Owl Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 (edited) Mating is natural. Marriage is a social construction that was introduced with an overt aim of maintaining social order, but a hidden aim of subjugating and controlling women. Now that worked for a while, until women started to refuse to play ball. One could argue that women's emancipation has contributed to their unhappiness. One could be right. Ironically, men are benefiting from women's liberation, particularly those who are commitment phobe. Many single women are into no strings attached non-committal partnerships with several men. Many guys are loving it. Why hark back to traditional norms when men and women can share happiness with many like minded people. Interesting viewpoint. I completely disagree, however. Your attempt at trying to make this sound like an archaic thing meant solely to "keep women in their place" doesn't really hold water, given that marriage has been historically prevelant even in matriarchal societies. I don't have an issue with people choosing not to marry, don't get me wrong. I'm fine with people choosing to live lives that don't include the institution of marriage...it's a personal choice that men and women are both free to make. That doesn't make the concept of marriage "unnatural". If you want to get picky, there is NOTHING in your current life that is really in any way "natural". If you want to recommend that people choose not to marry, that's wonderful. Just don't try to justify your viewpoint using twisted "facts" and expect everyone to buy into it. And to the OP...I still feel that Nomad's advice on choosing to divorce now rather than wait his it's own merits...its up to how you feel about your marriage and the odds of positive change actually happening within it. You can try to make a change like I suggested, or you can go ahead and end it now...either way has its own merits. I just wanted to add...I certainly didn't marry my wife to subjugate her...and if she thought I had, she'd have kicked my butt! Edited April 7, 2010 by Owl
Author Lindsey Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Gosh Lindsey at 28, you have six more lives! You wrote with such maturity I thought you were in your 40s! You have so much more mileage in the clock, so to speak! I ran the London Marathon, back in 2000, alongside a 97 year old man, who finished in good time. I know a woman who received her PhD from Oxford aged 93! Your journey is just beginning and each time you achieve anything, good or bad, it will be: One less thing to do in life :-)! I was forced to grow up quickly when I was younger. I have always been mature for my age.
Author Lindsey Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Interesting viewpoint. I completely disagree, however. Your attempt at trying to make this sound like an archaic thing meant solely to "keep women in their place" doesn't really hold water, given that marriage has been historically prevelant even in matriarchal societies. I don't have an issue with people choosing not to marry, don't get me wrong. I'm fine with people choosing to live lives that don't include the institution of marriage...it's a personal choice that men and women are both free to make. That doesn't make the concept of marriage "unnatural". If you want to get picky, there is NOTHING in your current life that is really in any way "natural". If you want to recommend that people choose not to marry, that's wonderful. Just don't try to justify your viewpoint using twisted "facts" and expect everyone to buy into it. And to the OP...I still feel that Nomad's advice on choosing to divorce now rather than wait his it's own merits...its up to how you feel about your marriage and the odds of positive change actually happening within it. You can try to make a change like I suggested, or you can go ahead and end it now...either way has its own merits. I just wanted to add...I certainly didn't marry my wife to subjugate her...and if she thought I had, she'd have kicked my butt! I think I am at least going to give MC a try. This way maybe if things come down to divorce, at least we tried.
Author Lindsey Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 try one of these http://www.meebo.com/ or enable proxy or download Meebo repeater which will act as proxy.... coming to your problem.....when there is already some one waiting for you why even bother to pretend like you care about your H or M...just get the D done ASAP...then show your frustration on new found love There isn't anyone else.
onedayatatyme Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I think I am at least going to give MC a try. This way maybe if things come down to divorce, at least we tried. I think IC would be best for both of you as well. He certainly has issues he needs to work on for himself. You do too whether you think so or not. Everybody has issues they can work on. It's not fair to expect him to do all the changing. I'm sure he'd say you're not perfect in this marriage. You should meet him halfway.
Author Lindsey Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 I think IC would be best for both of you as well. He certainly has issues he needs to work on for himself. You do too whether you think so or not. Everybody has issues they can work on. It's not fair to expect him to do all the changing. I'm sure he'd say you're not perfect in this marriage. You should meet him halfway. Yes I do agree. I have never said I don't have any faults.
Owl Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Lindsey, I do wish you well. I hope MC works for you as well as it did for my wife and I. Don't be afraid to INSIST on MC, and on trying several if the first one or two don't work out well...not all use the same methods, and some are better at helping with certain problems or issues than others. Good luck to you!
Author Lindsey Posted April 8, 2010 Author Posted April 8, 2010 Lindsey, I do wish you well. I hope MC works for you as well as it did for my wife and I. Don't be afraid to INSIST on MC, and on trying several if the first one or two don't work out well...not all use the same methods, and some are better at helping with certain problems or issues than others. Good luck to you! Thank you! We made our first MC appointment last night. I made him call and set it up. I had to go work out and had an appointment for my business afterwards. I found out that I won a 10 week challenge we were doing at my fitness area - which include a prize of $400. He was the first person I called. When I finally got home, he surprised me with roses (he hardly ever buys flowers, let alone roses). He had a card that said congrats and that he loved me. He even said that he was really wanting to try to work on all of this because he did love me. That silly boy knows how to grab my heart every time!
Gunny376 Posted April 8, 2010 Posted April 8, 2010 I would recommend both of you read "Light His Fire", and "Light Her Fire" along with "How Can We Light A Fire When The Children Are Driving Us Crazy" Word of caution? You don't read his and he doesn't read yours!
Owl Posted April 8, 2010 Posted April 8, 2010 Thank you! We made our first MC appointment last night. I made him call and set it up. I had to go work out and had an appointment for my business afterwards. I found out that I won a 10 week challenge we were doing at my fitness area - which include a prize of $400. He was the first person I called. When I finally got home, he surprised me with roses (he hardly ever buys flowers, let alone roses). He had a card that said congrats and that he loved me. He even said that he was really wanting to try to work on all of this because he did love me. That silly boy knows how to grab my heart every time! This is awesome. Let him know how much you appreciate the flowers...but also make it clear that you need CHANGES, not gifts. I'll add to Gunny's list of recommended reading. "The Five Love Languages" by Dr Chapman "20 (Suprisingly Simple!) Rules and Tools For a Great Marriage" by Dr Steve Stephens. You might also check out marriagebuilders.com...check out the free information about "the love bank" concept, "love busters", "emotional needs", etc... That site is predominately built around recovering marriages from infidelity, but the basic concepts of the love bank and lovebusting make a lot of sense even when you're not dealing with an affair situation.
Author Lindsey Posted April 8, 2010 Author Posted April 8, 2010 This is awesome. Let him know how much you appreciate the flowers...but also make it clear that you need CHANGES, not gifts. I'll add to Gunny's list of recommended reading. "The Five Love Languages" by Dr Chapman "20 (Suprisingly Simple!) Rules and Tools For a Great Marriage" by Dr Steve Stephens. You might also check out marriagebuilders.com...check out the free information about "the love bank" concept, "love busters", "emotional needs", etc... That site is predominately built around recovering marriages from infidelity, but the basic concepts of the love bank and lovebusting make a lot of sense even when you're not dealing with an affair situation. Thank you, actually him buying me flowers was a big change. That meant that he actually got out of the house to do something nice for me. Normally he wouldn't even leave his chair!
Gunny376 Posted April 8, 2010 Posted April 8, 2010 This is awesome. Let him know how much you appreciate the flowers...but also make it clear that you need CHANGES, not gifts. I'll add to Gunny's list of recommended reading. "The Five Love Languages" by Dr Chapman "20 (Surprisingly Simple!) Rules and Tools For a Great Marriage" by Dr Steve Stephens. You might also check out marriagebuilders.com...check out the free information about "the love bank" concept, "love busters", "emotional needs", etc... That site is predominately built around recovering marriages from infidelity, but the basic concepts of the love bank and lovebusting make a lot of sense even when you're not dealing with an affair situation. Agreeded Owl, what is needed is to feed off positive energy from one another, to build a dialog, ~ a positive one. Tit-for-tat. Get to making each other not just laugh, but giggle and smile.
Gunny376 Posted April 8, 2010 Posted April 8, 2010 Thank you, actually him buying me flowers was a big change. That meant that he actually got out of the house to do something nice for me. Normally he wouldn't even leave his chair! You've got to teach him how to be the right "him" for you. We teach people how to treat us.
Author Lindsey Posted April 8, 2010 Author Posted April 8, 2010 I ordered all four books that you guys recommended. Hopefully I can actually get him to read Light Her Fire. I think if he realizes it's important to me, he just might read it. I have a new feeling in my heart today. I feel like I can reach out to him again with all my heart! I just pray that he doesn't hurt it again. Hopefully our first session next week will go well.
Author Lindsey Posted April 8, 2010 Author Posted April 8, 2010 Here's another big change I see in him: He's not a very touchy feely person. Most of the time when I would reach my hand to hold his, he would just give me 5! Last night on the way home from work it sort of shocked me that he grabbed my hand back instead of just giving me 5. I told him that I appreciated it!
Owl Posted April 8, 2010 Posted April 8, 2010 It sounds to me like these things are your "love languages". The thing is, he may not share them. It's critically important that both spouses learn what makes the other person feel loved, and express their love to that other person in ways that are meaningful to that other person. That's the ghist of the "Love Languages" book, as well as the "emotional needs" info on marriagebuilders. Reinforce his positive changes by showing him love in ways that make him feel it the most...make sure you're not doing it in 'languages' that are yours, not his. And remember, it takes time to build these changes into habits...so keep it up on both sides. My wife and I often make a game of it...so we get lots of smiles and giggles when we both try to 'outdo' the other.
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