seren Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 (edited) I wrote As an aside to Just Joe, my H is military, 26 years military and I have seen him cry like a baby following his disclosure of the A, not for a once would I think him 'unmanly'. In fact it takes a very brave man (or woman) to admit his failings and allow himself to be seen as vulnerable. I am from a military family too, both parents, it is the ability to feel compassion for others that is the mark of a good person IMO, I have seen countless military hard men cry like babies and they just seemed far more heroic than those macho men you see around camp. You think this is tying you to a stake and bashing you? It was an observation following your comment that the MM was unmanly because he was devastated following him having the evidence of his wife's affair. I have been through a D day, I can tell you that I am one of the strongest most assertive people I know, yet I am not ashamed to say that I just couldn't function for almost a month after D day, stressed, off work, crying, lost a stone in weight etc etc. yes, I too am ex military and from a military family, but that didn't alter my reaction to it all. Feelings are feelings. It was your mentioning this as a reason for you not to feel compassion. You really couldn't get a more manly, man (whatever that means) than my H, and yes 26 years military full timer, yet he cries at the thought of hurting me. I don't see that as weak. Everyone deals with grief in a different way, I had been the person who said it's about time they got over their WS affairs when friends had found out it had happened to them, but when it happened to me reality sure took a chunk out of my backside. I didn't know, had no idea it could hurt so dammed much. perhaps he just loves her so very much he cannot imagine life without her, perhaps their life isn't really all that bad when they are together. Who knows. My point was about compassion, and about the fact that some people cry and go to pieces, some go out and get laid. We are all different and just don't know how we will react until our world is blown apart. Edited April 2, 2010 by seren Typo
JustJoe Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Thank you Seren, I guess that we don't have to agree, but I respect your position. My point is that the H will cry and moan, but will do nothing to change and be a better man and husband. He will buy her back with expensive gifts and then ignore her. I know that she goes along with it, but it hurts me to see her living like a "kept", woman. But if that's the way she wants it, I can do nothing to change her. I guess I'm also really frustrated, because she still wants us to get back together. How can somebody so beautiful and loving, be this way?
bentnotbroken Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Thank you Seren, I guess that we don't have to agree, but I respect your position. My point is that the H will cry and moan, but will do nothing to change and be a better man and husband. He will buy her back with expensive gifts and then ignore her. I know that she goes along with it, but it hurts me to see her living like a "kept", woman. But if that's the way she wants it, I can do nothing to change her. I guess I'm also really frustrated, because she still wants us to get back together. How can somebody so beautiful and loving, be this way? These two statements says where you attitude from the H comes from. You cannot know whether he ignores her or she pushes him away to keep her money and her piece on the side. You only see the dynamic she wanted you to see. You have no idea the conversations that have occurred between the two of them in private. You know what you are told. How do you know she doesn't deny him on several levels of their relationship and then turns it around to make it appear he is the one doing the ignoring? You don't. We teach people what we are willing to accept and just as you say he is weak for taking her back and buying her things. I see a prostitute who is doing it legally. She is using him to attain the things she is too weak, too lazy or too stupid to get on her own. Her self respect and dignity are tied up in the material things he provides. And she willing stays for those things. If love is what she were really seeking, would she be with him....I highly doubt it. Would she be with you....I highly doubt it. You said you don't have the means to provide for her what she is unwilling to provide for herself. She isn't living like a kept woman, she is a kept woman. And I suspect your frustration is more about you not being able to calm the conflicting pictures you have. The one she told you about and your believed and the one that you see. Her actions speak louder than words, you should trust what you see.
Spark1111 Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 These two statements says where you attitude from the H comes from. You cannot know whether he ignores her or she pushes him away to keep her money and her piece on the side. You only see the dynamic she wanted you to see. You have no idea the conversations that have occurred between the two of them in private. You know what you are told. How do you know she doesn't deny him on several levels of their relationship and then turns it around to make it appear he is the one doing the ignoring? You don't. I agree completely with this! My fWS told his OW I did not love him; I stayed for the money and status; that we rarely had sex (ha!). Meanwhile, he HAD been systematically pushing me away; cold, distant, angry and nothing I could do or say was good enough. Just Joe, Bent is right: You only know what you have been told from the perception of a very unhappy and somewhat confused person. We teach people what we are willing to accept and just as you say he is weak for taking her back and buying her things. I see a prostitute who is doing it legally. She is using him to attain the things she is too weak, too lazy or too stupid to get on her own. Her self respect and dignity are tied up in the material things he provides. And she willing stays for those things. If love is what she were really seeking, would she be with him....I highly doubt it. Would she be with you....I highly doubt it. You said you don't have the means to provide for her what she is unwilling to provide for herself. She isn't living like a kept woman, she is a kept woman. And I suspect your frustration is more about you not being able to calm the conflicting pictures you have. The one she told you about and your believed and the one that you see. Her actions speak louder than words, you should trust what you see. Love is a verb! An action! Not words to keep the drama alive, the pillow talk flowing, the woe-is-me victimized attitude. You fell in love with a female cake-eater! She "plays" to your Knight in Shining Armor weakness. Trust what you see! Again, great advice. If she was truly as miserable as she portrays herself to be to you, why is she still there?
JustJoe Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 BNB and Spark. I'm aware that I only have her viewpoint, but since I've talked with her H, he has pretty much re-inforced what she said. All I really know, is how she treats me. Except for that one time already described, , she has always been loving, extremely passionate, witty, and intelligent. How she and H act around each other, I don't know. But it's no longer an issue, the affair's over and I am NC with her, for now. But when she calls......and cries....and begs....and tells me I'm the only man she loves........it's so hard.
Dexter Morgan Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Thank you Seren, I guess that we don't have to agree, but I respect your position. My point is that the H will cry and moan, but will do nothing to change and be a better man and husband. you are assuming that he doesn't care for her. all you hear is what she fed you. it is quite possible, very possible, that she wasn't a good wife and may not be exactly suited for married life. sure, everything was roses, great sex, and lovey dovey with you. but she doesn't have to go through the daily trials of life with you. if she were your wife, the newness would wear off, and when you are deployed, you don't think she wouldn't be out there playing while the cat is away? some people get bored with married life, no matter how good they have it. the husband's "crying and moaning", as you put it, may just show that he cares more than you may think. marriage is not for the weak, the selfish, or the insecure. And only those people that can truly forsake all others, need not ever get married. He will buy her back with expensive gifts and then ignore her. I know that she goes along with it, but it hurts me to see her living like a "kept", woman. But if that's the way she wants it, I can do nothing to change her. I guess I'm also really frustrated, because she still wants us to get back together. How can somebody so beautiful and loving, be this way?
Dexter Morgan Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Love this Dex. It's amazing to me how many people get married BECAUSE they are weak, selfish or insecure. That phrase is from one of my favorite old movies, To Sir, With Love
White Flower Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 How many of you would tell the BS about the A after it was over? I'm just curious. I would only tell if she came and asked me and convinced me that she needed to know. Even then, I might not tell her everything. After all, she got him; what do I get out of it?
JustJoe Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 DM, I agree with what you say for the most part, but every time I've talked with him since, he is either about to buy her some new "toy", or has just bought her something else. So what am I supposed to believe? What she tells me or what he tells me? Was she using me? I guess so. Is she a bad wife?, YES. Is he a bad husband?, yes again. Do I wish that I had never gotten involved with either one of them?? A resounding YES.
tnttim Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 justjoe you are going through the, want but you can't have cycle. You want what you used to have and that my room is always full of people. That's the one thing the 3 of you share in common. She wants her husbands money and your way of life. The H wants his old trusting W back. You want excitement and thrill of being better than the million dollar H. You need to get out and find a new women, your wiping a dead horse here, and the strange thing is you know it. If you use the attitude you used to have you will have no problem attracting a new, better, unmarried female, there are literally billions out there!!!!!
tnttim Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 How many of you would tell the BS about the A after it was over? I'm just curious. long term goal in mind, I say take it to the grave and let god sort it out for you..............
Dexter Morgan Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 DM, I agree with what you say for the most part, but every time I've talked with him since, he is either about to buy her some new "toy", or has just bought her something else. So what am I supposed to believe? not a cheating woman, that is for sure. What she tells me or what he tells me? Was she using me? I guess so. Is she a bad wife?, YES. she is a bad wife for sure by default since she is a cheater. Is he a bad husband?, yes again. that remains to be seen. All you know about him is what SHE tells you, which will be whatever supports and excuses her cheating, and his "less than a man" demeanor, as you would put it, when he is confronted with something this painful. And if he buys her something, that just makes him a fool. doesn't make him a bad husband. He is devestated, not thinking clearly, and probably doesn't know of any other way to deal with it. being betrayed doesn't exactly put one in their right mind. Some people come around and open their eyes, others don't.
sally4sara Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 Seeing as I've never been in an affair and never will be, me outing someone would not be motivated by a want for vengeance. If my mate were to cheat, I'd want to be informed. I don't care by who or what their reasons would be. At least someone would be cluing me in to the risks being posed against my relationship and personal health.
Spark1111 Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 Seeing as I've never been in an affair and never will be, me outing someone would not be motivated by a want for vengeance. If my mate were to cheat, I'd want to be informed. I don't care by who or what their reasons would be. At least someone would be cluing me in to the risks being posed against my relationship and personal health. I agree. it just seems like the decent thing to do. Wish somebody had clued me in.
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