Els Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 You know, when you see all these posts about guys claiming that women don't really want good men - that they themselves are caring, loyal, respectful etc etc but the girls only go for the good-looking arrogant bastards with the flashy car who take a different girl home each week? Well, think about it. Isn't it generally the same in reverse? Men always claim they want a woman who understands them, who's caring and kind and loyal, who's actually a buddy instead of demanding and clingy, etc. Well, I know this is a gross generalization, but I can very, very roughly divide the girls I know into two types. The first is the homely girl. The laid-back type who's very accommodating and understanding (almost to a fault, even), doesn't really party, doesn't have a laundry list of requirements for a man, doesn't throw a huge fuss when you forget her birthday. May be pretty, but generally doesn't spend all that much time and money on their appearance - they can throw on a baby tee, jeans and flats and head out without any makeup. Tends to spend more time at the movies or slumber parties with friends than at bars. Would most likely just try to smile and say 'it's okay' if the bf apologizes for having forgotten her birthday. The other type is the 'hot' party girl. Not necessarily prettier than the first type, but certainly spends a LOT of time on appearance. Styled hair, makeup, heels, push-up bras, the latest fashions and all that jazz. Loves parties and bars. Spends at least half an hour primping (not including the shower and cleansing routine!) before going out. Perhaps because of the way society has treated them, or perhaps because their personality type predisposes them to it, they seem to feel entitled to Mr. Perfect, and have a HUGE list of requirements, often superficial, for him. May also be caring and loyal, but usually not understanding and not a buddy, nor do they try to be. Will not try and share a man's hobby, often drags the poor bf on 5-hour shopping sprees when they can't get any of their girlfriends (hey, that latest fashion attire has to come from somewhere!), will likely sulk for 3 days if they don't like the birthday present the bf gave them. Well, guess which type is more likely to have a guy? Almost ALL of my friends who have boyfriends are in the latter group; and there are so many in the former, the nicest and sweetest girls you could ever see, who have never had one in their 24 years. No, they're not unattractive or overweight either, even though they're not beauty queens. And trust me, no girl will EVER be a beauty queen without doing most of the things that the 2nd group of girls does, even though some might make it through without turning into Ms. Bitch. Is it not the same as what men face, then? Why do both genders persist on screwing themselves over? Yes, there WILL be girls who are 'hot' and also don't act all entitled and princessy. And I'm sure there are guys who are suave and 'bad-boyish' and rich who really are decent guys and great bfs underneath it all. But what's the point in looking for that needle in the haystack? What are the odds that you'll find such a person, he/she will want YOU, and you'll be compatible in all important aspects? Hint: Men, if you are dismayed about the hot girl overlooking you because you're a 'nice guy', maybe you're just overlooking the 'girl-next-doors' who might appreciate you for who you are.
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 For every average looking woman there is a jerk who will use them for sex. My "nice guy issue" is I ALWAYS met women that were attracted to jerks. doesn't matter if they were "hot" or "the girl next door" If a woman tells me: "my last relationship was based on sex" "I don't want a relationship based on sex" or "I want to take it slow" it tells me she likes my personality & the way I treat her but she is not sexually attracted to me. She will try to force the attraction or thinks it will come when she gets to know me better because i'm the type of guy she SHOULD be with. But, even with good sex, it never comes. in this situation EVERYTIME it has ended with them jumping into the sack with some jerk they JUST met. They don't even bother breaking up with me. so I just run from these women now when I meet them.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 I'm not talking about using them for sex. I'm talking about having an actual relationship with them. This thread isn't about sex - I agree that it's far easier for women to get free sex than for men to, it isn't rocket science.
Pedigree Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Hey, I'd sign up for the first type of girls any day. I guess there's just the hurdle of not regularly going out to bars and clubs.
A O Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Hint: Men, if you are dismayed about the hot girl overlooking you because you're a 'nice guy', maybe you're just overlooking the 'girl-next-doors' who might appreciate you for who you are. The type of woman a nice guy goes for isn't as big a problem as thinking that being nice is all one needs to bring to the table. It isn't, it's simply one trait of many that folks need. The other problem is being nice to the detriment of themselves, a doormat basically. That's unattractive too. .
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Indeed being 'nice' isn't the be all and end all. But why is it that the 'nice girls' and 'nice guys' always seem to not have people interested in them?
A O Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Well, you could argue that they attempt to date outta their league, but when all is said and done, if they have nothing else to offer other than being nice then they're not going to be attractive to anyone - period. So, name of the game here is to develop a more balanced, complete person, on top of or instead of, just trying to get them to be more wiser with their choices. .
GoodOnPaper Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I'm not talking about using them for sex. I'm talking about having an actual relationship with them. This thread isn't about sex - I agree that it's far easier for women to get free sex than for men to, it isn't rocket science. I don't see how this thread cannot include discussing sex. This is where most of the frustration and bitterness sets in for "nice guys". Women don't seem to want to face this, but "nice guys" want sex as much as players do. Now, wanting sex doesn't necessarily mean wanting to use women for sex. Personally, I would love for things to go the "friends first" route, but if you are bad at the initial attraction phase of relationships, the friendzone is always looming -- the average player can swoop in on someone I'm interested in and generate more attraction in an hour than what would take me days or weeks to cultivate.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 AO: What do you see wrong with the Type 1 'nice girl' that I mentioned? Assuming she's not dumb, deadbeat boring, or anything of the sort, of course. What advantage do you see a Type 2 girl having over her except physical looks? GoodOnPaper: I'm talking about relationships (which can include sex), not ONLY one-night-stand no-strings-attached sex, like I said. I'm also not talking about being 'just friends'. If someone is a nerdy, average-looking and average-income nice guy with no player charm looking for free and easy sex, well, sucks to be him, because the women who will even consider having ONS will probably have no interest in him.
GoodOnPaper Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Indeed being 'nice' isn't the be all and end all. But why is it that the 'nice girls' and 'nice guys' always seem to not have people interested in them? "Nice girls" are bad at sending out signals of interest and "nice guys" are bad at reading such signals -- not a good combination.
TouchedByViolet Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 These "types" you have categorized women into are inaccurate generalizations. You have simply separated women into either being a hot fun crazy bitch or slightly attractive, not very interesting girl. I like nice girls who also have a bad side
GoodOnPaper Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 GoodOnPaper: I'm talking about relationships (which can include sex), not ONLY one-night-stand no-strings-attached sex, like I said. I'm also not talking about being 'just friends'. If someone is a nerdy, average-looking and average-income nice guy with no player charm looking for free and easy sex, well, sucks to be him, because the women who will even consider having ONS will probably have no interest in him. OK, so we nerdy, average-looking, average-income nice guys are put in the "relationship box". Where's the attraction in that? If we're secondary sex options, why bother?
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I'm not talking about using them for sex. I'm talking about having an actual relationship with them. This thread isn't about sex - I agree that it's far easier for women to get free sex than for men to, it isn't rocket science. Exactly. So why don't "the-girl-next-door" types go after nice guys who want sex & have a relationship but instead just go for the jerk that just wants sex?
cooldudeinberlin Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 really should define what a "nice girl/guy" is.... common conception: desperate, eager to please, seeks a lot of external validation (and even more emotionally fragile when involving the opposite sex), insecure, wants to be liked, put their own needs/opinions/likes/dislikes aside and adopts others as a vehicle to being accepted and liked, not very confident or comfortable with themselves which is a true sign of them not liking themselves. Needy, clingy, desperate. (potential stalker material) In other words... with all their insincere compliments, adopting your opinion and likes to gain your approval, buying you gifts or making promises (bribes), etc.... its all manipulative... its all deceptive... it has a hidden agenda. Therefore, in reality... "nice guys/girls" are really the jerks, that cant be trusted, arent they? That is why your intuition backs you off them and their behavior isnt attractive... its too slimey to be true.
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 OK, so we nerdy, average-looking, average-income nice guys are put in the "relationship box". Where's the attraction in that? If we're secondary sex options, why bother? Yep. Average women do this all the time. Nice average guys get back burnered while they try to get the "hot" guy. Most men however will take an average girl showing interest over a hot girl not showing interest. most average guys don't bother with the hot women anyways. bottom line if an average girl is single & claims she can't find a nice guy it's because she doesn't think the guys interested in her are good enough.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Exactly. So why don't "the-girl-next-door" types go after nice guys who want sex & have a relationship but instead just go for the jerk that just wants sex? They should, yes! Just as the 'nice guys' who 'can't get a girl' should start considering them instead of drooling over the prom queen. These "types" you have categorized women into are inaccurate generalizations. You have simply separated women into either being a hot fun crazy bitch or slightly attractive, not very interesting girl. I like nice girls who also have a bad side I did say it was an extremely rough generalization. Nor did I say the hot ones were crazy. OK, so we nerdy, average-looking, average-income nice guys are put in the "relationship box". Where's the attraction in that? If we're secondary sex options, why bother? Oh, so when you're complaining about 'not getting a girl', you actually mean 'not getting no-strings-attached sex', and not 'not getting a girlfriend'. I'll keep that in mind for any of your future posts, thanks for clarifying.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Yep. Average women do this all the time. Nice average guys get back burnered while they try to get the "hot" guy. Most men however will take an average girl showing interest over a hot girl not showing interest. most average guys don't bother with the hot women anyways. bottom line if an average girl is single & claims she can't find a nice guy it's because she doesn't think the guys interested in her are good enough. Oh no, trust me. I have a few close female friends who are a little shy - no guys have ever asked them out. Well, except for the creepy old men standing on sidewalks asking anything with a skirt if they'd 'like to have a little fun'. I admit that some do back-burner 'nice guys' while aiming for the 'hot ones', and what I'm trying to point out is that guys do this as well. So why don't both just cease that destructive circle? "Nice girls" are bad at sending out signals of interest and "nice guys" are bad at reading such signals -- not a good combination. This is a possible reason, yes.
GoodOnPaper Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Exactly. So why don't "the-girl-next-door" types go after nice guys who want sex & have a relationship but instead just go for the jerk that just wants sex? Although I believe there are inner qualities in a person than can generate sexual attraction, I think we all have a tendency -- especially when we are younger -- to evaluate based on what we see at the surface. I remember being drawn to the same bubbly, outgoing, universally attractive women that the players were going after. I would have LOVED to have felt the same kind of attraction toward the women with the nerdy, intellectual interests I had -- but these women didn't seem to want to be approached. (Again, "nice girls" are bad at sending out signals of interest.) I suspect that a similar thing is going on in regards to "girls-next-door" staying away from "nice guys".
Kamille Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 This thread is unintentionally hilarious! But to say: I have to agree with Elswyth. I've long thought that some of the men who complain that women don't like nice guys actually mean: "Hot women" don't like "nice guys" and these guys' version of hot is actually "high maintenance". I think a few comments on this thread clearly indicate Elswyth has a point, namely: OK, so we nerdy, average-looking, average-income nice guys are put in the "relationship box". Where's the attraction in that? If we're secondary sex options, why bother? These "types" you have categorized women into are inaccurate generalizations. You have simply separated women into either being a hot fun crazy bitch or slightly attractive, not very interesting girl. I like nice girls who also have a bad side And yet, Elswyth did point out that the two types of girl she describes are equally hot but some posters automatically assume low-maintenance = boring. So basically, self-proclaimed nice guys have an identity issue. They're looking for a girl who will make them feel exciting. I think the issue is that, in the process, they start trying to hang on to her at all cost, instead of staying rational and valuing her for who she actually is. Instead, they value her as a reflection of who they are. In other words, they come off as being insecure and needy. And no one, of any gender, finds that attractive.
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 They should, yes! Just as the 'nice guys' who 'can't get a girl' should start considering them instead of drooling over the prom queen. . Trust me on this. Guys who claim they CAN'T get a girl will take whatever comes their way. If a Guy is back burnering a woman it's because he has other real options. That really doesn't make him a "nice guy" now does it?
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Trust me on this. Guys who claim they CAN'T get a girl will take whatever comes their way. Are you sure? I've seen the opposite, based on my experience here and from what I see. And trust me, I've seen a LOT of guys complaining they can't get a girl - and they completely neglect to ask out the girl with glasses and a pigtail sitting in front of them from class and helping them out with their homework, or the girl who sits with them for hours helping them with the rejection they faced from hotter girls. I've been that girl in the past, and it taught me a lot about how a large part of the male population is like.
Author Els Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 And yet, Elswyth did point out that the two types of girl she describes are equally hot but some posters automatically assume low-maintenance = boring. Precisely.
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Oh no, trust me. I have a few close female friends who are a little shy - no guys have ever asked them out. Well, except for the creepy old men standing on sidewalks asking anything with a skirt if they'd 'like to have a little fun'. I admit that some do back-burner 'nice guys' while aiming for the 'hot ones', and what I'm trying to point out is that guys do this as well. So why don't both just cease that destructive circle? This is a possible reason, yes. So your wondering why shy guys & girls arn't more outgoing?
GoodOnPaper Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Oh, so when you're complaining about 'not getting a girl', you actually mean 'not getting no-strings-attached sex', and not 'not getting a girlfriend'. I'll keep that in mind for any of your future posts, thanks for clarifying. I was kind of hoping that sex with a girlfriend or wife would be at least as good as in a no-strings-attached situation (although I've never had a ONS, so I have to guess on that part). Is that an unreasonable expectation? If not, and if women are expecting better sex in a relationship, then why go for the "relationship guys" at all?
phineas Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Are you sure? I've seen the opposite, based on my experience here and from what I see. And trust me, I've seen a LOT of guys complaining they can't get a girl - and they completely neglect to ask out the girl with glasses and a pigtail sitting in front of them from class and helping them out with their homework, or the girl who sits with them for hours helping them with the rejection they faced from hotter girls. I've been that girl in the past, and it taught me a lot about how a large part of the male population is like. You really,really,really shouldn't use the guys who post here as your benchmark. Really. LOL! i'm willing to bet a lot of these guys who post here give off a bad,creepy,pathetic vibe. Also, no offence but it sounds like you are re-hashing plots from an 80's high-school movie. Better off dead is a good example.
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