Author EricaH329 Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 I agree with you, but if you are seeing a partner where showing them appreciation for a single day means you are showing them more care than they are you, then then I am sorry for you. (You being a generalization, not anyone specific) Very well put!
eric82 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 That being said, I (personally) enjoy being shown appreciation. I don't ask for it, but when I recieve it it's something that I find extremely intriguing. Has your co-worker told you what kind of things she does to show her appreciation for her boyfriend?
carhill Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 I agree with you, but if you are seeing a partner where showing them appreciation for a single day means you are showing them more care than they are you, then then I am sorry for you. (You being a generalization, not anyone specific) In my case, it was over a ten year marriage. I don't do forensic accounting unless my spidey sense of 'carhill, you're a dolt and being taken advantage of' goes off. One day is insignificant. If, in the OP, the co-worker is showing her love, care and appreciation to her fiance in ways where are meaningful to him, then healthy balance is achieved. Often times, if one is a 'giver' (not saying the fiance is, but could be) one forgets about one's own healthy needs and desires. It catches up later, and IME painfully. The wildflower field is now covered with weeds. Gotta go disc. Symbols of life.
troggleputty Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Wow, this thread took a completely different turn than I had expected. How so? Your question in your original post was, to paraphrase, is this guy a perfect guy because he gave me flowers for training his gf/my co-worker/trainee? I do NOT think he is a "perfect guy." (Not based on this limited info anyway.) I think a heterosexual man randomly giving out flowers to a woman who is not his gf, supposedly as a form of "professional thank you," is not the gesture of a 'perfect man,' and is not even a "neutral" gesture. I think it is actually rather clueless, at best, and assuming he had zero ulterior motives. There are just so many ways this kind of gesture could be misinterpreted. Come to think of it, as a purely professional issue, it was also very condescending of this fellow to presume to give his gf's co-worker/trainer flowers to "thank her" for training his gf. It's not his place to either 1) monitor his gf's work performance or 2) implicitly monitor your workplace performance. Again, what he did was inappropriate on so many levels, IMO. If the gf/your trainee wanted to thank you, she could do that by taking you out to lunch or something. Her bf (I am assuming he is not related to your workplace as a co-worker, client, or vendor) has absolutely no place intervening in her work environment. Esp. if she is a new employee/trainee. Further, if this fellow absolutely insisted on showing his thanks to you (again it seems to me if he has no workplace connection, that would be inappropriate), it should be via something that could not possibly be misinterpreted. A heterosexual man sending flowers to a woman is always subject to misinterpretation. If he had any class, he would have very informally invited his gf out to lunch one day, then invited you along as well, and bought you a Quizno's or something. But that's about it. This is where I stand with this whole thing. By the 'perfect guy' I was referring to, it was purely based on my opinion. Everyone has flaws, but the better aspects of people are what makes them, to me, 'perfect'. I've stated why IMO what this fellow did was inappropriate. You know nothing about this fellow other than that he sent you flowers to give you a "thank you" on behalf of his gf--a "thank you" that was not even his place to give on her behalf, in the first place. IOW, he flattered you. You reacted to receipt of the flowers as if such flattery was appropriate in the first place. IMO it is not, not in a workplace situation. Your obligation to your colleague was to train her, which you did, and which presumably you are paid for as part of your compensation/work responsibilities. You don't seem to realize the various implications of any of this. Suppose your colleague had really not been doing too well in her training, and her bf sends you flowers. You could have interpreted this as being an indirect attempt by her, via her bf, to somehow "curry favor" with you. Also, the bf doesn't know you. Yet out of the blue he sends you flowers. Suppose you happened to be someone who had had a history of being sexually harassed/hit on inappropriately in the workplace? Don't you see that the bf is taking a chance that you might not react to receipt of flowers from a strange man in a favorable way (although in this case, you did?) Again--the bf's actions were IMO totally clueless. At best. That being said, I (personally) enjoy being shown appreciation. Maybe you are a little too in need of this kind of "appreciation." The point is it was not the bf's place to show you "appreciation." Unless somehow he has a work connection, which I don't believe you indicated, although maybe I missed that. If you did your job then it is your superiors at work whose place it is to evaluate your performance. Or the person you have trained. Not some third party who happens to have some kind of a social relationship with your work colleague. Again it is not as if you were friends with this guy out of the workplace or had some kind of preexisting social relationship. Is it. I don't ask for it, but when I recieve it it's something that I find extremely intriguing. Most women who receive unsolicited flowers from strange men who are supposedly involved with other women tend to find it creepy. Unless of course they have an interest in the man sending the flowers. Which you obviously do not. For example: I have posted this in another thread of mine, but I was feeling down for a few weeks a little while back. A friend of mine took notice in this, and decided to go out and get me a card that says that she is always here for me, and that she loves and cares about me. I cried. OK what your friend did is perfectly appropriate--because she is your friend. You have a history with her, a social relationship, a friendship. What "bf" did devalues this kind of gesture, which was an earlier point I made. You need to learn to put things in context and learn to recognize when gestures in certain contexts, which would be inappropriate, are not appropriate in alternative contexts. Sending cards and flowers to my friends to cheer them up and show appreciation is appropriate. Sending flowers etc. to my gf's work colleague when I don't otherwise have any connection to this person at all is IMO inappropriate. The mere fact that someone would take time out of their own lives to take notice of another human being (whether it's because they are feeling down, or because they are helping another person out) and take actions to show they care... means a TON, especially these days where it seems as though most people are so wrapped up in their own lives to take notice of anything outside of their own personal lives. As I said, IMO, you are too easily impressed. Sending flowers requires minimal effort nowadays--a credit card and 1-800-flowers. Again--CONTEXT is everything. For all you really know, this gentleman is a completely abusive individual. You just have no clue what this person is really about. This site, for example. There are a whole bunch of very caring individuals that take time out of their day to give a word of advice, or concern. I try to tell everyone that gives me the time of day that I really appreciate it. Right, and no one at LS had to send you flowers to convey that. Do you dig what I am trying to say yet? What i'm trying to get at, is that not everyone that does nice things out of the goodness of their heart has ulterior motives. Some people are genuinely good people. A man in a supposedly exclusive/committed relationship with a woman does NOT EVER send flowers to another woman, if there is any chance whatsoever that such a gesture could possibly be misinterpreted. Not if he has an ounce of common sense. Certainly it is sheer idiocy for him to send flowers to a woman with a work relationship to his gf. Had you taken offense at the gesture, it could well have gotten his gf fired from her job. Is it really that hard to believe?! And then when they do something good for another, they get bashed because they are automatically doing it for the 'wrong' reasons, or they have a whole crap load of serious mental issues that should deter from the kind gestures they give to others? This doesn't make any sense to me. I suspect that you are relatively inexperienced both in the realms of male/female relations/sexual "politics" as well as relatively inexperienced in the work world/professional world. Any person with significant experience in the professional arena would know how hazardous such gestures can be, professionally speaking. And not just due to potential sexual harassment/lawsuit issues. Just suppose, just suppose, you tell your supervisor--correctly--that the trainee has been fully trained by you, and she is all set for her work functions. Then down the road, it turns out she screws up somehow (but it is not your fault). Then, suppose the employer also finds out that you received a "gift" (i.e. the flowers) from the bf; that you were flattered by the "gift,"; and the employer decides that you let the "gift" and flattery impair your professional judgment as to the trainee's readiness for the job for which you had trained her? Or, suppose this woman breaks up with her bf. And then suppose for some reason you have to later on, participate in a performance evaluation of this trainee, and let's say you have to give her a bad evaluation. And then let's say this woman (incorrectly) asserts that you gave her a bad review/evaluation because she thinks (again incorrectly) that you have formed some sort of personal relationship with her now-ex-bf? Keep your business life business and your social/personal life separate, that's the best way to avoid this kind of thing. And it happens every day. You would already KNOW that if you have significant business/professional experience. Certainly on a mangerial/supervisory level. I understand that it's hard to believe in the goodness of humanity these days. But when the opportunity arises to be grateful for something another has done, it should not be down-played. All of this is, of course, my opinion and everyone has a right to their own. I'm just trying to shed some light on where i'm coming from. Suppose you have a bf/were in a committed relationship (I don't know if you are or not. But neither did the trainee's bf.) Suppose your SO finds out about the flowers and takes it the wrong way? What is it exactly about receiving some flowers that has you immediately making the assumption that the sender, a stranger to you, may be the "perfect guy"? I do not believe this is the case. I am very aware of the things that others do not need to do, but do out of the kindness of their heart. Some people, obviously, take that sort of thing for granted. I am not one of those people. What if this guy has eight different women on a string and sends flowers to all of them? Would that make a difference as to how you perceived the gesture? Also, if he were to bring me red roses I might have thought something was a little off. But they were carnations. He didn't go out and spend a whole butt load of money on them, they were a simple gesture to say thanks. He brought them to you personally? Look--if he had come in and said, "These are for the office," that would be different, maybe. A nice bouquet can freshen up the entire office. I have nothing against that. But he brought them to you personally. Apparently? EDIT: I am not her boss. I am her co-worker. Not sure if that makes much of a difference, just thought i'd clear that up. OK. Point taken. You trained her though, you have some degree of seniority. But I still don't see how this stranger/unknown guy bringing you some carnations that he probably picked up at the corner grocery store makes him a candidate for "perfect guy." I would have told him: "Gee that's nice but I'm not allowed to accept personal gifts like this. Why don't you give them to your gf?"
melodymatters Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Right on ! And if he had bought her candy, it might have had roofies in it, and he could have waited in the bathroom and then taken advantage of her. Or maybe it would have been to make Erica fat, and therefore less able to do her job, leading to the promotion of the girlfriend ! Regardeless this is a clear case of innapropriate workplace lust leading to the downfall of civilization and ultimatley, the subjucation of all men. This man must be hunted down and killed before he spreads anymore evil !!!!
harmfulsweetz Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 This guy sounds like a 'nice guy' people pleaser to me. I agree she will eventually get bored with him. I also wouldn't be surprised if he becomes controlling. Agreed. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but people like him who devote so much time pleasing other people, often become resentful and slightly controlling. My ex was like that, he would do the loveliest, most thoughtful thing, but then ruin it by becoming resentful about it, and starting to use it almost as blackmail to get what he wanted in return.
Woggle Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 This kid is still young so he has time to learn. Most guys have to learn the hard way.
Bejita463 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 When two people have a solid relationship and care about each other, the display of affection is a continuous, matter of fact process. You don't need a 'special day' for showing your appreciation. They are not mutually exclusive. In fact, that is a totally ridiculous idea that smells of insecurity and obsession.That is an opinion I can respect, but I do not share it. That does not make either of us right or wrong, nor does it put anyone upon a pedestal. It simply demonstrates that not everyone holds identical views on a given topic. Your disliking an idea like this doesn't make it wrong any more than my liking makes it right, and to contend otherwise is asinine.
harmfulsweetz Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Harmfulsweetz makes a good point. I know people like that too - they seem extraordinarily generous and nice to those who don't know them well, but behind the nice 'nice guy' facade lies a control freak who is actually doing all these things with selfish goals in mind. As the saying goes, beware of Greeks bearing gifts. Exactly. I'm not suggesting the guy in question isn't a nice guy doing things out of the kindness in his heart, but more often than not, people like this, are people-pleasers who harbour resentment towards the things they do, and who expect it returned in other ways. Trust me, when you've been taken out to see that movie you said you would see on your own, or with your girlfriends, then your boyfriend says he's happy to take you, and then all way home, you fight over the fact that yet again, he did something nice, you'll understand that those nice little things, are not so nice. They are aimed at pleasing people, but partly aimed at building/boosting an ego, my ex used to be all like 'I'm such a good boyfriend blah blah blah'. I won't deny everyone loves people doing nice, thoughtful things for them, but only if they are done with a nice, thoughtful intention. And rarely they are. People can only ever be so nice for so long, before eventually they snap and become resentful.
threebyfate Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Right on ! And if he had bought her candy, it might have had roofies in it, and he could have waited in the bathroom and then taken advantage of her. Or maybe it would have been to make Erica fat, and therefore less able to do her job, leading to the promotion of the girlfriend ! Regardeless this is a clear case of innapropriate workplace lust leading to the downfall of civilization and ultimatley, the subjucation of all men. This man must be hunted down and killed before he spreads anymore evil !!!! No kidding! Erica, his gesture was really sweet.
Bejita463 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Exactly. I'm not suggesting the guy in question isn't a nice guy doing things out of the kindness in his heart, but more often than not, people like this, are people-pleasers who harbour resentment towards the things they do, and who expect it returned in other ways. Trust me, when you've been taken out to see that movie you said you would see on your own, or with your girlfriends, then your boyfriend says he's happy to take you, and then all way home, you fight over the fact that yet again, he did something nice, you'll understand that those nice little things, are not so nice. They are aimed at pleasing people, but partly aimed at building/boosting an ego, my ex used to be all like 'I'm such a good boyfriend blah blah blah'. I won't deny everyone loves people doing nice, thoughtful things for them, but only if they are done with a nice, thoughtful intention. And rarely they are. People can only ever be so nice for so long, before eventually they snap and become resentful. Makes sense, and I don't doubt it happens plenty. Assuming that it is going to happen every time would be an unfortunate view to hold. There are loads of people of either gender who have any number of faults, what you just described being among the possibilities. Is not the point of dating to weed out the ones like what you've described and find the ones who are sincere (if that's what you want in a partner anyway)?
anne1707 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Whilst the bf may be very sweet, I think buying flowers for the OP is over the top. Just think of the scenario if this girl is not doing well at her job and the OP has to take disciplinary action against her - would it be acceptable for the bf to express his opinion to the OP? No. It would be consdescending and totally inappropriate. Personally I know that if my H ever interferred in my work (which I know he would never do) then I would be justifiably annoyed/mad at him. It would be undermining my professionalism and standing in the work place.
troggleputty Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Right on ! And if he had bought her candy, it might have had roofies in it, and he could have waited in the bathroom and then taken advantage of her. Or maybe it would have been to make Erica fat, and therefore less able to do her job, leading to the promotion of the girlfriend ! Regardless this is a clear case of inappropriate workplace lust leading to the downfall of civilization and ultimately, the subjugation of all men. This man must be hunted down and killed before he spreads anymore evil !!!! Sarcasm duly noted. However, people who are actually in professional positions of responsibility can't take such a cavalier attitude.
troggleputty Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Agreed. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but people like him who devote so much time pleasing other people, often become resentful and slightly controlling. My ex was like that, he would do the loveliest, most thoughtful thing, but then ruin it by becoming resentful about it, and starting to use it almost as blackmail to get what he wanted in return. Well the potential "quid pro quo aspect" of what this guy did is implicit. People who do things like this invariably attach strings to them, IME. But since we don't really know what's in the bf's mind in sending the flowers--the situation has to be analyzed from the perspective of avoiding a possibly unpleasant situation. Because however much the flowers might be perceived as a nice gesture, it's not worth potentially losing one's job over.
Author EricaH329 Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 Has your co-worker told you what kind of things she does to show her appreciation for her boyfriend? Not that I can remember. But I don't see how that takes away from the kind gesture that he gave me? troggleputty2734996-- I understand your point of view. However, mine is different. I believe mine is different because I work at a bar. It is nothing to make a career out of (for me, anyway). I would agree with you on some level if it were to make my other co-workers uneasy, but it didn't. In fact, they all saw it basically the same way that I did. The females (and sometimes the males) get flowers often while at work. From strangers. Sometimes their intentions are harmless, others they are for the sole purpose of trying to make something romantic come of it. It's nothing new. I recieved flowers from a guy who is already involved with a co-worker, for harmless reasons. I think if anyone were to take it the wrong way, it should be his gf. And she didn't. She actually gave me a huge hug after he gave me the flowers, and said thank you. I appreciate your opinion on this, but I don't agree.
harmfulsweetz Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Makes sense, and I don't doubt it happens plenty. Assuming that it is going to happen every time would be an unfortunate view to hold. There are loads of people of either gender who have any number of faults, what you just described being among the possibilities. Is not the point of dating to weed out the ones like what you've described and find the ones who are sincere (if that's what you want in a partner anyway)? True, I'm sure there are many people who do nice and thoughtful gestures out sincerity, and do not harbor resentment, but of course, it's wise to watch out for the 'people-pleasers'
SOLACEMENT Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 I just started training a new girl at my job. She has been telling me about how great her fiance is. Apparently, he has a specific day every month that is dedicated to her. He makes sure that she is completely appreciated on that day. I was a little skeptical, considering most guys (well any that I know of) don't do that. Today, he brought me flowers to show his appreciation for the fact that I have taken my time to train her. Is he an alien? From another planet? Where do I find these types of guys? I have an ex who was and still is just like this ...we didn't last long(but then again it was a high school relationship-so take that into consideration if you like). I guess you call them girlfriend guys - lol - I couldn't deal with it ,I like my alone time. But we are actually really good friends now.He just left for the forces(sigh) He dated this one girl after me and she has him by the balls and they are now engaged...Ha! what can you say. But that is what he likes and they seem happy ..So guys like this may sound nice to all but only work for some.. :-)
eric82 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Not that I can remember. But I don't see how that takes away from the kind gesture that he gave me? It was a nice thing to do and of course it made you feel good (because it was unexpected), but you didn't start this thread about that act being nice. You started this thread about his gf's boasting and him buying you flowers combining and translating in your mind as characteristic of 'the perfect guy.' The reason I asked if she mentioned anything nice that she enjoys doing for him in return (like "oh when he did that, I was so eager to do this for him") is because it would indicate balance and mutual respect, both which sincere ongoing appreciation depend on. What to you is nicer, a guy surprising you with flowers occasionally, or a guy giving you flowers like clockwork regardless of how you treat him?
Author EricaH329 Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 It was a nice thing to do and of course it made you feel good (because it was unexpected), but you didn't start this thread about that act being nice. You started this thread about his gf's boasting and him buying you flowers combining and translating in your mind as characteristic of 'the perfect guy.' The reason I asked if she mentioned anything nice that she enjoys doing for him in return (like "oh when he did that, I was so eager to do this for him") is because it would indicate balance and mutual respect, both which sincere ongoing appreciation depend on. What to you is nicer, a guy surprising you with flowers occasionally, or a guy giving you flowers like clockwork regardless of how you treat him? I do understand what you're saying. And you are right in saying that the whole point of this thread was about the 'perfect guy', granted... I wasn't being fully serious, considering I do not know him at all and I was just basing this off what I do know and have experienced. I did not mean to imply that there is, or isn't, anything wrong with their relationship. It was more based on his actions, as opposed to their dynamic as a couple. If that makes sense. I've seen guys that have been doormats, and i've seen guys who are nice when they are being shown appreciation. I do believe it is what their intentions are, that make them genuine or not. Again, I don't know this guy enough to say what he is like in a relationship, whether it is genuine or not, but the point I was trying to convey is that the idea of a man being so appreciative of his SO that they would go out of their way to make sure that their partner actually felt it, is amazing to me. And on top of that, he makes sure his partners friends know that it makes him happy and thankful for the things they do for their partner. Sorry if this sounds all over the place and doesn't make much sense.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Where do I find these types of guys? All I can add is that those are the types of guys who do NOT go looking for love within the bounds of somebody else's relationship. (they don't have to) (so those women just festering along while even mildly attached to somebody else need not fill out an application) ... which is one significant inspiration to leave, for those who need to make a break from a situation, but who just remain there because staying requires less effort than leaving. PS - I wonder how many people just stopped to read/respond to this thread just because it was Erica's ???
Bejita463 Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 PS - I wonder how many people just stopped to read/respond to this thread just because it was Erica's ??? I replied because it was a rare thread that wasn't bitter and hateful. At least, not at first.
troggleputty Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Not that I can remember. But I don't see how that takes away from the kind gesture that he gave me? troggleputty2734996-- I understand your point of view. However, mine is different. I believe mine is different because I work at a bar. It is nothing to make a career out of (for me, anyway). I would agree with you on some level if it were to make my other co-workers uneasy, but it didn't. In fact, they all saw it basically the same way that I did. The females (and sometimes the males) get flowers often while at work. From strangers. Sometimes their intentions are harmless, others they are for the sole purpose of trying to make something romantic come of it. It's nothing new. I recieved flowers from a guy who is already involved with a co-worker, for harmless reasons. I think if anyone were to take it the wrong way, it should be his gf. And she didn't. She actually gave me a huge hug after he gave me the flowers, and said thank you. I appreciate your opinion on this, but I don't agree. Erica, your friend's name wouldn't be "Brandy" by any chance? And, if so, is the boyfriend a sailor from the north of Spain?
Author EricaH329 Posted April 7, 2010 Author Posted April 7, 2010 Erica, your friend's name wouldn't be "Brandy" by any chance? And, if so, is the boyfriend a sailor from the north of Spain? I'm not quite sure how to take this? I get the reference, but I don't see how it applies to this?
troggleputty Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I'm not quite sure how to take this? I get the reference, but I don't see how it applies to this? LOL, no one has a sense of humor anymore. For those who didn't "get the reference": "Brandy (You're A Fine Girl)" (As recorded by Looking Glass) ELLIOT LURIE There's a port on a western bay And it serves a hundred ships a day Lonely sailors pass the time away And talk about their homes And there's a girl, in this harbor town And she works, laying whiskey down They say "Brandy, fetch another round" She serves them whiskey and wine The sailors say "Brandy, you're a fine girl What a good wife you would be Yeah your eyes could steal a sailor From the sea." Brandy, wears a braided chain Made of finest silver from the north of Spain A locket, that bears the name Of a man that Brandy loved He came, on a summer's day Bringing gifts, from far away But he made it clear, he couldn't stay No harbor was his home The sailors said "Brandy, you're a fine girl What a good wife you would be But my life, my lover, my lady Is the sea." Yeah Brandy used to watch his eyes when he told his sailor's story She could feel the ocean fall and rise, she saw it's raging glory But he had always told the truth, Lord he was an honest man And Brandy does her best to understand At night, when the bars close down Brandy walks through a silent town And loves a man, who's not around She still can hear him say, she hears him say "Brandy, you're a fine girl What a good wife you would be But my life, my lover, my lady Is the sea" "Brandy, you're a fine girl What a good wife you would be But my life, my lover, my lady Is the sea"
troggleputty Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 Technically, upon rereading the lyric, it was the locket that came from the North of Spain. The lyric doesn't indicate whether the sailor also came from the North of Spain. However Erica if you read the lyric maybe you will get the joke?
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