mammax3 Posted March 27, 2010 Posted March 27, 2010 I'm working through some of my issues. One big thing is recognizing I don't control or am in charge of anyone else's emotions - there is nothing I can do. I can't fix anyone. People have to make their own decisions and I can't be a friend to someone who doesn't want me to be a friend to them. This may sound obvious, but it's been a real struggle for me. How can I be there for someone, or deal with them not wanting me to be there? What is the point of two people coming together and how can I come to terms with this? I feel all lost. This probably doesn't even make any sense, but I'm very uncertain about relationships look like if I just let it go on it's own path. Any input? Thanks for reading.
Tayla Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 Bravo for learning that persons are accountable for their own perceptions and emotional stability. What is missed is the ability to support and listen 99% of the time. One can validate the persons' emotion without "owning" it or feeling they "created" it. A true friend learns thru time what the other friend needs and how to respond to it. Hope this helps! Feel free to clarify what your specifics are in the dilema you are enduring.
Author mammax3 Posted March 28, 2010 Author Posted March 28, 2010 Thanks Tayla. Helping other people gives me a sense of worth and value. If I can't help someone (or be there for them) then I don't feel good about myself. I've got a maybe-SO-type person who I feel is pushing me away, but he's got a lot of struggles in his life, and I think it would really be good if he had someone in his corner. I can't penetrate his steely exterior and make him need me (all said with an understanding that this is impossible). So it's left me unsure of how to proceed. He's indicated that he's more open with me than anyone else, we've shared a lot in the last year, we've been intimate. He's not very comfortable sharing emotions and hasn't had a lot of practice with how to have someone close in his life. His level of interaction isn't what i would like and this is part of the problem. I'd like more closeness, and he's uneasy with that. I can't share myself intimately with him when it's this one sided, but I can't pressure him into wanting more, and he can't convince me to want less. I'd be okay with his level if it were less SO-like, and more friendship-like, but our physical connection is something we both really like (hand holding, kissing and affectionate stuff). This is the first relationship I've had where I'm trying hard not to control/fix but I can't see where I'm going without trying to influence things. I really like him, and I'm pretty sure he really likes me, but we're just stuck on this piece as it relates to control, interaction and level of committment.
Eve Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 H'mmmm.. maybe I am missing something here but it does sound as though you are repeating everything you dont want to do in this relationship as well sweetheart. Above all else having sex with someone who isnt able to match your emotional expectations isnt healthy in my opinion. Has it always been this way for you? The main red flag for me is this need to please that you express. Some level of 'pleasing' ones partner is healthy but what you describe just seems so one sided. Dunno.. giving and hoping you get some back is ok if you are doing some sort of voluntary work but I dont think it healthy to live out actual relationships as such. I have seen such things before but usually with people who have been abused somehow or really lack self worth. Be careful that you are not in fact giving away what you need to give to yourself and I assume by your username, your three children. No, the 'input' and 'output' just doesnt seem to match to me. Are you receiving counselling at the moment? Take care, Eve xx
Author mammax3 Posted March 29, 2010 Author Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) Thanks eve. You're spot on with the 'need to please' and the disconnect I feel from my own wants/needs and fulfilling them in a healthy way. My counsellor and I are working on that. I've always equated sexual intimacy as a barometer of how much a man likes me - I was with my exH for about 10 years, and have been separated for 3 years. This man is my first interest post-divorce and it's technically long distance. As a result, there's not been much interaction with my kids and we usually get together as friends with our kids - so it seems like a playdate. The input and output aren't matching up the way I'd think is most healthy. I've recently come to the realization that I DO think I can help him/fix him/give him something he's never had - wrong way of thinking in a relationship - I like your point about giving in a volunteer setting vs in a relationship, thank you for that. So if that's true, what happens in a relationship? What's the 'point'? I just seem to be missing that bit. Also, he's been very patient with me as I work through some of my past hurts, he's been very consistent with his level of interest up until recently. (I think he was a catalyst in bringing my issues into focus - I can't express how important he's been in my life over the last 1.5 years) I'm sort of leaning to downgrade us into friends status - but I'm not sure if that would be better. I recently told him that I'm not comfortable with the disparate levels of emotional and physical intimacy. He is comfortable with the current levels. I thought we were just incompatible in that way, but when we're together (not often) it really works. Thanks for being there to listen and offer! Edited March 29, 2010 by mammax3 Clarity of thought
Eve Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Thanks eve. You're spot on with the 'need to please' and the disconnect I feel from my own wants/needs and fulfilling them in a healthy way. My counsellor and I are working on that. I've always equated sexual intimacy as a barometer of how much a man likes me - I was with my exH for about 10 years, and have been separated for 3 years. This man is my first interest post-divorce and it's technically long distance. As a result, there's not been much interaction with my kids and we usually get together as friends with our kids - so it seems like a playdate. The input and output aren't matching up the way I'd think is most healthy. I've recently come to the realization that I DO think I can help him/fix him/give him something he's never had - wrong way of thinking in a relationship - I like your point about giving in a volunteer setting vs in a relationship, thank you for that. So if that's true, what happens in a relationship? What's the 'point'? I just seem to be missing that bit. Also, he's been very patient with me as I work through some of my past hurts, he's been very consistent with his level of interest up until recently. (I think he was a catalyst in bringing my issues into focus - I can't express how important he's been in my life over the last 1.5 years) I'm sort of leaning to downgrade us into friends status - but I'm not sure if that would be better. I recently told him that I'm not comfortable with the disparate levels of emotional and physical intimacy. He is comfortable with the current levels. I thought we were just incompatible in that way, but when we're together (not often) it really works. Thanks for being there to listen and offer! Glad you are in counselling. Over time you willcome to define yet clearer what you do and do not want. Well done you for taking this step! I have never been divorced but I have heard that it is a pretty draining experience. What jumped out to me is a sense that there is some sort of 'gap' between having experienced a defined role via marraige and now not having that definition. Maybe you would like more emotional closeness as a means to kind of fill that gap? Thats what I get from you. I suppose that you have to be careful as people do have 'in between' relationships. 'In between' meaning, 'inbetween' anything meaningful. Only you can decide whats acceptable within such an arrangement. I dont think this is all that bad for some but can be crippling for others. Personally I can see that in retrospect my former partners before my Hubby did carry some resemblances in very abstract ways; certain characteristics, personality traits etc. However some level of change had to occur in me before I was ready for my Hubby. The main change was valuing my need to give. .. but thats a different story that has a definate spiritual center... A relationship of 1.5 years is not something to be sniffed at and you say that it really works when you are together. To me it seems as though this may be a case of wanting more and wanting this man to lead on things? I say, dont fall into any of that. Define what you want by being open and give what you want. Nah, dont get stuck on thinking that emotional closeness is some sort of prize to be bestowed on you. You must decide how much of your focus you want to give this thing. If its a once a week thing then great that you have company, as humans we need companionship, but I wouldnt give the relationship a marital place in your heart. This could just be a stepping stone. I too equate sexual intimacy with how I feel the relationship is going so dont sleep with anyone unless I want more. However, it is key to note that once that has happened I dont think that I am owed anything. Here the issue with 'giving' needs more clarity which I hope you will achieve within counselling. Giving should be a pure act in its ideal form. To me, in a relationship the giving comes as part of companionship. I suppose we all have to define what companionship means to us. For some it is a financial arrangement, to others its something that makes them feel good about their bodies, to others they use it to have a sense that they are good people. Yeah, I think that working out how you 'use' companionship is pretty key within how overall character is developed. .. but thats all pretty deep and many do not have an analytic mind. Maybe lay off asking for emotional closeness for a while and allow the real state of your relationship to simply be. You may like it! .. but keep up with the counselling sessions and be good to yourself and the kids above all else. If this is going to work you have to allow this man to give what he has without prompting from you. In this way you'll sort of fix each other by just being .. well, just that, just being happy together. If when you stop asking and fixing things die between you... well face that when the time comes. I wouldnt try to prempt this.. Take care, Eve xx
Author mammax3 Posted March 29, 2010 Author Posted March 29, 2010 Wow Eve, thanks so much! There is much I need to absorb from what you've written, so I'm going to come back and reread this after I've thought about it a little while. "Lay off asking about emotional ... just be" I hope I can do this. I so badly want to define and analyze and categorize. I'll strive for this 'be' when I see him this week. Thanks Eve.
Eve Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 I hope that others here can add their view also as I understand that some have been through divorce. I understand that it can be a really big re-adjustment and maybe input from others will give you more to reflect on. Re-entering the dating pool cant be easy. I dont think I would be too good at it.. I am just happy to have a nice meal and a good laugh! Nowadays people want too much! I would probably get dumped! Usually a focus on what language is generally used by you and what you have come to be used to hearing is a pertinent point that Counsellors help to unfold. This can be really enlightening. Ask if you can look at this too. Make the most of your sessions and read, read, read. Self education is the most important tool that we have. .. but keep up the good work and as I said.. be good to yourself and those children of yours. Take care, Eve xx
taurusincus Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Yeah right ultimately its upon the person to decide what it is really looking for. It hurts but it is the fact that some people are not as excited about us as we are about them.I think in such cases its better to give the relationship that space and move on to more exciting friendships and relationships.
Author mammax3 Posted March 30, 2010 Author Posted March 30, 2010 Thanks, taurusincus for your perspective. It's hard to give space when we want it to work, but sometimes that is necessary. I've been thinking about your post today, Eve. The divorced piece is definitely a factor, as I'm not used to building a romantic/significant relationship anymore. I knew my exH since I was a teenager, and we didn't really grow together, but that's another story. I think I inappropriately attempt to create that sort of inherent intimacy, or relationship as I was used to in my marriage. I mean, it was dysfunctional, and I'm trying to avoid that, but I'm not too sure what it is that I'm trying to make. And that's only my piece, he's got his own issues that he's working out. I could hypothesize about his motivations and baggage, but that's not for me to solve - and I suspect that I've been diagnosing him, and beginning treatment for him without his input, if you know what i mean. I've decided that he needs intimacy and support in the way that I feel comfortable offering it - not his needs at all, apparently. I hear what you're saying about this being a stepping stone; only a part of our respective journeys. I think that it would be good to clarify what we're both after, and what intimacy means, and companionship. I think we're both off the mark on what we each want (or maybe not) but at any rate, I think I'll just try to be chill for the next little bit and try to see what's actually here rather than forcing what I'd like to see. And I really like what you said about giving for me. I shouldn't be giving anything of myself with the expectation of a return on investment, so to speak - is that what you're saying? I guess where I get hung up is that I can give and give affection, attention and love, but if he's not interested in it, then it comes off as manipulative and needy. I need to make sure that the feedback I'm getting influences my behaviour. I guess I could ask for clarification about that too. But still, I'll let things take a backseat. All of what he's saying, and has said indicates that he likes me, but he's got his own things to work on. I can trust in that and chill out. Thanks again for your perspective and suggestions.
Eve Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 And I really like what you said about giving for me. I shouldn't be giving anything of myself with the expectation of a return on investment, so to speak - is that what you're saying? I guess where I get hung up is that I can give and give affection, attention and love, but if he's not interested in it, then it comes off as manipulative and needy. I need to make sure that the feedback I'm getting influences my behaviour. I guess I could ask for clarification about that too. I think this a million dollar question.. Motivation is key methinks and there isnt a marker more efficient than ones gut feeling. So when you are being giving off yourself, I think its about trusting that gut feeling. If you are not at balance for one reason or another this can be very hard to trust though. Especially if you both have issues at the moment. Does he support you at certain times though? In previous relationships I chose to continue to give affection but it was more about me than the other person. It was about embracing who I am as a person and finding my place in the world... blah blah blah, spiritual stuff. But as I said in another post there was a difference in whether the person had a marital place in my heart or not. The difference that I have found with Hubby is that we seem to be able to be strong for each other when the other one is weak. This just sort of happens and its .. nice. Previously being weak was almost like an omen of some sort within the relationship and any joint effort at introspection never really went very far. In fact it almost seemed to make matters worse! Another guide that I have followed is I have always had this thing about 'setting the other person free'. At the very basic level if I didnt feel that the other person was able to do this for me then I let them go. I just dont think it right to know that you dont want someone and keep on with that person, often in a lax way anyway! This to me meant that they were running away from some aspect of their freedom and the burden is always too much for another person to carry in such circumstances. So I didnt feel in anyway burdened by finishing with them in such situations. So, definately talk but personally I think just 'being' when together is the highest aim within companionship and will reveal all. The 'flavour' that you add to this experience should be your focus. I do believe that we all have this essence already, inbuilt and it never goes away, its just our focus can fluctuate. He is responsible for whatever 'flavour' he brings. It is entirely up to you whether you want this or not. You do not have to fix anything. I have found that the flow of life naturally fixes things for those who seek it out. Just remember that coming off as manipulative and needy may not be your finest hour but he may not even see things like this. How he handles things at such moments is key too. My Hubby is the only man that has ever been able to handle me when I have my 'moments', I handle him when he is going off on one too. Dont know.. its just part of it. Eventually you get to see things as they build up and become better at supporting each other. Each relationship has different thresholds and from what you say you are still adjusting after the divorce and everything. But yeah, if you are continuously having to ask for affection though and your gut says that he is not interested, I would be more concerned that when push comes to shove he would not be man enough to set me free and instead just waste my time.. So take it easy and see what happens without any intervention by you. Really hope it works out in one way or another and that you can see that you can survive this either way. Concentrate on what you want from life overall though. Men and kids can quite simply do your head in. Be the best you can be and live your life to the full. You might as well.. Take care, Eve xx
Author mammax3 Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 Thanks Eve. I really took your comment about just 'being' together this week, and we had a pretty nice night. I was chilled out, he was chilled and we just hung out. I didn't intend on getting serious that night, but mindful of some other threads here that indicate physical intimacy isn't currency for emotional closeness, I decided that I'd like some intimacy And that was nice too. Unfortunately, there has been no attempt at communication from his side indicating he had a good time, or that he had fun, or a thank you or anything. That really hurts. I feel definitely like I'm only along for the physical piece and I don't even rate a text saying 'thanks, good to see you'. Really hurts. I made a decision to get intimate with him for my own needs, not withhold it as a 'only be emotionally open with me, then you get some' ploy, and I feel that I'm no better than a fb. Ugh. I'm not too sure where this is going, but I guess I'm not as okay with "just" the physical piece as I thought I was. I suppose more because he was so affectionate verbally with me the other night I thought that... I don't know. I knew that he wouldn't change his mind about what he wants, and I understand that men may view intimacy differently than women, but really. I feel really hurt. Any input? Thanks.
Eve Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Thanks Eve. I really took your comment about just 'being' together this week, and we had a pretty nice night. I was chilled out, he was chilled and we just hung out. I didn't intend on getting serious that night, but mindful of some other threads here that indicate physical intimacy isn't currency for emotional closeness, I decided that I'd like some intimacy And that was nice too. Unfortunately, there has been no attempt at communication from his side indicating he had a good time, or that he had fun, or a thank you or anything. That really hurts. I feel definitely like I'm only along for the physical piece and I don't even rate a text saying 'thanks, good to see you'. Really hurts. I made a decision to get intimate with him for my own needs, not withhold it as a 'only be emotionally open with me, then you get some' ploy, and I feel that I'm no better than a fb. Ugh. I'm not too sure where this is going, but I guess I'm not as okay with "just" the physical piece as I thought I was. I suppose more because he was so affectionate verbally with me the other night I thought that... I don't know. I knew that he wouldn't change his mind about what he wants, and I understand that men may view intimacy differently than women, but really. I feel really hurt. Any input? Thanks. What is a fb? So he has given you some level of verbal affection. I hate to generalise but men tend to not really want to overly repeat such things. However, I would find it odd that he did not text or call, especially as you have known each other for 1.5 years. He must know by now that this is what you want or even need - especially after intimacy. .. but you did have a good time with him and he with you. Have you both decided on another time to meet up? You have identified that you consider that sexual intimacy is a very serious matter to you and you both seem compatible in this regard as you have not indicated otherwise. Although you have expressed feeling hurt, as you are both adults I cant see how you are going to be able to concentrate on just your communication style here, without the sex. In total, sex is now part of this relationship and maybe you should both focus on building up the time that you spend together? This seems the next logical step. With this in mind the main option in my mind is maybe that you should swallow whatever you are feeling because it could be part of an emotional over reaction on your part. When you see him again, do the same thing as before and just be together. Dont start questioning him about why he didnt text, blah blah blah, instead focus simply on being together. Just Let things happen naturally. Ask him to call you or say that you will give him a ring in the week.. do this for no other reason than you want to see how he is doing. Both review where you are at after say four weeks. Without the central focus of caring about each other day to day.. I cant see how this can be a satisfying relationship. But I equally cant see how wanting a commitment can come without emotional intimacy being the core of the relationship. BUT I am leaning towards a view that he is opting to take things easy between the two of you because children are involved/past hurt rather than viewing that something suspicious is going on in the background here. Within all of the above, it may be wise to review how you have come to view how relationships develop. Often this can cloud our view of what we have right in front of us. What do those who know the both of you think about things? Personally I have little tolerance for anything other than a mutual, free flowing relationship. But I can envision that there are going to be many difficulties ahead if you both decide to join both families together. You are going to have to be rock solid as a couple to do that. *Sigh* IDK.. relationships can be really hard sometimes.. but they dont have to be as such. I think you have to go for what you want. If this isnt satisfying for you... you have to decided whether to walk away or not. Take care, Eve xx
Author mammax3 Posted April 6, 2010 Author Posted April 6, 2010 FB is **** buddy. And I guess that doesn't quite describe us since when we are together we share emotional stuff, I overemphasize the physical piece. He is verbally affectionate, and he seems to try to communicate through texts, msgs so I'm seeing that he does want to make it work. I can't tell if we're just not compatible, as Carhill says. No matter how much I like him, or want it to work, sometimes there's just an incompatibility it seems. I texted him a few days later and we sort of chatted about his lack of texting 'after'. He said I didn't text either True, but hardly the point. He said he'd thought of me but didn't have time to text. We haven't made another time to meet, and I've been laying low. He's contacted me a number of times to just say hi and let me know how his days are going. I really like your "just be" approach, one in which I'm terribly unfamiliar but I think it's really chilling me out. So far over the past few days I've not been very emotional or needy or anything but it feels as though that means I'm starting not to care. Does that make sense? "Without the central focus of caring about each other day to day.. I cant see how this can be a satisfying relationship. But I equally cant see how wanting a commitment can come without emotional intimacy being the core of the relationship. BUT I am leaning towards a view that he is opting to take things easy between the two of you because children are involved/past hurt rather than viewing that something suspicious is going on in the background here" I agree. He's expressed he doesn't want to feel that he's 'checking in' and that he has to keep me posted about where he's going, who he's with and what he's doing. That's not what I'm talking about when I say chat during the day, but that's where his mind seems to go. Thanks for all your suggestions and insight. I really appreciate it. I'm not sure where we're going, but I'll try the 'just be' approach for the next few weeks and see where we're at. There've been some other guys asking for dates (they pale in comparison) but it might help me see some more of what I'd like in a partner if I explore other relationships. mx3
You Go Girl Posted April 7, 2010 Posted April 7, 2010 I can't tell if we're just not compatible, as Carhill says. No matter how much I like him, or want it to work, sometimes there's just an incompatibility it seems. I agree. He's expressed he doesn't want to feel that he's 'checking in' and that he has to keep me posted about where he's going, who he's with and what he's doing. That's not what I'm talking about when I say chat during the day, but that's where his mind seems to go. This relationship seems to not bring you satisfaction. His words that he doesn't want to feel he is checking in... excuse me, but did you ask him to check in? Otherwise, those are the words of the emotionally 'unavailable'. They are the words of a no-committment man. Now maybe you and I are both impatient relative to his thinking. But, you seem to obviously need more than he is giving. And, pretending nonchalant when you want things to progress faster is just cheating yourself, not being true to yourself. Honesty is still the best policy. If you want more--say so. It's YOUR LIFE. Your time...and time is precious.
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