Jump to content

Unapologetic Married Man

jennie-jennie

By jennie-jennie
in The Other Man / Woman

 Share
While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!

Recommended Posts

moaningmyrtle Established Member

moaningmyrtle

Posted
Posted

I had a conversation about some of this with my own fWH.

 

Firstly, I get a little uncomfortable posting what he says, but Jennie often acts as spokesman for her own MM, and many of us do this too. Probably because there are very few (if any) ongoing MM that post here. The few we get are usually in the throes of deciding whether to confess to or leave their wives, so sadly we have to make do with the women posting the viewpoint of their menfolk.

 

Background: On d-day my H was forced by the circumstances to make some decisions. He didn't voluntarily confess, nor did the OW tell me - I found out myself. I was literally unable to support my own weight as my legs kept giving way - I was also in no positing to "force" him to do anything - he had to work it out all by himself.

 

Essentially (as it appeared to me) he made a snap decision to end it with the OW. He got the chance to send her a brief e-mail in which he told her goodbye and said "I love Myrtle and want to stay with her and I'm sorry for the pain I have cause Myrtle and you". In our world "sorry" generally equates to an apology.

 

He told me today that he still feels enormous guilt for his treatment of the OW and the abrupt way it ended. Even though she always knew he was married and he was never going to easily make a decision to leave his wife, it would still have come as a complete shock to her. Just remember he did love her - and I know that, as did she.

 

I "get" the split-self personality, but if he was completely unapologetic (ie not at all sorry) for what he had done to both women, then I would have to say there would have to be something seriously wrong with his personality.

 

Surely only a complete sociopath has no guilt or level of "sorriness" for betraying his life partner for so long. It is irrelevant that he now loves the OW more and/or that she believes "love cannot be promised" (isn't that what happens when people get married - they make promises and vows?). It is not just people that a person loves that can be betrayed by someone.

 

From the way Jennie describes her MM (which is all we have to go on) he is involved in seriously deceiving and manipulating his wife and family and believes he has nothing to apologise for. I am surprised that a woman so obviously intelligent and introspective as Jennie is, is able to overlook this latter aspect of him.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Jennie

 

The thinking behind this notion of the unapologetic married man just doesn't compute for me.

 

I want to ask you..

 

 

Do you see a difference in Jennie Jennie declaring herself an unapologetic other woman when Jennie ended her relationship with her SO and does not hide her relationship with MM from her family, friends etc.

 

VS

 

MM declaring himself an unapologetic married man when MM is staying married and lying, deceiving and gaslighting another person every day. He does hide the relationship with his OW from his family, friends etc.

 

I am not one who believes that AP's are not responsible for harming the BS, but I do see why some AP's might think that way. The AP didn't make or break any promises to the BS and so might not see a reason to be apologetic about the relationship. But the married person IS breaking promises, IS taking actions that harm the ones who trust them. If you are a decent person, isn't that something to be apologetic about?

 

And, doesn't this declaration of being UMM just further cement the status quo?

 

Guilt is what cements the status quo. Guilt has never helped anyone.

 

For me to do what MM is doing would be wrong and I should be apologetic about it, but we are not the same person. It is not up to me to judge another human being.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
It is a challenge actually to back off from your own point of view and try to understand that of another, especially if you are one of those who suffer from the consequences of the other's decisions.

 

The bolded is where I feel it was implied.

 

And my opinion isn't changing.

 

ROTFL Did you not realize that I was talking primarily about myself and then extending my experience to other OW and BSs?

 

Why don't you try backing off of your point of view and trying to see why the others feel the way they feel?

 

BTDT. That is why I am trying something new.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Jennie just don't lose yourself or your point of view in MM's justifications. You don't have to buy it just because he is selling it.

 

I believe I am more sold on this idea than he is. :) As I said it was a consensus we reached in a discussion of ours.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Exactly!

 

Its like he basically said he's staying a MM regardless of any protestations to that fact. In the OP, jennie says even she's guilty of making him feel guilty. Sounds like he's tired of everyone making him feel guilty, while he keeps the status quo.

 

Unapologetic MM = Big Time Cake Eater.

 

OK, if you want to play the abbreviation game:

Betrayed Spouse = Bitter Spouse :sick:

 

But you are correct in that he is tired of always being seen as the bad guy. There comes a point when you need to think about whether you agree with the image everyone is projecting on you or not.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Jennie, If your MM was legitimately unapologetic then there would be no reason for him to lie. I can promise you that if the A was exposed tomorrow, he would become apologetic. Maybe we could call him a conditionally unapologetic MM.

 

Except he has been very adamant for a long time about saying he is not going to stay in a marriage where he feels he has to keep apologizing.

 

But you probably are correct that initially he would be apologetic. He needs to internalize being unapologetic a lot more to not be affected by his wife's point of view come a Dday.

 

And don't forget, being unapologetic does not mean you are not sorry that someone has been hurt by your actions.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
It is a very difficult decision but how much more time does he need. He has been with you for 4 years and he still doesn't know what he wants?

 

Are you going to be ok if it takes him 2 more years to make a decision? What if he decides he'll just continue with the status quo. Will you be ok with that?

 

Well, he has still not started IC, and there are those who claim someone like my MM needs a minimum of two years of IC to be able to make a decision.

 

I don't promise. I stay as long as I feel the pros outweigh the cons. I have my bad days, but for now the good days weigh outnumber them.

datura_noir Established Member

datura_noir

Posted
Posted

You're still too wrapped up in "HIM".....It's like your whole life revolves around "HIM"....

 

Ya know, I could retell my story of my husband and I; how we were each others first loves and reconnected after 20+ years...and, yet he STILL cheated! But I will spare you.

 

Have you done anything meaningful with YOUR life in the past 4 years?? Other than research why certain men have affairs? What, pray tell, are you waiting for?? Do you have a Bachelors/Masters degree? Have you taken any self-realization classes? Why are you so wrapped up in this man's psyche??

 

Where do you see yourself in 10 years?? Or are you a feather in the wind??

 

I just think you need to get clear on yourself-no man (or woman) should be your alpha and omega....

NoIDidn't Established Member

NoIDidn't

Posted
Posted
OK, if you want to play the abbreviation game:

Betrayed Spouse = Bitter Spouse :sick:

 

How petty. SMH

moaningmyrtle Established Member

moaningmyrtle

Posted
Posted

Much of this thread has consisted of attacks on the character of Jennie's MM (and by implication Jennie). Jennie meanwhile has been singlehandedly fending off all comers in defence of this guy.

 

I've limited myself to one post - well this is now my second, so far.

 

I think it's become pointless as it just drives Jennie further into a corner.

awkward Established Member

awkward

Posted
Posted
Well, he has still not started IC, and there are those who claim someone like my MM needs a minimum of two years of IC to be able to make a decision.

 

I don't promise. I stay as long as I feel the pros outweigh the cons. I have my bad days, but for now the good days weigh outnumber them.

 

I don't think they mean he needs 2 years of IC to make a decision. I think they mean he needs a minimum of 2 years to heal or fix the problem within himself. I'm not a therapist so I don't know how long it takes for IC to work.

 

I really do hope he goes to IC and figures out what he wants. It just seems such a long time for you to wait for something that will complete your happiness. I think you deserve more but understand what you mean when you say the good days outnumber the bad days.

 

((Jennie))

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I had a conversation about some of this with my own fWH.

 

Firstly, I get a little uncomfortable posting what he says, but Jennie often acts as spokesman for her own MM, and many of us do this too. Probably because there are very few (if any) ongoing MM that post here. The few we get are usually in the throes of deciding whether to confess to or leave their wives, so sadly we have to make do with the women posting the viewpoint of their menfolk.

 

Background: On d-day my H was forced by the circumstances to make some decisions. He didn't voluntarily confess, nor did the OW tell me - I found out myself. I was literally unable to support my own weight as my legs kept giving way - I was also in no positing to "force" him to do anything - he had to work it out all by himself.

 

Essentially (as it appeared to me) he made a snap decision to end it with the OW. He got the chance to send her a brief e-mail in which he told her goodbye and said "I love Myrtle and want to stay with her and I'm sorry for the pain I have cause Myrtle and you". In our world "sorry" generally equates to an apology.

 

He told me today that he still feels enormous guilt for his treatment of the OW and the abrupt way it ended. Even though she always knew he was married and he was never going to easily make a decision to leave his wife, it would still have come as a complete shock to her. Just remember he did love her - and I know that, as did she.

 

I "get" the split-self personality, but if he was completely unapologetic (ie not at all sorry) for what he had done to both women, then I would have to say there would have to be something seriously wrong with his personality.

 

Surely only a complete sociopath has no guilt or level of "sorriness" for betraying his life partner for so long. It is irrelevant that he now loves the OW more and/or that she believes "love cannot be promised" (isn't that what happens when people get married - they make promises and vows?). It is not just people that a person loves that can be betrayed by someone.

 

From the way Jennie describes her MM (which is all we have to go on) he is involved in seriously deceiving and manipulating his wife and family and believes he has nothing to apologise for.

 

Myrtle, you bring up an interesting point whether to equal unapologetic with being not at all sorry. My stand is that unapologetic means that you know you are true to yourself and therefore have no reason to be apologetic even if you also sadly realize that being true to yourself means others will get hurt and this you are sorry for.

 

Alberoni states that a MM who ends his extramarital relationship for altruistic reasons will be living in an empty-shell marriage. Is this being true to himself? Is this doing what is best for the wife? Might it not be better for her if the MM figured out what he really wants, even if that would mean an initial betrayal?

 

I am surprised that a woman so obviously intelligent and introspective as Jennie is, is able to overlook this latter aspect of him.[/

 

Myrtle, this kind of comments make me :sick:. I am sure OWoman would have a name for them as being some kind of argumentative technique. You probably know what you are doing yourself, since I seem to remember reading you have studied argumentative technique as well.

NoIDidn't Established Member

NoIDidn't

Posted
Posted
Well, he has still not started IC, and there are those who claim someone like my MM needs a minimum of two years of IC to be able to make a decision.

 

I don't promise. I stay as long as I feel the pros outweigh the cons. I have my bad days, but for now the good days weigh outnumber them.

 

The links you gave me on Split Self didn't say that it would take two years for him to be able to make a decision. They said it would take two years to help him heal his Split. They also said that during that time they usually lost both the W and the OW.

 

Does he know that you don't promise? Split Self or not, I think this might make him think twice about the option to choose you. As I understand it, him being a Split Self doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with his marriage, per se. It meant that there was something wrong in the way that he handled what was expected of him in his marriage. Correct me if I am wrong or misunderstood

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
You're still too wrapped up in "HIM".....It's like your whole life revolves around "HIM"....

 

Ya know, I could retell my story of my husband and I; how we were each others first loves and reconnected after 20+ years...and, yet he STILL cheated! But I will spare you.

 

Have you done anything meaningful with YOUR life in the past 4 years?? Other than research why certain men have affairs? What, pray tell, are you waiting for?? Do you have a Bachelors/Masters degree? Have you taken any self-realization classes? Why are you so wrapped up in this man's psyche??

 

Where do you see yourself in 10 years?? Or are you a feather in the wind??

 

I just think you need to get clear on yourself-no man (or woman) should be your alpha and omega....

 

I am living my life exactly as I would if he was not in it. He just makes my life richer.

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Much of this thread has consisted of attacks on the character of Jennie's MM (and by implication Jennie). Jennie meanwhile has been singlehandedly fending off all comers in defence of this guy.

 

I've limited myself to one post - well this is now my second, so far.

 

I think it's become pointless as it just drives Jennie further into a corner.

 

:)

 

(10 characters necessary)

turnstone Established Member

turnstone

Posted
Posted
OK, if you want to play the abbreviation game:

Betrayed Spouse = Bitter Spouse :sick:

 

But you are correct in that he is tired of always being seen as the bad guy. There comes a point when you need to think about whether you agree with the image everyone is projecting on you or not.

 

Who sees him as the bad guy? Do his family and friends know about you? Is it your family and friends that see him as the bad guy?

datura_noir Established Member

datura_noir

Posted
Posted

Well, I'm done here. If you want to waste the remainder of your precious time on this Earth waiting for some old married fool that that you knew 20+ years ago that lives that far away, and you email mostly, to split himself in half, I wish you well.

 

Just do something productive for yourself in the meantime...you'll be so much better off regardless of the outcome.....

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
The links you gave me on Split Self didn't say that it would take two years for him to be able to make a decision. They said it would take two years to help him heal his Split.

 

You are correct. But can he make a decision before his split is healed? I remember reading that he should not end the affair - but he can put it on hold - until he has healed his split because the affair is his only way of being in contact with his emotional self.

 

They also said that during that time they usually lost both the W and the OW.

 

This I don't recollect reading at all.

 

Does he know that you don't promise? Split Self or not, I think this might make him think twice about the option to choose you.

 

He most certainly knows that I don't promise to stay with anyone. And I do believe it makes him think twice about the option to choose me.

 

As I understand it, him being a Split Self doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with his marriage, per se. It meant that there was something wrong in the way that he handled what was expected of him in his marriage. Correct me if I am wrong or misunderstood

 

What is wrong with his marriage is that two split selves without contact with their emotional selves are trying to make a go of it. If they both resolve this issue, they might very well be able to live happily ever after.

 

(I believe it was Brokenlady who gave you the links about Split Self?)

Edited by jennie-jennie
  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Well, I'm done here. If you want to waste the remainder of your precious time on this Earth waiting for some old married fool that that you knew 20+ years ago that lives that far away, and you email mostly, to split himself in half, I wish you well.

 

Just do something productive for yourself in the meantime...you'll be so much better off regardless of the outcome.....

 

We email mostly? Where did that come from? Not to talk about the rest. You do have a vivid imagination.

 

This is an OW/OM forum. Why are you expecting me to post about other parts of my life?

Edited by jennie-jennie
  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Who sees him as the bad guy? Do his family and friends know about you? Is it your family and friends that see him as the bad guy?

 

Okay, to specify, nobody sees HIM as the bad guy. But society sees every WS as the bad guy. Every movie you see for example, they very often end with the WS dying. So everywhere he looks, the WS is portrayed as the bad guy.

 

And his wife does not have to know for him to figure out that she will see him as the bad guy, you know.

turnstone Established Member

turnstone

Posted
Posted

So he's actually fed up with feeling guilty.

 

BTW, did you answer LB question about who he's being unapologetic *to*? His wife for cheating/lying/playing with her life/blah or to you for keeping you on the side?

anne1707 Established Member

anne1707

Posted
Posted
So all theoretical discussions are pointless and lead to nothing?

 

In my opinion it is very interesting to ponder whether the problem would be non-existant in a different type of society. Does that not indicate then that the problem rather lies with the society than the individual?

 

 

A theoretical discussion is fine but within the context of your actual relationship with your MM, you can never legally have a polygamous relationship even if he was honest with his wife and she agreed to it. On that basis, whilst you and he may have similar views, it cannot help resolve your situation hence pointless.

 

If he was to leave his wife and be with you, would you then be happy with him suggesting at some stage that you have a polygamous relationship where he spends half his time openly with another woman?

pureinheart Established Member

pureinheart

Posted
Posted

Of course I knew that the majority of posters, perhaps even all, would not agree with the concept of an Unapologetic Married Man. It is a new idea to me as well. Somebody has to be the pioneer, you know.

 

I believe the reason my MM considers himself to be unapologetic is because he is working towards a solution, working towards having only one woman. It just is a decision that can not be forced.

 

Except he has been very adamant for a long time about saying he is not going to stay in a marriage where he feels he has to keep apologizing.

 

But you probably are correct that initially he would be apologetic. He needs to internalize being unapologetic a lot more to not be affected by his wife's point of view come a Dday.

 

And don't forget, being unapologetic does not mean you are not sorry that someone has been hurt by your actions.

 

JJ, this is sensational! My daughter and I used to "apologize" for everything...being born even I think.

 

I do a lot of things I don't like and I'm tired of beating myself up over it...my daughter is a nervous wreck.

 

Both of us have always tried to be what everyone else thought we should be...I even did it to her at times.

 

I have to say, your threads ALWAYS liberate me, they free me...hey home girl, who always can write a book on anything is a bit speechless. I will speak more when this has had a chance to be internalized. The opression is leaving, thanks Jennie ((((((((hugggs)))))))

  • Author
jennie-jennie Established Member

jennie-jennie

Posted
  • Author
Posted
A theoretical discussion is fine but within the context of your actual relationship with your MM, you can never legally have a polygamous relationship even if he was honest with his wife and she agreed to it. On that basis, whilst you and he may have similar views, it cannot help resolve your situation hence pointless.

 

I still claim it is not pointless, because contemplating whether a man like my MM could have been happy in a different society is helpful to both him and me in understanding his character and the situation at hand.

 

If he was to leave his wife and be with you, would you then be happy with him suggesting at some stage that you have a polygamous relationship where he spends half his time openly with another woman?

 

Since my MM is exclusively romantic and sexual with me already today, I would not be comfortable in sharing that with another woman. But then again once he would have moved those parts on to another woman, I would not be interested in staying anyway.

pureinheart Established Member

pureinheart

Posted
Posted
Much of this thread has consisted of attacks on the character of Jennie's MM (and by implication Jennie). Jennie meanwhile has been singlehandedly fending off all comers in defence of this guy.

 

I've limited myself to one post - well this is now my second, so far.

 

I think it's become pointless as it just drives Jennie further into a corner.

 

Hi Moaning,

 

I just saw this thread and saw it was from Jennie and how many pages had accumulated in just a short while...then read what was going on.

 

Jennie my friend, you have handled yourself eloquently. I have a mouth on me and do not handle myself quite so well when under attack, and have a tendancy to be quite offensive to others when defending a friend/stand.

 

You two ladies have shown me time and time again the proper way to behave. Thank you. ;)

 

Oh and FTR how can we really judge his character...we are not in his shoes.

While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...