I can't see the forest for the trees

[Malandro]

Well, this is a heck of a first post, but I guess a person has to start somewhere. My story goes as such: I've been married for 24 yrs, and in those 24 yrs, for the most part my wife and I have gone our own ways. We've just co-existed as friends and room mates. This trend seemed to start soon after we married and simply because she complained about every place we went, or flat out refused to go. So as a result, I had a choice. Live, or simply set at home and vegetate. And for her part, she seemed perfectly fine with whatever I did as long as it didn't impose on her. It caused no fights or arguments, and as a matter of fact, we've never really been prone to arguing. But time marches on, and things you'd never believe you'd accept become the norm of the day. So to try to reduce the size of this post, I'll try to bullet point our lives in the hopes it'll be a bit easier to process.

 

First 10 yrs we did a few things together, not a lot, but some and it was good. But during this span, I was working away from home and ended up in the hospital with some sort of weird virus. I was there for about 5 days and totally out of it, before my mother shamed her into coming and driving me home.

 

Early on into our marriage, she really gained weight and all but stopped cleaning house and would do nothing at all in the yard. Then she began to horde, and no matter how much I throw away, she simply builds it right back up. It's like an endless loop, to the point I have rooms I can't even enter, and it's maddening. Yet when I talk to her about it, I just get silence.

 

Our one and only child born after 10 yrs of marriage, and then she changed. It seemed to me like she knew she had me, that I could never leave, and she begin to really treat me with disdain. I became totally miserable and tried talking to her, but she'd just look at me. No effort at all.

 

By now it's 1998 and our child is about 3 yrs old. I'm working in another town and only home on the weekends. My wife sleeps in our daughters room, and we have all but no interaction with each other. So shameful as it is, I met someone in this other town, and fell madly in love with her. I saw her for about 8 months, and had never known that level of happiness. So I came home, set my wife down, confessed everything, and asked for a divorce. She fell apart, said she didn't blame me, said she deserved it and begged for another chance. And when I asked why things had went so wrong, her reply was she resented me, resented all I'd accomplished, how things seemed to always come easy for me. Bear in mind, she didn't work and I totally took care of her.

 

So, I end the affair, one of the hardest things I've ever done, and we tried. And it was good. She lost about 60 lbs and looked better than when I'd met her. We did everything together, people were shocked to see us together and she even told me how much she loved this new life. But then, over about 18 months, she put the weight back on and fell back into her old ways. The only difference being, we started doing yearly vacations as a family, and a few camping trips and such. But never ever anything with just the two of us. Unless it involved our daughter, nada. Even on anniversaries.

 

So now another 10 yrs have rolled by. I still do everything alone. Holidays with my family, while she's made a couple, it's very, very rare, yet I make all of hers. My family reunions, people used to ask why she never came, now they just expect me to be alone. Funerals, always alone. For the most part, my family barely know her and the rift was so great that during the last 5 yrs of my father's life, he refused to even come to our house because of the bad blood between them and this due to the fact she'd left me in the hospital yet again. And a few other things I am only now just finding out. Her mother is an absolute loon and my wife has never defended me, or supported me on any family issue, or anything else for that matter. She's never shown any interest in anything I do, which is a lot. I built, wood work, custom paint, you name it, but she's never shown any interest at all.

 

So now, after 24 yrs of marriage, she finds a text on my phone and is convinced there's someone else. But not this time, yet the fear has totally changed her. The weight has come off, and she wants to be my best friend. Where as before when my daughter and I were down stairs watching TV or hanging out, she'd be upstairs reading a book. But now, she's in the middle of everything. Before the answer to any and everything was no, now it's always yes.

 

So yes, it seems pretty clear, this new her can't last. But still yet, I feel so guilty for wanting out of this marriage while I'm still young enough to start over. I do love her and I do believe her to be a good and kind person. I chalk it up to the old adage of a person just not being able to love you the way you want to be loved and because of this, and I can't imagine just throwing her to the wolves. I have no problem taking care of her, yet it galls me to answer to a woman who doesn't put anything into our personal relationship. And believe me, I've tried and tried to talk to her, but only until I have one foot out the door will she listen. And now, I'm so cynical and unbelieving that I trust nothing. I don't trust this change being of love, but of fear of loss. Because she has a life now that allows her to get up and pretty much do as she pleases. So not knowing what else to do, I've started seeing a counselor, just to try and sort though my feelings, and it's helped. Still yet, the guilt of not believing is killing me, and a weak part of me wants to take the easy way out and just stay, for the financial stability, (Everything we own will be paid off at yrs end) and just because it's safe. Yet another part of me believes that in a short time, things will have to come full circle.

 

So my question is: Is this just standard procedure when one decides they've had enough? Does the other spouse pull out all the stops to repair the damage and if so, can it last? Because that's what I believe, it's only damage control, and it just can't last.

 

Any insight or experience would be most appreciated.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Malandro

[SwissMiss88]

A lot of people go through exactly that, whether they have been married for as long as you have or whether they're just in relationships: partners get lazy, forget to put in the necessary work so the relationship can bloom, and then get scared once they feel they could lose what they have.

 

I think this is exactly the case with her. From what you said about her she seems to have a lot of issues (hoarding, excess weight, etc.) that she's not dealing with. She knows that you have stayed with her through this and that many others would have left a long time ago. That's why she's trying everything in her power to make sure you stay.

 

If you really love her, try counseling with her. You said you see a counselor yourself, but I think she needs one just as much as you do. Maybe you should both go seperately, and together.

 

After all, it's a marriage that lasted for years. You guys have given each other vows. Don't throw in the towel just yet, that would be my advice. But do get professional help.

 

Good luck!

[Malandro]

From what you said about her she seems to have a lot of issues (hoarding, excess weight, etc.) that she's not dealing with. She knows that you have stayed with her through this and that many others would have left a long time ago. That's why she's trying everything in her power to make sure you stay.

 

If you really love her, try counseling with her. You said you see a counselor yourself, but I think she needs one just as much as you do. Maybe you should both go seperately, and together.

 

After all, it's a marriage that lasted for years. You guys have given each other vows. Don't throw in the towel just yet, that would be my advice. But do get professional help.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the great reply Swiss, and actually, this has not only been my opinion, but the major source of my guilt. Because while I feel this is probably the right thing to do, I have really felt it to be futile. Especially since I've been down this road once before with her. And I know how that turned out.

 

But I did put a few very direct questions to my counselor and while I got the impression he didn't want to answer, he finally did.

 

1. What would promote change of this magnitude? Finally realizing her love for me, or something else? And his answer was, "Change almost always comes from either greed, or fear of loss.

 

2. What can I expect from the future? And his answer was, "There is no better way to predict the future than to review the past."

 

3. Is it my duty as a husband to "fix her"? And his reply was, "No, that falls to her. Although I'm not saying to leave your wife, her issues are hers to fix, and it falls to her to make that decision. Then it falls to you on how you respond.

 

So in light of all he's told me, it's sort of hard to have hope. Yet I still feel torn. Thing is, she's taken no steps to correct her issues long term, and that troubles me. And while I can't bear to just bolt out the door, I am thinking about buying myself a camp or something, and splitting my time there. And if things seem to head in the right direction, well we re-evaluate.

 

It may not be the best plan, but it's all I can come up with. What I can't bare is to just stay, and slowly watch things gravitate back to where they've always been.

[WalkInThePark]

AAfter all, it's a marriage that lasted for years. You guys have given each other vows. Don't throw in the towel just yet, that would be my advice. But do get professional help.Good luck!

 

On the basis of his description, the length of this marriage has no value at all. What does the quantity matter is the quality is so poor?

[hopesndreams]

What changes can you make? Why is everything and anything that goes wrong, all her doing? You are far from perfect, no matter how much you try to make yourself out to be with what you have written. What surprises me is that you didn't have another A. Only one?

 

So, what now? Separate, meet someone else, that's inevitable, and then eventually D? It would have been nice if the family could stay intact. Your W obviously loves you, but is unable to prove it to you, even after she forgave you for the ultimate betrayal.

 

How much emotional support do you give her? Why has she been on her own all these years and had no outside interests? Why isn't she getting the benefit of some therapy?

[Malandro]

What changes can you make? Why is everything and anything that goes wrong, all her doing? You are far from perfect, no matter how much you try to make yourself out to be with what you have written. What surprises me is that you didn't have another A. Only one?

 

What changes can "I" make? That's a good question, and one that's been put to her in the past. I've sit her down numerous times and asked that question. I've asked her to work with me, said that I know I'm not perfect. And if you think I'm trying to make myself out to be so, then I suggest you re-read my post. No one is perfect and nothing is ever all one person's fault. As I told her, I begin to resent things she does, or doesn't do, and that has an affect, and no doubt she starts to resent and this has the same affect. And it becomes a trend. And no, no more affairs.

 

 

Your W obviously loves you, but is unable to prove it to you, even after she forgave you for the ultimate betrayal.

 

Obviously loves me? Really? What do you base this on? The lenght of time we've been together? I'm sorry but that doesn't fly. Somewhere in there a bit of action and meeting in the middle is required. And don't you think it could quite possibly be she loves her lifestyle a bit more than she loves me? As for her forgiveness, I've never asked for that. When I came to her with the affair, I didn't ask for forgiveness, I asked for a divorce. I was done. But we talked it out and decided we could move forward and be better for it. And we were for a time, then things gravitated back to the same ole same ole.

 

How much emotional support do you give her? Why has she been on her own all these years and had no outside interests? Why isn't she getting the benefit of some therapy?

 

Another good question. I've asked if there are classes she'd like to take, hobbies she may be interested in, and finally if she would consider therapy. But the problem here is, she sees no problem with how things have been and she's never wanted more. Well, up until now at least. Now she's willing to talk, but after so many tries in the past and so much water under the bridge, I just don't believe anymore. So yes, this probably does mean emotional support hasn't been the best, from either side.

 

As for therapy, you can't force therapy on a person, and you can't force them to change. And maybe I'm wrong to do this, but I can't help but notice we now have the exact same marriage as that of her parents. Thus the reason I feel so fatalistic.

[hopesndreams]

You have deep resentments and are unapologetic. You need to work on those.

 

What changes can "I" make?

 

She needs therapy to build up her self-esteem and self-confidence. There should be less focus on her weight and bad housekeeping and more focus on her inner turmoil.

 

and finally if she would consider therapy. But the problem here is, she sees no problem with how things have been and she's never wanted more. Well, up until now at least.

 

Sounds as though she is ready to give therapy a try.

 

It takes 2 to make a relationship work and only 1 to break it. She is not the one wanting to bail, you are. You are also looking for others on this forum to cheer you on. Some will but most of us here, won't.

[Malandro]

You have deep resentments and are unapologetic. You need to work on those.

 

This is very true. Thus the reason I have sought out therapy, because I do want to get past it. I just haven't manged to get there yet, and another reason I'm here. For a better understanding.

 

She needs therapy to build up her self-esteem and self-confidence. There should be less focus on her weight and bad housekeeping and more focus on her inner turmoil.

 

I agree, but she has to want it. And my forcing it on her, well how can that really take? If it's forced, then wouldn't it simply be a stop gap measure? Not that I'm not willing to try and support her in it. But SHE needs to come up with forward plan this time. She needs to take some amount of ownership for a change. And I just haven't seen that.

 

 

Sounds as though she is ready to give therapy a try.

 

It takes 2 to make a relationship work and only 1 to break it. She is not the one wanting to bail, you are. You are also looking for others on this forum to cheer you on. Some will but most of us here, won't.

 

You've made great points and I agree with most of all you've said. Just let me put a finer point on things. My father before his passing told me I'd gave her the world and not held her accountable. And now that I'm seeing a counselor, he's telling me the same thing. That in our case, a certain amount of tension in a marriage is not an altogether bad thing. That she has to be held accountable. And there in lays the rub. When I've tried, she just plants her feet and refuses, and continues to refuse until I get to the point I'm at now. Then, and only then is she willing to talk and work with me. And that not only frustrates the hell out of me, but it makes me feel it isn't genuine, and not from the heart.

 

I feel my only, or at least main value is that of a provider, both in money and security, and I feel used because of it. So for me to give it another go, I think it's fair for me to require some assurance that once the dust settles, things don't go back to the way they've always been. To me, there has to be more to life and a marriage than that.

[unsureLP]

My father before his passing told me I'd gave her the world and not held her accountable. And now that I'm seeing a counselor, he's telling me the same thing. That in our case, a certain amount of tension in a marriage is not an altogether bad thing. That she has to be held accountable. And there in lays the rub.

 

Only you and your wife know what happens between you but I want to give you a different perspective.

 

I'm also going to IC and MC and what my IC says doesn't always match what my MC sees and repeats to us. The dynamic of what happens between the two of you can't always be understood by a counselor who only talks to you.

 

Just a thought.

[2sunny]

What changes can "I" make? That's a good question, and one that's been put to her in the past. I've sit her down numerous times and asked that question. I've asked her to work with me, said that I know I'm not perfect. And if you think I'm trying to make myself out to be so, then I suggest you re-read my post. No one is perfect and nothing is ever all one person's fault. As I told her, I begin to resent things she does, or doesn't do, and that has an affect, and no doubt she starts to resent and this has the same affect. And it becomes a trend. And no, no more affairs.

 

 

 

 

Obviously loves me? Really? What do you base this on? The lenght of time we've been together? I'm sorry but that doesn't fly. Somewhere in there a bit of action and meeting in the middle is required. And don't you think it could quite possibly be she loves her lifestyle a bit more than she loves me? As for her forgiveness, I've never asked for that. When I came to her with the affair, I didn't ask for forgiveness, I asked for a divorce. I was done. But we talked it out and decided we could move forward and be better for it. And we were for a time, then things gravitated back to the same ole same ole.

 

 

 

Another good question. I've asked if there are classes she'd like to take, hobbies she may be interested in, and finally if she would consider therapy. But the problem here is, she sees no problem with how things have been and she's never wanted more. Well, up until now at least. Now she's willing to talk, but after so many tries in the past and so much water under the bridge, I just don't believe anymore. So yes, this probably does mean emotional support hasn't been the best, from either side.

 

As for therapy, you can't force therapy on a person, and you can't force them to change. And maybe I'm wrong to do this, but I can't help but notice we now have the exact same marriage as that of her parents. Thus the reason I feel so fatalistic.

 

you were asked what changes YOU could make... and YOU answered mainly info about your W. this is not about HER - this is about YOU. you either accept the M the way it is - or YOU change your part in it... whether or not that includes D - that is simply up to YOU.

 

And now, I'm so cynical and unbelieving that I trust nothing. I don't trust this change being of love, but of fear of loss.

 

based on history and the way things have gone in the past - i would venture to say you can only expect your W to do exactly what she's always done.

 

are YOU willing to accept that? if not, then divorce. counseling is only about YOUR role. that's the ONLY part you can control. what she chooses is her deal... she may or may not change.

 

if the love you seek isn't looking like you will find it in your M then it may be best to reassess what that looks like for YOU.

 

why hasn't she been working through the years? she resents you for working and being a good provider? i'd venture to say that she doesn't value herself and her time enough to have found a reason to be interested in a job - any job.

 

the first time all this happened - why didn't she start working?

 

 

also - what did she find on your phone that was suspicious? it must have been something... and you passed right over that part. even flirting with someone else could be construed as misdirected energy outside the M. most men that are ignored and undervalued at home go looking for attention from others... is this what you justified in your mind? i'm certain it wasn't nothing as most women don't drop 60 lbs over nothing. it raised a flag big enough to light a fake fire under her butt... so what was it - and what were your intentions when you participated in that exchange?

[mendsley]

This is a tough one, seems to me you have already answered your question. If you are looking for someone to validate you walking away from your marriage, then I doubt many here will tell you to do it. The way I see it is you are very unhappy and you want to make yourself happy without any regard to your wife. If you leave it's a gamble, you may always be searching for the greener grass. One thing that most walk away spouses don't understand is a relationship is work! It is situations like this that make a better relationship, one that you are striving for now. They don't just happen, they are earned thru turmoil, mistakes, and most of all thru forgiveness!

 

You seem like a smart person and I am pretty sure if you found it in yourself you could find a way to help your wife find happiness within herself.

 

Now on the flipside......life is short, you have one shot at this life. Why sit there and be unhappy with another person. If you truely believe that you will never be happy again then you will never put in the effort to resolve your marriage.

 

So to give you an answer I would say STAY with your wife and find out what you both can do to help her find happiness within herself! It will not just happen you both will need to work together to resolve this.

 

One thing about the affair is you guys need to forgive, but never forget! There is a difference.

[Malandro]

you were asked what changes YOU could make... and YOU answered mainly info about your W. this is not about HER - this is about YOU. you either accept the M the way it is - or YOU change your part in it... whether or not that includes D - that is simply up to YOU.

 

 

 

based on history and the way things have gone in the past - i would venture to say you can only expect your W to do exactly what she's always done.

 

are YOU willing to accept that? if not, then divorce. counseling is only about YOUR role. that's the ONLY part you can control. what she chooses is her deal... she may or may not change.

 

You're right Sunny, I have been in the habit of making everything about her. Basing my actions on hers, letting her actions fuel resentment in me, and I never saw it. Not until the counselor pointed this out to me, so there has been at least that benifit to my seeking counseling. And though he didn't want to say it, he also indicated any change will probably be temporary in nature.

 

why hasn't she been working through the years? she resents you for working and being a good provider? i'd venture to say that she doesn't value herself and her time enough to have found a reason to be interested in a job - any job.

 

the first time all this happened - why didn't she start working?

Yeah, well I never could make 2 & 2 out of her resentment either. But I do believe it, because when it came to any issue with her family, she never failed to side against me, no matter what. As for work, she worked the first few yrs of our marriage and complained non-stop. Then I took a job that sometimes kept me away from home but paid much more money. So we agreed she stop working so we could maximize our time together when we were home, and I'd hoped with more time, she'd start cleaning house. Neither of these hopes materialized.

 

 

also - what did she find on your phone that was suspicious? it must have been something... and you passed right over that part. even flirting with someone else could be construed as misdirected energy outside the M. most men that are ignored and undervalued at home go looking for attention from others... is this what you justified in your mind? i'm certain it wasn't nothing as most women don't drop 60 lbs over nothing. it raised a flag big enough to light a fake fire under her butt... so what was it - and what were your intentions when you participated in that exchange?

 

The weight loss started around the Summer of 2009. I'd finally became so agravated with the situation that I stopped being intimate with her.

 

And she saw no text, only an unknown number of someone I'd sent a text to while I was in China. And that sparked much fear and her imagination ran wild, so she confronted me and asked if she needed to step aside and finally let me be happy. My reply was, "No, there's no one and no one I want to go to. But since you've brought it up then yes, maybe we do need to start the process towards seperation. Because I'm tired of whatever it is we have". And here we are.

[dazzle22]

Your wife sounds mentally ill to me.. this hoarding thing to the point you describe would drive me out. What is her mother like? Is she mentally ill?

 

I really believe in doing everything to save a marriage. We take vows and we need to live up to them. That being said, I finally threw in the towel on a 26 year marriage because of similar types of things...him saying things would change when I threatened to leave only to have him always slip back into behavior I found unacceptable...(only mine was he just stopped working for 11 years and wouldn't get back 'on the horse', and his frequent emotional affairs with other women). I know your struggle and it's a tough one...be prepared if you do divorce to support her for the rest of her life. You have set a precedent by being the only wage earner. That one really nailed me, and I will never financially recover...

[Malandro]

This is a tough one, seems to me you have already answered your question. If you are looking for someone to validate you walking away from your marriage, then I doubt many here will tell you to do it. The way I see it is you are very unhappy and you want to make yourself happy without any regard to your wife. If you leave it's a gamble, you may always be searching for the greener grass. One thing that most walk away spouses don't understand is a relationship is work! It is situations like this that make a better relationship, one that you are striving for now. They don't just happen, they are earned thru turmoil, mistakes, and most of all thru forgiveness!

 

You seem like a smart person and I am pretty sure if you found it in yourself you could find a way to help your wife find happiness within herself.

 

Interesting, you're the second person to suggest I'm looking for validation. I'm not, or at least I don't think I am, but it is a question I'm going to take into consideration. As for having no regard for my wife, I feel her changes aren't genuine and/or lasting. I feel she's playing me for time, just trying to smooth things over to get us past this rough spot, then eventually I'll just be too old to leave. But as for no regard for her, that's not the case at all. I've offered her our home and land, all paid for lock stock and barrel. And this is no small amount. I've offered to continue to take care of her, pay for college, courses, whatever she wants. What I've refused to do is to continue living with a just a room mate. But all I've offered her would be impossible if I didn't love her, and see her worth. And I do want her to do better, but I've just given up on trying to make her want it. But yes, all you've said is the source of my indecision and my guilt, because I feel duty bound to fix this, no matter what it takes. Even though my heart tells me it can't be done.

 

Now on the flipside......life is short, you have one shot at this life. Why sit there and be unhappy with another person. If you truely believe that you will never be happy again then you will never put in the effort to resolve your marriage.

 

This is the position of the mutual friends who know us.

 

So to give you an answer I would say STAY with your wife and find out what you both can do to help her find happiness within herself! It will not just happen you both will need to work together to resolve this.

 

One thing about the affair is you guys need to forgive, but never forget! There is a difference.

 

I would like to help her find happiness and there is a lot of merit to finding that happiness with her. But bear in mind the amount of change this would require. (And yes, from both of us, because I know I'd have to have faith, and act on it) One thing I do know in all of this: Even though I can't shake this feeling of being duty bound to care for her for life, I can no longer roll over and brush everything under the rug. I'll be much firmer in what I expect, and my gut tells me that as a person who hates being told what to do, this will only build resentment from her. Then where will we be? And yes I know, you never know until you try. But I've known her for 25 yrs, so it's not like I don't have a trend line to base my expectations upon.

 

One thing I've failed to mention is how my thoughts of moving out progressed. I'd considered just building myself a little cottage on our land and moving into it. Then I wouldn't have to deal with this hording thing she does. Then it hit me how crazy that actually was, and I started considering a lake house, or a camp. Then next thing you know, you already out the door mentally.

[Malandro]

Your wife sounds mentally ill to me.. this hoarding thing to the point you describe would drive me out. What is her mother like? Is she mentally ill?

 

Her grandmother and her grandmother's sister were pretty mean and demanding, but her mother's an absolute loon. Mean, insecure, spiteful, and generally most unpleasant to be around. It's progressed though the yrs to the point that now, most everyone just avoids her as best they can. But to her credit, she does keep a clean house. As for my wife, she's not mean at all, just insecure and she does have a talent for passive resistance. And horribly moody and odd as it may seem, after all these yrs I still can't read her. She gets up one morning sullen and quite, and I never know if I'm the cause, or rather it's just one of those days.

 

I really believe in doing everything to save a marriage. We take vows and we need to live up to them. That being said, I finally threw in the towel on a 26 year marriage because of similar types of things...him saying things would change when I threatened to leave only to have him always slip back into behavior I found unacceptable...(only mine was he just stopped working for 11 years and wouldn't get back 'on the horse', and his frequent emotional affairs with other women). I know your struggle and it's a tough one...be prepared if you do divorce to support her for the rest of her life. You have set a precedent by being the only wage earner. That one really nailed me, and I will never financially recover...

 

Yes, the slipping back into the old behavior is exactly what I suspect and fear most. As does my counselor, unless as he puts it, I maintain some amount of tension in the relationship. And honestly, I just hate the thought of living like that. What am I supposed to do? Keep one foot out the door to keep her modiivated? Is it real love if you have to keep an axe over someone's head?

 

Thanks for your experience Dazzle. I'm sort of starting to feel like I'm just spitting in the wind.

[WalkInThePark]

This is a tough one, seems to me you have already answered your question. If you are looking for someone to validate you walking away from your marriage, then I doubt many here will tell you to do it.

 

Well, I for one validate your wish to get out. I would even say: get out ASAP since this parody of a marriage has lasted long enough. Imagine if someone told you that you only had 2 more years left to live. Would you want to spend them with your wife?

I have seen my own parents be unhappily married for 42 years. I think my father was someone who never should have married. He never was emotionally present for my mother and I have seen this beautiful, joyful, dynamic woman turn into a bitter, mean shrew. No my father did not beat her up, he did not drink, he did not waste their money. But she was basically alone in that marriage. He was always more interested in his own family, his brothers and sisters and their kids.

 

But your know what? Even when we were adults and my mother could still have left my father, somehow she had stayed too long to find the courage to leave him. She had her 3 children before she was thirty so by the time she was 50, we were independent. It's not that it was not possible because of money because all their assets were 50/50 and they stopped their business when my mom was 54. Besides, she had always been in sales and she was very communicative and goodlooking, so she could have taken on whatever job which involved contact with customers.

 

But she did not leave him although she could not stand him anymore. My explanation is that it is very difficult to shake off a habit, even it's a bad one.

 

Eventually my mother developped cancer and died at 64... I think she wanted to get out of this life of misery and the only way to do it was to become ill. So sad...

 

One thing that most walk away spouses don't understand is a relationship is work!

 

What if one does not want to work on it? This seems to be the case here!

 

You seem like a smart person and I am pretty sure if you found it in yourself you could find a way to help your wife find happiness within herself.

 

He is not responsible for the happiness of this wife. She is an adult, she has to find happiness herself.

[dazzle22]

I agree. Sounds like you have given this marriage many tries.

 

You could try a prolonged separation and see how that goes.. One of my good friends who is married for 34 yrs now lives in her own condo and she and her husband date when he is doing well. He has a bad temper and depression that he won't get treatment for, and she finally couldn't handle it anymore. Same thing, she would leave, then he would beg, change for awhile, then fall back into the worn old groove. She now says she will never live with him 24/7 again, but loves him and will continue to see him when he can be pleasant. Seems to work for them. So, I guess what I am saying, there are various ways to begin to get movement in a stalemate like this.

[You Go Girl]

Would you be ok with married living separately for a trial period to see if there's any staying power in her changes?

Since you're going to be paying for her life regardless, looks like you would have nothing to lose.

I have read all this post and all your replies. You are articulate and have obviously thought this through many times.

I'm not going to join the camp of stay, stay, try again. When a spouse refuses to change until their back is against the wall, there is every reason to believe it is damage control, and only to revert back to old habits later.

Your wife needs to start living. Perhaps having to make it on her own somewhat, having to at least work part-time, could create enough momentum that it would benefit her in the end. Since she won't catapult herself into productive behavior, perhaps the separation will. Maybe you no longer taking care of her is the best thing you could do for her.

[Malandro]

Well, I for one validate your wish to get out. I would even say: get out ASAP since this parody of a marriage has lasted long enough. Imagine if someone told you that you only had 2 more years left to live. Would you want to spend them with your wife?

 

........it is very difficult to shake off a habit, even a bad one.

 

 

........She is an adult, she has to find happiness herself.

 

There's a lot of bitterness in your words WITP, and while I can't say all these issues exist in our marriage, enough do that I can relate to your mother's situation. Because I've been living with a lot of internal bitterness. But now, I've decided not to be bitter anymore. I'm done with that. I'm done sitting on my butt and grumbling to myself like a bulldog. Were it anyone else with this issue, I'd be telling them deal with it and be done. But as I've learned, when you're in it, it's a bit easier to give advice than to take it. That said, I'm finally accepting my hand in this. I wasn't forcefull enough back when it may have made a difference and in affect, I was a major enabler and because of this, I do share the blame.

 

Thanks for your input Dazzle & You Go Girl. And for what it's worth, I've come to pretty much the same conclusions. In these past two weeks, my wife and I have had some very indepth and honest conversations. And as we talk, a few things have become clear.

1) We've both discussed the actions or inactions that have hurt one another, and neither of us have shirked from our hand in this.

2) Whenever I lament a grievence against her, she is quick to cling to it and blame this for everything she's done. And everything we talk about eventually ends up with her being the victim.

 

So, now that I've had time to think, and obsorb this situation, it just keeps breaking my heart. I still have very little hope, but I see how this is affecting her, and it melts my resolve. It makes me question if things were really that bad, and how could I have been so bitter. Then I force myself to think back, and remember, and I know that a few weeks can just wipe out years. And I still strongly feel that if I relent now, things will eventually go right back to where they were.

 

So You Go Girl, when you say, "Seperation may be the best thing I can do for her." That certainly seems to be the case here. First of all, she seems absolutely amazed that I haven't just let this go. But because I haven't, it's forced her to take action on a few fronts, and everything she's done is good and things that she's needed to do for some time now. She's picked up a couple of job applications. She's looked into some classes. She's looking at seperating our phone plans, back accounts, etc, etc.

 

For my part, I have stumbled onto a house near the lake that was started and never finished due to the death of the owner/builder. It looks like I'm going to get it for a very good price, and I'll then finish it out myself. And as I do so, it'll keep me busy with a project and give me purpose. And it'll quite possibly keep her motivated to do the things she needs to do.

 

And once the dust settles, we can see how we feel and I can see what progress she's made, and rather she can actually stick with it. Best case scenerio, we both end up as better people. Me because I've finally taken ownership of MY part of the situation and done something about this bitterness. And her because she's finally gotten up and embraced life.

 

It may not be the best solution, but at least it's something I think I can live with.

[WalkInThePark]

There's a lot of bitterness in your words WITP, and while I can't say all these issues exist in our marriage, enough do that I can relate to your mother's situation. Because I've been living with a lot of internal bitterness. But now, I've decided not to be bitter anymore. I'm done with that. I'm done sitting on my butt and grumbling to myself like a bulldog. Were it anyone else with this issue, I'd be telling them deal with it and be done. But as I've learned, when you're in it, it's a bit easier to give advice than to take it. That said, I'm finally accepting my hand in this. I wasn't forcefull enough back when it may have made a difference and in affect, I was a major enabler and because of this, I do share the blame.

 

Thanks for your input Dazzle & You Go Girl. And for what it's worth, I've come to pretty much the same conclusions. In these past two weeks, my wife and I have had some very indepth and honest conversations. And as we talk, a few things have become clear.

1) We've both discussed the actions or inactions that have hurt one another, and neither of us have shirked from our hand in this.

2) Whenever I lament a grievence against her, she is quick to cling to it and blame this for everything she's done. And everything we talk about eventually ends up with her being the victim.

 

So, now that I've had time to think, and obsorb this situation, it just keeps breaking my heart. I still have very little hope, but I see how this is affecting her, and it melts my resolve. It makes me question if things were really that bad, and how could I have been so bitter. Then I force myself to think back, and remember, and I know that a few weeks can just wipe out years. And I still strongly feel that if I relent now, things will eventually go right back to where they were.

 

So You Go Girl, when you say, "Seperation may be the best thing I can do for her." That certainly seems to be the case here. First of all, she seems absolutely amazed that I haven't just let this go. But because I haven't, it's forced her to take action on a few fronts, and everything she's done is good and things that she's needed to do for some time now. She's picked up a couple of job applications. She's looked into some classes. She's looking at seperating our phone plans, back accounts, etc, etc.

 

For my part, I have stumbled onto a house near the lake that was started and never finished due to the death of the owner/builder. It looks like I'm going to get it for a very good price, and I'll then finish it out myself. And as I do so, it'll keep me busy with a project and give me purpose. And it'll quite possibly keep her motivated to do the things she needs to do.

 

And once the dust settles, we can see how we feel and I can see what progress she's made, and rather she can actually stick with it. Best case scenerio, we both end up as better people. Me because I've finally taken ownership of MY part of the situation and done something about this bitterness. And her because she's finally gotten up and embraced life.

 

It may not be the best solution, but at least it's something I think I can live with.

 

I certainly understand that it is always different on the inside of a situation than on the outside. I am myself very tenacious in relationships which has BTW kept me more than once too long with someone who couldn't really offer me what I needed.

When you are personally involved, you can't just rationally decide to let go as if it would be a job that you leave for another one.

 

This said, the way you describe it, it seems to be that there is more of the same. I understood that the complaint was that you don't do enough together and now it seems like both of you will again do things... apart. Would real change in your situation not mean that you start doing things together?

 

Another thing which puzzles me: does it not irritate you that she only takes action when you threaten to leave. That would bug me. I mean, isn't it a lot more rewarding if your partner does something because has noticed that it is important for you, rather than only take action when you have already reached the point of no return?