The so-called promiscuity "double standard"

[sagetalk]

 

1. If you guys think having sex with a lot of girls by virtue of itself is going to get you more girls, then try it out. have sex with any girl who you can get and see where it gets you.

 

2. Every woman I know is attracted to good qualities in a man - confidence, ambition, humor, being a good person, talent, success. That is attractive. Guys who have these qualities are the ones women go after. No woman unless she has bad self esteem is going to go for a guy who has nothing more going for him than hundreds of notches on a whittled down bedpost.

 

3. This virgin vs promiscuous comparison is a ridiculous one. There is such a thing as a middle ground, and that to me is attractive.

 

4. From what I've seen, having sex with a lot of women is more a male barometer of masculinity than it is a female one.

 

5. Also, if a guy is a true player, most of the girls he is playing or has played had no idea what they were in for.

 

this thread is nothing more than all around sadness.

 

1. If the girls are hot, then you will be the next big thing, they will line up and beg. All guys know this, I assume you are a woman.

 

2. What people say they do and what they actually do are not always the same thing. This is an excellent example of it.

 

3. It's used as an extreme contrast to show which is more favorable. Those closer to a virgin or those closer to the player. The argument is that the closer a male is to a player and the further away he is from the virgin, the more romantically popular the male will be with women. That's about as basic knowledge of dating you're ever going to get. That's not even dating 101, that's dating 080. There are girls that like guys that are less experienced, they are just a small minority so most guys don't care.

 

4. 100% false. Having sex with a large number of women gives a male experience and teaches him how to seduce women into sleeping with him. Males who are closer to virgins do not have this skill and have to go through all the walls women put up for protection. Players learn how to skip all these complicates steps and just rip their clothes off. Even if it disgraces the women, and devalues her to nothing more than meat, they could care less. And boy does it work and work often. Many times the girls even remember them fondly.

 

5. Maybe that is true, but it does not change the fact that he was a player and the girl liked it. For a player, it's all about learning to deceive, manipulate, confuse, and disorient, a girl so that she becomes easy to have sex with. Even though to unskilled guys she's sexually unattainable until marriage or a serious relationship, the player uses his experience to bypass everything.

 

When women stop letting them bypass all the steps inexperienced guys have to take, then I will believe they don't like them.

[carhill]

For a player, it's all about learning to deceive, manipulate, confuse, and disorient, a girl so that she becomes easy to have sex with.

 

Yeah, I watched one at a concert working on stbx and two of her married girlfriends, right in front of his wife. There was no doubt. IMO, those guys don't deserve to breathe the same air as decent, good men. One will catch me at the wrong moment and it will be the end of him. Almost was that night.

[Engadget]

I've done the exact opposite of being a man-whore. Two single girls that are friends and I told them straight out I'm not getting involved with anyone, on any level. Now they probably think I'm gay, but I don't really care. After a long relationship I'm all set with being alone (despite being incredibly lonely) for a while.

[Woggle]

Yeah, I watched one at a concert working on stbx and two of her married girlfriends, right in front of his wife. There was no doubt. IMO, those guys don't deserve to breathe the same air as decent, good men. One will catch me at the wrong moment and it will be the end of him. Almost was that night.

 

Why blame them instead of blaming women who go nuts over these guys?

[sagetalk]

Why blame them instead of blaming women who go nuts over these guys?

 

To me the blame is 50/50. If women blew these guys off, the guys would change their behavior, of that I'm 100% sure. All these guys care about is sex, they don't care how they get it.

 

If going to church gets them sex, then they go to church. If kicking an old lady leads to sex, then they kick an old lady. They do what gets them into a girls pants, whether it be noble, ignoble, classy, classless, or heroic, it has no relevance to them. I am constantly amazed at how few women actually understand this about most "experienced" males.

[Woggle]

To me the blame is 50/50. If women blew these guys off, the guys would change their behavior, of that I'm 100% sure. All these guys care about is sex, they don't care how they get it.

 

If going to church gets them sex, then they go to church. If kicking an old lady leads to sex, then they kick an old lady. They do what gets them into a girls pants, whether it be noble, ignoble, classy, classless, or heroic, it has no relevance to them. I am constantly amazed at how few women actually understand this about most "experienced" males.

 

This is just men doing what works. If you want action from women this is what you have to do.

[carhill]

Wog's, I don't see it as 'nuts', rather as being hypnotized and becoming suggestible. It's really no different than the hot woman hypnotizing the man with her sexuality and using that tool, as the players use their tools, to subvert and manipulate.

 

The person using the tools to do harm is the person I go after, regardless of the relative health of the target. They carry the blame in my mind, and that's all I care about. Do harm and pay the price.

[hats]

Social status via relationships is important to women. Women don't really realize how much less important it is to men because they can't imagine it not being important. It's not that women are attracted to promiscuity per se, it's more that they are attracted to popularity. For men, popularity makes less of an impact on his attraction towards a woman.

 

I'd guess a popular man with a low number would actually be preferable to a popular man with a high number. The exception being a virgin, just because it's so universally considered a red flag (depending on how old you are).

 

The double standard against promiscuous women makes sense because women aren't looking for sex first and foremost, while men are. Someone said that sleeping with many women isn't a conquest because it's just women doing what they already wanted to do. But women consistently deny what they already want to do because they don't want to enter a casual sex relationship. They want to do it the "right" way, so that they can be in a "real" relationship, one that offers commitment, security, emotional support, etc. If a man isn't offering these things and he's still sleeping with a woman then most likely he's either very attractive or very persuasive.

 

This also explains why other women are often the bigger contributors to the double standard. I think a lot of women are threatened by easy women (and men) because while the "good girls" are trying to hold out for a "good" relationship, these women are generally getting more attention.

[MrNate]

Imagine how much more action the average man would get if we didn't have this double standard. It wouldn't surprise me, if the fact that the reason why men don't get as much sex as they want is due to this double standard, which I think it is. If it were gone, there would be a lot less sexually frustrated guys, guaranteed. All we have to do is view women as ordinary people, and understand that they aren't driven by the same thought processes as men. Heck, this would make things better all around, no?

[AD1980]

Social status via relationships is important to women. Women don't really realize how much less important it is to men because they can't imagine it not being important. It's not that women are attracted to promiscuity per se, it's more that they are attracted to popularity. For men, popularity makes less of an impact on his attraction towards a woman.

 

 

I wonder why social status and popularity is so important to women and not Men..But you can tell it turns them on..

[sally4sara]

. But women consistently deny what they already want to do because they don't want to enter a casual sex relationship. They want to do it the "right" way, so that they can be in a "real" relationship, one that offers commitment, security, emotional support, etc. If a man isn't offering these things and he's still sleeping with a woman then most likely he's either very attractive or very persuasive.

 

This also explains why other women are often the bigger contributors to the double standard. I think a lot of women are threatened by easy women (and men) because while the "good girls" are trying to hold out for a "good" relationship, these women are generally getting more attention.

 

Casual sex relationships happen all the time. And, speaking for myself here, they've had their time and place for me. While I am now in a committed relationship, I didn't always want one and actively did avoid one for a period in my life. To say women simply don't want this is a huge generalization. And for some folks who subscribe to the double standard, it is the excuse used for their own avoidance of commitment. I read it often on here and throughout this thread - the concept that a woman can't be trusted to have a committed relationship if she has enjoyed casual sex. It is to say you don't believe a woman should be able to judge for herself what she wants at different points in her life. It threatens some men. I suspect these men to be the ones who really struggle to keep their own end of the bargain in a committed relationship. This being a struggle they never bother to address while single even though it would benefit them to do so. It is about self reflection. There seems to be quite a few men in this thread who really lack the benefit self reflection while reflecting in a non productive way on the actions of women - and most often when the woman who enjoys sex DOESN'T want it with them.

 

Woman who snipe at other women about their sexapades don't rely on first hand knowledge. It is an often baseless insult to incite a conflict. The woman they insult needn't even BE promiscuous to be on the receiving end. I can't even remember all the times I was called a slut before I even lost my virginity. They just wanted to hurt my feelings and jumped to the cheapest shot society admonishes women with - sexual conduct.

 

The only sense in women being less sexually driven than they could be is over the amount of resources they have to give to any children that come of it. Unfortunately, while this ABSOLUTELY SHOULD apply to men too, it often doesn't. Long ago, a man having many children was a recognition of wealth in that they had enough to support so many. Too many boys wanting to appear to be big men with out the mustard to back it up or the willingness to even try. We push our boys at the vagina without teaching him what responsibility it can bring. And then we wonder why so many seem hateful about it......

 

Social status absolutely matters to men - they just want it without the work that comes with it.

Edited April 1, 2010 by sally4sara

[Stbe]

If men want women to be more promiscuous, they should reward that behavior. Problem is there are a lot of dads out there who are protective of their daughters, so the vast majority of women plus men with families are all against promiscuity for women.

 

It's only the single men who are in favor of it, so it's difficult to find and probably always will be.

 

Sad, really.

[carhill]

If men want women to be more promiscuous, they should reward that behavior. Problem is there are a lot of dads out there who are protective of their daughters, so the vast majority of women plus men with families are all against promiscuity for women.

 

That's an interesting perspective. Having seen the 'other' side of it (outlier), I often wonder if the guys so aggressively guarding their daughter's virginity and 'innocence' were the same ones plucking it as teenagers themselves. I wonder what their advice is to their sons? They know the enemy and it is themselves?

 

I probably would've garnered more social proof having a father who proffered and encouraged the '4F' philosophy versus the 'respect women' philosophy. Outlier.

[sally4sara]

bull

social status is important to woman and your statment is typical from women who dont want to admit this

 

You would really need to know me to know if I value social status. I assure you it is not my game.

 

If men don't like social status, explain the cars the electronic wares, even bothering to groom yourself or seek admirable jobs. Explain caring what others would think if they dated a "loose woman".

 

I didn't say social status ISN'T important to women, I said that is isn't JUST important to women. Aaaanndddd, I wasn't talking to you, but to someone who said it isn't so important to men.

[AD1980]

You would really need to know me to know if I value social status. I assure you it is not my game.

 

If men don't like social status, explain the cars the electronic wares, even bothering to groom yourself or seek admirable jobs. Explain caring what others would think if they dated a "loose woman".

 

I didn't say social status ISN'T important to women, I said that is isn't JUST important to women. Aaaanndddd, I wasn't talking to you, but to someone who said it isn't so important to men.

 

WHy do women look for it in a mate and not Men?

 

Maybe Men wouldnt care about it as much if women didnt value it so much

[A O]

Casual sex relationships happen all the time. To say women simply don't want this is a huge generalization.

Nonetheless, very, very true.. Women want committed relationships far more than they want casual sex relationships or ONS's.

 

I read it often on here and throughout this thread - the concept that a woman can't be trusted to have a committed relationship if she has enjoyed casual sex.

Can understand the 'lack of trust' perception but don't agree with it myself.

 

It is to say you don't believe a woman should be able to judge for herself what she wants at different points in her life.

Hey, you're free to do as you choose, but you'll be judged on your choices just as men are judged on theirs.

 

Woman who snipe at other women about their sexapades don't rely on first hand knowledge.

The motives for these women are exactly the same as the motives you expressed towards men. Its the fear of missing out or having to do things outside of their comfort zone in order to garner attention.

 

We push our boys at the vagina without teaching him what responsibility it can bring. And then we wonder why so many seem hateful about it......

Same goes for the girls, if not moreso.

 

Social status absolutely matters to men - they just want it without the work that comes with it.

Apart from those born to privileged, social status is the by-product of the choices and work people undertake.

 

.

If men want women to be more promiscuous, they should reward that behavior.

Well, I suppose we all could shell out a few (extra) dollars but then we all know what that'll make em! Otherwise, women could regulate their behavior a little less (their behavior being a combination of their own and anyone around them) but then they run the risk of either not attracting the best prospect possible or watching him slip away to someone else.

 

 

.

[Woggle]

Both men and women care about social status...but in very different ways. Women care about both, their own social status and their man's social status (in fact, for women, the latter is an extension of the former). Men only care about their ownsocial status.

 

Very true and there is actually a trend amongst some men of being proud to be an outsider and not by into cultural trends. That is how I think. I couldn't give two damns about status.

[Mutant Debutante]

men dont care about it

women will say men care to justify them caring so much

 

This is ridiculous. This whole thread is rooted in old stereotypes about men being the hunters and into dominance and blah blah blah and now you're trying to say that men don't care about status and have zero ambition. Can't have it both ways. Human beings are hierarchical, men and women.

 

Women spent hundreds, thousands of years only being able to achieve high places in the hierarchy through their fathers and husbands. This left a big mark on how society works that hasn't gone away yet.

 

Men care about how people see them, too, and their place in the hierarchy. Obviously you care about how women see you...you just don't like how they see you.

[Mutant Debutante]

Very true and there is actually a trend amongst some men of being proud to be an outsider and not by into cultural trends. That is how I think. I couldn't give two damns about status.

 

There are women like this too. Maybe not in Jersey.

 

 

 

As for men not caring what others think about their women, I know a lot of men who care very much about what their friends think about how their girlfriends look. Maybe they just don't care about her job as much. I don't think it's a difference to be hugely proud of.

[Woggle]

I do somewhat care how women see me but to be honest I am starting to enjoy being hated. I have come to respect open misandrists who come right out and say what they feel about men instead of women who are nice to my face because I feel it is more honest. I like to know where I stand and I wish more women would tell me how they really feel.

[Mutant Debutante]

Women like guys who are attractive, whether that's looks, charm, charisma, humor, power, whatever. Men who are attractive attract more than just one woman, yeah. So what? Attractive women get flocks of men around them, too.

 

If zero women like you, it's not the fault of women en masse and it's not because they haven't seen you hanging out with other girls or heard about you sleeping with other girls. If not one woman has ever liked you, you are probably socially awkward and women think you are creepy. Or maybe you are only looking up at the hot women who will never look back at you instead of keeping your gaze level and checking out the plain girls and the fat girls all around you who'd be willing to give you a chance, I see that happen all the time.

 

Bottom line is you reek of bitterness, but women don't owe you love or sex. If you want love or sex, figure out how to make yourself more attractive or lovable. You can also save up your money for massage parlors.

 

And I've just skimmed this thread but I've seen plenty of guys say that yeah they care who the girl has slept with.

[Undine]

I have known many genuinely nice men who respected women, and none of them were still virgins in their thirties unless it was a religious thing for them. I had relationships with some of them, they were kind, thoughtful and honest but not simpering or weak. I wonder a little bit about your definition of nice.

[Undine]

nice

 

 

pay for dates

show up on time

be honest

listen to them

respect them

hold doors open

never raise my voice

buy them thoughtful gifts

remember their birthday

remember valentines day

and on and on

 

My husband has always done all those things and he lost his virginity at sixteen, had several meaningful sexual and romantic relationships in his past and is now married to a woman he loves, namely myself. I had several boyfriends before I met my husband, and they were all respectful and 'nice' according to your description--I would never lower myself to dating a man who didn't respect me, who didn't show me affection and thoughtfulness, nor would the women I am around socially, who all have nice husbands. I'm afraid I can't agree that your nice behavior is the key element to your particular problem. I would venture that you are either seeking a particular type of woman ('type' is not exclusive to physical type) who does not mesh well with you, or exuding some kind of social awkwardness, perhaps anxiety or desperation.

 

I do agree however that it might not be wise to go around telling women that you are a virgin at this stage in the game. If I were dating an almost-forty-year-old who was a virgin and not for profound religious or health reasons, it would set red flags for me as I would wonder what kind of psychological issues he might have with women that lead to his predicament.

[sally4sara]

Both men and women care about social status...but in very different ways. Women care about both, their own social status and their man's social status (in fact, for women, the latter is an extension of the former). Men only care about their ownsocial status.

 

The fellas weighing about how they would screw a "loose woman" but not have a relationship with her, clearly are concerned with her status.

[carhill]

Though you have me by four years, I have you by 12 now, so can offer some perspective.

 

You really don't need to change who you are, merely see yourself and any woman you choose to pursue as equals. That's all they are; equals. Nothing special. That was the biggest change for myself.

 

Since you've had relationships, even though no intercourse occurred, you can and do have 'game' to be attractive to women. All you have to do is assert yourself romantically and it will happen. It just will. Be clear in your mind that it will. Let her see it in your eyes that it will. With the right woman at that moment, even if she is not the right woman long-term, it will happen. If you're selective, who knows, you might become your future wife's 'prize' whom she's waited a long time for, even if she was promiscuous before.