TaraMaiden Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Johnny I completely understand everything you say, and I see your reasoning. But there are two factors here: If you (and I'm using 'you' generically, not 'you' specifically) are the kind of guy who would have no problem accepting that a woman working in a massage parlour has a history, then that's one thing, and you go in with your eyes open. If you're the kind of guy who would have a problem with that, then it stands to reason, that your preferences or principles or whatever criteria you use as a benchmark, would prevent you from even considering the situation realistically. But if you openly begin dating a woman whose history you know has taken her into some pretty dark places, and you object to that, and you make her life a misery, and you bully and mentally abuse her - then that is completely unacceptable. Rosewithtaints' own issues with her past are bad enough, and frankly, she needs to address them, deal with them, accept that this is the way things panned out, and she made decisions which, with hindsight, she might have made differently. It doesn't matter. What happened, happened, and it's done. That's not a judgement, that's fact. And to a lesser or greater degree, we all do that. Hell, that's why most of us are here, discussing decisions and consequences, huh? In a nutshell, the issue is that this guy frankly, has no right to treat her the way he is, no matter what she has done, in the far or near past. There's no reason whatsoever why she should either accept this, or even expect this. Whether he knew from the start what she did because that's where he met her, or whether he had met her in another time, another place..... Nobody has the right to be abusive in a relationship, be it male or female, at all.
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 I don't think you totally deserve it, but you made a mistake and now you're dealing with the consequences. Everyone screw up at some point in life...but some in more fundamental ways than others. And I feel sorry for you, you have to understand that the majority of men would want to have nothing to do with you because of your past. I'm not trying to be mean - it's just the honest truth. So it's only reasonable to expect that a guy who would consider dating a troubled person like yourself would have demons of his own. Oh, cmon. That's just like telling a janitor who dropped out of middle school years ago and whose gf is treating him badly, 'Well, the majority of women won't want to have anything to do with you because of your job, so it's only reasonable to expect that a woman who would consider dating a person like yourself would have demons of her own. You made a mistake by fooling around as a teen and now you're dealing with the consequences'.
jthorne Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 We teach others how to treat us. If you don't want him to treat you that way, either tell him to stop or tell him to get lost.
Lizzie60 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 A little hypocritical, aren't we? Weren't you the one getting worked up over some guy lying to you? This is different... I didn't ask the guy how many partners he had in the past.. it's none of my business.. like it's no one business how many partners I had.. The past is the past.. and no one can change it..
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) I don't know if you could compare a prostitute to a janitor, even though it's true that most women would not date one. Convicted felon would be a better analogy, I think. Would you blame a woman for not wanting to date an ex-con, even if he is no longer involved in crime? And would you agree that, to borrow Lizzie60's expression, his past belongs to him and that he does not have to disclose his criminal past to the women he's dating? If prostitution is legal in her place, how would you equate that to a criminal? Did you even bother to ask if it was? And, let's be honest, is the issue here 'crime', or is it simply the fact that she worked an 'undesirable' job because it entailed her sleeping with many random men? I would have used a gigolo in my example, but given your double standards with regard to male/female sexuality and the master lock analogy, I figured that wouldn't be the best way to get my point across. And if you insist on using the 'crime' approach, how about this: Pirated goods vendor who hooked up with a girl he used to sell his pirated goods to. Girl then treats him badly because he's a pirated goods vendor. What do you tell him? This is a far better analogy than the rapist one, because rapists and prostitutes are so different that if you can't understand how, you really have no business advising anyone of anything. Edited April 4, 2010 by Elswyth
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 The thing is that the guy MET HER AT THE PARLOR AS A CUSTOMER. So yes, if the woman had had dealings with the pimp in the past (either as a prostitute or customer) and is now treating him badly for his past, that's just wrong and silly.
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) If we're talking morality here, the man was a customer at the prostitution den. People who consider prostitution immoral will not themselves partake of it. If he's so afraid of STDs, he wouldn't be sleeping with prostitutes, period. I don't think STDs care whether the two people having sex are in a relationship or are merely client and hooker. Edited April 4, 2010 by Elswyth
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Oh, so we're talking about 'most normal men' here, not the morality involved? Well then, 'most normal women' wouldn't date a janitor who dropped out of middle school either. So we're back to square one.
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 My dear, all you did was consistently emphasize your sole point while ignoring all logical argument. As you seem to not be getting mine, let's go on: So a janitor is dating a girl who is putting him down for his lack of education, initiative, and ambition, and of course for being dumb enough to drop out of school. She's the only one who has ever considered dating him in his 40 years of age. What would your advice to him be?
TaraMaiden Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 So if a guy was a child molester and rapist in the past, you'd be okay with him choosing to withhold that information from you? That's a different issue altogether....smoke and mirrors.... Nobody withheld anything from anyone, so excuse me, but what's your point here?
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Indeed I was. But I find it amusing how readily you resort to ad hominem and a simple reaffirmation of your statement in response to a thread of logic which refuted it, due to your inability to counter logic with logic.
Boxinirsh32 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 To the OP, I read through and the fact that you met this man in a parlor that you are trying to leave in your past and get over should tell you enough. You should leave him where you left the parlor; your past. To me this looks like a common situation, as bad as it is to put out there: You treat a girl like dirt and she'll stick to you like mud. -That is not a philosophy that I stick by. This man is absolutely crushing your self esteem and time is only going to make it harder and harder for you to move on. I see it as leaving emotional scars. Clearly this guy has some serious insecurities and in my humble opinion I think you should move on. Humans are, by nature, "fixers." This situation seems to be un-fixable and I think that you are going to only find more pain after this moment of him treating you a little better. Your past is in your past for a reason and as you have said you are trying to move on. To me it seems he is making it impossible for you to move on, with the constant reminders to the mistakes you made. If I were in your position I would really try to find a way to tell him to ***k off! You touched on his temper and how he is treating you now. Time is not going to make this better, typically it makes it worse. Soon you will be blaming yourself and thinking he is right for the things he is saying. Truthfully what he is saying is garbage and no human, regardless of their past, deserves to be treated with such disrespect. I fear that he will escalate with his temper and could possibly turn violent. Get out while you are able to. Don't continue to torture yourself with such a small man. A true man could treat you with the respect you deserve as a woman, and as a human. I'm done going on about this and I know that this is all just a bunch of words; but I grew up in a bad situation that started with a my mom being with a man that "had a temper," but he only yelled at first. Many hospitalizations and ambulance rides as well as arrests my mom took me and my brother away. That was about 8 years ago and sometimes she still blames herself. No one can make this decision for you, be careful and know that you do have friends that care. Try talking to your real friends for input as well. Even talk to a counselor if you need to. Just be careful with this so called man. -Patrick
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Dear OP; Your boyfriend is abusing you. If you made friends with any other women in the massage parlor, I'm sure that you know others with similarly abusive men in their lives. It's a pretty common scenario in your former line of work. Insecure, abusive men do tend to look for women whom they can debase to make themselves feel better. A lot of these guys do use services of sex workers, since they don't have enough confidence to function well socially. I can tell that you have low self esteem from the way you talk about yourself in your posts. Please find a way to feel good about yourself. I know you are not happy with yourself for working in the sex industry, but regardless of what MANY people think (including a lot of the men whose posts here were deleted) it's even possible to work in that world with your dignity in tact. If you feel terrible about that work, don't do it any more. Find something that doesn't erode your sense of worth. Make yourself proud - and then no man will be able to trash you like this again. You won't give a man like that the time of day. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it WILL be possible to find a worthy man who will love you for who you ARE and not judge you and denigrate you for your past.
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 On the other hand, few men would consider dating a female engineer who used to be a prostitute. An ex-janitor can cast aside his past; a prostitute cannot. Therein lies the fundamental difference between the two occupations. That's why ex-con makes for a much better analogy. Do you believe that most "normal" men would not be able to date a woman who was formerly a burlesque dancer? Or even currently?
Els Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 The OP says that she has given up her past job, so why would I advise her to something that she has already done? And this is where your analogy between janitors and hookers falls apart. Few women would refuse dating, say, an engineer simply because he was a janitor in the past. On the other hand, few men would consider dating a female engineer who used to be a prostitute. An ex-janitor can cast aside his past; a prostitute cannot. Therein lies the fundamental difference between the two occupations. That's why ex-con makes for a much better analogy. If that is the case, how about the men who have 'undesirable' traits that they cannot currently change, such as this woman's past? How about the 4'9" man, the guy who had an accident and badly scarred his face... and yes, the ex convict who was put in jail for stealing cash to pay for his dying dad's medical treatment? Shall they put up with poor treatment from their girlfriend, because she's one of the few who will accept them? I refrained from using this analogy previously because it sounds horribly cold-hearted, but I suppose it sounds no less cold-hearted than saying a prostitute is doomed to poor treatment from screwed-up men forever, no matter what she does.
A O Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Do you believe that most "normal" men would not be able to date a woman who was formerly a burlesque dancer? Or even currently? Most normal men wouldn't "want" to date a prostitute, that much is true. As for the OP, the brief smidgen I've read indicates to me that she'll have to go to the absolute brink of despair before she sees any sense, if indeed she ever does. .
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 What's a "burlesque dancer"? Does it involve trading sex for money? No, it does involve showing one's body suggestively for money, though.
taiko Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 No, it does involve showing one's body suggestively for money, though. It still makes her a sex worker though. As such she would be untouchable to many, ranking below the B movie actress who does R-rated sex scenes but above the stripper who does lap dances on top of male erections. Many retiring sex workers fall into the trap of getting involved with an ex customer or a support staff pimp, the guards DJs managers etc of the sex industry. After all the big secret is already out. It can work but in the back of both partners minds is the knowledge that one sold and the other paid for it at some level of penetration or rubbing.
123BeachFan Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 He knew from Day One your profession. And furthermore, you've quit your job and have moved away from that line of work to respect him. But this guy is seriously a total jerk. He belittles you to put you down and keep you in your place. What an a$$! Oh, please dump this guy today and move on in your life. You are so much better than him. He doesn't deserve another minute of your time. I am reminded of a complete loser I knew once who would date only strippers and illegal immigrants. My theory was that he would play the Superiority bit with them, and they'd stick around because he'd make them feel like he was doing them a favor. But in truth he could never last in a healthy, equal relationship. Get yourself out of there, Girl. Find a job you are proud of, and find yourself a man who knows how to treat you as the gem you really are. Best of luck!
Lizzie60 Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 He knew from Day One your profession. And furthermore, you've quit your job and have moved away from that line of work to respect him. But this guy is seriously a total jerk. He belittles you to put you down and keep you in your place. What an a$$! Oh, please dump this guy today and move on in your life. You are so much better than him. He doesn't deserve another minute of your time. I am reminded of a complete loser I knew once who would date only strippers and illegal immigrants. My theory was that he would play the Superiority bit with them, and they'd stick around because he'd make them feel like he was doing them a favor. But in truth he could never last in a healthy, equal relationship. Get yourself out of there, Girl. Find a job you are proud of, and find yourself a man who knows how to treat you as the gem you really are. Best of luck! Best post on this thread!!!
Jersey Shortie Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Dear OP; Your boyfriend is abusing you. If you made friends with any other women in the massage parlor, I'm sure that you know others with similarly abusive men in their lives. It's a pretty common scenario in your former line of work. Insecure, abusive men do tend to look for women whom they can debase to make themselves feel better. A lot of these guys do use services of sex workers, since they don't have enough confidence to function well socially. I can tell that you have low self esteem from the way you talk about yourself in your posts. Please find a way to feel good about yourself. I know you are not happy with yourself for working in the sex industry, but regardless of what MANY people think (including a lot of the men whose posts here were deleted) it's even possible to work in that world with your dignity in tact. If you feel terrible about that work, don't do it any more. Find something that doesn't erode your sense of worth. Make yourself proud - and then no man will be able to trash you like this again. You won't give a man like that the time of day. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it WILL be possible to find a worthy man who will love you for who you ARE and not judge you and denigrate you for your past. I think this is wonderful advice. OP, you don't need to apologize for your past to this man. We all make mistakes and we all do things we sometimes regret. Can I ask you something? Do you like the person you are? If you do, then your past is part of the reason you are who you are. Just as much the mistakes as the right choices. Please don't settle for this man because you feel like you are in a tough spot. He is abusive.
Author rosewithtaints Posted April 5, 2010 Author Posted April 5, 2010 I think this is wonderful advice. OP, you don't need to apologize for your past to this man. We all make mistakes and we all do things we sometimes regret. Can I ask you something? Do you like the person you are? If you do, then your past is part of the reason you are who you are. Just as much the mistakes as the right choices. Please don't settle for this man because you feel like you are in a tough spot. He is abusive. Finally im able to see the some of the posts that were deleted away from the forum. i apologize because i feel as though i am the one who is putting him this misery of my past. yes, i like the person that i am now because i believe i have grow and learned. but somehow deep down i know there are certain things that whatever i do, cannot be wind back or change. thanks for all the supports and advices posted in this thread by the fellow podders. life is short and i should make the best out of it. i am not involved in that area of job anymore, and im busy furthuring my studies and taking up several proper jobs. as in for my bf, im still with him, but the arguments and cold wars that we have had kinda numbed me already. i still can not master the courage nor bear to leave him. but apparently i am trying to not to be too affected by the comments he made. that's the best that i am able to do for now.
Author rosewithtaints Posted April 5, 2010 Author Posted April 5, 2010 and thanks so much for the encouragements. they certainly help to lighten up my mood and i dont feel as if im really at the dead end. i know there are some things that i need to regain and go searching for. because these are the fundamentals for me to build back my life again.
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