Woggle Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Most men would love a nice and sweet woman that treats them well but we can't find it.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 I was kind of hoping that sex with a girlfriend or wife would be at least as good as in a no-strings-attached situation (although I've never had a ONS, so I have to guess on that part). Is that an unreasonable expectation? If not, and if women are expecting better sex in a relationship, then why go for the "relationship guys" at all? I don't understand how on earth you reached this conclusion. All I said was that I'm talking about relationships and not purely NSA sex, because I agree that any woman can get NSA sex whereas that's harder for guys. Nowhere did I say anything about the relationship NOT having sex, or not having good sex, or the girl in a relationship putting the bf on a backburner!
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 You really,really,really shouldn't use the guys who post here as your benchmark. Really. LOL! i'm willing to bet a lot of these guys who post here give off a bad,creepy,pathetic vibe. Also, no offence but it sounds like you are re-hashing plots from an 80's high-school movie. Better off dead is a good example. Okay, so maybe the glasses and pigtails example was extreme. But it is true, and it happens in everyday life. I'm not just using this board as a yardstick. Haven't you EVER had ANY girl interested in you, phineas?
TouchedByViolet Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 And yet, Elswyth did point out that the two types of girl she describes are equally hot but some posters automatically assume low-maintenance = boring. The women in these categories are NOT equally hot. A women who spends a little bit of time and thought into dressing attractively is going to look more hot. A girl with an up to date sense of fashion and sophisticated look is MORE HOT than one who just puts on what normally works. Just because a girl likes to spend time dressing up, go shopping or spend money doesn't mean she isn't a "nice girl". I get the feeling that Elswyth thinks that "nice girls" don't enjoy making themselves look sexy and are push overs. Ex .homely girl "doesn't throw a huge fuss when you forget her birthday". If I was in a relationship with someone and they forgot my b-day I would be hurt and wouldn't be like "it's okay"
Kamille Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I was kind of hoping that sex with a girlfriend or wife would be at least as good as in a no-strings-attached situation (although I've never had a ONS, so I have to guess on that part). Is that an unreasonable expectation? If not, and if women are expecting better sex in a relationship, then why go for the "relationship guys" at all? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Clearly, not all women are the same and not all women have the same expactations. Same goes for guys. In my experience, sex is better in a relationship. Simple reasons: Bf and I are building intimacy and are also getting to know each other's bodies better and better. But are you saying you base your level of attractions to women on how sexually "exciting" you perceive them to be? I remember once at a party, there was this "I know I'm hot girl" who was saying: "I used to worry about pleasing the guys who pick me up in bed, but now I just lay there and let them do all the work". In other words: "hot" does not equal exciting bed partner. Most men would love a nice and sweet woman that treats them well but we can't find it. I agree and have never struggled to find partners who appreciate kindness and consideration. Yet, on this very thread some male posters have equated nice and sweet with not being very interesting or not being very attractive.
Anela Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I brought up the same topic with someone I know, and pointed this out to him: They should, yes! Just as the 'nice guys' who 'can't get a girl' should start considering them instead of drooling over the prom queen. and he completely ignored me. I'm tired of hearing about how awful women are, for not dropping their underwear for them - or even giving them the time of day - only to have them ignore certain women around them, because they aren't hot enough: "Even I have my standards! :rolleyes:" Mmm...
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 The women in these categories are NOT equally hot. A women who spends a little bit of time and thought into dressing attractively is going to look more hot. A girl with an up to date sense of fashion and sophisticated look is MORE HOT than one who just puts on what normally works. Just because a girl likes to spend time dressing up, go shopping or spend money doesn't mean she isn't a "nice girl". Yes, she is 'hotter' simply because she spends that much time and money to be 'hotter', although both might be equally pretty when they wake up beside you in bed. And of course it doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't a 'nice girl' - plenty of suave, charming guys who know exactly the right thing to say, drive a Ferrari and give off a 'bad-boyish' vibe can also be great bfs. I mentioned that already, if you read my OP. If you like the 'hot' girls, more power to you. My post was directed at the 'nice guys' who are wondering why 'no girls want them' and that 'girls don't like nice guys', whereas they don't stop to think about the sort of girls that they're actually talking about. I get the feeling that Elswyth thinks that "nice girls" don't enjoy making themselves look sexy and are push overs. Ex .homely girl "doesn't throw a huge fuss when you forget her birthday". If I was in a relationship with someone and they forgot my b-day I would be hurt and wouldn't be like "it's okay" I said 'nice girl' as in the 'girl-next-door' stereotype, which is comparable to the 'nice guy' stereotype (which is really the average-looking, average-earning guy who's a little shy but a great person to be with). And I didn't say they wouldn't be hurt, GOD. Did you even read the part about 'TRY to smile'? How does that mean that someone isn't hurt? It just means they try to forgive and not throw a huge fuss. I think you missed out quite a lot of my post. I've had to point out three very obvious things already. May I suggest a re-read?
Anela Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Are you sure? I've seen the opposite, based on my experience here and from what I see. And trust me, I've seen a LOT of guys complaining they can't get a girl - and they completely neglect to ask out the girl with glasses and a pigtail sitting in front of them from class and helping them out with their homework, or the girl who sits with them for hours helping them with the rejection they faced from hotter girls. I've been that girl in the past, and it taught me a lot about how a large part of the male population is like. I've also witnessed it, and I've been that girl.
yaleorbt Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 GoodOnPaper: OK, so we nerdy, average-looking, average-income nice guys are put in the "relationship box". Where's the attraction in that? If we're secondary sex options, why bother? Elswyth: Oh, so when you're complaining about 'not getting a girl', you actually mean 'not getting no-strings-attached sex', and not 'not getting a girlfriend'. I'll keep that in mind for any of your future posts, thanks for clarifying. I think what is going on here is that the nerdy, average-looking, average-income guys resent being just considered relationship material and not as sexual beings. It doesn't have anything to do with wanting to get NSA sex, but a guy will feel that the woman is just isn't as attracted to them physically if they were so willing to hop into bed with the sexy guy, yet is wants to take it slow with the average guy because he just isn't some hottie that makes her melt. Any guy is going to want to believe that his woman finds him so irresistible that she can't keep her hands off.
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Okay, so maybe the glasses and pigtails example was extreme. But it is true, and it happens in everyday life. I'm not just using this board as a yardstick. Haven't you EVER had ANY girl interested in you, phineas? yep. My STBXW was a skinny A-cup that dressed frumpy & kind-of cute. But she had a great personality so I went out with her when she asked me out.
GoodOnPaper Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I don't understand how on earth you reached this conclusion. All I said was that I'm talking about relationships and not purely NSA sex, because I agree that any woman can get NSA sex whereas that's harder for guys. Nowhere did I say anything about the relationship NOT having sex, or not having good sex, or the girl in a relationship putting the bf on a backburner! I don't understand how you can separate sex and relationships in this discussion. For me at least -- but I have always figured that it is a guy thing -- physical connection and intimacy are STRONGLY interrelated and this interrelationship affects my view of my relationship on a daily basis. When it comes to women, most of the adverse consequences of "nice guy" tendencies manifest themselves in attraction, sex, and intimacy issues. You only need to spend 30 seconds reading posts on the No More Mr. Nice Guy discussion board to see that.
Kamille Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 The women in these categories are NOT equally hot. A women who spends a little bit of time and thought into dressing attractively is going to look more hot. A girl with an up to date sense of fashion and sophisticated look is MORE HOT than one who just puts on what normally works. According to you. My ex used to complain that I dressed up too much. He was attracted to "au naturel" women with little make up, a T-shirt and a pair of Jeans. Just because a girl likes to spend time dressing up, go shopping or spend money doesn't mean she isn't a "nice girl". I agree. But looks aren't the only criteria Elswyth outlined: she included, in her definition of high-maintenance, women who have a "princess" complex. Her definitions were steretypical, but imagine two girls with the same sense of fashion. Let's call them Betty and Veronica. Betty is sweet, chipper, is there for you when you need help, brings you cookies just because she thought of you. Veronica pouts at the drop of a hat, expect you to treat her like a princess and makes you work for her attention. What I understand Elswyth to be saying is that in her group of friends, the Veronicas attract more men than the Bettys. I get the feeling that Elswyth thinks that "nice girls" don't enjoy making themselves look sexy and are push overs. Ex .homely girl "doesn't throw a huge fuss when you forget her birthday". If I was in a relationship with someone and they forgot my b-day I would be hurt and wouldn't be like "it's okay" I think the scare quotes index a lot: "nice girls" are just like "nice guys". I think most women, just like most men, are actually nice, no scare quotes. We're out there looking for fulfilling relationships and know our boundaries and limits. Then you have people who fall into the category of being "nice" with scare quote. These people struggle to assert their boundaries because of their own insecurities. Then you have jerks and high maintenance chicks. I think the questions are: do "nice guys" tend to be attracted to "high maintenance" chicks? Do "high maintenance" chicks tend to fall for "jerks"? Why do "nice girls" and "nice guys" keep getting friendzoned?
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 yep. My STBXW was a skinny A-cup that dressed frumpy & kind-of cute. But she had a great personality so I went out with her when she asked me out. That's great.
zebracolors Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Most men would love a nice and sweet woman that treats them well but we can't find it. In some cases that could be right under a guy's proverbial nose but he sometimes is not even aware of it.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 I brought up the same topic with someone I know, and pointed this out to him: and he completely ignored me. I'm tired of hearing about how awful women are, for not dropping their underwear for them - or even giving them the time of day - only to have them ignore certain women around them, because they aren't hot enough: "Even I have my standards! :rolleyes:" Mmm... In some cases that could be right under a guy's proverbial nose but he sometimes is not even aware of it. Exactly! Typical scenario: 'Average' guy: I'm doomed! No girls seem to like 'nice guys' like me. They all just want to be friends. Why's this world so unfair to guys like me!? Friend: So how about that girl you always talk to? (average girl) She seems to like you. 'Average' guy: Oh, A? Naw, she's just a friend.
Lakeside_runner Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 The first is the homely girl. The laid-back type who's very accommodating and understanding (almost to a fault, even), doesn't really party, doesn't have a laundry list of requirements for a man, doesn't throw a huge fuss when you forget her birthday. May be pretty, but generally doesn't spend all that much time and money on their appearance - they can throw on a baby tee, jeans and flats and head out without any makeup. Tends to spend more time at the movies or slumber parties with friends than at bars. Would most likely just try to smile and say 'it's okay' if the bf apologizes for having forgotten her birthday. WHERE ARE THESE GIRLS!!!??? I want one of these!!!
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 WHERE ARE THESE GIRLS!!!??? I want one of these!!! I concure. Every time I THINK I meet one they friend-zone me because i'm not "hot" LOL!
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 WHERE ARE THESE GIRLS!!!??? I want one of these!!! I concure. Every time I THINK I meet one they friend-zone me because i'm not "hot" LOL! Hehe, ironic. I bet they're wondering where the guys like you two are as well.
Lakeside_runner Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Hehe, ironic. I bet they're wondering where the guys like you two are as well. Haha! Posting on a dating forum instead of going out and meeting them
lino Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 (edited) This topic doesn't make much sense to me. There are more than just 2 types of girls. Also, the majority of men who want to get involed with big-time party girls only do so because they want to sleep with them. They aren't interested in ever marrying them! Everyone knows that. Edited April 7, 2010 by lino made it neater
carhill Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Hint: Men, if you are dismayed about the hot girl overlooking you because you're a 'nice guy', maybe you're just overlooking the 'girl-next-doors' who might appreciate you for who you are. Back when I was your age, I wasn't so much dismayed but rather confused that all the women I had contact with, whether 'laid-back' or 'party girl', chased after the same small group of men. Now, 'chase' likely isn't a good word, but let's just say that was the group the women 'made themselves available' to. I think it goes on less a generation later, but I still see signs of it today in my age group. Why? Because, when you're 50 (or whatever older age), inside, you can still think and feel like a 25 year old. The outside package is just older. If one remains that age inside, their behaviors reflect it. I will say it's easier to spot now, and experience has lessened my confusion and replaced it with acceptance. Reverse the genders and the same (inverse) dynamic still applies to men too, and I do see that every day. Want and attraction. Can they match up? Depends on who one is, I guess.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Back when I was your age, I wasn't so much dismayed but rather confused that all the women I had contact with, whether 'laid-back' or 'party girl', chased after the same small group of men. Now, 'chase' likely isn't a good word, but let's just say that was the group the women 'made themselves available' to. I think it goes on less a generation later, but I still see signs of it today in my age group. Why? Because, when you're 50 (or whatever older age), inside, you can still think and feel like a 25 year old. The outside package is just older. If one remains that age inside, their behaviors reflect it. I will say it's easier to spot now, and experience has lessened my confusion and replaced it with acceptance. Reverse the genders and the same (inverse) dynamic still applies to men too, and I do see that every day. Want and attraction. Can they match up? Depends on who one is, I guess. Yeah, I guess we're all just good at screwing ourselves over. In my defense, though, I was never attracted to the stereotypical 'hot men'.
carhill Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I married one of the 'average', 'laid back' types, not hot (by standards this board employs anyway) during a lull in her pursuit of the aforementioned small group of men. Once she got back on track, want and attraction diverged and here we are today. I saw many signs of it during the M but, unhealthily, overlooked them. Based on the pack of emotional vampires I've run into during my period of being separated, I would say divergence is still alive and well amongst my age demographic. They're still banging (or attempting to bang) the hot guys and turn to the 'nice guys' for their emotional validation. I try to post examples as they happen and have recent postings on the subject. Moving forward, I will keep your OP in mind. The challenge is remembering the present does not owe a debt to the past.
blind_otter Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I was kind of hoping that sex with a girlfriend or wife would be at least as good as in a no-strings-attached situation (although I've never had a ONS, so I have to guess on that part). Is that an unreasonable expectation? If not, and if women are expecting better sex in a relationship, then why go for the "relationship guys" at all? um...ONS sex is always bad, compared to relationship sex. OP, whether you are a hot crazy party girl or shy, retiring nerdy girl (I've been both), ultimately the key in attracting the opposite sex (for men or women) is selling yourself as a commodity. Women tend to do this through visual ques and stimulation. Men utilize whatever talents they have - I've seen many a fugly lead guitarist have a super hot girlfriend, or a wealthy businessman, or even a guy in grad school for engineering. You don't see very attractive men dating less attractive women very often, because men are mainly visually stimulated.
AD1980 Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 (edited) Everyone Male or female wants a clasically good looking partner unfortunately theyres only so many to go around and most arent attractive enough to get one.. By a certain age most average or ugly people realize they can get one so they "settle" for somebody on their level who they connect with emotionally and physically arent all that into but "tolerate" becasue its the best they can get Just depends on the person how long theyre willign to hold out for there dream of a good looking person and when they realize its unnatainable.. Edited April 7, 2010 by AD1980
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