Johnny M Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I always find it amusing when women ask why it is cool for a guy to sleep with tons of women, while a girl who sleeps around is considered a slut. If you think about it, that is really, really dumb question. Why? Because the answer is so damn obvious. Men and women have totally different views on the value of "experience" in potential mates. Most men would consider a girl who has been with too many partners as loose. And most women would classify a guy who hasn't been with enough partners as a loser. So there you go. Women are attracted to promiscuous men, while men are attracted to non-promiscuous women (which, like most aspects of human psychology, probably has roots in evolutionary adaptation). For women to try convince men that "sluts" are just as wholesome as the less experienced girls would be the equivalent of men trying to convince women that shy, nerdy, socially awkward nice guys are just as desirable as suave "bad boys".
Woggle Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Quite honestoly there is some truth to this. There are exceptions but women and men for the most part tend to find different things attractive in the opposite sex.
marsle85 Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) I liked your "loose"/"loser" comparision. Ha ha. The idea of a double standard is that both parties engage in the same behavior but are treated in a contrasting manner. Both bad boys and shy guys/nerds are "pressured" to engage in more sex- the end result is positive feedback on both accounts. Goodgirls and badgirls are encouraged to have more sex. On both accounts it's negative feedback, unless it's practically her first. Ultimately, women are much more forgiving when it comes to a shy guy who hasn't slept with many, than men are for an outgoing girl who has slept with many. This makes sense in it's own regard because obviously with increased partners comes increased chances of STD's, etc. Most importantly, I think it's the difference in how we see "promiscuity". We have to ask ourselves why we find the difference attractive. Maybe women are attracted to promiscuous men because in comparison to how women "should" behave- the typical man is promiscuous. Maybe men are attracted to non-promiscuous women because... compared to the way men behave and women are encouraged not to behave, the typical woman comes off as less promiscuous. Edited March 30, 2010 by marsle85
make me believe Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I have never in my life thought of a guy as a loser because he had "too few" sexual partners. In fact, my boyfriend has slept with significantly less people than I have and I find it to be a refreshing trait in him. He also does not consider me "loose" because I've been with more people than he has. Give me a break..
MalachiX Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I realize that the sexes are different but I also live by the rule that we treat others as we'd like to be treated so all the double standards on both sides drive me nuts. Yes we're different but we can at least try to be fair and equal in our discourse. I hate my fellow guys who say that women who sleep around are sluts but are fine with being man-whores. Either you're cool with being promiscous or your not. I especially can't stand guys who will sleep with someone they deem a "slut" and then put her down afterwards. How screwed up is that? I also hate women who decide that all men are pigs, or any guy who is interested in sex is a jerk not worthy of a relationship. I know so many women who are very pragmatic when it comes to sex and who brag about not wanting to date a guy who is bad in bed or has a small penis but are horrified at guys who are just trying to get laid or will break up with a girl for being too fat. I also hate people who act entitled in relationships. Men who think they are entitled to bang any girl they buy dinner for. Woman who think they are entitled to make judgments about a man personally based on what he finds attractive. ANYONE who seems to think they're entitled to date people far more attractive then they are. There's a reason why people form double standards but there's also a reason people end up as racists too. The bottom line is that we can aspire to something batter rather than just give excuses for why we want special treatment.
Author Johnny M Posted March 30, 2010 Author Posted March 30, 2010 I realize that the sexes are different but I also live by the rule that we treat others as we'd like to be treated so all the double standards on both sides drive me nuts. Yes we're different but we can at least try to be fair and equal in our discourse. You know the saying "you can't put a square peg in a round hole"? Trying to get the real world to conform with one's vision of an ideal world is equally futile.
St. Nick Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Quite honestoly there is some truth to this. There are exceptions but women and men for the most part tend to find different things attractive in the opposite sex. That says it all right there.
sally4sara Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I always find it amusing when women ask why it is cool for a guy to sleep with tons of women, while a girl who sleeps around is considered a slut. If you think about it, that is really, really dumb question. Why? Because the answer is so damn obvious. Men and women have totally different views on the value of "experience" in potential mates. Most men would consider a girl who has been with too many partners as loose. And most women would classify a guy who hasn't been with enough partners as a loser. So there you go. Women are attracted to promiscuous men, while men are attracted to non-promiscuous women (which, like most aspects of human psychology, probably has roots in evolutionary adaptation). For women to try convince men that "sluts" are just as wholesome as the less experienced girls would be the equivalent of men trying to convince women that shy, nerdy, socially awkward nice guys are just as desirable as suave "bad boys". If some level of promiscuity were not normal, there would be no "sluts". Sex feels good; that is why people have it. The above is a boxed in mentality. Of course men want think it makes them better, falling a$$ backwards into status for doing something normal sounds like a great perk. And hey, if you don't celebrate the little successes you life brings, you might not be celebrate at all. Some people's lives are like that. But this mentality seems to often come paired with some baseless misconception that men and women are different species rather that just different genders varying by one chromosome. How CONVENIENT to take such a small accomplishment as bedding someone who WANTS sex as a sign of self worth while thinking the same act makes another diminished is just plain tacky. But like I said, some people's lives are just like that.....
TheBigQuestion Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 The main reason for this double standard existing is that women have a far easier time acquiring lots of sexual partners. I don't believe that a huge majority of men condone manwhore-ish behavior (I don't). The only exception that most men have with this is if the hypothetical man is consistently and exclusively bedding hot women. Basically, praising a man for being able to bed lots of women makes sense because it's not easy. That's just the way that biology and society has made it in the present day. A woman, however average in looks or personality, usually has no problem finding a sex partner provided that she expends a fraction of the effort most men go through to reach the same goal. This doesn't mean that such behavior would be in her best interests, but I think that it is by and large true. Does this mean that the double-standard is right or wrong? I'm not really sure. But it's simply not a black and white issue. It's important to consider the context in which the so called double-standard exists.
St. Nick Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 If some level of promiscuity were not normal, there would be no "sluts". Sex feels good; that is why people have it. The above is a boxed in mentality. Of course men want think it makes them better, falling a$$ backwards into status for doing something normal sounds like a great perk. And hey, if you don't celebrate the little successes you life brings, you might not be celebrate at all. Some people's lives are like that. But this mentality seems to often come paired with some baseless misconception that men and women are different species rather that just different genders varying by one chromosome. How CONVENIENT to take such a small accomplishment as bedding someone who WANTS sex as a sign of self worth while thinking the same act makes another diminished is just plain tacky. But like I said, some people's lives are just like that..... What? Women make just as much of a deal over how many guy's another woman has been with more than men. I've always noticed women are more judgmental over how many men a woman has been with than men are. That's most likely why women are less likely to openly engage in promiscious sex or at least talk about it as much as men are, because of the ostracism women get from their own gender can be annihilating.
sally4sara Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 What? Women make just as much of a deal over how many guy's another woman has been with more than men. I've always noticed women are more judgmental over how many men a woman has been with than men are. That's most likely why women are less likely to openly engage in promiscious sex or at least talk about it as much as men are, because of the ostracism women get from their own gender can be annihilating. I am a woman and I don't make any deal over how many people sleep with how many other people. I might think something if they are committing rape or having an affair, but it really isn't my business. Nor yours. As for why some would? Well we do have this close minded double standard mentality held by society, so choosing something like how many people another person sleeps with to insult them. I've heard folks call practical strangers things like "slut" or "whore" just to provoke. Its a cheap shot. Tacky.
carhill Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 And most women would classify a guy who hasn't been with enough partners as a loser. Yes, IMO, when the pursuit of sex appears to be more than just a bodily function like urinating, it does appear perceived attractiveness of the man diminishes. This perspective is borne out in far-reaching behaviors which differ vastly from any-hole-will-do man. The aura is different. It doesn't matter if that low numbers guy was married for many years and a very good lover with one partner. He doesn't project the same aura as if he was polyamorous and bedded many women during his M or was a high numbers single guy during that same period. All one has to do is read LS to see this reality. Even the advice is different for the low numbers man when exiting a relationship. Take your time, heal. High numbers guy doesn't ask advice (or doesn't take it) and moves from hole to hole like a gopher in springtime, and those holes are willing and responsive. IME, choosing to be sexually selective does have a significant downside for a male in social acceptance both with women *and* men. The low numbers male has less social proof. He's not 'known'. In the competetive world of males, a fatter wallet, a bigger d*ck and more holes filled are the holy grail of success. Go to any well-attended funeral and see
St. Nick Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I am a woman and I don't make any deal over how many people sleep with how many other people. I might think something if they are committing rape or having an affair, but it really isn't my business. Nor yours. As for why some would? Well we do have this close minded double standard mentality held by society, so choosing something like how many people another person sleeps with to insult them. I've heard folks call practical strangers things like "slut" or "whore" just to provoke. Its a cheap shot. Tacky. Whoa! You must be one of the minority of women who is laidback about this because I notice this stuff from women all the time. My female family members used to give me crap for getting a woman they considered to be "too loose". Slut, skank, strumptet, what have you. They went harder against them than the men in my family. Same thing with my female co-workers, my female schoolmates, my female neighbors, or just any random female I knew. All the time women I've known have been fierce in their criticism of women they consider "too loose". The cattyness, jealous, bickering, two-timing, backstabbing, nice-to-your-face-mean-behind-your-back attitude women can display is fierce. Yeah, you and maybe a few other women on this forum can say you don't see it, but I DEFINITELY see it. Women make a bigger deal over female promiscuity than men. No lie.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Whoa! You must be one of the minority of women who is laidback about this because I notice this stuff from women all the time. My female family members used to give me crap for getting a woman they considered to be "too loose". Slut, skank, strumptet, what have you. They went harder against them than the men in my family. Same thing with my female co-workers, my female schoolmates, my female neighbors, or just any random female I knew. All the time women I've known have been fierce in their criticism of women they consider "too loose". The cattyness, jealous, bickering, two-timing, backstabbing, nice-to-your-face-mean-behind-your-back attitude women can display is fierce. Yeah, you and maybe a few other women on this forum can say you don't see it, but I DEFINITELY see it. Women make a bigger deal over female promiscuity than men. No lie. I'm not sure if I can quantify it as accurately as you claim to do, but most women I know are extremely critical of the sex lives of other women. It isn't always obvious, and it is often expressed in a passive-aggressive manner, but women hate other women, and do so without remorse.
Houndsoflove Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I've never been attracted to men who have had many partners by being a complete whore. I prefer my men in the middle. No virgins and no dirty water dogs. Generally having had many many partners is just not attractive. But that's just me, some people don't care how many people their partner has slept with. The mentality that men can sleep around as much as they want while expecting no damage to their name and expecting women who do the same to be viewed as dirty is hypocritical and entitled. Most people want a partner who has some level of pureness to them.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I was always under the impression that most people didn't advertise their previous number of sex partners on their sleeves. That's what participating in some threads on this forum has led me to believe. This thread makes it seem like promiscuity always somehow ends up being public knowledge. I'm confused.
carhill Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 This thread makes it seem like promiscuity always somehow ends up being public knowledge. I'm confused.Ever heard of the Barbie Hotline? My stbx worked at hotline central, aka the 'beauty salon'. Stick a couple dozen female stylists and a couple hundred clients together each day and there ya go. I can't begin to tell what I overheard while 'fixing' things there. 'Are your ears burning?' was a favorite saying of my erstwhile female friend. One can only imagine (I didn't have to; I heard it directly) what was said to others about the guy she was banging. This is how a man gets to be 'known'. It's probably why I had married female friends getting too 'friendly'. Talk, talk, talk.
MalachiX Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 You know the saying "you can't put a square peg in a round hole"? Of course I have. For some reason that phrase always gets me aroused. Is that bad? Trying to get the real world to conform with one's vision of an ideal world is equally futile. The real world changes when we expect better of ourselves. I don't believe in stewing in our baser emotions. I don't bludgen even guy who cuts me off in traffic to death with a tire iron even though I want to (I only kill some of them). I don't grope every attractive woman I see even though the thought occurs to me (Judge specifically told me that's bad). As I said, rationalisations for why there should be a double standard for men and woman always sound SO much like the same rationalizations I hear for racism or forms of discrimination. I know women who don't like men with a high sexual count and I know guys (I wish there were more) who don't consider a woman a slut for having a lot of partners. We're individuals more than we're simply automitons who's actions are determined by our gender, sexual preferance, or race. I really would like to know what harm there is for NOT calling promiscuous women "sluts" and not calling un-experienced guys "losers."
Author Johnny M Posted March 30, 2010 Author Posted March 30, 2010 I really would like to know what harm there is for NOT calling promiscuous women "sluts" and not calling un-experienced guys "losers." Again, you are missing the point. We are not talking about what people are called - we are talking about the way people are perceived.
Els Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 True. But men who embrace this theory should also not complain about not getting sex early on, since a woman has to protect herself from being 'promiscuous' based on this theory, after all.
boogieboy Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 There are 2 types of people. Ones who want to be polygamous, and ones who want to be monogamous. When the two get mixed up, then you get name calling. Just like how people want to stay with their own race, polygamists need to stay with polygamists, and so on. Then no one would be worried about their sexual numbers. Any anyone who spreads rumors about other people are covering up their own misery. And theyre usually women being catty to other women.
blind_otter Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Again, you are missing the point. We are not talking about what people are called - we are talking about the way people are perceived. I suppose those perceptions are not really an issue if the person in question is either unaware or does not care about such things. I am also quite interested in hearing how people find out that others are promiscuous. Sure, I hear a lot of rumors, but I naturally assume that they are at least 50% bullsh*t because I am in my 30s and I have not lived in a cave since I was born.
carhill Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 IMO, guys who focus on this stuff have situational ethics, wanting the woman to be chaste, except with them. An extension of the perfect mother, chaste and proper in public and whore in the bedroom perspective. The women who focus on this stuff bear their own burdens too. They want the man to have eyes only for them, but love and find attractive the experience his roving eye brings. That dearth, defined by a low sexual number, lessens attraction, that ethereal quality which exudes from a person. In her mind, the woman wants the man who wants only her, but her loins are attracted to the man who wants other women and those women him. Getting him to commit, even if it is tenuous and the territory constantly patrolled, fuels that attraction. Not all people focus on the numbers or apply standards to them. Finding compatibility, whichever perspective that regards, is key IMO.
Silver_star Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 You are clearly a very unhappy individual. I always hear your "arguments" and your posts and you have so much hate in your soul. I am truly sympathetic because of your views. They are skewed completely by your lack of wanting to be decent towards women because one or two may have wronged you in the past. Now all of your evaluations create little rationale or evidence to support your views, just blanket assumptions based on movies, or misogynist ideas you have adapted over time. Tsk. Your simply not a credible source for advice.
carhill Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I am also quite interested in hearing how people find out that others are promiscuous. Sure, I hear a lot of rumors, but I naturally assume that they are at least 50% bullsh*t because I am in my 30s and I have not lived in a cave since I was born. I would say most folks are like yourself. However, the rumor mill becomes a social proof of its own, through repetition and as a form of advertisement. Do you think people get popular because they quietly go about doing good for the world around them? Do you think men get labeled as 'catches' publicly because they've been quietly faithful to their spouse for many years? It's people who are 'out there' with expressive and often outrageous behaviors who garner social proof and popularity. This can increase exponentially if that person is considered 'attractive' by others. That same 'attractive' person can live a life of relative anonymity simply by not 'putting it out there'. There are a lot of such people who do, as well as a lot of not so attractive people who are popular because they're 'out there' looking for it. The OP's style may sometimes be abrasive, but, in this case, the double standard he alludes to has a lot of real experience which I can identify with to back it up. I won't become seriously emotionally involved with a high numbers woman again. There have been too many commonalities psychologically to ignore. I hope they feel likewise, that my low numbers are unattractive. Easy avoidance; no TCAS required. Plenty of separation
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