Depression and student visa

[Els]

I finally found out the problem my bf has been having all the while - medical depression. I asked him why he didn't seek any help, and he said he can't - if he does, he'll have to declare in his student visa (he's studying overseas on a student visa) that he has depression and they may revoke it and not allow him to remain there. It does make sense, because there is actually a section in the visa declaration that involves mental health, but isn't it a gross breach of human rights, that someone cannot seek medical attention for depression because he'll risk having his visa revoked?

[Rollercoasterr]

It sounds wrong, but when you think about it, it's better to have students with mental depression at home. When they are on a student visa, they are alone, and are more prone to suicide. The very worst thing you can do is grant someone the ability to be alone while they are clinically depressed.

 

Plus, if you were to want to take treatment for it, the student would have to pay out of pocket since having a visa doesn't give you insurance. Having to pay a bunch of money is enough to make any student NOT want to get treated, thus making the problem worse.

 

And honestly, I don't think they would deny him a visa based on this. It may be different, but in the family visa world applicants have to go through a medical exam. If they are found to have a history of depression they must go through and pass a psychological exam.

 

IMO, if he were to declare this on his visa there's a chance that they will make him undergo a psychological test to determine if he is to keep his visa. If he passes, he stays. If he doesn't, visa is revoked. Of course, there is always the chance that whoever looks over his petition will decide that if your boyfriend is suffering from this NOW that he must have always had a history with it and call is visa fraud. That's the worst case scenario.

 

Overall, Els, he HAS to get treatment. He can't want to save people and treat them and let himself go untreated at the same time. If he wants to do well in school he needs to have a sound mind and body.

[Els]

His parents mortgaged the house and are separated working in two different countries to put him through med school, and this is his final year... if they revoke it he can't transfer credits.

[Rollercoasterr]

And with all due respect, if he doesn't get help he may sink farther and farther into depression and the outcome might not be good anyway, and you know what I mean by not good.

 

Els, I've been here for a few years, and over the years your relationship gets darker and darker. This isn't something that just started happening. He's been going down hill for a long time. He needs help.

 

I know you love him and you want him to succeed but now is NOT the time to suck it all up and go on. This is his HEALTH.

[Els]

I told him that he needed that, but he doesn't want to send the 1.5 million+ of our currency that his parents have worked all their lives for to waste, and I can't blame him for that. I guess for now my decision is whether to leave him alone in the darkness or to save myself (and perhaps cause him to sink further), perhaps.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Elswyth

[Els]

He agreed to pick up St John's Wort from the pharmacy, since you don't need a prescription for that. For the moment, I'm trying to not even think about all this because I have very important finals coming up. But if anyone has any suggestions that wouldn't involve a revoked visa and the loss of 1.5 million, I would very, very much appreciate them.

[Away]

Clinical depression is NOT something that you can treat yourself, with over the counter meds or natural remedies... But, since he hasn't been to the doctor, and probably diagnosed himself, chances are he is NOT clinically depressed and he CAN help himself.

 

I would recommend getting some self help books, excercise, eating right and all that... There was a time in my life when I thought I was depressed, never took any meds, just found an online board like this one where I could write about my feelings and what was going on with me that made me feel depressed and I got better... maybe something like that could help your boyfriend.

 

Best of luck!

 

Oh, one last thing... I am new to these boards, so I don't know the whole story between you two, but if he's hurting you in anyway, even if it is due to his "depression", you are by no means obligated to stay there "in the darkness" as you put it.

 

You have a right to be happy and be treated well... and he is NOT your responsibility.

[northstar1]

Elswyth - I know you love this guy, but since I've followed your threads, it seems there is always something going on from his end that leaves you feeling frustrated/alone/unwanted etc.

 

Depression is serious, and in most cases, St. John's Wort isn't going to cure it.

 

IF he doesn't want to treat it properly, then he is sacrificing his own wellbeing, as well as yours.

[Kamille]

i'm not sure where he is studying, but I've been abroad on student visas. The first year I lived in France I was diagnosed with a chronic (physical) disease and it have no impact whatsoever on my visa renewal.

 

I am also currently awaiting news on another student Visa and, were I to been diagnosed with a problem while I was there, the only thing that would be affected is my health coverage (as this country cannot, by it's constitution, discriminate against visitors based on non-contagious and non-threatening illnesses).

 

I would anonymously get in touch with his host's country's embassy to find out more details about depression (which hasn't been diagnosed as clinical as far as I can tell from this thread), treatment and visa requirements.

[blind_otter]

Is this self-diagnosed clinical depression?

[Els]

Yes, B_O. Can't get a proper diagnosis as of yet because it would have to be an official thing, which would bring risks.

 

I did check with the immigration and there is no black and white statement that it will necessarily cause revokement of the visa. However, there have been real cases where people have been sent back for it. I guess an extra problem here is that they don't want doctors, albeit trainee doctors, to be running around treating people when they themselves have clinical depression. But that's just wrong in so many ways - if a non-citizen trainee is depressed and wants to keep his course, he has to hide his depression?!

 

Northstar: It's not so much he doesn't want to treat it, as he doesn't want to put his parents' whole lives to waste because of it. I know it's unusual for parents to dump their life savings into a college fund for an American family where college is heavily subsidised and there is no need to study abroad, but here it's not all that uncommon. Everyone just wants to get out, to get their own slice of first-world life. This, I can completely understand.

 

However, you're right that I don't necessarily need to live with it. I will, however, not make that decision at the moment, as there are more important things in my life to stress over right now, and I want to give him time to see what can be done now that we have identified the problem.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Elswyth

[blind_otter]

I urge you to tread lightly. Untreated clinical depression can lead to suicide.

 

This seems a little weird. I mean, if you have a physical illness, or a mental problem, you can take a medical leave from your studies. You can come back to them after the issue has been resolved.

 

Besides the fact that he may not even HAVE clinical depression, but some kind of nutritional deficiency, or some other mental illness that shares certain charactaristics of clinical depression. This just isn't the sort of thing you can really self diagnose all that well.

[Els]

As depression isn't exactly a one-time acute thing and application for a visa requires a history of mental illness, you really think there isn't a chance they'll reject someone for it? Or that his future hospital employers or his med school will?

[Kamille]

As depression isn't exactly a one-time acute thing and application for a visa requires a history of mental illness, you really think there isn't a chance they'll reject someone for it? Or that his future hospital employers or his med school will?

 

But that's the thing... Depression can be a one-time thing and it can be treated. Clinical depression is more complicated, but as of now, there is no way to assess whether your bf has CD or is going through a depressive episode.

 

What if your bf took a one year leave and came home for treatment. How do they track his health record? What kind of proof do they require for the VISA application? (I had to provide a letter from my doctor which certified I am fit to travel abroad).

Edited April 2, 2010 by Kamille

[Els]

I don't think he can do that. His father has been working away from home for like 10 years to earn the cash needed to send him to med school, and if he takes a year's leave, that's one more year his dad has to be away from home. A lot more than 1 year, actually, if they don't refund him this year's tuition fees (which are almost 200k in our currency). And what if they don't accept him back?

 

See, the thing is, that he's mostly functional. No suicidal thoughts (although I suspect that's mainly because of how much his family is relying on him), his schoolwork only suffers to a small degree (although he's confided in me that it took him tremendous effort to keep it from doing so). He just gets really down and irrationally angry and sad for no reason sometimes, and stressors affect him more than they should. I agree that it may possibly not be clinical depression per se, but something closely related. Not really anything worth risking his whole future for.

 

I suppose for now I'll only advise him about the supplements and general health-related stuff as one poster suggested, and stop pressuring him about relationship-related things, and see how it goes. I realize that if this continues indefinitely, I cannot stay indefinitely. But I also cannot leave him in this time of darkness, I have to at least give him a chance to try and see what can be done. A quote springs to mind: If I cannot handle him at his worst, did I really deserve him at his best? And at his best, he really was the best.

 

For his health record, I believe they only thing they need as 'proof' is a checkup. But he also has to declare any past major illnesses.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Elswyth

[Kamille]

I had a burn out a few years ago, or rather, what my doctor called "professional fatigue". She prescribed a few weeks of rest, some cognitive counseling and some exercise and that did the trick.

 

She did not find it necessary to declare it as a "major illness" in my visa application letter. Nor do I think of it as a major illness. I have since learned, thanks to a good therapist, coping skills that help me deal with my stress. Plus, I was a PhD students at the time and... did you know... Students show a high rate of stress-related depressive episodes? I guess what I'm saying is: he's going through a depressive period. With just the right help, this isn't a chronic illness that has to scar him for life - and while it is serious, it isn't a "major illness". At least, it isn't a major chronic illness.

 

From the symptoms you describe, it sounds very likely that your bf is going through nothing other than a burn out himself (lack of concentration, irritability). While he may not want to consult a doctor, he could still seek psychological counseling (most schools offer it on a discretionary and free basis to students). Definitely support him and suggest supplements and exercise.

[JustLooking123]

Um, what school costs $200k per year?

 

It sounds like this situation is being made more dramatic than necessary....

[Els]

I said of our currency, not of the actual currency in that country. Please read before making such comments.

 

Kamille: Thanks for the advice! I'll see what we can do about that...

[blind_otter]

See, the thing is, that he's mostly functional. No suicidal thoughts (although I suspect that's mainly because of how much his family is relying on him), his schoolwork only suffers to a small degree (although he's confided in me that it took him tremendous effort to keep it from doing so). He just gets really down and irrationally angry and sad for no reason sometimes, and stressors affect him more than they should. I agree that it may possibly not be clinical depression per se, but something closely related. Not really anything worth risking his whole future for.

 

I hate self diagnosing anything, but just from the knowledge I have of the various incarnations of the DSM over the years, this does not fit the criteria for major depressive disorder.

 

But there is a much higher risk of developing major depressive disorder in those who suffer from dysthymia or situational depression.

 

Also, it is important to note that some of the physical issues normally associated with depression can be related to poor diet, lack of exercise, and nutritional deficiencies that naturally tend to occur in people who are studying hard and are financially poor students.

 

Sometimes something as simple as a taking better care of yourself can help.

 

But this is all conjecture, because your BF "cannot" see a health professional to get an accurate diagnosis.

 

This makes no sense to me. Even as someone who is a first generation American on one side of my family, who is very familiar with the self sacrifice involved in getting an education that the entire family must undergo.

 

To be honest with you, I would probably not want to be treated by a doctor who refuses to treat himself. I mean that is a little weird, don't you think? When it comes to your life, money is nothing.

[LucreziaBorgia]

El, I'm not trying to be a downer, but I went back and looked at your thread titles and that one in February where he said 'he isn't as in love with you as he used to be' keeps coming back to me. Just the thread titles alone seem to be mapping a slow decline.

 

Just be careful with your heart - I don't see any one particular thing that keeps coming up as 'the reason', I just see a pattern of what appears to be him slowly backing out.

 

Go back and read your threads, and see if you see a pattern there - both with his behavior (backing away) and yours (trying to find reasons for his behavior that are anything but that).

 

Be careful. Take care with your heart. It never hurts to look back and really take inventory of your emotions and his, particularly when you are looking back after a period of time. You may find some things to talk about him with that hadn't come up til this point, red flags you may have missed.

[Spiritofnow]

I am a training to become a counselling psychologist, and though I am not an expert I do have some thoughts on this thread.

 

It seems logical to me that your BF's environment and family dynamics may well be attributed to his depressed feelings (expectation to succeed). Plus, from what I have read it seems that he is not giving himself any options to improve the situation (Unconscious block to his progress in dealing with his health). Not dealing with a situation is what causes the symptoms initially. He could simply reveal to his family how much pressure he feels he is under. I think that disclosure can be very cathartic, and although it won't actually treat his symptoms it will address some of the foundations that could be causing his health issues.

 

What I am hearing is that there is a lot of fear in terms of failing - he needs to try to see this from another perspective. How would his parents feel if he any harm came to him due to his perceptions concerning their expectations? They have not only sacrificed their lives for him to succeed, but because they love him and want the best for him - the best I would imagine does not equate to him becoming sick due to the sacrifices they choose to make in order to ensure his long-term happiness. His happiness I would hope would be their biggest motivation.

 

It seems like there is some cognitive distortion - he really needs some intervention even it were to see someone who he could talk to about how he is feeling. As he is working in medicine I assume there is some kind of supervision where he could disclose how he is feeling without fear of it being taken further.

 

This situation just needs to be perceived from another perspective.

[JustLooking123]

I said of our currency, not of the actual currency in that country. Please read before making such comments.

 

Kamille: Thanks for the advice! I'll see what we can do about that...

 

I did read. I read where you said that over a million dollars is being spent on his schooling. I still don't understand what you mean when you say "of our currency, not the actual currency." Please explain a bit more clearly.

[FreddieJones]

Well, I don't think that Govt. will send him back because of some mental illness. It may possible that someone don't have it when reached the destination country and after some time he suffer from illness, so what then? Host country will send him back destroying his future, putting him even in much depression and mental illness or they are going to treat him and let him continue his study and help him to overcome the illness?

 

what a bunch of policy makers, losers!!!!

[Els]

Guys, thanks for all your help; I'm currently very busy with finals and such, so I'm focusing on those first after having given him my advice. He does seem quite a bit better after having taken the weekend off (his team was scheduled to be on-call the ENTIRE weekend! And he'd been working 6 day weeks the past 2 weeks...) although now he's worried that his consultant will consider that irresponsible of him. :/ Will respond to the longer posts after finals are done.

 

Well, I don't think that Govt. will send him back because of some mental illness. It may possible that someone don't have it when reached the destination country and after some time he suffer from illness, so what then? Host country will send him back destroying his future, putting him even in much depression and mental illness or they are going to treat him and let him continue his study and help him to overcome the illness?

 

what a bunch of policy makers, losers!!!!

 

That's what I don't understand. The worst part is it actually happened to some people before. Uh, hello, if you do that to anyone who seeks help for depression, who the hell will report their depression?! (unless they can afford to pay for everything again, of course)

 

I did read. I read where you said that over a million dollars is being spent on his schooling. I still don't understand what you mean when you say "of our currency, not the actual currency." Please explain a bit more clearly.

 

He's studying abroad, and the place where he is studying has a currency value much higher than his native country (ours). His parents are working and earning in his native country.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Elswyth