Male Empowerment Thread

[sally4sara]

I think it ties in with my belief that apart from upbringing, society doesn't value the roles that women traditionally gravitate too.

 

One can't really say what anyone naturally gravitates to if they are not given another option to gravitate towards.

 

You do have a beautiful view of men I see, and yeah, we all know that you supposedly have a really cool husband and all, but all in all, you and Woggle are cut from very similar clothes.

 

I am not. I do not think all men this or that, I can use logic and I'm not a slave to my emotions. My standards do not change because I'm mad or scared.

YOU are just getting your panties in a twist over the idea of a standard you are too weak to live up to. Set your own standard rather than feel insulted over not being able to live up to mine.

My husband IS really cool and you watch your mouth about it. You could take some lessons from him as he isn't Jesus and who he is isn't impossible for other men to aspire to. But that would defeat the point I was trying to make (that you can't seem to hear I guess cause it came from a woman) in that the only way you can feel powerful is to set your own course and standards.

[A O]

One can't really say what anyone naturally gravitates to if they are not given another option to gravitate towards

That's not the point. Understanding that whatever someone wishes to gravitate to has value, real value, that's the point.

 

YOU are just getting your panties in a twist over the idea of a standard you are too weak to live up to.

You're projecting. As for me, haven't got me undies on yet, its early morning where I am, just outta the shower with a couple of towels wrapped around me.

 

My husband IS really cool and you watch your mouth about it.

If your hubby was so cool then the strength you'd draw from that would have made whatever I said a mere blip on your radar.

 

But that would defeat the point I was trying to make (that you can't seem to hear I guess cause it came from a woman) in that the only way you can feel powerful is to set your own course and standards.

Nope, the point you make, a very good one indeed, is little different that several points I've made. The only difference being is the negativity towards men that comes with most of your points.

 

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[sally4sara]

That's not the point. Understanding that whatever someone wishes to gravitate to has value, real value, that's the point.

 

You're projecting. As for me, haven't got me undies on yet, its early morning where I am, just outta the shower with a couple of towels wrapped around me.

 

If your hubby was so cool then the strength you'd draw from that would have made whatever I said a mere blip on your radar.

 

Nope, the point you make, a very good one indeed, is little different that several points I've made. The only difference being is the negativity towards men that comes with most of your points.

 

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BS. If you'd thought my post was made by a man, you wouldn't have even paused.

 

And you can't value the roles someone chooses to set for themselves if you buy into stereotypes that are contrary to the choices they make.

 

I don't have negative views of men in general. I have negative view of people I can't respect. It has nothing to do with their gender.

 

This is why I don't wish to continue discussion with you. You are too wrapped up in the MEN VS WOMEN crap. Its like talking to 3 yr old child about quantum physics.

[A O]

BS. If you'd thought my post was made by a man, you wouldn't have even paused.

It has more to do with "you" then gender and how your views follow a very similar pattern to the aforementioned Woggle. Pattern being the operative word, not substance.

 

And you can't value the roles someone chooses to set for themselves if you buy into stereotypes that are contrary to the choices they make.

Wrong. To stereotype doesn't mean you can't value the role in hand. Its stereotypical for me to believe that the role of nurturer falls mainly on women. But that doesn't mean I don't great appreciate that role.

 

I don't have negative views of men in general. I have negative view of people I can't respect. It has nothing to do with their gender.

Well then, perhaps in the future you'll attempt to keep things as gender neutral as possible. Many 'people' are able to do this, maybe you'll become one of them soon too.

 

This is why I don't wish to continue discussion with you. You are too wrapped up in the MEN VS WOMEN crap. Its like talking to 3 yr old child about quantum physics.

I'm simply examining "your" opinions which tend to focus heavily on the negative aspects of men. I'm trying to ascertain their origins and whether they have any validity or not. I wouldn't have thought this would have deserved such a negative reaction. Really, I'm doing little different than what many people here do with poster's like Woggle for example.

 

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[sally4sara]

 

I'm simply examining "your" opinions which tend to focus heavily on the negative aspects of men.

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Try, just for a second to remember what the thread topic is and then ask yourself why I would be focusing on the negative aspects of women while participating in a thread about men. If this thread were about female empowerment, I'd be saying the same damn things about women. It is the simple fact that I am a woman and we are discussing men that has you all butt hurt and defensive rather than what I've said.

 

And I don't doubt that you value women who behave the way you think they should. I suggested that you wouldn't if they didn't behave the way you think they should. I suggested it by stating that you cannot say how they should act if you don't value them acting any differently.

Men can be just as nurturing as women, fill the same roles a woman would fill as a parent; they just don't always find that aspect as accepted by people because of stereotypical roles and the expectations that come with them. Stereotypes are a way of limiting others and deterring them from behaviors you don't wish to see.

You didn't get it, obviously. Why should I bother trying to get a point across to someone who can't comprehend what they read?

[MrNate]

Every thread on this site really does turn into a gender battle. This is depressing.

[sally4sara]

Every thread on this site really does turn into a gender battle. This is depressing.

 

No kidding. Even when you're not attacking a gender, you get accused of it.

[Pyro]

No kidding. Even when you're not attacking a gender, you get accused of it.

 

because its impossible for them to fully admit that their views are unhealthy, so they point the finger at you instead.

[A O]

Try, just for a second to remember what the thread topic is and then ask yourself why I would be focusing on the negative aspects of women while participating in a thread about men. If this thread were about female empowerment, I'd be saying the same damn things about women. It is the simple fact that I am a woman and we are discussing men that has you all butt hurt and defensive rather than what I've said.

I know what this thread as about and in responding to you (and others) I have given ideas on how people can empower themselves without resorting to highly questionable opinions of a certain gender. And some people are able to do the same more often than not, while others will drag gender into the equation more often than not...

 

And I don't doubt that you value women who behave the way you think they should.

A woman can do anything she wants. Get that first and foremost. This is not about controlling women, I am not about controlling women. It just happens to be that I've grown up around women being more nurturing than men for instance. And as time's gone by, I've become more and more appreciative of this role.

 

Men can be just as nurturing as women, fill the same roles a woman would fill as a parent; they just don't always find that aspect as accepted by people because of stereotypical roles and the expectations that come with them.

Absolutely, and that's on the rise every bit as much as women undertaking traditional male roles (think armed forces for example). And ain't that a beautiful thing. The trick is to not believe that one role is any less meaningful than the other, and even moreso, just because they've been traditionally held by a certain gender.

 

Stereotypes are a way of limiting others and deterring them from behaviors you don't wish to see. You didn't get it, obviously. Why should I bother trying to get a point across to someone who can't comprehend what they read?

I'm not getting it because I'm not anything that you somehow think I am (and lord only knows why you think this way or continually have the need to try and put me down!).

 

I am not limited by stereotypes, I understand them, I understand their place (that they're little more than a starting point borne from historically perceived behavior) and most of all, I am not afraid of them because my belief in myself outweighs how others perceive me (a central point that we both share). Most of us have been stereotyped at one point in time, if not more. But again, belief in ourselves, understanding ourselves, that will see us right.

 

 

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[A O]

because its impossible for them to fully admit that their views are unhealthy, so they point the finger at you instead.

Well there's a lot of finger pointing around here. So, if someone asks why you're pointing in a certain direction, you would think that they'd be able to answer. Obviously, that's not always the case which then leads one to assume that said finger pointing is the result of one's own bias moreso than actual reality!

 

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[sally4sara]

(and lord only knows why you think this way or continually have the need to try and put me down!).

 

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Dude, you can't call me woggle and then act like you haven't tossed out an insult. I said nothing negative about men. I have not stated that women are better than men. You insulted me so don't be so surprised when I think less of you for doing so over something I didn't do.

 

Shove off Princess.

[GoodOnPaper]

My husband IS really cool and you watch your mouth about it. You could take some lessons from him as he isn't Jesus and who he is isn't impossible for other men to aspire to. But that would defeat the point I was trying to make (that you can't seem to hear I guess cause it came from a woman) in that the only way you can feel powerful is to set your own course and standards.

 

. . . even though they could never match up to those of your SO. (You forgot to complete your implication -- I love how the evolutionary biology thinking shows through when the LS women describe their SOs.)

 

Since Jesus was brought up . . . in my mid-life religion/philosophy searching, I've come realize that we all worship something above all else -- it may not be a god, it may just be a concept -- in my case (and I think for many other guys on LS as well), it's the idea that obtaining the relationships and sex I want with women will make life worthwhile and make me worthwhile as a person. This is certainly counterproductive to male empowerment. I don't know what the remedy is. Concerning women, the best I have come up with is that if I could turn the clock back 25 years, finding someone who inspired me in some significant way would be at the top of the list.

[A O]

Dude, you can't call me woggle and then act like you haven't tossed out an insult. I said nothing negative about men. I have not stated that women are better than men. You insulted me so don't be so surprised when I think less of you for doing so over something I didn't do. Shove off Princess.

I didn't call you Woggle, I said your behavior is similar to his, as in "pattern" not substance. Rarely can you talk about matters without dragging men into the equation nor do you talk about them in a mostly balanced, positive manner. Its predictable basically.

 

Overall, our interaction has been timely as it has allowed me to both express what empowerment is all about and show it. Pot shots, just fly over my head as they do with anyone with self-belief. And while I sometimes upset people, either for real or perceived, that's rarely intentional nor something I make a habit of doing.

 

 

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[Woggle]

Being compared to me is the highest honor a person could have.

[sally4sara]

it's the idea that obtaining the relationships and sex I want with women will make life worthwhile and make me worthwhile as a person. This is certainly counterproductive to male empowerment.

 

That is what I said. Somehow this means I have a low view of all men?

 

It must mean YOU have a low view of men too!

[Engadget]

Every thread on this site really does turn into a gender battle. This is depressing.

 

That or people are so entrenched in a mindset that they go off on things that have nothing to do with what they're saying.

[GoodOnPaper]

That is what I said. Somehow this means I have a low view of all men?

 

I know that is what you said. I don't know if you have a low view of all men. I was just making an observation about how you compared your SO to the rest of us who struggle with women/sex/relationships. OK, so we're beneath him . . . whatever.

 

It must mean YOU have a low view of men too!

 

No, I only have a low view of myself. I'll go back to what I said before -- this thread is about male empowerment, but do men know what really inspires them? I'm sure most don't -- I didn't even give the matter much thought until recently, and I'm in my 40s. Learning what quality or qualities about women -- beauty, intelligence, humor, character, some combination -- actually inspires one as a man can't be a bad place to start, no matter who the man is.

[sally4sara]

I know that is what you said. I don't know if you have a low view of all men. I was just making an observation about how you compared your SO to the rest of us who struggle with women/sex/relationships. OK, so we're beneath him . . . whatever.

 

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I didn't bring up my husband; A O did. I responded to him about it so if you got a problem with it - take it up with him. I wasn't comparing my husband to you. It is a stretch to say I even compared him to A O as there is none. So what is it I did to upset you?

[GoodOnPaper]

I'm not upset. I saw an opportunity to inject my view about the thread topic -- you're the one that said that men (not just AO) should aspire to be like him.

[A O]

I didn't bring up my husband; A O did. I responded to him about it so if you got a problem with it - take it up with him. I wasn't comparing my husband to you.

I like the way you spell my moniker correctly. Yes, GoodOnPaper, don't be too perturbed, her comment was only aimed at me (for now anyway).

 

 

No, I only have a low view of myself. I'll go back to what I said before -- this thread is about male empowerment, but do men know what really inspires them? I'm sure most don't -- I didn't even give the matter much thought until recently, and I'm in my 40s.

I don't get the correlation? Being inspired and being empowered aren't the same thing. One can be inspired but still basically have a very low opinion of themself. You can use inspiration to improve how you see yourself, for sure, but yeah, I'm not quite getting the correlation as yet.

 

Learning what quality or qualities about women -- beauty, intelligence, humor, character, some combination -- actually inspires one as a man can't be a bad place to start, no matter who the man is.

Indeed, but until you're happy with yourself, then finding - and keeping - a women who possesses these fine qualities maybe a little harder to achieve than has to be.

 

 

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[GoodOnPaper]

I don't get the correlation? Being inspired and being empowered aren't the same thing.

 

I view inspiration as the bridge between knowing who you are and the empowerment to act on it. Another way to put it -- once you know and accept who you are, inspiration is the motivation to own it and act on it.

[sally4sara]

I'm not upset. I saw an opportunity to inject my view about the thread topic -- you're the one that said that men (not just AO) should aspire to be like him.

 

No, I said who he is, while very cool, is attainable to any man as he is not some Jesus type or perfect.

 

Whatever has happened to make you so sensitive that I can't even speak fondly of my own husband when someone brings him up, is unfortunate; I'm sure you didn't deserve it. I am being sincere in that I hope you rise above it and find happier days. But know that I don't want to contribute to this thread to rub salt in any wounds, but I will speak up for myself when being attacked. Nothing I say in those moments is about you or towards you.

[A O]

I view inspiration as the bridge between knowing who you are and the empowerment to act on it. Another way to put it -- once you know and accept who you are, inspiration is the motivation to own it and act on it.

I see, well I see things a little differently ( I think). I see inspiration, in some cases, being the result of self-belief - who we are inspires us (gives us confidence) to face the world basically. Looks like there isn't a s big a gulf between the two as I originally thought anyway.

 

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[Jersey Shortie]

I was just pointing out that a word like that isn't offensive in EVERY context. How many times have you written it in this thread? Is it hate speech when you say, "I don't see any academic reason for using the word 'cum dumpster'"? After all, you just wrote it out.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

I personally think the term is pretty gross, derogatory, and offensive, and I wouldn't use it outside of conversation/discussion about how gross it is. That doesn't mean it's hate speech for me to say, "I hate the term 'cum dumpster'

."

 

Yes, I don't see any academic reason to use the word. But I can see an academic reason to use the n-word if it's to teach how degrading the word itself is and not used to describe the people. "Cum dumpster" was used to describe a person. It wasn't used for any other reason.

 

When a person awarely chooses to use it, even as a term to describe how they think other's feel, that says alot. Any one of those guys could have said "these players don't have much respect for these women and just want to use them". Fine. But they themselves are the ones that have choosen to use that word. Regardless of why a player does something or treats someone, the vocab they choose to use represents *them*, not any hypothetical "player".

 

I do get what you are saying, I just disagree that the context used here was "okay". Saying " ihate the word cum-dumpster" and saying "these women are cum dumpsters" or "these guys think of these women as just cum dumpsters" is a far cry from your comments about hating the word.

 

I did go back and do that experinment that someone else suggested about replacing it with the "n-word". I found it just as offensive. On a side note, it's interesting that none of us really even want to say the n-word, perfering to use "n-word". But even though we admit that "cum dump" is just as offensive, we've all used it in full term and didn't say things lke "cd-word".

[Pfiend101]

LOL dont want to start a flame war, nvm

Edited April 10, 2010 by Pfiend101