"nice guys" = not that nice

[skydiveaddict]

Sorry Shadow. didnt mean to hj your thread. I was simply trying to give an example of an "outwardly confident man"

[Rorschach]

I should have known this thread would get hijacked.

 

So let's just ignore the other people.

 

Do I fit your description of a nice guy? I treat people I respect with respect, I treat people I don't respect with no respect of course. I couldn't be with anybody I didn't respect so of course I would say I treat anybody I'm with well. But I am a person with my own ideas and I don't take kindly when my girlfriend just wants to have everything her way. So I would not describe myself as a doormat.

 

Nor would I describe myself as desperate, I haven't had so much as a date in 6 months and because of that I might come across as very enthusiastic but that will die quickly if I can ever get into the swing of regularly dating people rather than the sporadic schedule I currently have.

 

As for clingy, I do really enjoy the company of women I have an interest in from a dating standpoint, especially when we first meet, but that is just really an extension of me liking you, and will fade with time. And if I get a sense that you need some space, i have no problem giving it to you.

 

So in your opinion, although I would describe myself as nice to people, do I sound like a 'nice guy'? Maybe 'good guy' would be a better phrase.

[Engadget]

Not really: you're either confident or not, clingy or not, outgoing or not, subdued or not etc...

 

That's not true, at all. Things aren't all black and white.

[shadowplay]

So let's just ignore the other people.

 

Do I fit your description of a nice guy? I treat people I respect with respect, I treat people I don't respect with no respect of course. I couldn't be with anybody I didn't respect so of course I would say I treat anybody I'm with well. But I am a person with my own ideas and I don't take kindly when my girlfriend just wants to have everything her way. So I would not describe myself as a doormat.

 

Nor would I describe myself as desperate, I haven't had so much as a date in 6 months and because of that I might come across as very enthusiastic but that will die quickly if I can ever get into the swing of regularly dating people rather than the sporadic schedule I currently have.

 

As for clingy, I do really enjoy the company of women I have an interest in from a dating standpoint, especially when we first meet, but that is just really an extension of me liking you, and will fade with time. And if I get a sense that you need some space, i have no problem giving it to you.

 

So in your opinion, although I would describe myself as nice to people, do I sound like a 'nice guy'? Maybe 'good guy' would be a better phrase.

 

Try to be honest in answering these questions. How in touch are you with your needs? Do you ever find that you neglect your needs in an attempt to please/help somebody else? Would you describe yourself at all as a people pleaser? Are you suppressed in any way or out of touch with what you want, and do you find it easy to compartmentalize emotions when you need to? Do your emotions ever seem black and white -- they'll be super strong and then suddenly go out?

[Rorschach]

Try to be honest in answering these questions. How in touch are you with your needs? Do you ever find that you neglect your needs in an attempt to please/help somebody else? Would you describe yourself at all as a people pleaser? Are you suppressed in any way or out of touch with what you want, and do you find it easy to compartmentalize emotions when you need to? Do your emotions ever seem black and white -- they'll be super strong and then suddenly go out?

 

How in touch are you with your needs?

Very, I know what I want.

 

Do you ever find that you neglect your needs in an attempt to please/help somebody else?

I was raised in a family where 'if mama aint happy, aint nobody happy' so given a choice between something I don't care much about and putting up with an annoyed woman, I'll let it go. But I put my foot down a good 50% of the time, damn it I like onions on my pizza!

 

Would you describe yourself at all as a people pleaser?

People pleaser? no, the ONLY person I go out of my way for AT ALL, would be my girl, because I believe compromise is important. Other people can go take a leap.

 

Are you suppressed in any way or out of touch with what you want, and do you find it easy to compartmentalize emotions when you need to?

Don't know what you mean by compartmentalizing emotions, but no I generally have a good idea about what I want and how I feel about things and I'm not afraid to bring it up if I deem it important. But to qualify that I do on occasion not bring things up just because I don't deem it important enough and in that sense I might just 'let people get their way', but it's not an all the time thing.

 

Do your emotions ever seem black and white -- they'll be super strong and then suddenly go out?

I wouldn't say so, I can be emotional at times (I still cry at forrest gump haha, not very manly I know) but on the whole I'm pretty mellow.

[shadowplay]

How in touch are you with your needs?

Very, I know what I want.

 

Do you ever find that you neglect your needs in an attempt to please/help somebody else?

I was raised in a family where 'if mama aint happy, aint nobody happy' so given a choice between something I don't care much about and putting up with an annoyed woman, I'll let it go. But I put my foot down a good 50% of the time, damn it I like onions on my pizza!

 

Would you describe yourself at all as a people pleaser?

People pleaser? no, the ONLY person I go out of my way for AT ALL, would be my girl, because I believe compromise is important. Other people can go take a leap.

 

Are you suppressed in any way or out of touch with what you want, and do you find it easy to compartmentalize emotions when you need to?

Don't know what you mean by compartmentalizing emotions, but no I generally have a good idea about what I want and how I feel about things and I'm not afraid to bring it up if I deem it important. But to qualify that I do on occasion not bring things up just because I don't deem it important enough and in that sense I might just 'let people get their way', but it's not an all the time thing.

 

Do your emotions ever seem black and white -- they'll be super strong and then suddenly go out?

I wouldn't say so, I can be emotional at times (I still cry at forrest gump haha, not very manly I know) but on the whole I'm pretty mellow.

 

If everything you say is true, you don't fit the "nice guy" mold I was describing. But keep in mind that people aren't very good at judging themselves.

[Rorschach]

If everything you say is true, you don't fit the "nice guy" mold I was describing. But keep in mind that people aren't very good at judging themselves.

 

Thats true, I wonder about myself sometimes, mostly just because I think people should treat each other right and I get mad at jaywalkers haha

 

Then again I am stubborn as a mule about what i want sometimes too, which I guess kicks me out.

[Rorschach]

Stubborn people are trash.

 

I have to admit, I laughed.

[MrNate]

It's great you're going for confident guys Shadow.

 

Testosterone is what makes a man.

 

Nice guys (not the good nice) run from it.

Jerks embrace it, but controlled by it.

 

Great guys CONTROL it. That's where the confidence comes from. The reason why women go with jerks is because they're not afraid to be a man. And i feel a woman would rather be with a man who embraces his masculinity, but can be very troublesome; than be with an androgynous nice guy who is a constant nag.

 

That's what I think anyways.

 

NOTE: This post is not directed towards anyone in this thread. This is just simply what I think.

[EasyHeart]

In fact I don't think men like this know how to handle someone who genuinely accepts them, because they're so used to rejection. Being loved by someone throws them for a loop. Usually they'll come on too strong, act clingy, and scare a girl off. But if a woman sticks around, they don't know how to handle it.

So basically, you're saying that they act exactly like women?

[tigressA]

I've found that those who explicitly describe themselves as "nice guys" really aren't nice at all, and since my most recent experience with that type, I dutifully avoid them. If you're really a nice guy, you shouldn't have to say it--it should come through in your words and especially your actions.

[Woggle]

So basically, you're saying that they act exactly like women?

 

Pretty much. I do think that many men after being used and abused so much by women have a hard time believing it is real when they find one who loves them for who they are.

[gypsy_nicky]

shadow I think you should look for 'stable' men who complement your life.

 

The way I see it, the 'nice' guy and jerk are two ends of the same spectrum: They both want control and do it through manipulation. While the nice guy is better at this by passive aggressive tactics, the jerk uses aggressive charisma.

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

I've always believe the "nice guy" to be the male-equivalent of the girl who wants a serious boyfriend but is always getting used for one-night-stands by players. Anyone agree?

[Pfiend101]

I've been told I'm a nice guy. However I am confident with myself and my life. I haven't had many girlfriends. I am very picky though. My looks are slightly above average. The women with low self esteem run away to the jerks/players. If a woman sticks around for awhile and doesnt play any stupid high school games I will pursue it.

 

I refuse to treat women without respect or be a "bad boy". If a woman wants to be with a jerk its her loss. I have my sh*t together and enjoy the company of someone else who does. I'm done going after these party girls.

[phineas]

I've found that those who explicitly describe themselves as "nice guys" really aren't nice at all, and since my most recent experience with that type, I dutifully avoid them. If you're really a nice guy, you shouldn't have to say it--it should come through in your words and especially your actions.

 

I was thinking this.

I once saw a 24yr old co-worker tell a 17yr old co-worker that he was a "nice guy"

 

A week later I hear he took her virginity & was telling everyone around work all the different places & positions he doing her in.

 

A month later she was pregnant & he just disappeared.

So yeah, "i'm a nice guy" is basically line if your using it to pick up a woman.

[Isolde]

Shadow, if you're going to look for a "type" to target (and there are always so many exceptions to types), I'd say someone over 30 might be a better fit for you.

[grogster]

People do not have neat, self-limiting, static erotic personalities. In the mating tussle, as in every aspect interpersonal dynamics, there's layered complexity and mixed motive.

 

Although it makes for neat , tidy, expression on message boards and in conversation, the jerk vs. nice guy dichotomy is plain silly. It's a false dichotomy that ignores the nuanced situational dynamics.

 

People do what they do for many reasons--especially while playing the mating game. Fortunately, people in real life are not reducible to single categories, no matter how good it makes the labeler feel.

[sagetalk]

 

1. At least based on my relationship experience.

 

2.I'm starting to think there was a reason these guys were rejected by other women, because they're weak...and you can't count on people who are weak to treat you well.

 

3. Time to adjust my people picker and go for more outwardly confident men.

 

1. Nice guys are nice, guys pretending to be nice guys are not nice. Very important concept to grasp.

 

2. By weak to mean character or personality? If weak character yes, if weak personality then no. Most aggressive males have weak character, never assume a "strong" guy is any more reliable than a "weak" guy. The key is their character not their muscles or their aggression.

 

3. That will not save you from anything. Men can fake confidence just as easy as they fake niceness. Look for character: telling the truth, supports/loves his family, helps others, look at how he treats women he isn't attracted to. Those areas are far more important.

[carhill]

Time to adjust my people picker and go for more outwardly confident men.

 

Shadow, I didn't realize this last BF who ended things poorly wasn't outwardly confident. From reading, he seemed like a loving, understanding and supportive BF and things went horribly wrong (on his side) in the end. My sympathies.

 

My take on the above quote is that I would modify it to read, instead of 'outwardly confident', to read 'compatible' men. Confidence is but one aspect of a person's total personality. I think Grogster's short but very descriptive posting hit the nail right on the head. IMO, you're looking for a mix of personality attributes which are compatible with your own, adjunct to compatible communication and affection styles. All are important to a healthy, long-lived relationship.

 

When we went through MC, we never focused at all on 'people-pickers', but upon the essential issues and compatibilities in the M. It was through that process that I discovered how out of whack my people-picker was, even though, originally, I had thought stbx and I were quite compatible. It was an interesting process and I learned a lot. If you decide to begin therapy again, IMO, the people-picker thing would be a great issue to get into. I hope it works out for you

[EasyHeart]

I've always believe the "nice guy" to be the male-equivalent of the girl who wants a serious boyfriend but is always getting used for one-night-stands by players. Anyone agree?

Absolutely right. And what do these people all have in common? Low self-esteem.

 

I can't tell you how many women I've met who SAY they want a long-term relationship with a good stable man, but every guy they date is emotionally unavailable, and every 'relationship' they have lasts a couple months at most. And if they ever do meet an emotionally healthy man, they assume he's not interested in them romantically because he treats them with respect and doesn't try to grab their boobs on the first date. Obviously, a guy like that can't be attracted to them, because men who "love" you are supposed to treat you like crap and use you for sex. And if a guy really cares about you, he'll say "I love you" by the second date.

 

"Nice" girls are just as bad as "nice" guys.

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

Absolutely right. And what do these people all have in common? Low self-esteem.

 

I can't tell you how many women I've met who SAY they want a long-term relationship with a good stable man, but every guy they date is emotionally unavailable, and every 'relationship' they have lasts a couple months at most. And if they ever do meet an emotionally healthy man, they assume he's not interested in them romantically because he treats them with respect and doesn't try to grab their boobs on the first date. Obviously, a guy like that can't be attracted to them, because men who "love" you are supposed to treat you like crap and use you for sex. And if a guy really cares about you, he'll say "I love you" by the second date.

 

"Nice" girls are just as bad as "nice" guys.

 

 

Okay, the parts in bold, I just find ridiculous!

 

First off, what's wrong with dating for only a couple of months? That's a pretty long time. That's how long most relationships are.

 

And anyone who says they "love" someone, guy or girl, only by date 2 would be viewed as a creep and a psychopath by the "loved" one. How can you learn to love someone in only 2 dates?

[EasyHeart]

I'm not talking about people who date a couple months, gradually get to know each other, and decide that this isn't the right match for them. That's normal and healthy. (And personally, I don't call that a 'relationship', I call that 'dating', but whatever).

 

The women I'm talking about are the women who meet a guy who comes on really strong and "sweeps them off their feet", after a week (or often, one date) they're "in love", after two weeks they're "in a relationship", after three weeks they're picking out wedding gowns, and after four weeks they're emotional trainwrecks because the guy announces that he doesn't want to get "too serious".

 

And when they meet the next guy, they do the same thing all over again. . . .

[Engadget]

I'm not talking about people who date a couple months, gradually get to know each other, and decide that this isn't the right match for them. That's normal and healthy. (And personally, I don't call that a 'relationship', I call that 'dating', but whatever).

 

The women I'm talking about are the women who meet a guy who comes on really strong and "sweeps them off their feet", after a week (or often, one date) they're "in love", after two weeks they're "in a relationship", after three weeks they're picking out wedding gowns, and after four weeks they're emotional trainwrecks because the guy announces that he doesn't want to get "too serious".

 

And when they meet the next guy, they do the same thing all over again. . . .

 

Yes...those girls worry me actually. I haven't met a lot, but one was "in love" with one guy, then "in love" with another guy two weeks later. I know she believed it too.

[PJKino]

I can undertsand what you're saying im not sure how id do in a relationship to be honest i might be the same way..

 

Myself im awful with women never had any luck so in turn its hard to have high self esteem with the opposite sex its just human nature without good results..

 

So if a women finally shows interest in me and i get in a relationship while id never be a complete doormat and let her take my integrity i may put up with a little more then a guy in a relationship whos great with women and knows if this doesnt work out he can easily get another one so he may not put up with as much bs as someone like me..

 

Wheter its right or wrong i might be thinking in the back of my mind it might be years before i get another women so i may have to put up with more and be a little less picky in a relationship then somebody with tons of options..

 

Right or wrong im just being honest..

Edited April 11, 2010 by PJKino