Is the "married"/attached Part the Actual Attractive Quality?

[pureinheart]

Spark, I agree with this but to a point.

 

On the flip side, there are the cases, mine being one, where it had been communicated numerous times but still when I left it was a bit of a surprise.

 

The unhappy partner can communicate it but it doesn't necessarily mean that the other partner "hears" it especially if they have been saying it for years but not making any actions towards changing it themselves.

 

I think we see that in many cases when where a wife leaves and the husband is shocked. She is at wit's end and she is done and for him that is the awakening. Why we see so many discussions about how a woman mourns the relationship while in it and a man mourns it afterwards.

 

In my case I made sure I laid the foundation to say I did/asked/tried x, y, and z. I could not control him and his reaction but for my own peace of mind had to do what I needed to freely walk away. But this did not mean that HE saw it the same way and recognized the signs. But that wasn't something I could control.

 

And trust me, poor communication skills and conflict avoidance is seen by the OP LONG before Dday!

 

OMG Got it, yep you GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Without going into a big long explanation/story...this is exactly what happened to me... I tried everything ...soooooo my daughters dad had an A because I was "bitchy and nagging"....EXCUSE ME!!!!!!! Communicating my feelings after working a 10/12 hr day 6/7 days a week while he "partied" after work because (oh poor baby) HEEEEE was stressed out, while I was doing ALLLLLLL of the cleaning/picking up kids/taking kids everywhere and getting diagnosed with all kinds of stress related illnesses, including CANCER I might add.....and then I am the B*TCH when I leave because I did not run him down and air out dirty laundry to every Tom, Dick and Harry the way he did to me!!!!

 

He ran me down to everyone, not understanding why I found someone else.

Edited March 29, 2010 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

Thanks for allowing my "rant" in reply #126...it has only to do with Got it's post as I had not read all of the further replies/posts.

 

I am especially angry this week as my daughters dad came to CA for a court date concerning child support with his "second" set of kids in which he has almost totally disowned my/his daughter.

 

His now exW (and I use that term extremely loosly, holding back what I would really like to say as I would get banned for sure) complained/harrassed me to no end due to him having to pay me child support...now she demands he pay her.....EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! Oh and the reason she is demanding it is because her parents are kicking her out...she's 44 years old...it's about time...she needs the money because she doesn't like to work for a living....I'm extremely pissed...sorry.

 

Oh this time he visited my daughter TWICE....WOW....the reason why....he wasn't screwing his ex and she forbid him to see his own freaking daughter....I want to throw something......yes, I do have anger issues.

Edited March 29, 2010 by pureinheart

[sally4sara]

Hi Sally,

 

If I am reading this correctly, what you are communicating is the MP is in essence "affairing down"?

 

I have to wonder if the MP is affairing down, why would they jeapordise their M?

 

Unless it has nothing to do with anything except real love emotions, a real attachment to the AP.

 

Well in a way, it must be if the BS met their spouse in an above board manner (single non affair style). The BS is not someone who engaged with them in sneaking around and at the betrayal of another. This is part of what I meant when I mentioned personal baggage. They didn't respond to a person who had a lot in tow, and they didn't have a partner themselves so they too, didn't have a lot of that negative personal baggage in tow. It at least indicates the BS has interpersonal relationship integrity where as the AP does not. The AP WILL and DID respond favorably to someone with attachments. Therefore the AP is less attractive in that they will settle for less while the spouse did not (knowingly anyway ). This is just one way of defining it.

The MP put their relationship in jeopardy by choosing to cheat not just by who they cheat with - they affair down by finding someone who would overlook their personal attachments. Some AP even profess to the fact that they were attached as the selling point. The BS went for an unattached person (usually). So the BS has a more attractive initial relationship standard.

Look, I read often how bad the MP's marriage is and sometimes an AP can cite reasons for it that blame the BS. Whatever. Poor poor MP HAD options to change this so that they could meet someone new without attachments. Oh but the MP has kids and what not they didn't want to lose - well an affair won't prevent the MP winding up divorced so an affair isn't the option of prevention for this concern. It is the excuse for not using integrity. So responding favorably to a MP and using the kids as the reason for settling on this MP is empty. The AP is still settling for less than a whole person while the BS did not.

[califnan]

It is easier to accept the fact that you contribute the divorce and wife's pain and you steal a man if you paint the wife one dimentional --all black, a mean nazi who doesn't have much feeling in her and possibly won't feel pain, nothing good come out of her, isn't it? paint self as a hero at the same time, and the man is just poor and all innocent, wait to be rescued

 

---------------------

 

Exactly ... Let's hear it for a little repentance ..

[califnan]

It is easier to accept the fact that you contribute the divorce and wife's pain and you steal a man if you paint the wife one dimentional --all black, a mean nazi who doesn't have much feeling in her and possibly won't feel pain, nothing good come out of her, isn't it? paint self as a hero at the same time, and the man is just poor and all innocent, wait to be rescued

 

--------------------------

 

And to add: OW should read - Infidelity Board: "My husband's Emotional Affair" .. to see the Other side of the story ..

[Got it]

Well in a way, it must be if the BS met their spouse in an above board manner (single non affair style). The BS is not someone who engaged with them in sneaking around and at the betrayal of another. This is part of what I meant when I mentioned personal baggage. They didn't respond to a person who had a lot in tow, and they didn't have a partner themselves so they too, didn't have a lot of that negative personal baggage in tow. It at least indicates the BS has interpersonal relationship integrity where as the AP does not. The AP WILL and DID respond favorably to someone with attachments. Therefore the AP is less attractive in that they will settle for less while the spouse did not (knowingly anyway ). This is just one way of defining it.

The MP put their relationship in jeopardy by choosing to cheat not just by who they cheat with - they affair down by finding someone who would overlook their personal attachments. Some AP even profess to the fact that they were attached as the selling point. The BS went for an unattached person (usually). So the BS has a more attractive initial relationship standard.

Look, I read often how bad the MP's marriage is and sometimes an AP can cite reasons for it that blame the BS. Whatever. Poor poor MP HAD options to change this so that they could meet someone new without attachments. Oh but the MP has kids and what not they didn't want to lose - well an affair won't prevent the MP winding up divorced so an affair isn't the option of prevention for this concern. It is the excuse for not using integrity. So responding favorably to a MP and using the kids as the reason for settling on this MP is empty. The AP is still settling for less than a whole person while the BS did not.

 

You need to preface this with "according to you". Your opinion is based on the above the person affaired down. None of the parties may actually agree with you. Shoot I have seen on the other Infidelity boards where the BS said they affaired up.

 

Also the part bolded, how do you know that the BS has interpersonal relationship intergrity? Is that only based on sexual fidelity? What does that term mean?

 

Also the past part, the AP is settling but the BS is not. If there is a dday and the BS takes back the WS is that not settling? They know they have been untrue but still chose the individual again. Also what if the BS had been a WS at some point, what then?

 

And lastly if a couple is separated but not yet legally divorced, what about a relationship during that time period?

[OWoman]

Really? I hope you wholeheartly enjoy that,

 

We do, believe me. It's perpetual bliss

 

it is your victory over a woman and her pain after all.

 

OTC - it's my H's victory over his pain that matters to us. TBH if his BW sustained any pain in the process, I'd regard it as "collateral damage" for all the pain she inflicted on him and the kids over the decades - and her 1st H that she cheated on. I didn't set out to damage her - she was damaged already long before I came on the scene. Her outcomes are entirely of her own making.

 

I am not against a person loves another, but why cannot you wait for him to divorce at first

 

D wasn't on his agenda. He saw it as his duty to stick it out until the kids were grown. If he hadn't been shown that love doesn't equal hurt, by exposure to another R (the A) he'd have carried on putting up with it until something blew up one way or another.

 

I didn't "snap" him. I made a suggestion that he might consider, and he agreed to my terms. He certainly exercised agency in the matter. You might as well ask, why didn't he D her sooner and find himself a healthy R and a healthy homelife for his kids, or why didn't she treat them with respect and love instead of abuse, or why didn't she D her first H before seducing a kid? None of those things happened the way you'd have preferred. Too bad, so sad, but the rest of us move on and deal with what IS, not with what we think SHOULD BE.

[califnan]

Thanks for allowing my "rant" in reply #126...it has only to do with Got it's post as I had not read all of the further replies/posts.

 

I am especially angry this week as my daughters dad came to CA for a court date concerning child support with his "second" set of kids in which he has almost totally disowned my/his daughter.

 

His now exW (and I use that term extremely loosly, holding back what I would really like to say as I would get banned for sure) complained/harrassed me to no end due to him having to pay me child support...now she demands he pay her.....EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!! Oh and the reason she is demanding it is because her parents are kicking her out...she's 44 years old...it's about time...she needs the money because she doesn't like to work for a living....I'm extremely pissed...sorry.

 

Oh this time he visited my daughter TWICE....WOW....the reason why....he wasn't screwing his ex and she forbid him to see his own freaking daughter....I want to throw something......yes, I do have anger issues.

 

-----------------------

 

Pure ... I am so so sorry for your situation. I pray that this cad (player) maintains enough of a good job situation to take care of his Responsibilities!!

 

It is not fair that mothers must be put in position as to going to court, keeping track of jobs, bank accounts, and the DA . .. for the sake of keeping these men ontop of their responsibilities ..

 

take care

[OWoman]

It is easier to accept the fact that you contribute the divorce and wife's pain and you steal a man if you paint the wife one dimentional --all black, a mean nazi who doesn't have much feeling in her and possibly won't feel pain, nothing good come out of her, isn't it? paint self as a hero at the same time, and the man is just poor and all innocent, wait to be rescued

:lmao: :lmao:

1. you can only "steal" things that are inert and have no agency of their own.
   
2. I don't have to "paint the W one dimensional" - I don't paint her at all. I merely mention those facts about her that are relevant to the matter in hand at the time. Any more would be TMI.
   
3. Did I ever say she won't feel pain? I'm sure she does - people with narcissistic tendencies tend to feel their own feelings very acutely, and others not at all. But does her ability to feel pain impact on my choices? No. But then, nor were her choices impacted by the pain she inflicted on others. People shape their behaviour according to how they imagine it will impact those they care about - not according to how it will impact random others that mean nothing to them.
   
4. hero? have you been reading too many comic books? I don't even own a cape or a stretchy body suit!
   
5. if "the man" was "just poor and all innocent, waiting to be rescued" I wouldn't be remotely interested. I prefer my men to be MEN, not wusses.
   

 

Believe whatever you need to to get you through the day. :lmao:

[OWoman]

---------------------

 

Exactly ... Let's hear it for a little repentance ..

 

repentance is for sinners.

 

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in god, in sin, or in repentance. I'll skip the play date invite for heaven, thanks all the same...

[OWoman]

--------------------------

 

And to add: OW should read - Infidelity Board: "My husband's Emotional Affair" .. to see the Other side of the story ..

 

I think most OWs have had enough of "the other side of the story" thrust down their throats by every conceivable medium since they were barely conscious. I think most of us can make a reasonable guess as to what a generic BW might feel. I can also make a reasonable guess as to what a banker might feel at the threat of having their bonus trimmed - but that's not going to change my views on the political economy, nor shift the way I vote in elections.

[silktricks]

I so agree. The pages of LS are filled with with BSs who knew something was amiss, something was strained, but had no idea of the WS's cheating because the WS NEVER told them HOW unhappy they were!

 

Yes, a lack of integrity, but maybe more importantly the character traits of conflict avoidance and poor communication skills are supposedly inherent in those who step outside of marital boundaries.

 

To be fair - I doubt that many WS have never attempted to tell their spouse they are unhappy. But poor communication skills and conflict avoidance are not just the character traits of the betrayer, they are often also the traits of the betrayed.

 

It's easy to say "he/she never TOLD me", but usually (certainly not always) that's not completely true. Would it be better if the unhappy person sat down their spouse and said "listen. I'm f*cking miserable here, and if things don't change I'm either going to divorce you or have an affair". But things don't work that way.

 

Usually a person is first happy, then the happiness begins to diminish, then they kind of get into the everyday zone, then they become a little unhappy. By the time they're really "aware" of being unhappy, all of the daily stuff has overwhelmed them. Sometimes they probably don't even know how unhappy they WERE until they are actually beginning an affair.

 

And it's not that this is the "fault" of the betrayed person, either. It's just symptomatic of how everyday people deal (or rather don't deal) with everyday occurrences. Not very many people think of themselves as someone who would be open to an affair, but everyday we put ourselves into "harms way" simply by the nature of living our lives. We don't want to complain, so we don't. We stuff how we feel, and it sneaks up on us. One day something pops.

 

It's a wonder that there aren't even more affairs.

[sally4sara]

You need to preface this with "according to you". Your opinion is based on the above the person affaired down. None of the parties may actually agree with you. Shoot I have seen on the other Infidelity boards where the BS said they affaired up.

 

Also the part bolded, how do you know that the BS has interpersonal relationship intergrity? Is that only based on sexual fidelity? What does that term mean?

 

Also the past part, the AP is settling but the BS is not. If there is a dday and the BS takes back the WS is that not settling? They know they have been untrue but still chose the individual again. Also what if the BS had been a WS at some point, what then?

 

And lastly if a couple is separated but not yet legally divorced, what about a relationship during that time period?

 

Any time someone reads my post and asks for clarification it is OF COURSE according to me - it was my post being inquired about. My views are not simply my views because it puts YOU in a bad light. I'm not talking about YOU. You pointing out the obvious only makes you seem like you are unresolved about your actions concerning the subject and taking my posts personally. I don't know you.

But no, it is not just about sexual fidelity when I speak of having more integrity. It is that they didn't get the relationship with their heel on the neck of someone else.

If the BS takes the WS back then yeah, they are settling for less too if there is no indication that the WS will stop. If the WS stops with the AP, the relationship being presented to the BS is the one they agreed on to begin with. Your attitude here is that you feel the BS would be stepping in the AP's relationship by staying with their spouse. LOL .

If the MP is living under another roof and in process of seeking divorce, they don't have the invested relationship for someone else to step into.

And if the BS is a wayward spouse I don't feel that poor actions can be justified by past poor actions of the same being done to them.

[OWoman]

To be fair - I doubt that many WS have never attempted to tell their spouse they are unhappy. But poor communication skills and conflict avoidance are not just the character traits of the betrayer, they are often also the traits of the betrayed.

 

It's easy to say "he/she never TOLD me", but usually (certainly not always) that's not completely true. Would it be better if the unhappy person sat down their spouse and said "listen. I'm f*cking miserable here, and if things don't change I'm either going to divorce you or have an affair". But things don't work that way.

 

Usually a person is first happy, then the happiness begins to diminish, then they kind of get into the everyday zone, then they become a little unhappy. By the time they're really "aware" of being unhappy, all of the daily stuff has overwhelmed them. Sometimes they probably don't even know how unhappy they WERE until they are actually beginning an affair.

 

And it's not that this is the "fault" of the betrayed person, either. It's just symptomatic of how everyday people deal (or rather don't deal) with everyday occurrences. Not very many people think of themselves as someone who would be open to an affair, but everyday we put ourselves into "harms way" simply by the nature of living our lives. We don't want to complain, so we don't. We stuff how we feel, and it sneaks up on us. One day something pops.

 

It's a wonder that there aren't even more affairs.

 

Silk - this is indeed so in many cases.

 

I think the "benefit" of having had experience of an A, for both BSs recovering their M and APs building an R after an A, is that one is aware of that dynamic, and vigilant towards things like that that might develop.

[NoIDidn't]

Boy did this thread go off-topic. LOL.

 

The convo is still great, though.

[Got it]

Any time someone reads my post and asks for clarification it is OF COURSE according to me - it was my post being inquired about. My views are not simply my views because it puts YOU in a bad light. I'm not talking about YOU. You pointing out the obvious only makes you seem like you are unresolved about your actions concerning the subject and taking my posts personally. I don't know you.

But no, it is not just about sexual fidelity when I speak of having more integrity. It is that they didn't get the relationship with their heel on the neck of someone else.

If the BS takes the WS back then yeah, they are settling for less too if there is no indication that the WS will stop. If the WS stops with the AP, the relationship being presented to the BS is the one they agreed on to begin with. Your attitude here is that you feel the BS would be stepping in the AP's relationship by staying with their spouse. LOL .

If the MP is living under another roof and in process of seeking divorce, they don't have the invested relationship for someone else to step into.

And if the BS is a wayward spouse I don't feel that poor actions can be justified by past poor actions of the same being done to them.

 

Nope! Never thought it was about me. And no I have zero unresolved issues with any action on my part.

 

In the bolded - no that is not what I meant. What I was saying was since the agreement in the relationship has already been broken is not already too late to then try and reconcile? Isn't the BS settling for less than based on the EMR? The EMR was disrespectful to that individual, I think we all agree upon that, so by okaying a continuing relationship with the WS isn't it showing an okaying of the previous behaviour?

 

Okay but wouldn't both parties, if both had affairs show a lack of interpersonal intergrity? And if not why? Does one get voided out after a certain amount of time?

 

I said you should preface with according to you because you stated it as if it were a fact. Which it is not. So just clarifying that. I guess you are asking the reader to assume and . . . well, you now what assuming does.

 

I am just trying to understand the interpersonal intergrity piece a little better.

[silktricks]

What I was saying was since the agreement in the relationship has already been broken is not already too late to then try and reconcile? Isn't the BS settling for less than based on the EMR? The EMR was disrespectful to that individual, I think we all agree upon that, so by okaying a continuing relationship with the WS isn't it showing an okaying of the previous behaviour?

 

 

I think people get a little too caught up in the argument whenever discussing EMRs, because obviously there is no one answer fits all. IN MY OPINION - assuming that once the EMR is either over or discovered the MP wishes to remain in the marriage, the BS may or may not be "settling" to do so.

 

For some BS, once an EMR happens, there is no possibility of reconciliation. Their injury is unrecoverable. If they were to stay in the relationship, REGARDLESS of the amount of sorrow/remorse/whatever the MP showed, they would be "settling" if they stayed.

 

For some BS, because the MP is not remorseful, doesn't show contrition, etc... they would be "settling" to remain in the marriage. Not necessarily by virtue of their OWN inability to forgive, but rather because the MP simply doesn't (or cannot) do/feel what is required to recover a marriage fully.

 

However, there is a 3rd group, where the BS is capable of forgiveness AND the MP desperately wants to be forgiven. When both BS and MP put everything they have into recovering their marriage, then neither is "settling" to stay in the marriage.

 

Everyone at some time or another does something "bad" in their lives. Religious people call it sinning, non-religious usually say "made a mistake" (which has the added benefit of not sounding very bad ). In a marriage an EMR is right up there on the badness scale, though. It's not up to anyone outside of the marriage to judge the "rightness" or "wrongness" of a couple choosing to recover their marriage. When an OW/OM says the BS is "settling" to stay with the person they love it sounds a bit like sour grapes to me. It certainly does NOT mean the BS has in any way condoned the previous bad behavior. It hopefully means the BS is either in the process of or has completely forgiven the marriage partner for that behavior, though.

[NoIDidn't]

What I was saying was since the agreement in the relationship has already been broken is not already too late to then try and reconcile? Isn't the BS settling for less than based on the EMR? The EMR was disrespectful to that individual, I think we all agree upon that, so by okaying a continuing relationship with the WS isn't it showing an okaying of the previous behaviour?

 

This does, in fact, sound like the OW is banking on the W (the marriage) dumping the MM because of the "broken" marriage, the A.

 

It does sound like the OW is there because the guy is married and likely that marriage won't weather the A because of the disrespect, the "settling".

 

Again, everything in this forum is nothing but a circular argument. Why isn't the OW settling for the MM?

 

But this question does, in fact, sound like the OW is banking on the marriage being broken in order to get the man that she wants.

[Got it]

Okay. Maybe but I wouldn't say always.

 

Also there is this idea here that all OP want the MP to leave. That is not the case. Many are quite happy with the status quo.

 

Also, and I know others will argue, any MP that is cheating is not in a healthy marriage. Not saying it is always tied to the BS, they may be "giving" as much healthy actions as possible but the partnership is not healthy if the MP is cheating.

 

 

But back to the question, that questions was after dday and was not indicating the OP was still in the picture. But just the fact that the MP would find another, isn't that settling? And I am not saying necessarily saying settling is a bad thing. And yes I would agree the OP may have a wide range of settling in the relationship with the MP (depending on the relationship and the two parties involved).

 

What I found interesting was the idea of interpersonal relationship intergrity and it being a black and white thing.

 

 

t/j Cheating is a coping mechanism, a not very good or effective/healthy coping mechanism. There are lots of coping mechanisms that are not healthy that someone can do in a marriage and some that I consider just as bad as cheating but, it is a skill that one decides to utilize. What is interesting is WHY it is first utilize and why the person continues to do it instead of addressing other issues.

[OWoman]

And to add: OW should read - Infidelity Board: "My husband's Emotional Affair" .. to see the Other side of the story ..

 

OK, I read it. I'm not sure what the point of the referral was supposed to be - to create the impression that BWs are weak, clingy messed-up women with no self-esteem who can't conceive of a life without a H who clearly no longer values the M? To show the OW how desperately the BW wants to forgive the H, and hold the "evil" OW responsible for the H's loss of interest in the BW and the M? To prove to the OW that everything the MM says about the BW being unbalanced, unable to survive without him, disturbed, clingy, etc, is true?

[NoIDidn't]

OK, I read it. I'm not sure what the point of the referral was supposed to be - to create the impression that BWs are weak, clingy messed-up women with no self-esteem who can't conceive of a life without a H who clearly no longer values the M? To show the OW how desperately the BW wants to forgive the H, and hold the "evil" OW responsible for the H's loss of interest in the BW and the M? To prove to the OW that everything the MM says about the BW being unbalanced, unable to survive without him, disturbed, clingy, etc, is true?

 

How insulting! That poster poured out her heart about what was going on in her M while her H cheated on her, and this is all you could come up with?

 

What a heartless view. Sometimes saying nothing is better than putting your real thoughts out there.

 

:sick:

[silktricks]

Also there is this idea here that all OP want the MP to leave. That is not the case. Many are quite happy with the status quo.

it does seem that many are happy with the "status quo", but it also appears that even those who are happy the MM has not left his wife, they do have the prevailing attitude that theirs is the primary relationship - or at least the only relationship that actually worth anything "real".

 

Also, and I know others will argue, any MP that is cheating is not in a healthy marriage. Not saying it is always tied to the BS, they may be "giving" as much healthy actions as possible but the partnership is not healthy if the MP is cheating.

I don't think anyone would ever argue that statement. Unless it's an open marriage, the marriage is not healthy if either partner is having an intimate relationship with someone else.

 

 

But back to the question, that questions was after dday and was not indicating the OP was still in the picture. But just the fact that the MP would find another, isn't that settling? And I am not saying necessarily saying settling is a bad thing. And yes I would agree the OP may have a wide range of settling in the relationship with the MP (depending on the relationship and the two parties involved).

And as I said in my above post - sometimes it would be settling - depending upon both the BS and the MP post affair. But, if both parties put their ALL into fixing their relationship - making it at least as good as it was in the beginning, and often better than it ever had been - I'd give an emphatic NO - it's not settling in any way.

 

 

t/j Cheating is a coping mechanism, a not very good or effective/healthy coping mechanism. There are lots of coping mechanisms that are not healthy that someone can do in a marriage and some that I consider just as bad as cheating but, it is a skill that one decides to utilize. What is interesting is WHY it is first utilize and why the person continues to do it instead of addressing other issues.

That is an interesting point, and one probably worthy of an entire thread... there are undoubtedly many reasons, but as you say, there are many things that can go wrong in a relationship - cheating is only one of them - and frankly, I'm not even sure it's the worst thing.

[White Flower]

It is easier to accept the fact that you contribute the divorce and wife's pain and you steal a man if you paint the wife one dimentional --all black, a mean nazi who doesn't have much feeling in her and possibly won't feel pain, nothing good come out of her, isn't it? paint self as a hero at the same time, and the man is just poor and all innocent, wait to be rescued

OWoman didn't steal anyone. Her H exercised his free will and did the work himself to get counseling and D. Educated as he is, I'm sure she couldn't (and wouldn't) conjure up any magic spells to lure him away as he is not weak.

 

---------------------

 

Exactly ... Let's hear it for a little repentance .

For what? All these adults made adult decisions according to their own free will. Nobody forced anybody to do anything they didn't want to do.

 

OK, I read it. I'm not sure what the point of the referral was supposed to be - to create the impression that BWs are weak, clingy messed-up women with no self-esteem who can't conceive of a life without a H who clearly no longer values the M? To show the OW how desperately the BW wants to forgive the H, and hold the "evil" OW responsible for the H's loss of interest in the BW and the M? To prove to the OW that everything the MM says about the BW being unbalanced, unable to survive without him, disturbed, clingy, etc, is true?

 

How insulting! That poster poured out her heart about what was going on in her M while her H cheated on her, and this is all you could come up with?

 

What a heartless view. Sometimes saying nothing is better than putting your real thoughts out there.

 

:sick:

 

Insulting to whom? The MM and the OW is what I take from this. Perhaps you are offended that the delivery comes from [OWoman paraphrasing] the BW?

 

If you read the conversation in its entire context one can see the point OWoman was making. She answered her opponents.

[OWoman]

How insulting! That poster poured out her heart about what was going on in her M while her H cheated on her' date=' and this is all you could come up with?[/quote']

 

No it's not - but that (what I "could come up with") would be more appropriate on that person's thread - not here, as an abstract discussion of the potential learnings from that situation.

 

Which was actually my point - I was asking Califnan why she was pushing OWs to look at that particular thread. To my mind, it illustrated many of the stereotypes that WSs (allegedly - I have no first-hand knowledge of this; I'm merely going by what's claimed here at LS) put out about the BW. Which is why it struck me as odd that Califnan should choose that thread to point OWs to.

 

Perhaps Califnan could explain her motivation for doing so, or perhaps someone else could try to guess what she may have intended, but as a fOW who read that thread, I really didn't get the point of the referral.

 

What a heartless view. Sometimes saying nothing is better than putting your real thoughts out there.

 

Posting an analytical assessment on another thread about the dynamic revealed elsewhere is IMO a lot less heartless than posting ON THE THREAD of someone seeking support, telling them they're evil, broken, deserve what they get, or whatever other kind of bashing seems de rigeur here. This thread is not for support, it's for discussion - or did that suddenly change?

[Got it]

it does seem that many are happy with the "status quo", but it also appears that even those who are happy the MM has not left his wife, they do have the prevailing attitude that theirs is the primary relationship - or at least the only relationship that actually worth anything "real".

 

I don't think anyone would ever argue that statement. Unless it's an open marriage, the marriage is not healthy if either partner is having an intimate relationship with someone else.

 

 

And as I said in my above post - sometimes it would be settling - depending upon both the BS and the MP post affair. But, if both parties put their ALL into fixing their relationship - making it at least as good as it was in the beginning, and often better than it ever had been - I'd give an emphatic NO - it's not settling in any way.

 

 

 

That is an interesting point, and one probably worthy of an entire thread... there are undoubtedly many reasons, but as you say, there are many things that can go wrong in a relationship - cheating is only one of them - and frankly, I'm not even sure it's the worst thing.

 

silk - Not quite as handy with the quoting so bear with me.

 

1. I agree but I also think it is perception of the beholder. The OP may feel they are the primary, the BS thinks they are the primary but really how much of that matters? In either case it may be true but it does not explain or dictate what the WP is doing and why they are doing it.

 

2. I can't argue your point on settling. It is definitely a case by case basis, I just think the scenerio you described is sorely in the minority. Unfortunately there is very little black and white behaviour. Usually just a lot of waffling in the middle. And, to be honest, that is where I have trouble understanding even my sMM. I left after a few weeks. While I understood his fears, they are just that, fears, and does not excuse fence sitting. Unfortunately fear of the unknown and just laziness seems to be the prevailing reasons for most of human action.

 

3. My last point is really why I think cheating is an interesting human action. The cheating gets so much of the focus but looking at the underlying reasons is really the crux of it. Why one chooses that is the most important question. That is something I pondered and reflected on a lot in my own case. How and why did I get to that point, what need did it fill, why did I decide that is the "best" option, and if I don't like it as a coping mechanism, what do I need to address to put in another one in its place.