I Want to Save my Marriage- She Wants Separation

[martyjones47]

A few days ago my wife said she wanted to separate. It was a shock to me because of the timing, but we have been on shaky ground for some time. I was under the impression things were getting better and we felt closer and had been more intimate recently.

 

I have since learned some things that have made me sick, but nothing TOO bad. I will say I don't think there has been any cheating, but some feelers have been put out there.

 

As we stand now, we are living together as usual. I am depressed. She hasn't really withdrawn from me. We still touch in passing, spend time together. She fell asleep on my shoulder last night. We haven't had sex in a couple weeks but it has been more frequent the past few months than it was in the previous couple years.

 

I have done some things to make her unhappy, and I understand why she might look elsewhere and have some other feelings. I am trying not to get angry over that stuff. I feel like I can just do the best I can do with what I can control, but I can't control all that other stuff.

 

I let her know that I wanted to stay together and I promised to work on some things. I asked her if she could do a couple things for me, for the sake of our family. I asked for her to put off a decision for awhile, go to counseling with me,etc. Her response was that she couldn't promise anything. I guess the good news is she didnt say it was 100% that it was over. She talked about multiple factors pro and con but said she just can't get into it now.

 

We have been married 5 years. We have 2 kids, but the 7 year old daughter is not biologically/legally "mine." Regardless, I am her Dad. Our 3 year old son is both of ours, and they are both very attached to me. I am so worried about losing my children. Right now my ego is bruised but I am willing to move on with things and do what I need to do.

 

I love my wife very much, but I have done things to make her doubt it, I guess. We have had rocky times, but this is the first time it really felt to me that the breakup talk was REAL.

 

I'm probably just ranting here, now. I read this place a few times in the past and just thought it would be a good place to talk. There's not really anyone I can talk to in real life. Either people just cant handle this stuff, arent neutral, or I don't want to poison views of my wife,etc.

[spriggig]

I'm so sorry this has happened. I was standing in your shoes on January 9th--really you're describing my situation very closely.

 

You've been vague: "I've done some things to make her unhappy...", "I've learned some things that have made me sick..." I think I know what both of these mean because they are exactly what I would have been saying then, but I'd like to hear more from you.

[martyjones47]

I'm so sorry this has happened. I was standing in your shoes on January 9th--really you're describing my situation very closely.

 

You've been vague: "I've done some things to make her unhappy...", "I've learned some things that have made me sick..." I think I know what both of these mean because they are exactly what I would have been saying then, but I'd like to hear more from you.

 

Well, when I say I've done "bad" things- I have never done anything like cheat or harm her or anything like that. I have probably been guilty of "neglect" to an extent and I guess not showing her whatever she needed to feel loved. She felt like I didn't really care.

 

She has flirted with cheating but not gone there, as far as I know. It really hurts my feelings, but at the same time I feel like I can put my ego aside and get past it. I also know that I have been "curious" about exes and old crushes myself. I have looked some up on facebook,etc. But for me that's where it stops. For her there seems to be more "reaching out" and apparently there are few men ( am I the only one?) who don't jump at the opportunity to flirt with and proposition married women.

[dreamingoftigers]

spriggig is totally your go to guy, he could probably run off a library of things to help you with.

 

you are 10 steps ahead if she is willing to go to counseling with you even just for the sake of the family.

 

I am also a neglected wife. We hold out for a long while hoping things will change. If you show her genuine change than you will be rewarded, of this I am certain.

[Gunny376]

Your still being very vague as to what the wife's problem with you and the marriage is? If you want us to help you, you have to give us more specifics as to what the martial problems between you and the DW are?

 

I can tell you this much for sure and certain? Never ever discuss X's with an SO. Especially if your a man ~ it can and will be used against you at a later date.

 

And if your a man? Never ~ ever ask about a SO's others. You just so don't want to go there. If they want to discuss it, let them ~ but keep your responses to "Yes, I agree, I understand!"

 

It sounds as though you and she may have a serious communication problem, and that your not meeting her emotional needs. And that's probally because you didn't until recently realize that you had emotional needs let alone anyone else?

[dreamingoftigers]

Gunny! awesome1

 

Lucky guy, all the fountains of wisdom on your thread!!

[carhill]

A few days ago my wife said she wanted to separate.

 

Great. House rental prices are in the toilet. I should know, as a landlord. Get her on Craigslist and get some apps in. She can be out by May 1.

 

Feelers? Fugetabout it. If you suspect and she wants to separate, there's someone else. Don't be the backup plan.

 

My biggest mistake was being too 'nice'. I gave up a lot of dignity to save some lawyer's fees. Time will tell if that was a good strategy or not.

 

If your suggestion to move out is met with resistance, tell her you're making an appointment for MC this week. Either MC or Craigslist. Choose

[Gunny376]

The fact that the two of you are still having intimate relations, still touching as you pass each other, her falling asleep on your shoulder?

 

Those are all really good strong signs that you've still got a chance?

 

What all that means is that she's ready to "walk" unless you can and will permanently change to become the person that she needs you to be ~ in order to be with you?

 

Sounds confusing? I know!

 

IOW's what she's "telegraphing" to you very strongly in "in-direct woman-speak" is that you've got change, pay more attention to me and my needs as an individual, as a woman or I'm out-of-here!

 

In fact as a woman she's practically screaming at you, begging you, pleading with you to make the changes that you need to make to become the person that she fell in love with. That she can love and be in love with you.

 

There's something that your doing? Or not doing that's making her feel the way she is.

 

Gaming? (Becoming obsessive about playing video games?)

 

Work?

 

Hanging out with your friends?

 

Devoting too much time to a hobby?

 

Being too obsessive about a given particular subject?

 

The point is that anytime you make someone or something more important than your wife or SO? She's going to go and find her someone that's going to make her thier No. # 1 priority in life.

[Gunny376]

I've got to qualify my previous post with?

 

Don't become obessive with it!

 

She's got a real pretty picture in her mind what it means to be a man?

 

And being obessive-compulsive isn't one of them. The harder you chase?

 

The further you push and chase them away!

[martyjones47]

Your still being very vague as to what the wife's problem with you and the marriage is? If you want us to help you, you have to give us more specifics as to what the martial problems between you and the DW are?

 

I can tell you this much for sure and certain? Never ever discuss X's with an SO. Especially if your a man ~ it can and will be used against you at a later date.

 

And if your a man? Never ~ ever ask about a SO's others. You just so don't want to go there. If they want to discuss it, let them ~ but keep your responses to "Yes, I agree, I understand!"

 

It sounds as though you and she may have a serious communication problem, and that your not meeting her emotional needs. And that's probally because you didn't until recently realize that you had emotional needs let alone anyone else?

 

I read some of Spriggig's posts. There are many similarities. I rejected her sexual advances, for one thing. Yeah, I know. At the time I didn't. It's not easy to explain. This happened a few years ago and the problems started around then. We've had good periods since then but it seems to always come back to her feeling I rejected her or I don't want her, but I feel it's the other way around.

 

When I got jealous at one point, she said it was a positive because she "didn't know that I cared." She didn't think she could make me jealous. IIRC, the jealousy was over her adding an Ex on facebook.

 

I was way off. I didn't realize what I was doing until I started seeing things and getting jealous. To me I am thinking " ug, she wants to sleep with these other guys. Maybe her ex was better. Maybe I'm not good at it" or whatever. But I think the real thing is she felt rejected by me. For whatever reason I don't/didn't see this. I have felt rejected but I was the one doing the rejecting.

[martyjones47]

spriggig is totally your go to guy, he could probably run off a library of things to help you with.

 

you are 10 steps ahead if she is willing to go to counseling with you even just for the sake of the family.

 

I am also a neglected wife. We hold out for a long while hoping things will change. If you show her genuine change than you will be rewarded, of this I am certain.

 

I get what you are saying. It seems like she feels she has held out long enough and it's too late.

[carhill]

There's not really anyone I can talk to in real life. Either people just cant handle this stuff, arent neutral, or I don't want to poison views of my wife,etc.

 

See this is where your wife has no such inhibitions. You'll find that out, eventually. Women are unafraid to 'share' and garner support and sympathy. They're quite expert at it. They get it from men too, whether because men are generally sympathetic to women or because they might want to bone her. If you haven't done it already, reconnect with/contact close friends and build those relationships and be open and honest, not about details, but about how you *feel*. Gather support. I've found support in some of the unlikeliest places and from people I'd never had guess would rally to my side. All by being open about how I *feel*.

 

To my cynical (and still divorcing, as a disclaimer) mind, she used the increased sex recently to cover up something else. Classic military diversion maneuver. Why else would she be all intimate, touchy and sexed and then do the 'I want to separate' bomb with no visible signs of clear and present discord? Yep, clever bunch they are.

 

Absolutely do work on yourself for you. MC can help with that. Accept that you have no control over her, rather only what you choose as a healthy path for yourself. When someone says "I want to leave", accept it. Open the door and say 'I understand. We'll work out a custody arrangement that is healthy for the kids. We can do this'

 

BTW, you'll choose another method. They always do

[Gunny376]

See this is where your wife has no such inhibitions. You'll find that out, eventually. Women are unafraid to 'share' and garner support and sympathy. They're quite expert at it. They get it from men too, whether because men are generally sympathetic to women or because they might want to bone her. If you haven't done it already, reconnect with/contact close friends and build those relationships and be open and honest, not about details, but about how you *feel*. Gather support. I've found support in some of the unlikeliest places and from people I'd never had guess would rally to my side. All by being open about how I *feel*.

 

To my cynical (and still divorcing, as a disclaimer) mind, she used the increased sex recently to cover up something else. Classic military diversion maneuver. Why else would she be all intimate, touchy and sexed and then do the 'I want to separate' bomb with no visible signs of clear and present discord? Yep, clever bunch they are.

 

Absolutely do work on yourself for you. MC can help with that. Accept that you have no control over her, rather only what you choose as a healthy path for yourself. When someone says "I want to leave", accept it. Open the door and say 'I understand. We'll work out a custody arrangement that is healthy for the kids. We can do this'

 

BTW, you'll choose another method. They always do

 

Outstanding post carhill

[dreamingoftigers]

Seriously though, if she is giving you half-measures then you have hope.

 

I told my husband that I didn't want "us" anymore last night, but really I am at the end of my rope, if he really did ever (!) just follow-through on anything he said, my heart would melt all over him. And I have been seriously (!) neglected for over three years.

 

My gosh, the neglect actually started on my honeymoon and I still love him and have this small inkling of hope for him even though he can be very nasty at times.

 

I think some women are incredibly cold and fickle and the other half of us take forever to give up.

[Gunny376]

I get what you are saying. It seems like she feels she has held out long enough and it's too late.

 

Yea that's what she's thinking and saying?

 

But in your case? Its not!

 

She's telegraphing you, wiring you, begging you in a language you can't and don't understand that she really wants to save this marriage and be with you.

 

Your not at the "Divorce Point" yet in which she passes you and you pass her and in passiing you both say "F**k you!"

[Gunny376]

Seriously though, if she is giving you half-measures then you have hope.

 

I told my husband that I didn't want "us" anymore last night, but really I am at the end of my rope, if he really did ever (!) just follow-through on anything he said, my heart would melt all over him. And I have been seriously (!) neglected for over three years.

 

My gosh, the neglect actually started on my honeymoon and I still love him and have this small inkling of hope for him even though he can be very nasty at times.

 

I think some women are incredibly cold and fickle and the other half of us take forever to give up.

 

We're of liked minds!

[spriggig]

I read some of Spriggig's posts. There are many similarities. I rejected her sexual advances, for one thing. Yeah, I know. At the time I didn't. It's not easy to explain. This happened a few years ago and the problems started around then. We've had good periods since then but it seems to always come back to her feeling I rejected her or I don't want her, but I feel it's the other way around.

 

Here is my take on the rejection thing.

 

When I got jealous at one point, she said it was a positive because she "didn't know that I cared." She didn't think she could make me jealous. IIRC, the jealousy was over her adding an Ex on facebook.

 

When did the jealousy event happen, how long ago?

 

I was way off. I didn't realize what I was doing until I started seeing things and getting jealous. To me I am thinking " ug, she wants to sleep with these other guys. Maybe her ex was better. Maybe I'm not good at it" or whatever. But I think the real thing is she felt rejected by me. For whatever reason I don't/didn't see this. I have felt rejected but I was the one doing the rejecting.

 

You could be writing my marriage here.

[spriggig]

OK, Carhill touched on it, so I'm just going to say it.

 

You need to find out if she is cheating and you need to find out now.

 

IF she is and you confront her, she'll lie to your face. Sorry.

 

I strongly suggest you do some snooping. I found the OM's (Other Man) address in her purse along with a deposit slip for money I knew she didn't have. I walked straight over and checked her browser history log and found she had been searching for airline tickets to OM's home state.

 

I confronted her on this and what did she say? "We're just friends."

 

Because I believed her (stupid), I ended up going through the whole snooping thing again two weeks later and finding more evidence. Rinse and repeat.

 

IF you find some evidence that she is cheating, dig, dig, dig and find all you can at once. Doing so will save you a lot of heartache and time.

Edited April 4, 2010 by spriggig

[hopesndreams]

As long as she keeps feeding you that bit of hope she has got you where she wants you. A shoulder to sleep on, you pining for her and wanting to make everything right (a huge ego boost) and all the while, she is setting herself up with another fella to leave you. Yes, leave you. Plans aren't in place yet for her and OM, maybe he is M, but they soon will be. You will be left devastated and crushed beyond belief and she won't bat an eyelash. Why? Because she stuck it out with you, chance you loads of chances, (in her mind) but when it comes right down to it, her own happiness overrides everything else, even that of her own children.

 

She is being a selfish coward. The only chance you have is doing the 180. If you follow it exactly she could snap out of it and realize what she will be missing. The best thing about 180 though is that you begin to give yourself chance to think with your brain, not your heart and it will clear your head and give you a clearer picture of what she is now, which is someone you no longer know.

 

The other alternative, which will save you much pain down the road, is to start packing her bags. She wants out? Show her the door. Then you will know exactly where you stand. It will give you the power and your self-esteem will not be destroyed.

 

Here's the 180.

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

[spriggig]

BTW, women can fall completely in love, head over heels, entirely through chat, photos and phone calls. Mine did. So even if you know where she's been all the time...

[carhill]

Yeah, I think Owl's wife had a completely online EA. The crisis came when she was going to meet the OM IRL. They recovered their M.

 

I've seen a bit of that here on LS. Seemingly unreal 'connections'. In another life, I would've bought stock in them. Marriage taught me a lot.

 

Keep us posted, OP. The 180 is tough, but it can help, if nothing else to save one's dignity and bridge to a healthier personal life.

[martyjones47]

Here is my take on the rejection thing.

 

 

 

When did the jealousy event happen, how long ago?

 

 

 

You could be writing my marriage here.

 

This was some time within the last year or so, at least when I made her aware that I was jealous and "cared." I actually confronted her about something else from a few years ago at the same time. The extent of the rejection/jealousy period is around 3 years.

[martyjones47]

OK, Carhill touched on it, so I'm just going to say it.

 

You need to find out if she is cheating and you need to find out now.

 

IF she is and you confront her, she'll lie to your face. Sorry.

 

I strongly suggest you do some snooping. I found the OM's (Other Man) address in her purse along with a deposit slip for money I knew she didn't have. I walked straight over and checked her browser history log and found she had been searching for airline tickets to OM's home state.

 

I confronted her on this and what did she say? "We're just friends."

 

Because I believed her (stupid), I ended up going through the whole snooping thing again two weeks later and finding more evidence. Rinse and repeat.

 

IF you find some evidence that she is cheating, dig, dig, dig and find all you can at once. Doing so will save you a lot of heartache and time.

 

I snooped the day I posted here. I have access to phone records, browser history,etc. I did have some passwords, but I think she changed them. I think she knows I saw something that upset me.

 

There is no way she has physically/sexually cheated, yet. I KNOW this. She has probably thought about it. Perhaps fortunately(?) for me, there are some obstacles to her consummating an extra marital relationship in this way, for now.

 

Is she "emotionally" cheating? Maybe. I can't rule that out. If she is, it's at least not to the point where she is in constant contact with anyone else. I know that she hasn't used any of her preferred communication methods since I posted here. She's been focused on the kids and the holiday, for now.

[martyjones47]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

 

Just some updates and thoughts on some issues:

 

Since I posted here I have felt a lot better about the situation. I don't really feel more optimistic about the outcome, but that day I didn't feel like I could live on. My goal is to save the marriage, but I feel I have a better handle on my own well-being regardless of what my wife chooses.

 

The last couple days have been Good- of course someone will tell me that what is see as good may actually be "bad." That's OK- I get the different viewpoints.

 

Since I confronted her and she refused to give any answers "at this time," things have been happier. I have not pressed the issue. She has continued to show "normal" affection. I have not been overly affectionate but have not been cold either. I understand not chasing after her, but because of the circumstances I know that I can't save my marriage by showing indifference.

 

For anyone telling me to move her out, I can't really do that. If anyone has to move out, it will be me. I will have a bump in income soon and will probably start an emergency "move out" fund for myself. But it's not something I can do without some planning. Otherwise I would probably be forced to abandon my children, which is something I refuse to do. I am still hoping it doesn't get to that stage, anyway.

 

I understand the idea of "no contact" and how that can be effective in certain cases. I used those tactics in a previous relationship that was broken, and it worked. In this situation, we are still together. I'm not going to smother her or let her walk over me, but I can't show her what she sees as neglect.

 

There is another factor I should have shared sooner. I guess I didn't want to get too specific to give myself some false sense of anonymity. She recently lost a parent, and they were really close. I felt like our relationship was a little shaky but on the way up at the time. When her parent died, one of the first thoughts that popped in my head was that my wife was going to completely change as a person and might leave me. my parents and others advised me that it would be a very difficult time and that I should be understanding of any way that my wife handled it. basically that I should be prepared for her to behave in ways that didn't seem to make sense, place blame,etc.

 

I know that my wife has been looking to fill some void that left and has been seeking out memories or connections to a certain time in her life. In some ways it has brought us closer at times, while also turning her thoughts to others.

 

It's difficult all around. I only feel like I can be the best person I can be, take things day by day, and control what is within my control. Everything else seems like some other world.

[Gunny376]

It's difficult all around. I only feel like I can be the best person I can be, take things day by day, and control what is within my control. Everything else seems like some other world.

 

BINGO!

 

All you can do is be the best "you" that you can be! Improvise, adapt and overcome!

 

Identify your weaknesses and seek self improvement!

 

Make the best of your situation!

 

Learn damnit learn!

 

Grow as an individual, a person as a man!