Are labels important?

[lolapalooza]

I find the terms "reformed" and "unapologetic" to be very offensive, and not helpful in describing another LS member.

 

I had an affair. I wanted more, so I ended it. I would not have another affair, nor would I encourage another to do so. I am neither "reformed", nor am I an "Other Woman" or a fomer mistress. I am a woman, who in the journey of life, had a relationship with a committed person.

 

I do not wish to re-hash the "Reformed Other Women" or the "Unapologetic MM" threads. Please do not use this thread to do that.

I do wish to discuss the need for labeling and what purpose if any, does it serve?

 

I look forward to reading your thoughts.

Edited April 11, 2010 by lolapalooza

[jj33]

I think there is a difference between someone describing themself as unapologetic (or their partner AP or married partner). It is another for someone to "throw stones" as it were by calling someone else unapologetic or reformed.

 

That being said this is a virtual realm and the term "reformed" does seem to fit in many cases. If you feel that you personally have been singled out its one thing. But to complain about how other people express their views is another - its an open forum.

 

So long as "stones" are not being thrown at anyone I dont see the harm. Stereotypes exist in all arenas.

[lolapalooza]

I've not been referred to as anything (yet), and that's the way I like it. If I wish to refer to myself as "unapologetic" or anything else, that is MY perogative, not some strangers on an open forum. Yet, I've seen more of this than I care to, and it's usually done in a very passive aggressive, mean spirited manner, not in a helpful manner.

So that begs my original question, why do some find labeling important?

[anne1707]

I have been labelled (much to my dislike). I think it is sometimes done as an attempt to undermine because people may not like what you are saying. By calling someone a "reformed WS" (as I have) then it seems to suggest that I have lost the understanding of what it is like to be in an affair or that whatever feelings I and the ex-OM had were not real therefore what I may have to say should be discounted.

 

However the way I say it is that I am a former WS. Nothing more, nothing less. No better, no worse than anybody else here.

[MizzBlue72]

I think labeling in any form is bad - and not just in regards to OM/OW. Labels place people into categories, into a nice and tidy box. Most people do not fit into any one stereotype or label.

[crazycatlady]

I find the terms "reformed" and "unapologetic" to be very offensive, and not helpful in describing another LS member.

 

I had an affair. I wanted more, so I ended it. I would not have another affair, nor would I encourage another to do so. I am neither "reformed", nor am I an "Other Woman" or a fomer mistress. I am a woman, who in the journey of life, had a relationship with a committed person.

 

I do not wish to re-hash the "Reformed Other Women" or the "Unapologetic MM" threads. Please do not use this thread to do that.

I do wish to discuss the need for labeling and what purpose if any, does it serve?

 

I look forward to reading your thoughts.

 

When they are labels we have given ourselves then its to help people see where we are coming from, or to give a general understanding of it. When its labels people are giving us, then maybe its something we need to step back and look at ourselves for to see if there might perhaps be a ring of truth in there. If there isn't, then you shrug it off. Never give another person the power to define you, especially if you disagree with it. If it has a ring of truth in there, and you don't like it, use it as an oppertunity to change.

 

I think people take other's opinions way too much to heart. I can be guilty of it at times but I try never to let another's opinion define ME.

 

CCL

[ADF]

To a certain extent, labeling is unavoidable. Labels are one of the tools we use to frame the world so that we can describe and understand it. We simply can't do without them. If we tried to treat every event as wholly unique, we would have to invent a whole new set of vocabulary for every situation. Communication would become impossible.

 

That said, not all labels are equally helpful. You've every right to challenge those who would called you a "reformed other woman" or whatever. But I'll tell you one thing. No one is going to call you a "woman who in the jounrey of life had a relationship with a committed person." Not only is that far too unweildy, it reeks of euphamistic rationalization.

[jthorne]

I've been referred to as "reformed" on these boards before. I know EXACTLY who I am, I don't need to step back and study myself.

I shrug it off as ridiculous. It says more about the insecurity of the person giving the label than it does me.

[jennie-jennie]

When I first came to LS, I was very confused by the resemblance of some OW to BSs. It was very easy to mistake one for another, which these OW were more than happy to point out. When a helpful member of LS described these OW as reformed OW, my confusion cleared. It was indeed very helpful in orientating myself here on LS.

 

Since then I try to provide this information for other newcomers who seem to be as confused as I once was.

[anne1707]

Since then I try to provide this information for other newcomers who seem to be as confused as I once was.

 

But isn't that you casting your judgement on posters and telling others what to think rather than letting them come to their own opinion?

[ADF]

I've been referred to as "reformed" on these boards before. I know EXACTLY who I am, I don't need to step back and study myself.

I shrug it off as ridiculous. It says more about the insecurity of the person giving the label than it does me.

 

Well, if you know EXACTLY who you are, you are way ahead of the majority of the human race. I don't know how you know what insecurities the person who labeled you has, but if you think you do, fine.

[jennie-jennie]

The reason I call myself an unapologetic other woman is as a political stance. I want to show that I am not ashamed of and find nothing to apologize for with being an OW. By using this label I want to give an impulse to others to think about whether there actually is indeed something to be apologetic or ashamed about with being the OW or not.

 

In the discussions I have had with my MM we have also discussed if unapologetic is a term which can be used about the MM/MW as well.

[bentnotbroken]

Bitter, judgemental,black and white, rigid, angry BS. If I left anything out I am sure it will be added. None of these labels affect who I am or my view of life. If someone needs to label me to feel good about themselves and their choices....I can live with that. A label doesn't equal who I am.

[whichwayisup]

I think labeling in any form is bad - and not just in regards to OM/OW.

 

Then what would you call a woman who is single who is having an affair with a MM? Not the OW? What would you call the wife of the MM who found out her husband cheated? Not a betrayed wife?

 

You're talking about the stigma attached TO the name, not the actual name OW.

 

OW means OTHER woman. Sorry, but I don't feel that's labelling someone. An OW or OW IS an OW or an OM in an affair senario.

 

Unless I'm missing the point of this thread?

[TaraMaiden]

bentnotbroken has it on the mark, in my opinion.

We are all carrying labels from the word go...From the moment we refer to ourselves as ladies, women or girls, we evoke slightly different images.... but all labels, without exception, are superfluous. They might describe what we are.

Nothing though, defines WHO you are.

 

Only you know that.

 

And 'that' - is an ever-changing parameter....

[crazycatlady]

bentnotbroken has it on the mark, in my opinion.

We are all carrying labels from the word go...From the moment we refer to ourselves as ladies, women or girls, we evoke slightly different images.... but all labels, without exception, are superfluous. They might describe what we are.

Nothing though, defines WHO you are.

 

Only you know that.

 

And 'that' - is an ever-changing parameter....

 

See I'm not sure it is superflous. While WHO we are is known only fully to ourselves (if we are lucky) partly to our friends and family, and minorly to outsiders, how we label ourselves is a way we tell others who we are allowing them insight into our thoughts and minds and personalities.

 

Its not just labels, its our look, our avatars even tell something of what and who we are, our nicknames on here.

 

When someone puts a label on us, while we might very much disagree with it, we need to look at it, examine it and ponder if there just might be some truth in what is said. Now sometimes there isn't, but often times there is a reason why someone is labeling us a certain way. And if its not a way we wish we be labeled, then maybe we need to look more closely at why they think that way about us. Its part of leading a well examined life.

 

While I might know the type of person I feel myself to be, if I am not getting that across to everyone else, then maybe I'm not that person. Or maybe there some areas that I need to work on to be the person I want to get across.

 

So superflous? Maybe not. I do think its something we all should consider. And without defensive feelings.

 

CCL

[pureinheart]

I find the terms "reformed" and "unapologetic" to be very offensive, and not helpful in describing another LS member.

 

I had an affair. I wanted more, so I ended it. I would not have another affair, nor would I encourage another to do so. I am neither "reformed", nor am I an "Other Woman" or a fomer mistress. I am a woman, who in the journey of life, had a relationship with a committed person.

 

I do not wish to re-hash the "Reformed Other Women" or the "Unapologetic MM" threads. Please do not use this thread to do that.

I do wish to discuss the need for labeling and what purpose if any, does it serve?

 

I look forward to reading your thoughts.

 

Hi Lola,

 

It's hard for me not to re-hash this issue due to the fact that these two particular threads (and a couple of others) actually opened the door for much recovery concerning the issues I was facing, they cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had.

 

Lola, we are who we are, we all have victories and make mistakes, it is simply a part of life.

 

It's interesting that you brought this up as me and a friend of mine did a study on "shame" and the affects of it. Our findings were quite scary, people have done a multitude of "sins" behind it or the affects of it. Self destruction can be a deriviative of shame...certain phrases/wording can give us understanding that remove shame.

 

As humans, we will do what is considered right and what is wrong, IT IS a fact of the human condition, and as for me, I refuse NOT to walk in condemnation any longer...

[Heather1]

Well...I got labeled last year sometime as a cake eater. It was like a scary movie, everyone on it posted I was a CAKE EATER (yes all caps, over & over). This was really offensive to me, but I think it was because xOM & I wanted only what we had together & agreed to the way things were with no plans to leave our spouses & I couldn't figure out why he kept breaking it off.

Maybe the labels are just to get a feel of where you're at & who you can relate to? This is not something I'd ever do again either.....but I was surprised how I could compartmentalize & was surprised my xOM couldn't.

[pureinheart]

Well...I got labeled last year sometime as a cake eater. It was like a scary movie, everyone on it posted I was a CAKE EATER (yes all caps, over & over). This was really offensive to me, but I think it was because xOM & I wanted only what we had together & agreed to the way things were with no plans to leave our spouses & I couldn't figure out why he kept breaking it off.

Maybe the labels are just to get a feel of where you're at & who you can relate to? This is not something I'd ever do again either.....but I was surprised how I could compartmentalize & was surprised my xOM couldn't.

 

Hi Heather...wow

 

I think some labels, such as what you describe here are just plain rude and desciptive of rude, while others are a description of a particular belief.

 

Your experience helped to shape you...my God, it would be wonderful if we could all be perfect, and my idea of "perfection" is different from anothers.

 

Actually, it is our decsion to make if we "made" a "mistake" or not.

 

Some labels are demeaning and meant to demean...intentional, others a description.

[BB07]

Some labels are demeaning and meant to demean...intentional, others a description.

 

 

Great explanation pureinheart and that sums it up excellently.

[crazycatlady]

Hi Heather...wow

 

I think some labels, such as what you describe here are just plain rude and desciptive of rude, while others are a description of a particular belief.

 

Your experience helped to shape you...my God, it would be wonderful if we could all be perfect, and my idea of "perfection" is different from anothers.

 

Actually, it is our decsion to make if we "made" a "mistake" or not.

 

Some labels are demeaning and meant to demean...intentional, others a description.

 

Even the labels that are demeaning and meant to demean tells us something. It could tell us something about the person making them, about ourselves that maybe we don't want to see, about the situation that has caused them to be said. Mostly I think they tell us about the other person, at least that's my hope when I hear the negative ones. But I do try to make sure that I'm coming across how I want to come across when I hear them about me. Especially on the internet when its hard to get things across sometimes.

 

CCL

[Heather1]

that's probably true, and that particular thread where they went off on me was removed. This is an emotional subject for people & I'm sure a huge percentage of people can't understand how we'd get into this spot in the first place...so let's put a label on it. I certainly wasn't looking for this! My personal reasoning for not wanting "more" is because I think it would cause a lot of pain to a lot of people to get from A to B with him. I was happy with the way things were. I don't really think that's cake eating, I think it's being as respectful as possible for the situation I've found myself in & making sure if anyone gets hurt, it will only be me. That has truly turned out to be the case.

 

But I swear, because of all this Jesse/TW/JE media it looks like every OW is labeled as a skanky bimbo.

[Susmay]

We assign labels to ourselves and others all the time. Mostly these are useful in everyday life.

 

In these forums the label Reformed OW has been applied not only to former OW, but even BWs and WSs have been described as being just like ROW. The intention was clearly to denigrate and discredit the opinions of people who disagreed with the Unapologetic OW view.

 

From where I sit it looks like the unapologetic OW are in the minority (on this forum) and seek to discredit the views of everyone else.

[Fallen Angel]

We assign labels to ourselves and others all the time. Mostly these are useful in everyday life.

 

In these forums the label Reformed OW has been applied not only to former OW, but even BWs and WSs have been described as being just like ROW. The intention was clearly to denigrate and discredit the opinions of people who disagreed with the Unapologetic OW view.

 

From where I sit it looks like the unapologetic OW are in the minority (on this forum) and seek to discredit the views of everyone else.

 

Since I think I was the originator of the term reformed OW, and I also consider myself Unapologetic OW, I want to address this.

 

I patently deny what you are saying is the reason I used the term reformed OW. I used it not to discredit anyone's views, but to describe a mindset.

 

I look at a "refomed" OW somewhat like a "born again" Christian. I see them as someone who was a follower of one way of life, until that didn't fit into their plans anymore, and then they changed their mindset. Howvere, after they no longer wished to persue their new way of life, they revert to their former beliefs that anyone who does not walk the straight and narrow path that they are once again on, are heathens. They are unable to see thier own plight in other people going through what they once went through. They tend to be more rigid in defining all OW as less than moral, and all MM as selfish cake-eaters.

 

It is a self-preservation technique. They can look upon their past behaviour which is something they once despised, and say "I despise it again, because I am "reformed"!!! In that way, they have "cleansed themselves" in everyones eyes, but most importantly their own. By speaking out most loudly against the very sin that they were guilty of, they can claim redemption.

 

I say it is self-preservation because I believe that for many "reformed" OW, it is the only way in which they are able to forgive themselves. And they must forgive themselves in order to fully heal from their experience.

 

I do not use that term to cast a bad light on people I consider "reformed", I simply use it to explain the somewhat hard to understand rigidity in someone who one would think could better understand what I am feeling.

 

As to being Unapologetic, I do not use that term to mean that I believe being in an affair is a good thing. I use it to mean that I feel no shame in loving someone and accepting love from someone who freely offered me that love, despite his maritial status.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Fallen Angel

[Susmay]

Since I think I was the originator of the term reformed OW, and I also consider myself Unapologetic OW, I want to address this.

 

I patently deny what you are saying is the reason I used the term reformed OW. I used it not to discredit anyone's views, but to describe a mindset.

 

I look at a "refomed" OW somewhat like a "born again" Christian. I see them as someone who was a follower of one way of life, until that didn't fit into their plans anymore, and then they changed their mindset. Howvere, after they no longer wished to persue their new way of life, they revert to their former beliefs that anyone who does not walk the straight and narrow path that they are once again on, are heathens. They are unable to see thier own plight in other people going through what they once went through. They tend to be more rigid in defining all OW as less than moral, and all MM as selfish cake-eaters.

 

It is a self-preservation technique. They can look upon their past behaviour which is something they once despised, and say "I despise it again, because I am "reformed"!!! In that way, they have "cleansed themselves" in everyones eyes, but most importantly their own. By speaking out most loudly against the very sin that they were guilty of, they can claim redemption.

 

I say it is self-preservation because I believe that for many "reformed" OW, it is the only way in which they are able to forgive themselves. And they must forgive themselves in order to fully heal from their experience.

 

I do not use that term to cast a bad light on people I consider "reformed", I simply use it to explain the somewhat hard to understand rigidity in someone who one would think could better understand what I am feeling.

 

As to being Unapologetic, I do not use that term to mean that I believe being in an affair is a good thing. I use it to mean that I feel no shame in loving someone and accepting love from someone who freely offered me that love, despite his maritial status.

 

This is a good example of why I wrote what I did.