PWSX3 Posted April 17, 2010 Posted April 17, 2010 Gunny, I heard this the other day & it really makes since. We take our lawnmowers in for a tuneup, we take our vehicles in for a tuneup, etc. etc. so why don't people do that with their life & or there marriages???? Everyone seems they can fix "them" by themselves & don't need to see someone once in a while. I'm proud you took the chance & looked at yourself. Good luck with the stop drinking, that has be one hard obstacle to beat, but I know you can do it....
You Go Girl Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 [quote=Gunny376;2753658 I wonder sometimes if I'm just not spent and used up goods, no longer fit for so called "nomal" society? Me? I'm doing OK, and getting better! No, you're not spent and used goods at all--you're a wonderful person who has really lifted the spirits of many people on LS, me included. There's no such thing as spent and used up--there's life, humanity, character, heart, and soul. To be human is to be touched by life, and you have been touched by life many times over. How are you doing gunny? I hope all is still well and improving. And congrats for tackling the alcohol--no matter if you've succeeded completely at this point or not--you're looking that devil in the eye.
Owl Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 I wonder sometimes if I'm just not spent and used up goods, no longer fit for so called "nomal" society? Songs like Bruce Sprienstein's "Born In The USA!" and Charlie Daniels "Still Living In Saigon" come to mind. Me? I'm doing OK, and getting better! I can relate, Gunny. I'd started several times to type a long response to this, but even just looking at the things that I was typing, it wasn't anything that I wanted to share, or wanted others to try to understand. I'd agree that it's not "used up", or "not fit". But its a darn sight harder to try to 'fit' after some of the things you've been through. I know that's how I feel many times.
You Go Girl Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 OWL--I absolutely LOVE your Yoda quote. I have it pasted on my computer, and now it is my mantra.
Owl Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 Thanks YYG. It's always been a favorite of mine, and I've found that it tends to be very applicable to many people who come here on LS for advice. They TRY...because they know that TRYING leaves the option of failing open. If you just DO...no option for failing. You don't have that "out" to let yourself fail.
Author Gunny376 Posted April 26, 2010 Author Posted April 26, 2010 (edited) Interesting enough the Yoda quote was an ingrained part of my being. It just was. I never questioned it? The whole no guts no glory thing. That's all well and good when your in certain situations. Its the 'latter' that comes back crawling and bites you in the @zz! There are things that I simply can't do anymore, places I can't go to, things I can't do anymore. Movies I can't watch. Simple things I see, hear, experience bring me to tears. Surviors remorse I guess ~ Hell I'm just glad to still be alive. Death and I are drinking buddies. The Marines advertise that the 'change' is forever! Yea no kidding! The meds are kicking in and my attitude, perspective on things have changed. I'm drinking less ~ a lot less (99% less) ! The meds help a lot. Before I was walking through Life and hating it and everyone in it! I had anger and anger management problems. Wouldn't take a little of nothing to set me off! It was the PTSD. I would break down and cry over stupid stuff! Because it would send me back to sometime I'd seen or experienced? Water? You've no idea how hard it is for most of the world it is just to get drinking water, let alone to cook with. wash clothes with. Water is gold! Perhaps I should be ashamed or at least embarrsed to accept and admitt my shortcomings amd weaknesss? I gave my all and all that I had at the time! I gave the best I had at the time! I gave 150% at the time. Now I'm paying the butcher's bill Edited April 26, 2010 by Gunny376
Crusoe Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 Perhaps I should be ashamed or at least embarrsed to accept and admitt my shortcomings amd weaknesss? Absolutely not.
Author Gunny376 Posted April 26, 2010 Author Posted April 26, 2010 Absolutely not. Thank you! Marines are trained as Spartians. Adapt, improvise and overcome~ Never give up! When things get bad? You get a junk yard, bull dog crazy! of mebtailty! It was just the last thirity years of putting it aside (PTSD) that came crammng down own mde
mimidarlin Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Two comments are hitting home with me from this string. Gunny...trying to just pick up, head down, move on...it will all get better if I just keep trucking on. Won't it? Sometimes it doesn't. It reminded me of when I sank into a dark pit of despair. I had been in one before and was sure that I would recognize it coming at me again. It was sneaky and I was so far in the rabbit hole that I didn't know which way was up. To think about where I was mentally at that time scares me. It took meds a few months to help me feel again. Just feel...not feel normal. I wasn't ready for counseling at the time. I wouldn't listen. Thought I could do it myself. This time my life went into crisis mode I was already on the meds. Now I know that I can't go off of them ever again. Family and personal health history indicates it wouldn't be a good idea. This time...I'm normal...grieving...sad...mad...but functioning. Still able to find joy despite the hellish year. Still able to set goals and move forward. I feel so strong compared to where I was two years ago. Now the marriage was struggling when I went into the rabbit hole before. It might have been what triggered it. Tried to be there to support the spouse during his life crisis but he withdrew. Couldn't reach him. He wouldn't seek help from me or anyone else. Looking back I think a tune up might have helped save our marriage but neither of us were at a point where we could focus on the marriage. We weren't mentally prepared or in a place where we were open to it. I highly recommend a scheduled tune up for our relationship and perspective on our own life/goals. If we wait until we are in the middle of the crisis we might not be able to listen to reason. Marriage maintenance and practicing communication might have helped save our marriage. If we make it a point to assess our needs and our partners needs on a regular basis...it could help prevent so much pain. Rambling...sorry
Author Gunny376 Posted April 27, 2010 Author Posted April 27, 2010 I agree people and relationships need tune-ups from time to time.
Author Gunny376 Posted April 27, 2010 Author Posted April 27, 2010 Two comments are hitting home with me from this string. Gunny...trying to just pick up, head down, move on...it will all get better if I just keep trucking on. Won't it? Sometimes it doesn't. It reminded me of when I sank into a dark pit of despair. I had been in one before and was sure that I would recognize it coming at me again. It was sneaky and I was so far in the rabbit hole that I didn't know which way was up. To think about where I was mentally at that time scares me. It took meds a few months to help me feel again. Just feel...not feel normal. I wasn't ready for counseling at the time. I wouldn't listen. Thought I could do it myself. This time my life went into crisis mode I was already on the meds. Now I know that I can't go off of them ever again. Family and personal health history indicates it wouldn't be a good idea. This time...I'm normal...grieving...sad...mad...but functioning. Still able to find joy despite the hellish year. Still able to set goals and move forward. I feel so strong compared to where I was two years ago. Now the marriage was struggling when I went into the rabbit hole before. It might have been what triggered it. Tried to be there to support the spouse during his life crisis but he withdrew. Couldn't reach him. He wouldn't seek help from me or anyone else. Looking back I think a tune up might have helped save our marriage but neither of us were at a point where we could focus on the marriage. We weren't mentally prepared or in a place where we were open to it. I highly recommend a scheduled tune up for our relationship and perspective on our own life/goals. If we wait until we are in the middle of the crisis we might not be able to listen to reason. Marriage maintenance and practicing communication might have helped save our marriage. If we make it a point to assess our needs and our partners needs on a regular basis...it could help prevent so much pain. Rambling...sorry Woke up and re-read your post, which in the light of a new day makes more sense than it did to begin with. Its good to hear from someone who's gone through the seeking help and getting on the meds. For so long I thought it was just me? Then I read about an Army Major who broke down and cried at a resturant becase his DS9 wouldn't eat her steak because it had sour cream on it. It sent him back to an Iraqi family with to emancipated girls who had to walk for miles just to get potable water, At twenty eight I use to lay in bed with chest pains? Stress. One morining I woke up with a knot on my forehead half the size of a golf ball. Stress. I know I'm never going to be normal again in the civilian sense. But with the meds I'm getting back to 90% of the guy that I use to be back in tha' day ~ and we're talking thirty years ago here! I'm listening to music again! Something I use to have a passion for! But didn't do so for the last tewenty years. I started this thread primarly to encourage others to trake the step to get the help they needed. And not to be ebarrsed nor ashame of doing so!
marlena Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 I started this thread primarly to encourage others to trake the step to get the help they needed. You know, Gunny, this is what makes you so special. You are always trying to help others. This is a rare quality in people nowadays. I am really glad you are feeling better and that you sought out the help you needed. Truly I wish you the best of luck. You sound like a nice guy, very authentic, who deserves a happier life.
Crusoe Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Thank you! Marines are trained as Spartians. Adapt, improvise and overcome~ Never give up! When things get bad? You get a junk yard, bull dog crazy! of mebtailty! It was just the last thirity years of putting it aside (PTSD) that came crammng down own mde And you returned home with your shield, but you're not a Spartan, you don't have to carry it forever. No shame, no doubt, no weakness, just scars, wear them with pride.
sumdude Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 (edited) I know I'm never going to be normal again in the civilian sense. But with the meds I'm getting back to 90% of the guy that I use to be back in tha' day ~ and we're talking thirty years ago here! I'm listening to music again! Something I use to have a passion for! But didn't do so for the last tewenty years. I started this thread primarly to encourage others to trake the step to get the help they needed. And not to be ebarrsed nor ashame of doing so! Gunny I haven't been through an ounce of what you have in life. I'm one of those civilians whose generally safe and peaceful life was made possible by the sacrifices of all those who have served and paid in body, life and spirit. But I can say this much. Normal? What's that? There's no such thing as normal... just being as well adjusted as possible. We're all nuts in one way or another. You've done your duty above and beyond. Thank you so much. Put down the load, there are so many there to pick it up. Edited April 27, 2010 by sumdude
Owl Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 You've got to understand how hard it is to put down that load. You learned to embrace it deeply when you first shouldered it. Somedays, it became the only thing that kept you going...even kept you alive. And now, you've carried that load for so long, and so tightly...it's part of you, whether you willed it to be so or not. You can't tell where the load ends and "you" begin. I've been a "civilian" for 10 years now. Not as long as Gunny has, for sure...but I'd be willing to hedge the guess that Gunny still doesn't FEEL like a civilian either. I've not been part of the Army for 10 years now...but being a soldier (and what I went through/did as part of it) is still a HUGE, HUGE part of what I am. Gunny, not trying to t/j you here man, and if I'm mis-speaking or over-stepping...let me know.
sumdude Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 (edited) You've got to understand how hard it is to put down that load. You learned to embrace it deeply when you first shouldered it. Somedays, it became the only thing that kept you going...even kept you alive. And now, you've carried that load for so long, and so tightly...it's part of you, whether you willed it to be so or not. You can't tell where the load ends and "you" begin. I've been a "civilian" for 10 years now. Not as long as Gunny has, for sure...but I'd be willing to hedge the guess that Gunny still doesn't FEEL like a civilian either. I've not been part of the Army for 10 years now...but being a soldier (and what I went through/did as part of it) is still a HUGE, HUGE part of what I am. Gunny, not trying to t/j you here man, and if I'm mis-speaking or over-stepping...let me know. I hope my post didn't come across as somehow minimizing the difficulty or otherwise offensive. I know I can't really understand and maybe it seemed presumptuous of me. If so I apologize. It's only that I hope for Gunny that he will find a path to some inner peace. He deserves it. I'm trying to find a way to be supportive. Edited April 29, 2010 by sumdude
Owl Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 I hope my post didn't come across as somehow minimizing the difficulty or otherwise offensive. I know I can't really understand and maybe it seemed presumptuous of me. If so I apologize. It's only that I hope for Gunny that he will find a path to some inner peace. He deserves it. I'm trying to find a way to be supportive. Not at all...not the least bit offensive, and I absolutely apologize if my post came across as defensive or offended. None of the above was intended. I just wanted to help understand the difficulty of change...
Author Gunny376 Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 First thanks for all of the support from all that have posted, it means a lot it really does. I've been retired for 15 years now and live in a rural Southern University town. The town is very 'cliquish' in that if you weren't born, schooled and raised here? Your basically an outsider. Having gone from being a career Marine to back to out here in "Civilian la~la" land has been one of the hardest things I've ever had to do and gone through in my life. Guys at work thought I was somebody they had never came across, (because they hadn't). Most people in and around here for miles and miles around have lived their whole lives never having been anywhere, done anything, seen anything. I'm not posting this in the divorce/separation section because I know there are a lot of guys and gals coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan that are coming home to the same things that I came home to. The nation wide unemployment for Vet coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan is a whopping 25%! The divorce rates in some units is as high as 70 + %. Depression, anxiety, and PTSD are rampant, combined with substance abuse (mainly alcohol) is through the roof. I just wanted those guys and gals coming back? Don't be afraid to seek out professional help and don't be hesitant to get on the meds if need be. If your still on active duty? Go out into town and get the help you need. Military psychiatrist and psychologist are not bound by any confidentiality to their patient and can testify against them in a court martial anything that you tell them. The psychologist I'm seeing says he gets a lot of referrals from an Army base 50 miles away, and an Air Force base 40 miles away. I read of an Army Major who's wife called his commanding officer, and got him help off base with a private psychologist. A lot of those that have never served in the military don't know that under certain situations and conditions they're required to sign so called "confidentiality agreements" in which they swear under oath to never discuss certain until their 30th/40th/ ~ 90th anniversary of their 99th birthday. That's a lot of stuff to carry around in your head for the next twenty, thirty, forty or fifty years. I know that they are a lot of young Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, Guardsmen, that are coming back trying to deal with what they been through with not just a single tours but multiple tours, (last I heard in the Army a year and half back, and then another year long tour. Some are on their third and fourth tours) And its not just the young bucks, I read about a 28 year veteran Army Command Sergeant Major who just mentally, emotionally, physically collapsed, after his unit lost six men in two weeks. He simply just could not go on. And there's a lot of dependent wives and girlfriends that are suffering as well as their children, especially the young ones ~ but the older ones as well. Me? I'm doing OK and getting better. The meds help a lot. Antidepressants in the morning and anxiety meds at night. At least I'm not self medicating with alcohol anymore. And I'm not going days upon days without sleep, nor laying in bed staring at the ceiling all night long. My co-workers have noticed a difference in me and in my work performance. I've mellowed out a lot and don't worry about anything ~ anymore. I've reconciled myself with the past and I'm at peace with it. I did and gave my best at the time, and know now that was all I could do. I gave 110%+ and that's all anyone can do. The anxiety drug has really help come to grips with 'survivor's remorse" and has help to put my mind at ease about a lot of things. I don't dwell on the ghost of the past, the "could'ves, should'ves, would'ves" I'm working with my psychologist on re-connecting with my adult children. You see I deployed more my last four years in the Corps than all the other sixteen put together. There was a disconnect in that they were young, and I didn't want them to worry about where I was going. But this thread really isn't about me? Its about all you young bucks coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan, your wives, your sweethearts, your parents, your aunts and uncles, your brothers and sisters, your cousins, your friends from high school and college ~ and most of all? Your children! I went through years and years of being seriously pissed off the way Vets get treated in this country. And I went through years and years of being pissed off at the world and everyone in it! And yea I've drank myself an ocean of liquor. don't be afraid to get help, and don't think its a weakness to seek out the help of a professional, nor to get on the meds. The meds I'm on? Help me get back to at least 90% of being who I use to be before I went into the Corps. No, I'm never going to ever be the guy I was before I went into the Corps and did my twenty ~ but I'm about 90% back to being who I was. Once you've dance with the Devil? You don't change him! He changes you! If I've saved one marriage, one family, one relationship, repaired and mended just one relationship, gave just one person comprehension and understanding? I've accomplished the reason I started this thread! God Bless! Guns
trippi1432 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Once you've dance with the Devil? You don't change him! He changes you! Guns Good quote Gunny! Thank you for that.
Author Gunny376 Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 Yea! There are forever more Shame imagies, words, songs imbredded in my head and mind! "Man if you freaking play that cassette tape one more time! I'm going to waste you!" Shawa Twine ~ Garth Brooths!
Author Gunny376 Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 My point is get help! Don't suffer fifteen years as I did! Don't suffer through surviors guilt as I did!! For fifteen years!
You Go Girl Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 This thread really is relevant to anyone suffering long term, and in this forum, depression is a likely culprit. I suffered a long term depression when I found out my marriage wasn't built on the foundation I thought it was. It lasted years, years of anger, resentment, and depression. Could meds have helped me? Possibly...therapy could have helped a great deal. I chose to suffer alone instead. Tough stubborn people don't seek help. Most of us know we are strong, yet-- I suffered years instead of what could have been months with counseling, and I think it's a very common thing to do--suffer it out--instead of shortening that time frame with help. So this thread is appropriate in this forum whether people are in the military or not. We all need to recognize when we're fighting a devil that has too big of a hold on us, and it happens to most people at least once in their lives--so it's relevant to everyone. So glad to hear you have traded the wrong med--alcohol, for the right meds, Gunny.
Author Gunny376 Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 Your right YGG, I was John Wayne "Old School" the trouble with trying to drink away your problems and troubles is that it can't be done. I was raised to believe a person going to see a psychologist or such had a permanent mental deficiency. Well you know what? We all do! Ain't no one going to get through nor out of this life without singing and feeling the 'blues' at least once over something or someone. I just couldn't keep going through life pissed off at the world and everyone in it. Life's too damn short. I carried the burden of a lot of things for a lot of people for a long time, much like many here, but trippi comes to mind the most. You know what? Its time for me, its time to catch the bus to Mexico, (Shawshank Redemption). Its time for me to quit living my life for others and to start living it for me. Its time to work to live and not live to work. And your right, this thread isn't about being in the military, its about if your going through hard times not being hesitant to get help. Guns
Author Gunny376 Posted May 1, 2010 Author Posted May 1, 2010 You know, Gunny, this is what makes you so special. You are always trying to help others. This is a rare quality in people nowadays. I am really glad you are feeling better and that you sought out the help you needed. Truly I wish you the best of luck. You sound like a nice guy, very authentic, who deserves a happier life. That means a lot to me! I do care! And it means a lot that you care! I appreciate that! The deamons of war are hard to ward off! Once you've daniced wth the devil you don't change him! HE CHANGES YOU!
Author Gunny376 Posted May 2, 2010 Author Posted May 2, 2010 You know, Gunny, this is what makes you so special. You are always trying to help others. This is a rare quality in people nowadays. I am really glad you are feeling better and that you sought out the help you needed. Truly I wish you the best of luck. You sound like a nice guy, very authentic, who deserves a happier life. Your words mean a lot to me! Thank you!
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