’m a person in his life who he wants to squelch as far as who I am as a person is concerned. I know he has a lot of stress and he would very much appreciate no rocking of the boat – but I am a person and certainly should be able to express myself. Over the years, I feel he has encouraged me not to speak my mind or express myself. It's subtle, but it does build up over time.

 

 

At times, I have felt very minimized in our relationship. I don’t know that ______ does this is on purpose. The problem is my lack of communication during the years. I should have spoken up along the way. I should have developed myself more. Perhaps meeting so youthful and getting married so young were a factor in the poor development of self in the relationship. I do know for a fact in the earlier years of our marriage things felt much more oppressive to me as far as his parents, his thoughts about church, etc. were concerned.

 

By way of a very small example, when we’re out golfing – or I should say when we used to go out golfing – ________ would treat his outings with me as “casual” and practice while we were out – hitting several balls from one place, etc. Recently, I was told I should go take a few lessons and then I could head out to golf with _______ and his friend, ________, again. I know ________ says these things trying to be helpful – but they feel minimizing to me. I’m not the red-headed step-child of golfing partners. If I want to take a lesson, I will pick up the phone and call to set an appointment up for myself. If someone tells me I cannot hit a golf ball until 2:00 because I am female, I reserve the right to say as nicely as possible given the restrictive and archaic attitudes involved in the “rule” – “I’m not okay with that. It’s restrictive and archaic. You guys may be a few crayons short of a box.”

 

In any event, I could go on and on about resentments I have over certain small things that have built up – and I could go on and on about some larger things that bother me about the Southern Baptist church’s demeaning stances regarding women, unloving attitudes toward homosexuals, etc. It just seems fruitless and I don’t want to get bogged down in it. However, I can’t say I’m jumping up and down and antsy to sit in a pew of a church which states, “While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.” It’s insulting.

 

It’s probably not a great first impression to put things like that in type, but in the interest of being cooperative – I thought I’d write something.

 

 

I'm sure _______ has quite a list of his own resentments by this point.

 

 

Mainly – in regard to our marriage and myself, what I see is my own personal responsibility for what feels like a stilted relationship in our marriage and for my lack of self –development and expression.

 

I don’t have a lot more to say. I haven’t met you and certainly would be willing – if ever needed – to come in and talk to you while ________ is there if you have specific questions.

[califnan]

Samantha, I think you are free to develop yourself more ..

 

Here is a sampling of the woman's wedding vows: Love, Cherish, Submit, Follow, grow into one.

[califnan]

Samantha, My source is www.bible.org/article/sample-weddingvows.com

[califnan]

Samantha, I think you are free to develop yourself more ..

 

Here is a sampling of the woman's wedding vows: Love, Cherish, Submit, Follow, grow into one.

 

-----------------------

 

Samantha, I meant these two paragraphs as two entirely different thoughts .. You talked in your last comment about being free to develop yourself .. What I meant by my comment is that I think a woman should be free to develop herself - as for further studying or toward an occupation or life interest, etc..

[OWoman]

I've typed up a rough draft of what I may give to my husband's counselor. I've inserted ___________ for my husband's name. This is not set in stone as I'm not sure what I'm going to turn in (or not.)

 

I'm curious - have you mentioned these issues to your H before? Are these issues you've discussed, or is this the first time you're verbalising them? Will he recognise himself in them, or will this come as a surprise to him?

[Samantha0905]

I'm curious - have you mentioned these issues to your H before? Are these issues you've discussed, or is this the first time you're verbalising them? Will he recognise himself in them, or will this come as a surprise to him?

 

Oh yes. Many, many times. I just have not done a good job of owning how I feel and taking actions myself to live my life and make my own adult choices. He definitely won't be surprised. In fact, he went to counseling telling the counselor he knew I had a lot of resentments toward him over these types of things and he feels his inability to communicate well is destroying his marriage. Admittedly, I've had a difficult time communicating my feelings to him for various reasons including the fact I let feeling oppressed stop me from doing so. I honestly did not know how to deal with the controlling nature of his parents when I was younger. I think many of my husband's issues have to do with a controlling nature.

 

As I've said, I truly do think for BOTH of us a lot of this had to do with meeting so young, my husband being influenced greatly by a very restrictive religious upbringing and me being the type of person that felt I was "supposed" to do certain things to be a nice person. I think I repressed my own feelings and thoughts many times because I thought as a "good wife" I was supposed to do so. I suppose as a younger person I gave off the impression of being easily malleable somewhat by not finding my voice -- although resistance seems to be raising it's head again, much like it did after 10 years of marriage.

[OWoman]

Oh yes. Many, many times. I just have not done a good job of owning how I feel and taking actions myself to live my life and make my own adult choices. He definitely won't be surprised. In fact, he went to counseling telling the counselor he knew I had a lot of resentments toward him over these types of things and he feels his inability to communicate well is destroying his marriage. Admittedly, I've had a difficult time communicating my feelings to him for various reasons including the fact I let feeling oppressed stop me from doing so. I honestly did not know how to deal with the controlling nature of his parents when I was younger. I think many of my husband's issues have to do with a controlling nature.

 

As I've said, I truly do think for BOTH of us a lot of this had to do with meeting so young, my husband being influenced greatly by a very restrictive religious upbringing and me being the type of person that felt I was "supposed" to do certain things to be a nice person. I think I repressed my own feelings and thoughts many times because I thought as a "good wife" I was supposed to do so. I suppose as a younger person I gave off the impression of being easily malleable somewhat by not finding my voice -- although resistance seems to be raising it's head again, much like it did after 10 years of marriage.

 

I wondered to what extent you'd been able to say them to him (given what you'd said about communication problems) and the extent to which he's been able to hear them. And whether, having heard them, he recognises in himself a need to change - not because you want it, or because your M would be better - but because it would make him closer to the "him" he'd like to see himself as. Are these issues issues for him too - or are they just problems in your M, to him?

[Samantha0905]

I wondered to what extent you'd been able to say them to him (given what you'd said about communication problems) and the extent to which he's been able to hear them. And whether, having heard them, he recognises in himself a need to change - not because you want it, or because your M would be better - but because it would make him closer to the "him" he'd like to see himself as. Are these issues issues for him too - or are they just problems in your M, to him?

 

I don't know. It's why my assignment from his counselor bothered me a bit. Shouldn't he be sitting down and trying to figure out for himself what he might want to improve or change for him?

 

Maybe he wouldn't really change anything save for it being his effort to save the marriage. I don't meant that in any way ugly -- if he is going to counseling because he knows I'm not happy and knows he's not communicating well -- that's a good thing and shows a great deal of effort on his part. I think he stepped way out of his comfort zone in doing that.

 

I think he's heard me all along and has just been at a loss as to what to do or how to behave differently. Sometimes I have gone along with the flow, but other times I've had major speaking up times as in when we went to marriage counseling the first time and when I moved out to live in the apartment for six months.

 

I definitely think if I hadn't been waving red flags he certainly would not have gone to counseling. I think I've said before as long as things went along smoothly just as they are -- including sex each Saturday night -- he'd be fine. He's a creature of routine and habit.

[troggleputty]

Suggestions for "the List" (changes in husband):

 

1. He should stop being a religious fanatic.

 

2. He should get better at sex.

[Just a stone's throw]

Sam, I find this a very odd request from his counselor. I almost see it as a trap. I would think that the better thing to request is that he send your H home to have a heart-to-heart with you and have your husband list what he heard you say. Have you validate what he wrote on the list and perhaps comment about where you thought and why you thought his words and actions didn't sit right for you. Bring that list back to the counselor and work from there. Who is doing the work here? If you've had these convo's before, he should be able to reiterate where your concerns are. I just think it's quite one-sided. Good luck and I hope it works for your sake!

[ladydesigner]

I read through the posts and I agree with this.

 

Sam, I find this a very odd request from his counselor. I almost see it as a trap. I would think that the better thing to request is that he send your H home to have a heart-to-heart with you and have your husband list what he heard you say. Have you validate what he wrote on the list and perhaps comment about where you thought and why you thought his words and actions didn't sit right for you. Bring that list back to the counselor and work from there. Who is doing the work here? If you've had these convo's before, he should be able to reiterate where your concerns are. I just think it's quite one-sided. Good luck and I hope it works for your sake!

 

Sounds like you have a great therapist Samantha I am thinking of starting IC myself. Good to see you back here and providing the informative feedback.