Author VertexSquared Posted April 1, 2010 Author Posted April 1, 2010 I think I am just going to not hang out with her alone anymore. That seems like the best option.
alphamale Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 I think I am just going to not hang out with her alone anymore. That seems like the best option. no, just don't hang out with her at all. you may get a call in 3 months from her saying she wants to hook up. thats how chicks are. if you ignore her you become potential romantic material. but if you stay in contact with her or friends with her there is no way you'lll get into her pants
Yamaha Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 I had a girl one time tell me if we could be friends. Now she knew I didn't want to be just friends but I said, sure! ( but I told her I would be dating other women as I was wanting a relationship, if not with her than with another women ). Well, 2 days later she called me and asked if I was serious about dating other women and I told her yes, i was. She said she didn't want me dating other women as she would be jealous so we went back to dating. My point is if I would have accepted the friendship she offered because I was afraid of losing her company I would have wound up as a friend but because I told her friendship was not enough she made the decision to date. Women will test you to see if you are serious about them or if you are willing to just be a friend.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 1, 2010 Author Posted April 1, 2010 no, just don't hang out with her at all. you may get a call in 3 months from her saying she wants to hook up. thats how chicks are. if you ignore her you become potential romantic material. but if you stay in contact with her or friends with her there is no way you'lll get into her pants I just think it's such an absurd concept to begin with -- ignoring to generate interest.
alphamale Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 I just think it's such an absurd concept to begin with -- ignoring to generate interest. life is absurd
MalachiX Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Ok, I may sound harsh in my advice but, once again, it's only because I'm a fellow shy guy and I know that telling yourself comfortable rationalizations gets you no where. That said, GROW UP! Stuff like this pisses me off and is exactly why I am so shy in the first place. Apparently friendly gestures = usually friendly Apparently "romantic" gestures = may not actually be romantic Apparently "affectionate" gestures = may not imply anything romantic either It seems as if I have to just assume ALL gestures are friendly and that nobody is ever interested -- but this assumption is what makes me so shy to begin with. First off, it's not here fault you're shy nor are you shy because women are sometimes hard to read. You're shy and have been friend-zoned because of you. If you want to get passed this awkwardness then focus on yourself and don't whine about her. For that matter, she's not being unclear. Your statement kind of seems to be a male equivelant to posts I've seen by girls on these boards wondering if a guy is just using them for sex. These girls describe a guy who just sees them as a booty call and never dates them but still describes his actions as "mixed signals" even though it's clear to everyone else that he's just using them for sex. You say she's being unclear but everyone here seems to realize that she doesn't want a relationship with you and is, "using" you for support and affection. Yes she acted affectionate but she TOLD you that you're too young for her to be dating and, when you confessed your interest to her, she did not reciprocate. How much clearer does she have to be? I havn't read any or your other threads so I don't know your history but it kind of sounds like you've never had a girlfriend. I have a feeling that, even if you were still a few years older, she still wouldn't be interested because of your lack of relationship experience. What usually attracts a younger girl to older men is that they're confident, experienced, and no who they are and what they want. You talk about your maturity but, at least as far as dating goes, it sounds like you're completely at a loss. I don't think she cares what year you were born but rather what your mentality is and it's not that of an older man. I think your first priority should be getting some experience. If you're a relativly good looking guy, I'm sure there have probably been girls who have had crushes on you. Maybe you weren't uber-into them but at this point it's probably a good idea to try dating someone who DOESN'T intimidate you so you can get more comfortable with the process and yourself. I know that having a low-key relationship with someone who wasn't intimidating helped me a lot in college. Just don't get into the habbit of dating no-one but "safe" girls or you will end up frustrated. If you are 23 years old and never had a real relationship, it's really time you started to grow up. You can keep pining over this girl who isn't interested in your or you can actually try to start dating other people and get to a place where you will be comfortable and confident enough with yourself to have a real relationship and not get friend-zoned. Trust me when I tell you that you REALLY need to learn this stuff soon or it's going to be infinately harder. I've known people who missed their chance to learn how to date during their college years and, once they got into their late 20s, they felt so far behind they didn't know what to do at all.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 I've had six years relationship experience with like 3 different girls (across highschool and college) -- the thing is that they basically made the first move (with like one exception but she was giving rather strong signals). Being a boyfriend is not nearly as hard as it is getting past the opening lines. Just getting my foot in the door is SO difficult for me. This girl actually just contacted me wanting to go for another walk. She's never done that before. Now I am genuinely confused.
MalachiX Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I just think it's such an absurd concept to begin with -- ignoring to generate interest. Perhaps its the only way to show her you're independent. Look at it like this: Are you attracted to girls who seem weak, clingy, and lost without you or are you attracted to strong independent women who challenge you? I know I'm attracted to the latter. Being nice and non-threatening is comforting to a girl but it's not exciting or challenging in any way. You want to show her that you're an equal and someone who can inspire her the way she inspires you. Being shy and pleasant doesn't do that. If it makes you feel better, your current affect may come in handy in 10-15 years as it seems women of that age have grown tired of bad-boys and start looking for safe guys they can settle down with. I've lost track of how many smart, attractive women in their late to mid 30s (or early 40s) I've seen settle down with boring dorks who are beneath them. Of course, a steady income is also a requirment...
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 Perhaps its the only way to show her you're independent. Look at it like this: Are you attracted to girls who seem weak, clingy, and lost without you or are you attracted to strong independent women who challenge you? I know I'm attracted to the latter. Being nice and non-threatening is comforting to a girl but it's not exciting or challenging in any way. You want to show her that you're an equal and someone who can inspire her the way she inspires you. Being shy and pleasant doesn't do that. If it makes you feel better, your current affect may come in handy in 10-15 years as it seems women of that age have grown tired of bad-boys and start looking for safe guys they can settle down with. I've lost track of how many smart, attractive women in their late to mid 30s (or early 40s) I've seen settle down with boring dorks who are beneath them. Of course, a steady income is also a requirment... I am generally attracted to rather strong, independent women. Intellect is a massive turn-on for me. I'm in my early 20's, very well-educated, very successful (I'll be clocking over 100k my first year out of college at only 50 hours of work per week in finance -- I don't let people know how much I make though), decent looking, tall, talented, honest, affectionate, loving, etc. The problem is that I am just extremely shy and often socially awkward around new people. But last night was such an exception, largely because I was drunk. I was able to let loose and we connected really well. The problem is that we basically found we wanted the same things in relationships/she basically said I was her ideal guy but "too young," which to me makes no sense. If you like someone, why does age matter? She admitted I was far more mature than most guys my age (as a result of my life experiences which have been very difficult and easily fourth-sigma in terms of frequency), but she seemed a bit surprised when I revealed my "crush" to her. I had decided to just lay low but now she's contacting me to hang out tonight again. Again, this never really happened before (we've rarely hung out one-on-one -- it's normally been group hangouts). Do you think this screams "taking advantage of affections" or "possible interest now that she knows I am interested"?
MalachiX Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I've had six years relationship experience with like 3 different girls (across highschool and college) -- the thing is that they basically made the first move (with like one exception but she was giving rather strong signals). Not to delve too much into your personal life but are you in fact still a virgin like the other guy indicated? I don't mean to sound harsh but that can make a big difference as far as dealing with women goes. I think most modern women (at least in New York) expect sexuality to be part of a relationship and if you're a virgin then you're at a loss and your past relationships don't mean a whole lot. Being a boyfriend is not nearly as hard as it is getting past the opening lines. Just getting my foot in the door is SO difficult for me. Then start asking out a lot of girls just to get more practice and confidence getting your foot in the door. I know it's not easy but you don't have much of a choice. You're not going to magically get better at this without taking action. This girl actually just contacted me wanting to go for another walk. She's never done that before. Now I am genuinely confused. You shouldn't be. She wants to go for a walk because you're a friend who's there for her emotionally. If you take it as a sign of something more, you're just dilluding yourself again. Go for the walk if you like but don't expect anything. Of course, I may be totally wrong and she'll confess her undying love to you.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 Oh no I have an insane amount of sexual experience -- it's actually a strong talent of mine, haha (I am poor at reading social cues but very good at reading sexual ones). I'm very much a physical/sexual person... but it's hard to get past the opening lines, again. I'm a bit like a geyser or something. Extremely shy/calm, but once I get the green light, I have a very passionate wild side with few inhibitions.
Yamaha Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 The decision is yours. If you want to date her ask her out. If you don't want to rock the boat then continue as you are and learn how to be a friend when she talks about the other men she's dating.
Hot Carl Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 She doesn't dig you. Don't blame yourself or your shyness or whatever. Forget all that. Don't sign up to be her friend if that's not actually how you feel. The BEST thing you can do is stop thinking about it. If shy is what you are, then accept it. Work within the boundaries of who you are and don't regret it. You'll find the shyness dissipate after you learn to accept yourself. Whether she accepts you or not is irrelevant in the long run.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 Why would she ask to go for another walk with me though, knowing that I admitted to liking her (again she usually never asks to hang out, especially two days in a row like this)? I would have a difficult time believing that she would deliberately toy with my feelings like that. She is totally a very nice person, but again, maybe I am wrong here. Perhaps I am being naive?
MalachiX Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I am generally attracted to rather strong, independent women. Intellect is a massive turn-on for me. I'm in my early 20's, very well-educated, very successful (I'll be clocking over 100k my first year out of college at only 50 hours of work per week in finance -- I don't let people know how much I make though), decent looking, tall, talented, honest, affectionate, loving, etc. The problem is that I am just extremely shy and often socially awkward around new people. I don't know man. I can't help but think that, if you were as confident or "successful" as you're trying to sound on this thread, you wouldn't be so shy with people. You keep saying you're talented and mature and all these other things and act like the shyness is just an unexplainable quirk of your personality. I just have trouble buying that. My guess is that you have some real insecurities that you're not admitting or exploring. I'm not a therapist but I think there's more here than you're letting on. The problem is that we basically found we wanted the same things in relationships/she basically said I was her ideal guy but "too young," which to me makes no sense. If you like someone, why does age matter? You indicate you're a smart guy so I can't help but feeling that you're being deliberatly obtuse (sorry if I'm way off base and just being a jerk). Physically, there's no real difference between a 23-year-old and a 27-year-old. SHE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR AGE!!! She's talking about your personality. Maybe you're successful in some ways but I'm guessing something about you feels "young" to her and I'm guessing it's how you interact with women or your "shyness." She admitted I was far more mature than most guys my age (as a result of my life experiences which have been very difficult and easily fourth-sigma in terms of frequency), but she seemed a bit surprised when I revealed my "crush" to her. People mean different things when it comes to maturity, especially women. She may mean that you don't make fart jokes or get trashed with your friends every single night but it sounds like you still treat dating like you're in high-school. As far as romance is concerned, she wants you to be able to deal with relationships in a mature way. I had decided to just lay low but now she's contacting me to hang out tonight again. Again, this never really happened before (we've rarely hung out one-on-one -- it's normally been group hangouts). Do you think this screams "taking advantage of affections" or "possible interest now that she knows I am interested"? In all liklihood, she's asking to hang out because she knows it was awkward for you to admit you liked her and wants to be nice and let you know that the friendship isn't destroyed even though she doesn't want to date you. I guess she could be calling you because she WANTs to be in a relationship but this doesn't gel with what you said earlier. For the record, I hope I'm wrong and she jumps your bones and you give hope to all the shy guys of the world.
Hot Carl Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Who knows why they do anything. You'll never know if you don't accept the invitation. But just don't let her mess with your feelings. She may not be doing it on purpose. But don't let things settle on friendship. Make it clear that "more" is all you really want, and if you find she's continually leading you on, find something else to do.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 I don't know man. I can't help but think that, if you were as confident or "successful" as you're trying to sound on this thread, you wouldn't be so shy with people. You keep saying you're talented and mature and all these other things and act like the shyness is just an unexplainable quirk of your personality. I just have trouble buying that. My guess is that you have some real insecurities that you're not admitting or exploring. I'm not a therapist but I think there's more here than you're letting on. You indicate you're a smart guy so I can't help but feeling that you're being deliberatly obtuse (sorry if I'm way off base and just being a jerk). Physically, there's no real difference between a 23-year-old and a 27-year-old. SHE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR AGE!!! She's talking about your personality. Maybe you're successful in some ways but I'm guessing something about you feels "young" to her and I'm guessing it's how you interact with women or your "shyness." People mean different things when it comes to maturity, especially women. She may mean that you don't make fart jokes or get trashed with your friends every single night but it sounds like you still treat dating like you're in high-school. As far as romance is concerned, she wants you to be able to deal with relationships in a mature way. In all liklihood, she's asking to hang out because she knows it was awkward for you to admit you liked her and wants to be nice and let you know that the friendship isn't destroyed even though she doesn't want to date you. I guess she could be calling you because she WANTs to be in a relationship but this doesn't gel with what you said earlier. For the record, I hope I'm wrong and she jumps your bones and you give hope to all the shy guys of the world. I'm not lying about any of my traits, but I am indeed very shy. It's just a sidequirk -- I am a perfectionist and so I feel very insecure when I feel like I am doing something suboptimally. The shyness is definitely correlated with an outward signal of lack of confidence which is likely the reason why she was hesitant to begin with. I was just hoping that the fact we were drunk/being open would allow her to see that I am actually not so bad once the shyness melts away, haha.
boogieboy Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I'm not lying about any of my traits, but I am indeed very shy. It's just a sidequirk -- I am a perfectionist and so I feel very insecure when I feel like I am doing something suboptimally. Youre NOT a perfectionist. Because if you were , you would have fixed your shyness already. YOu already know youre shy, but youre not doing anything about it. How is it you can pull off a 100k salary and be good at sex but you cant get this right? Youre holding yourself back and you have no excuse as to why. Either you make a move or stop hanging with her altogether.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 Youre NOT a perfectionist. Because if you were , you would have fixed your shyness already. YOu already know youre shy, but youre not doing anything about it. How is it you can pull off a 100k salary and be good at sex but you cant get this right? Youre holding yourself back and you have no excuse as to why. Either you make a move or stop hanging with her altogether. Shyness is an automatic function of my personality -- it's an irrational mental hangup I don't know how to get around. I can't just "logic" it away. I'm not making this **** up -- it's just how it is. Believe me, nobody's more frustrated about it than I am. I don't know how to get rid of the shyness without drowning it in alcohol to the point where I'm not caring about what I say or do, or not caring about how absurd social interaction "games" are at this age. I've got the product. I just suck at the advertising.
Author VertexSquared Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 That probably means that you are compensating for your own lack in some of these areas (in other words, you need a GF who would also double as a mommy). A strong, well-adjusted man doesn't need a strong, brainy, independent woman. Don't get me wrong, those qualities don't hurt, but they are not huge pluses either. The most important qualities in a woman are, above all, loyalty and obedience. Different strokes, etc. I find strong, brainy independence to be huge pluses. Loyalty and obedience are, too, but I'm simply not interested one iota in a girl without brains. My last relationship was with a girl who was indeed loyal and obedient but was on a very different level from me intellectually, and it just did not work out.
boogieboy Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Shyness is an automatic function of my personality -- it's an irrational mental hangup I don't know how to get around. I can't just "logic" it away. I'm not making this **** up -- it's just how it is. Believe me, nobody's more frustrated about it than I am. I don't know how to get rid of the shyness without drowning it in alcohol to the point where I'm not caring about what I say or do, or not caring about how absurd social interaction "games" are at this age. I've got the product. I just suck at the advertising. Its not irrational. Its perfectly rational and logical. Its called fear. Its called youre afraid to lose the fish with aggressive bait. You have to learn that you cant make everyone like you. You cant worry about what happens, you just have to go after what you want, whether it works or not. You have to be willing to say "forget you then!" Until you learn that you have to take the chance and risk the loss, youre going to be stuck.
Left in a Lurch Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Reading the posts I have to say it looks like you are completely friend zoned. Women with no interest in you will hang on you, hug you, tell you you're the best, say they love being around you, cuddle, and then go home with someone else. Think of a woman you find really cool but you are not attracted to, like a friend's gf or wife or a co-worker. You probably do a lot of the same things but have no intention of doing anything with her except have fun hanging out. Female friends are more touchy feely/affectionate than guys but it's the same concept. I would say the major red flag I see is when she asked why you couldn't be older. Sounds like it was a complete pre-emptive rejection statement to me. Nothing you could answer could work around that. It would be like if you said to a girl that liked you, "Why can't you be Asian?" You'd only say that if you genuinely liked her but not in a romantic way. You wouldn't say that if she had a chance at all. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt I am. The crappy part is she'll probably end up dating a total db 2 years younger than you and ask you to hang out with the two of them.
threebyfate Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 loyalty and obedience.Good gawd, get a puppy. Vertex, take a risk. It's okay to lose a potential friend. If you keep acting like a friend to every woman you meet, you're going to get friendzoned, time and again. No woman is going to know you're interested, unless you make a move. And if she's not interested in you romantically, she'll let you know. Go out with this girl. Make a move. If it doesn't work, that's okay too. She's most definitely not repulsed or upset, that you like her. If she was, she wouldn't have called you up.
MalachiX Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 You now Vertex, I know it may sound like we're being rather harsh but there's just a real disconnect from what you're describing and your general perception of yourself. You say that you're completely confident with pretty much every aspect of your life. You claim to have "a lot" of relationship experience," an "insane amount of sexual experience," and to be "very talented" and "very successful." You say there is no greater insecurity issue and your shyness is "just a side-quirk." I'm just having trouble understanding how if you really believed you were such a catch you would be so very shy with people. I'm having trouble understanding how if you have so much relationship experience (and thus experience with women), you would honestly think the problem was a few extra digits on your birthdate rather than something about you. I have trouble understanding how, if your shyness is such a minor quirk yet you are such a mature and talented perfectionist, how you still havn't found a way to deal with your shyness. I'm honestly NOT trying to cut you down or hurt your feelings but something about your descriptions of yourself and your situation seem very out-of-touch. But forget all that for a moment. If you REALLY were so into this girl and she was REALLY so all over you and you were both drunk, WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU KISS HER!?!?!? I'm shy and have tons of shy friends but I can't think of anyone who would be drunk with a girl he finds attractive who is currently hanging off him and not at least make out with her. You talk about having great physical chemistry, being comfortable with yourself sexually, and being in a very open and comfortable mood since you were drunk yet you somehow let this opportunity pass. I think you may really want to ask yourself why you didn't make a move physically and try to delve deeper than "I'm just a little shy." I think that's far more likely to help you find happier relationships than blaming your troubles on a little personality quirk or screaming at the sky, "oh why couldn't I just be a few years older?!?!?" Different strokes, etc. I find strong, brainy independence to be huge pluses. Loyalty and obedience are, too, but I'm simply not interested one iota in a girl without brains. My last relationship was with a girl who was indeed loyal and obedient but was on a very different level from me intellectually, and it just did not work out. I'm a little creeped out that you twice referred to your ideal woman is "obedient." It's another statement that comes across really antiquated and out of touch.
troggleputty Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Vertex, the real reason you didn't make a move is because there is something, probably physical, about this girl that turns you off. Or, doesn't turn you on enough to have tried to kiss her when you had the opportunity. In other words, you feel affectionate towards her and friendly. But, sexually, she doesn't really turn you on. But, because you're shy, you perceive yourself as lacking other "better" opportunities. So, you don't really like her enough in a sexual/romantic way to just try to get really physical with her for its own sake. On the other hand, you're chastising yourself for not doing so, because you don't have other present opportunities. Think about it. Is this particular girl all you really want, purely from a physical standpoint? Forget about your warm feelings/friendship. If you're a perfectionist then if she's missing something, even if she's otherwise nice, you won't really want to get physical with her. So IMO that's the source of your conflict. Look, you shouldn't feel like you have to try to force yourself to get romantic or sexual with a particular girl simply because no one else is available right now. The solution is not to force yourself, it's to stay friendly with this girl and find other opportunities. Let's be realistic: you were drunk, she was drunk, you like her, yet you still couldn't bring yourself to kiss her. You want to be a nice guy and not say "Well the real reason I didn't want to kiss her is darn it I want a girl with a bigger chest" or "her nose is funny looking" or whatever the problem with her is. When you find someone that you are REALLY attracted to I don't think you'll have this problem. All you need to do is get out there and make yourself more opportunities. If you do that you'll find someone that you are REALLY attracted to and who is REALLY attracted to you and what seems so difficult right now will become very very simple and natural. Relax. Peace. This girl just doesn't do it for you.
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