Male Empowerment Thread

[phineas]

The big issue is that men today have no self respect and are quick to let a woman walk all over them.

 

If it were only so black & white.

I am the "nice guy" the kind of women attracted to jerks zero in on me &

assume because I'm not a jerk I have no self respect & will let them walk all over me.

 

But, when I push back & refuse to take any crap from them it really really really pisses them off.

 

I'm not an ass about it, I just don't take it from them.

 

their like a wounded animal. It blindly lashes back with all its ferosity when you barely touch it.

 

I have to say, It feels really good calling women out on their crap & showing them I can care less if I ever talk to them again & that I can fall off the face of the earth if I want to.

 

It started with my cheating wife when she moved out. The only time I saw her is when we exchanged the kids. Otherwise I might as well of been dead for all she knew.

[cooldudeinberlin]

indeed, that too....women are running the show

 

 

That is in large because we let them though.

 

 

Very interesting point... and this stems from the sexual revolution... a lot guys just dont know how to act anymore... James Bond circa 1964 or circa 2009?

 

Im going to go out on a limb here and say NO ONE IS EVER in control over you if you arent a part of that game... without saying it to cause an uproar... I have delt with a lot of strong, charismatic, independent, confident "alpha women" who are used to having their choice easily relinquish whatever perception of control when they are dealing with someone whom they perceive of equal or higher value.

 

If you really want to boil down what's trouble men (really most people regardless of gender) is their self value... how they perceive themself...

 

learning to like yourself regardless of any external validation or acceptance... with your flaws, with your quirks, etc.

 

This will give you confidence, the feeling of comfort in your own skin and this ultimate power of knowing YOU control your life, destiny and outcome... nothing can come close to this power and nothing will ever make you more attractive than this power.

 

sounds so simple, doesnt it? But it does come from experience, wisdom, growth (meaning both the positive and negative experiences)

 

This is the key ingredient and common behavior pattern that "the jerks" have that makes them attractive... its not their callous or brash behavior... but the mentality behind it... they simply dont care what others think, arent afraid of being who they are and make no apology for it... this is perceived as strong character... however, a genuine, intelligient, nice guy, even geek, can easily (well maybe not easily) possess this same behavior and have the same effects... a wake of very interested, attracted women.

[A O]

And when you see consistantly how men value women based on their bodies, we see what is important to men and it affects women whether men want it to or not or think it should or shouldn't.

Self esteem usually develops from a young age, at a time when boys and girls are largely irrelevant to each other. Self esteem, IMO, is basically confidence borne from achievement (intermixed at a young age with love, encouragement and reassurance) so the more we do/achieve the greater our 'inner belief' grows which in turn allows us to become less reliant on, and more fortified against - external factors. So, my point is, if we can get them feeling good about themselves as early as possible, then the likelihood that they'll base their self-worth on one facet alone (the body) or be influenced by negative external factors (men, media) will decrease markedly.

 

 

.

[espec10001]

Wussy men base their self worth on how the opposite sex sees them. Who gives a f*** how a woman views you. Women are wishy washy and don't know what they want. Men are not nice creatures. If you base your self worth upon how successful you are with women, it's no wonder women don't like "nice" guys.

 

Men are not nice. Never have been, never will be. Man's nature is more closely to a beast.

[lino]

Being the one expected to do all the legwork. Times have changed women, why don't you pursue us? Why don't you call us first? Why don't you pay for the date once in a while?

 

 

Good questions... I suspect the answers will come long after you and I are dead

[Jersey Shortie]

Self esteem usually develops from a young age, at a time when boys and girls are largely irrelevant to each other. Self esteem, IMO, is basically confidence borne from achievement (intermixed at a young age with love, encouragement and reassurance) so the more we do/achieve the greater our 'inner belief' grows which in turn allows us to become less reliant on, and more fortified against - external factors. So, my point is, if we can get them feeling good about themselves as early as possible, then the likelihood that they'll base their self-worth on one facet alone (the body) or be influenced by negative external factors (men, media) will decrease markedly

Not totally true AO. While I agree the development of self-esteem development starts young, and parents and mentors play a strong role in that, you can't completely negate the external factors that children will absorb. Even 5 year old girls will complain that they are fat and worry about their bodies. That's not a message their parents sent them. It's a message they got from the media.

 

Now of course, a parent should do their best to counter that. But Miley Ray Cyrus and company are still going to be a strong influence. Also, I think the issue steams from teaching boys one thing and girls another. We teach boys that it's okay to judge girls by their looks, that it's natural. Which it is. But then we tell girls that they shouldn't judge themselves on their looks while they see their father or brothers or other boys do just that.

 

You can't teach one gender that they shouldn't worry about their looks while you teach the other that it's natural that they judge the other on their looks. Do men pat each other on the back for getting a sweet girl with the heart of gold? Or do they pat each other on the back for getting the hot girl with the nice boobs? I think the issue we run into is we tell men it's okay to judge women by their looks but we expect women not to do the same about their own looks. We tell men it's okay to undulge in media that puts a standard and stress on women's looks but we tell women they need to be the ones that over look it, while the men can be the ones to indugle it. That's unrealistic and hypocritical.

 

So yes, I strongly stress all parents to build their child's confidences. But also teach your son's what to truly value in women. And vice versa.

 

When those kids hit their teenagers years, research shows that their opinion of them takes a remarkable drop. So you could spend all your time building up their confidence when they are young but you aren't completely going to bypass what society tells them. Especially at that age when you want to fit in and be accepted and you want boys to like you.

[Woggle]

If it were only so black & white.

I am the "nice guy" the kind of women attracted to jerks zero in on me &

assume because I'm not a jerk I have no self respect & will let them walk all over me.

 

But, when I push back & refuse to take any crap from them it really really really pisses them off.

 

I'm not an ass about it, I just don't take it from them.

 

their like a wounded animal. It blindly lashes back with all its ferosity when you barely touch it.

 

I have to say, It feels really good calling women out on their crap & showing them I can care less if I ever talk to them again & that I can fall off the face of the earth if I want to.

 

It started with my cheating wife when she moved out. The only time I saw her is when we exchanged the kids. Otherwise I might as well of been dead for all she knew.

 

It might piss them off but in most cases they will respect you. I am not saying that a man should abuse a woman or cheat on her or mistreat her. If a woman treats you like a king then by all means treat her like a queen but only then. A man should reward a woman that treats him well. If she treats like a piece of garbage then she should not get one ounce of gentlemenly behavior from you.

 

If she thinks you are scum then you should earn that title. The problem is that when a woman starts her crap too many men go out of thier way to please her or win her love back which always backfires. I believe that in order to have a successful marriage or relationship a man has to be emotionally and mentally prepared to toss a woman out and pack all her stuff in boxes if she cheats or does something as bad. Too many men are not willing to do that these days.

[Woggle]

I don't doubt that women get messages about looks but men get messages that damage our self esteem just as much. The reason so many men are intimadted and tend to avoid independent and successful women even if they will make perfectly fine partners is that us men are constantly how not needed and useless we are in women's lives.

 

We are told that a father's only purpose is as a sperm donor and a paycheck and told how miserable it makes women to be involved with us. According to popular culture we are pretty much useless since women make their own money so who can blame men who go for financially dependent women that need them? We don't like to feel useless so we avoid women who we are told have no use for us.

[eraser]

I would say one of the biggest issues we have is the whole 'nice guy'/ jerk syndrome. Personally, it bothers me how the nice guy automatically gets labeled with all the wussy characteristics, and the jerk is automatically awesome. It's so pointless. Why can't a nice guy be awesome?

 

I think nice guys are beyond awesome. I'm not going to lie...I had my jerk phase. I consider that phase to be what was necessary to truly appreciate a nice, great guy. I think you're more likely to find women who appreciate nice guys if you look for women in their late 20s and beyond. Younger women are more likely to fall for jerks because 1) they don't know any better and 2) there might be a little mystique around the jerk at first.

 

However, I do agree with some other posters here when they say that being "nice" is not enough to attract a woman. People are multi-faceted and we can be attracted to many different things. Saying that no one wants you because you're "too nice" is a little too simplistic.

[Woggle]

I think nice guys are beyond awesome. I'm not going to lie...I had my jerk phase. I consider that phase to be what was necessary to truly appreciate a nice, great guy. I think you're more likely to find women who appreciate nice guys if you look for women in their late 20s and beyond. Younger women are more likely to fall for jerks because 1) they don't know any better and 2) there might be a little mystique around the jerk at first.

 

However, I do agree with some other posters here when they say that being "nice" is not enough to attract a woman. People are multi-faceted and we can be attracted to many different things. Saying that no one wants you because you're "too nice" is a little too simplistic.

 

The problem is is that the jerk phase women go through leaves many men embittered and misogynist which is why some women in their early to mid 30s wonder why they can't find a good man.

[eraser]

I believe that in order to have a successful marriage or relationship a man has to be emotionally and mentally prepared to toss a woman out and pack all her stuff in boxes if she cheats or does something as bad. Too many men are not willing to do that these days.

 

As a woman, I agree. I fully expect a man to throw my ass out on the curb if I cheat or do "something as bad." And I think a man should expect me to have the same reaction should he get out of line. But that's just me. I try to be very fair in my relationships.

 

I have a male friend who is incredibly handsome, sweet, funny, intelligent, etc. But he has a problem with women who walk all over him. He readily admits to having been a "door mat" in the past. I am trying to teach him how to not take "ish". I sincerely hope he learns something.

[eraser]

The problem is is that the jerk phase women go through leaves many men embittered and misogynist which is why some women in their early to mid 30s wonder why they can't find a good man.

 

While on one hand, I can understand some resulting bitterness and misogynism, at the same, I can't. The 20s are a dating battleground. No one knows what they're doing. Everybody makes mistakes. Those are growing pains. Both sexes are more prepared for real relationships by the time they hit their late 20s or early 30s, so to give up on the opposite sex before then seems a little defeatist.

[phineas]

It might piss them off but in most cases they will respect you. I am not saying that a man should abuse a woman or cheat on her or mistreat her. If a woman treats you like a king then by all means treat her like a queen but only then. A man should reward a woman that treats him well. If she treats like a piece of garbage then she should not get one ounce of gentlemenly behavior from you.

 

If she thinks you are scum then you should earn that title. The problem is that when a woman starts her crap too many men go out of thier way to please her or win her love back which always backfires. I believe that in order to have a successful marriage or relationship a man has to be emotionally and mentally prepared to toss a woman out and pack all her stuff in boxes if she cheats or does something as bad. Too many men are not willing to do that these days.

 

For some reason I get a lot of flakes calling me up asking me to go out.

Then last minute. Poof.

I then hear from them shortly after & they act like it never happened.

That's when I just start ignoreing them.

 

1 started flirting hard with me 6 months later & got pissed because I ignored her. She eventually called me. didn't leave a message.

 

I still see her but I show zero interest.

 

Another doesn't seem to even notice i'm ignoring her because she just keeps texting me even though I never respond.

 

The last one actually made a serious effort to apologize & make it up to me when she realized I wasn't going to tolerate that kind of crap & had no problem cutting people like her from my life.

 

We still talk. But i'm "busy" most of this month landscaping with the break in the weather.

[AD1980]

Sage, I am truly impressed by your comments here and agree with them. While I understand men face struggles, so do women. We don't have it so easy. And there is an epidemic of low self-esteem among women. For the reason you stated, on-top of the way women are protrayed in the media, and what women observe men take interest in, in women, on the surface.

 

I will add that women don't want "nice guys". That's right guys, we don't and we shouldn't have to apologize for it. Just like many of you don't only want "nice girls". If you can admit to yourself that you need more then just "nice", then at least be hoenst and allow women to ahve the same without telling us we only want jerks.

 

Women don't want jerks. We want "good men". There is a huge significense between NICE GUY and GOOD MAN. I have said this before and I think some of you choose to ingore this message. The truth is that not alot of men know how to balance and be good men. Or have the scruples and self control to be one. So I think too many men tell themselves that women only want jerks because it takes any preasure off of men to look at themselves and reflect on what they could be doing that is turning off the opposite sex.

 

 

 

 

I got to say that it's truly nice to see a guy thought about this. Thank you Sage. I don't know the complete answer but I do know that it not only would take changing the perceptions of women and how they view themselves, how they value themselves, but also how men value women as well. And when you see consistantly how men value women based on their bodies, we see what is important to men and it affects women whether men want it to or not or think it should or shouldn't.

 

We live in a hyper-media culture and every where you turn there is another image of an impossibly goregous woman that your man is most likely going to fawn over for a few minutes at least. Women worry about the quality of their bodies all the time. Most don't fit in the ideals that men seem to fantasize over. And women know it. That's part of the problem. You have 40-50 year old men looking at porn of 18-25 year old girls. That sends a big message to any woman from 18-100 what men value first. And it's not the soul or heart of a woman. Men want women to look past shallow qualties, even in themselves and in men, and be confident. But if a man buys into the shallow qualities being sold to him mass-market, no man should be surprised that women buy into it too. Our response is different because we are left to wonder if we measure up. And in most cases, we don't. that's why men look at all these fantasy images. And with all the images around us daily, that you can google on your computer, and that many men even in relationship do, no one woman can measure up to the billion of images a man will seek out to get visual pleasure from every day. And many men do just that. Even when yuo go home at night, after being in a world filled with more options, you can't get away from it because it's in your home with the comupter.

 

I once heard the biggest question men ask themselves is "am I good enough. Can I meet the challenge". The biggest question women ask themselves is: "am I special enough, pretty enough. " Because to be pretty is to be feminine. We all know it. And often the answer women get, from their husbands, bfs, fathers, and other important men in their life is that they aren't because there is always another girl around the corner that will tickle a fickle man's fancy. Men are quite fickle here.

Woggle

 

 

 

If men have no self respect, even if they let women walk all over them or not, they also can't possibly have respect for women either. That's also another big issue.

 

Theyres always gonna be somebody better looking then us if a Women or Man cant deal with that its their fault..

 

An image of whats supposed to be a beautiful women in the media should not make a girl derpessed if shes cofnident in herself and relationship..

 

Thats like saying if a Man's wife fawns over some hot movie star that you know you're not nearly as good looking as or as in good a shape you should feel its unfair or that you have to look like that guy or your wife will leave you..

[Rearden Metal]

Sage, I am truly impressed by your comments here and agree with them. While I understand men face struggles, so do women. We don't have it so easy. And there is an epidemic of low self-esteem among women. For the reason you stated, on-top of the way women are protrayed in the media, and what women observe men take interest in, in women, on the surface.

 

I will add that women don't want "nice guys". That's right guys, we don't and we shouldn't have to apologize for it. Just like many of you don't only want "nice girls". If you can admit to yourself that you need more then just "nice", then at least be hoenst and allow women to ahve the same without telling us we only want jerks.

 

Women don't want jerks. We want "good men". There is a huge significense between NICE GUY and GOOD MAN. I have said this before and I think some of you choose to ingore this message. The truth is that not alot of men know how to balance and be good men. Or have the scruples and self control to be one. So I think too many men tell themselves that women only want jerks because it takes any preasure off of men to look at themselves and reflect on what they could be doing that is turning off the opposite sex.

 

 

 

 

I got to say that it's truly nice to see a guy thought about this. Thank you Sage. I don't know the complete answer but I do know that it not only would take changing the perceptions of women and how they view themselves, how they value themselves, but also how men value women as well. And when you see consistantly how men value women based on their bodies, we see what is important to men and it affects women whether men want it to or not or think it should or shouldn't.

 

We live in a hyper-media culture and every where you turn there is another image of an impossibly goregous woman that your man is most likely going to fawn over for a few minutes at least. Women worry about the quality of their bodies all the time. Most don't fit in the ideals that men seem to fantasize over. And women know it. That's part of the problem. You have 40-50 year old men looking at porn of 18-25 year old girls. That sends a big message to any woman from 18-100 what men value first. And it's not the soul or heart of a woman. Men want women to look past shallow qualties, even in themselves and in men, and be confident. But if a man buys into the shallow qualities being sold to him mass-market, no man should be surprised that women buy into it too. Our response is different because we are left to wonder if we measure up. And in most cases, we don't. that's why men look at all these fantasy images. And with all the images around us daily, that you can google on your computer, and that many men even in relationship do, no one woman can measure up to the billion of images a man will seek out to get visual pleasure from every day. And many men do just that. Even when yuo go home at night, after being in a world filled with more options, you can't get away from it because it's in your home with the comupter.

 

I once heard the biggest question men ask themselves is "am I good enough. Can I meet the challenge". The biggest question women ask themselves is: "am I special enough, pretty enough. " Because to be pretty is to be feminine. We all know it. And often the answer women get, from their husbands, bfs, fathers, and other important men in their life is that they aren't because there is always another girl around the corner that will tickle a fickle man's fancy. Men are quite fickle here.

Woggle

 

 

 

If men have no self respect, even if they let women walk all over them or not, they also can't possibly have respect for women either. That's also another big issue.

 

This is a fantastic post JS.... often I find your viewpoints aggravate me, but I have to say you crushed a home run with this analysis.

 

I definitely don't want a "nice" girl. I dated one a bit these last few weeks and I found it incredibly uninspiring, overall.

 

And, point taken on the difference between Nice Guys and Good Men. This is an important distinction, and one that is not made nearly enough.

[Jersey Shortie]

Theyres always gonna be somebody better looking then us if a Women or Man cant deal with that its their fault..

 

LOL, what does this have to do with anything I said?

 

An image of whats supposed to be a beautiful women in the media should not make a girl derpessed if shes cofnident in herself and relationship..

 

Keep telling yourself that. If we go by your thinking lets also say that the image of what's suppose to be a beautiful women in the media shouldn't turn men on and he shouldn't masturbate to her, he should be confident in himself and his relationship and the sexual needs he gets met there...

 

This is the problem you are showcasing perfectly for me. It's okay for men to buy into the imagery of the beautiful women in the media nad respond to it in varying degrees. However, we somehow expect women not to respond as well and get negative feed back from it. Hypocritical.

 

Thats like saying if a Man's wife fawns over some hot movie star that you know you're not nearly as good looking as or as in good a shape you should feel its unfair or that you have to look like that guy or your wife will leave you..

 

Truth is, it's going to happen sometimes. Someone else will strike your fancy. But in the digital age, we've gone way over "sometimes". Also, while men might worry more about their looks today then before, men still don't have the preasures that women do when it comes to looks. That's fact. You will see an ugly man with a pretty woman before you will see an ugly woman with a handsome man. The things that strike at men's heart aren't the same as the things that stroke at a woman's. There are things that make men feel demasculated that wouldn't bother a woman and vice versa. Is it right for women to tell men it shouldn't bother them because they don't care themselves? No.

 

This is a fantastic post JS.... often I find your viewpoints aggravate me, but I have to say you crushed a home run with this analysis.

 

I definitely don't want a "nice" girl. I dated one a bit these last few weeks and I found it incredibly uninspiring, overall.

 

And, point taken on the difference between Nice Guys and Good Men. This is an important distinction, and one that is not made nearly enough.

 

Thanks? I think..... lol.

[123BeachFan]

Being the one expected to do all the legwork. Times have changed women, why don't you pursue us? Why don't you call us first? Why don't you pay for the date once in a while?

 

Well, it sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work. A woman who pursues a man comes off as being needy and desperate and will surely chase the man away.

[AD1980]

LOL, what does this have to do with anything I said?

 

 

 

Keep telling yourself that. If we go by your thinking lets also say that the image of what's suppose to be a beautiful women in the media shouldn't turn men on and he shouldn't masturbate to her, he should be confident in himself and his relationship and the sexual needs he gets met there...

 

This is the problem you are showcasing perfectly for me. It's okay for men to buy into the imagery of the beautiful women in the media nad respond to it in varying degrees. However, we somehow expect women not to respond as well and get negative feed back from it. Hypocritical.

 

 

 

Truth is, it's going to happen sometimes. Someone else will strike your fancy. But in the digital age, we've gone way over "sometimes". Also, while men might worry more about their looks today then before, men still don't have the preasures that women do when it comes to looks. That's fact. You will see an ugly man with a pretty woman before you will see an ugly woman with a handsome man. The things that strike at men's heart aren't the same as the things that stroke at a woman's. There are things that make men feel demasculated that wouldn't bother a woman and vice versa. Is it right for women to tell men it shouldn't bother them because they don't care themselves? No.

 

 

 

Thanks? I think..... lol.

 

Women are much more superficial and visual then you claim..Maybe you arent but plenty are..Lets not act like its only Men its society..

 

Bottom line is never look to the media or tv for your self worth you have to look inside yourself..Nobody should tell you how to feel about yourself..

 

I know plenty of women who are comfortable in their own skin and dont need validation from the Media other men or whoever and thats really a sexy trait..

[Woggle]

Women are much more superficial and visual then you claim.

 

Very true and it applies to other areas of life. When have you ever seen a man spending nearly a grand on a bag? I am not talking about a piece of jewelry or a dress but a handbag.

[AD1980]

Very true and it applies to other areas of life. When have you ever seen a man spending nearly a grand on a bag? I am not talking about a piece of jewelry or a dress but a handbag.

 

Well im sure JS will tell you thats because of Men and the media or porn or something

[MrNate]

I think nice guys are beyond awesome. I'm not going to lie...I had my jerk phase. I consider that phase to be what was necessary to truly appreciate a nice, great guy. I think you're more likely to find women who appreciate nice guys if you look for women in their late 20s and beyond. Younger women are more likely to fall for jerks because 1) they don't know any better and 2) there might be a little mystique around the jerk at first.

 

However, I do agree with some other posters here when they say that being "nice" is not enough to attract a woman. People are multi-faceted and we can be attracted to many different things. Saying that no one wants you because you're "too nice" is a little too simplistic.

 

I don't think a woman has to wait to their late twenties to appreciate the advantages of a nice guy, but I see where you're coming from.

 

And, yes, I agree, 'being nice' alone, is not enough to spark attraction. Another common misperception. It's more of a basic requirement, in my opinion

[MrNate]

Well, it sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work. A woman who pursues a man comes off as being needy and desperate and will surely chase the man away.

 

I disagree. Another perception that needs to be changed. If I could add one word to your statement, it would be:

 

Well, it sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work. A woman who pursues a man who comes off as being needy and desperate will surely chase the man away.

 

Women shouldn't always be afraid to pursue someone if they think something is there.

[Woggle]

When women hit 30 and start wanting nice guys many men feel like they are being settled for because the women couldn't tame the player.

[AD1980]

When women hit 30 and start wanting nice guys many men feel like they are being settled for because the women couldn't tame the player.

 

Thats how id feel..Ive never had sucess with women if all of a sudden some women does show interest im gonna think shes just looking for that nice guy after every jerk used her as a cum dispenser through the years and im just there for emotional support as she has begruding sex with me once in awhile..

[Woggle]

Thats how id feel..Ive never had sucess with women if all of a sudden some women does show interest im gonna think shes just looking for that nice guy after every jerk used her as a cum dispenser through the years and im just there for emotional support as she has begruding sex with me once in awhile..

 

And as soon she gets the urge to tame another player she will cheat and give me the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. Thanks but no thanks.