Does it matter who initiates?

[crazycatlady]

Does it really matter who initiates if both partners say yes on a regular basis?

 

I know it matters if one partner says no all the time, because constant rejection can be very wearing on the heart. But if its always or almost always a yes, does it matter who reaches or asks first?

 

And speaking of initiating, how do you initiate and is it possible that your partner doesn't know that you are trying to start something?

 

We both tend to sleep with pillows between us. The great wall he calls them. As a silent "yo I'm interested" one of us moves the pillows when we get into bed. Other times I love to stroke over his body, he prefers to start kissing my neck. Every now and then during the day I'll look at him and say "Its so on tonight" or something to that affect. Or even if I'm not in the mood I'll let him know before hand that I'm not wanting it. He usually does the same. Its hot hearing he wants me in the middle of the day. But at the same time, its happened he will say he wants to do something and night will come and it not happen.

 

CCL

[mem11363]

IMO - It doesn't matter at all who initiates. If one person is always initiating it is fine as long as:

- The other person says yes a high percentage of the time

- The other person rejects tactfully when not in the mood. There is a WORLD of the difference between a terse "not happening" and a sympathetic - "sorry babe - tonight is just not going to work for me - can we connect on XXXX?"

 

I also think the initiator has to demonstrate some sense. There are plenty of nights I absolutely would not initiate because I can just tell wife is totally not up for a playful tumble.

 

We also frequently do the communication thing earlier in the day. Our version is simply the word tonight, spoken as a question. If one says "tonight?" the other typically just says "yes". Follow through is good on that - 9 out of 10 times that exchange turns into the real thing.

 

I do think a LOT of guys get hung up on who initiates and how much lust their wives feel. Wives don't directly control their lust levels - so being critical of them for not feeling lust is not constructive. Show me a wife who rocks her H's world when she isn't feeling lust - and I will show you a wife who REALLY loves her man.

 

 

 

Does it really matter who initiates if both partners say yes on a regular basis?

 

I know it matters if one partner says no all the time, because constant rejection can be very wearing on the heart. But if its always or almost always a yes, does it matter who reaches or asks first?

 

And speaking of initiating, how do you initiate and is it possible that your partner doesn't know that you are trying to start something?

 

We both tend to sleep with pillows between us. The great wall he calls them. As a silent "yo I'm interested" one of us moves the pillows when we get into bed. Other times I love to stroke over his body, he prefers to start kissing my neck. Every now and then during the day I'll look at him and say "Its so on tonight" or something to that affect. Or even if I'm not in the mood I'll let him know before hand that I'm not wanting it. He usually does the same. Its hot hearing he wants me in the middle of the day. But at the same time, its happened he will say he wants to do something and night will come and it not happen.

 

CCL

[NoIDidn't]

LOL. I thought I was the only one with a "Great Wall of Pillows" and the same signal. Hilarious.

 

I think it matters who initiates. But I was in a situation where I was initiating and getting rejected all the time. And this was before our kids even came along. I started to leave him over it. I don't know what changed or when it changed, but eventually he stopped saying "not right now" all the time.

 

I think both should take turns initiating as it gives a boost to the person being desired.

[linwood]

Yes it matters who initiates.

 

If the same person initiates every time regardless of their partners acceptance or not the initiating partner will begin to wonder why the other doesn`t seem to desire them enough to want them.

[Whateverelse]

It makes a difference to me; my wife is a classic low-libido mom, about which much is written on this forum. We would have sex once a year if I depended on her to initiate, which is how often she has done so since our second child was born. Its nothing like it was before kids, when it was probably 50/50. Its a way of saying a "I love you" that's more meaninful that just saying "I love you." As they say, actions speak louder than words.

[carhill]

Perception is relevant as well, IMO. If I didn't initiate at a rate which matched stbx's perception (whatever that was at the moment), I 'never wanted to have sex' (precise verbiage utilized). It mattered not what the actual time increment was, perception, singular perception, ruled the day. That dynamic, not only relevant to sex, is one of the largest reliefs I've experienced since separating and divorcing. Living in that environment was like a f*cking prison. Never again. Bye-bye

 

Topically, in a marriage, I feel sexual expressions of intimacy should be fluid and mutual, with no running ledger. It's a safe space to be open and vulnerable. I didn't keep track in my decade long marriage and never will. IMO, it's counterproductive to true intimacy and, for myself, sex is an expression of that intimacy, not a recordable act.

[Married_and_Lonely]

Like most things, it depends and there's no simple answer...

 

I'd say if you're a shy one in bed that doesn't get real animated, initiating occasionally might be the only way your partner can tell that you're enjoying it and desire him.

 

But if once he initiates it's obvious that you're having a good time and into the moment, then it problably doesn't matter who initiates.

 

As everyone knows, we guys are highly visual specimens. So I'd say you occasionally surprising him by walking in the bedroom with sexy lingerie on or the such would probably fire him up big time and fan the romantic flames. Of course, I'm not talking from experience but it is what I want as a male.

[xxoo]

If both partners are enthusiastic about sex, then no, I don't think it matters who initiates. In our M, when we have sex is fairly predictable--no initiation by either party is necessary. Because of jobs and kids, there are days of the week it almost always happens, and days it almost never happens....

 

. Its a way of saying a "I love you" that's more meaninful that just saying "I love you." As they say, actions speak louder than words.

 

It is one important way to say "I love you" with action, and it sounds like it is the way you most want to hear it. But there are other meaningful ways to say "I love you" with actions. Does your wife feel she is showing you her love through actions? Do you recognize it when she does?

[Whateverelse]

So I'd say you occasionally surprising him by walking in the bedroom with sexy lingerie on or the such would probably fire him up big time and fan the romantic flames. Of course, I'm not talking from experience but it is what I want as a male.

 

We must have the same wife; this would be nice, but I can't speak from experience about this either. She has sexy lingerie, but its sat in the closet unused since they day it was bot.

 

From what I read, we probably do it about average for people of our age and length of marriage. About half the time she gets into and its fun; the other half is what other posters call duty sex, and about all I can say about duty sex is that it beats the alternative, but when its really obvious it does hurt my feelings. I just don't tell her. The one time each year she initiates, it is really, really great b/c she is really, really into it. Unfortunately, I cant afford to drop a few grand every Friday on expensive jewelry.

 

But there are other meaningful ways to say "I love you" with actions. Does your wife feel she is showing you her love through actions? Do you recognize it when she does?

 

She would say that she does plenty of things to say she loves me, like occassionally picking up my shirts at the laundry, or cooking special stuff for dinner that I like.

[Jeff1962]

For me who initiates does matter, call it ego if you will. To know that you are on someones mind enough for them to initiate sex is a real ego booster and a turn on. It goes both ways.

[crazycatlady]

Interesting answers. For men, its obvious it matters, for women, its not as much of a deal, that definately could cause a problem.

 

It makes me wonder if some couples get into a habit where the male initiated so often that when he doesn't, the female might think maybe tonight he's not wanting it. And it just slides into a bad place from there. I could easily see that happening, where the usual initiator doesn't to test the desire of the other partner and it ends up the other partner who is use to the other person starting it figures that the usual initiator isn't interested right now.

 

Routine is a huge danger in a relationship, taking it for granted that the one person always starts things is a huge danger, but so many women I know that's the case, they never start it even if they want it.

 

Because I would have been in the it doesn't matter as long as both parties are into it...but now reading the men's answers, I guess it does matter. This has not been a problem here, I start just as often as he does, and I'm very vocal about my desire for him and he for me. But I could see it being a very easy trap to fall into.

 

CCL

[Whateverelse]

CCL,

 

I don't know how old you are, but my wife could have written the same post 20 years ago. After many years of marriage and two kids in early teens, our relationship has changed, which I accept is normal.

 

From a male's perspective, I believe Jeff and Linwood are right. I think the female answers are rationalizations they have created in their minds to justify why they don't initiate, which their hubby's in all likelihood would not agree with, or are written by people, like yourself, who admittedly dont have the perspective of being in that kind of relationship.

 

Never initiating is, in my mind, a lesser variant of the spouse who constantly rejects the other's romantic advances. I would admit its not nearly as hurtful, but any kind of rejection in the romantic sphere of life is going to raise doubts in the back of your mind about whether your spouse really loves you when all they do is mouth the words.

 

If my being the sole initiator had been an aspect of our relationship from the beginning, I don't think I would attach as much importance to it, and I would not interpret her failure to initiate now as a rejection of me. But that is not the case. I have fond memories of the days before our second child when our libidos were about equal. So, I can blame biochemical/hormonal changes in my wife for the change, or instead interpret it as her not loving me quite as much anymore, despite what she says. People can and do say things all the time that they don't mean, and that is why a person's actions have greater meaning for me.

 

Honestly, if you want to say "I love you" to your husband on his birthday, the worst thing you can do is think you have done so by buying a 5 dollar sappy Hallmark card (of which I have a drawer full!) with words that you didn't even write.

[xxoo]

Here's the problem with attaching too much importance to initiating, in the case of mismatched sex drives:

 

If one partner has a higher libido than the other, the high libido partner is usually going to approach for sex regularly, and will continue doing so if the lower libido partner regularly responds positively. For argument, let's assume the high libido partner is the man, and the lower (not low, but lower) is the woman. He's thinking about sex all the time and initiates; she is not thinking about sex all the time but is happy to give it a shot when he initiates--and usually has a great time. Sounds great, right?

 

If initiating is important, then, no, this is not enough. To be enough, she must initiate before him sometimes. But she's not thinking about sex all the time, and he is, and she is getting ALL her sex needs taken care of (and then some, maybe) with his initiations, so she never gets to the point of "it's been a while....I think we should get it on."

 

Now, if you explain to your partner that you want them to initiate because it makes you feel wanted and loved, they may step up and do so because you've expressed the need. But it ma be because you expressed a need for them to initiate, not because they honestly have that feeling of "gosh, I'd really like to get it on right now." And so, what is the point, really?

 

I sometimes think everyone (men and women) have to realize when good enough is good enough. If you are having great sex regularly, that is the holy grail. If her (or his) enthusiastic participation isn't enough reassurance that you are loved and desired, why not? I could (and do) flip this argument on women all the time with "needs" that women claim (men not saying/doing exactly the right things to make them feel loved, when their man is CLEARLY acting in loving ways all over the place). Sometimes it really is a matter of shifting perspective, and choosing happy.

 

FTR--this isn't a personal issue in our home. Not posting defensively

[Married_and_Lonely]

Honestly, if you want to say "I love you" to your husband on his birthday, the worst thing you can do is think you have done so by buying a 5 dollar sappy Hallmark card (of which I have a drawer full!) with words that you didn't even write.

 

Whateverelse,

 

Sounds like you have some anger and resentment held in.. try talking to your wife about your feelings before it eats you up even more.. i don't always practice what I preach, but I still believe in the message.

[Luv2dance]

If initiating is important, then, no, this is not enough. To be enough, she must initiate before him sometimes. But she's not thinking about sex all the time, and he is, and she is getting ALL her sex needs taken care of (and then some, maybe) with his initiations, so she never gets to the point of "it's been a while....I think we should get it on."

 

Interesting...I am beginning to think that it matters to the person with the higher sex drive. It definitely makes me THINK he is not interested if he never initiates, but maybe the fact that he is getting plenty is a good point. It has always been fairly predictible here though so most of the time it isn't a true initiation but just a get in bed and get it done thing. So, for me maybe I would just like a little spontaneous action that I didn't initiate to feel a little more loved??

[xxoo]

Honestly, if you want to say "I love you" to your husband on his birthday, the worst thing you can do is think you have done so by buying a 5 dollar sappy Hallmark card (of which I have a drawer full!) with words that you didn't even write.

 

Sadly, and ironically, there is a subset of wives waiting for their H's to buy them a 5 dollar sappy Hallmark card to "really" show their love for them. Ha!

 

I hate those cards--giving and receiving--but I can give you some insight into how women choose those cards. They'll read everysinglecard until they find one that truthfully expresses their feelings. Doesn't mean you have to like them, lol, but at least understand that the message is her truth.

[Whateverelse]

I can see where xxoo's theory probably does have some validity, from the standpoint of the one who does not initiate. It still doesn't change the perception in my mind that she isn't attracted to me anymore. "Never" is a lot different than "less often." Particularly when it wasn't always like that.

 

We actually have what I consider a great marriage, but I think even in great marraiges there are things one spouse does that annoys another spouse, and the birthday card issue is one thing that gets my goat. Paying some conglomerate 5 dollars to write some words that you can't find the time to write yourself is just not a genuine way to tell someone you love them, imo. But its one day a year; it would be a bigger deal if I had a birthday every month.

[Married_and_Lonely]

Paying some conglomerate 5 dollars to write some words that you can't find the time to write yourself is just not a genuine way to tell someone you love them, imo. But its one day a year; it would be a bigger deal if I had a birthday every month.

 

I bet communicating how you feel would stop you from getting these cards you despise in the future and make for better birthdays. It took my wife 7 years to tell me she didn't like flowers. I was slow to comprehend because I thought all women love flowers and appreciate the thought, but apparently my wife just thought it was wasted money. So guess what, no more flowers... now I try to give her things I know she appreciates more, like a gift card to her favorite makeup store, or spa certificates, etc. (although I wished she liked flowers because I think it's more romantic to come home with roses than a gift card, but that's just me I guess).

 

P.S. Sorry for getting off track of OP question.. back to the main road

Edited April 2, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

[Luv2dance]

Sadly, and ironically, there is a subset of wives waiting for their H's to buy them a 5 dollar sappy Hallmark card to "really" show their love for them. Ha!

 

This is so true!! I have said for YEARS why is it so hard to remembr to buy a card? I guess it really goes back to the love language for each of us is different!!

 

Maybe initiating sex is much the same...are some people just wired to be the aggressor and some the passive??

[Jeff1962]

This is so true!! I have said for YEARS why is it so hard to remembr to buy a card? I guess it really goes back to the love language for each of us is different!!

 

Maybe initiating sex is much the same...are some people just wired to be the aggressor and some the passive??

 

Sadly, there are the men who bare their hearts to their wives only to be ignored. I guess this is why we have Hallmark, so that men don't get hurt and if they forget it's their fault anyway.

[spriggig]

So, for me maybe I would just like a little spontaneous action that I didn't initiate to feel a little more loved??

 

I read that this is very important. For sex to at least seem spontaneous because spontaneous acts, be they initiation of sex or otherwise, are viewed by women to mean that there is more love involved.

[Luv2dance]

Sadly, there are the men who bare their hearts to their wives only to be ignored. I guess this is why we have Hallmark, so that men don't get hurt and if they forget it's their fault anyway.

 

Wouldn't it be easier if there were just two lines (emotional & likes sex vs. non emotional & no sex) and we could pick our partner from the corrct line...of course I'm so indecisive I'm sure I'd pick the wrong line anyway.

 

I read that this is very important. For sex to at least seem spontaneous because spontaneous acts, be they initiation of sex or otherwise, are viewed by women to mean that there is more love involved.

 

Yep...it does go with most things. Like bringing the $5 bouquet of flowers from the grocery store on a random Wed. is better than the $50 Valentine roses. We women are complicated!!

[spriggig]

Yep...it does go with most things. Like bringing the $5 bouquet of flowers from the grocery store on a random Wed. is better than the $50 Valentine roses. We women are complicated!!

 

So, this means I'm off the hook for buying the $50 roses if I surprise her with a $5 rose the week before?

 

No?

[crazycatlady]

I love conversations like this as we slowly veer off topic to other areas.

 

But I think its important for both sides to see things from the other side, and sometimes its easier to hear it from someone not the spouse, where you might get defensive.

 

@Whateverelse - I'm in my mid 30s, my second child is 7. So We did hit that lull after he was born, thankfully it didn't last long, and I discovered that part of the secret to having more lust, is to really think about sex more often. To the point of if I'm having problems not feeling it, I will conciously think about it, talk about it, send sexy text to my H which leads him to do the same, and that usually helps get things on to the right track.

 

Oh and count me into the group that would rather have the 5$ grocery store then the expensive roses. Even on special occassions. I've told him this and I see get roses. I would rather get daisies, or a live plant. I love cards too, but my favorite has always been the one he made up for me that came with my quilt while he was deployed.

 

CCL

[Luv2dance]

So, this means I'm off the hook for buying the $50 roses if I surprise her with a $5 rose the week before?

 

No?

 

Well, for me it would get you off the hook, but I am apparently not a normal woman. Of course, I don't get the $5 or $50 flowers until he's scared he's losing me.

 

I love conversations like this as we slowly veer off topic to other areas.

 

Sorry CCL...it seems strange for a thread to veer from the topic of sex.