dreamingoftigers Posted March 27, 2010 Posted March 27, 2010 " Poor judgement", "disrespecting me", "clearly in the wrong", All of this over a couple of weekends of golf? Guess what? People screw up all the time, even in marriage. Big deal her availability means you can't play with your little friends for a couple days. Put on your big boy boots so you can drive your girl to work so she can have some time with adults. Is she abusing you? Is she cheating on you? Does she never do anything for you? None of the above? Shall I dial Nine-wah-wah for you?
JustLooking123 Posted March 27, 2010 Posted March 27, 2010 Gerhard, I've read most of your other threads, and honestly, sometimes it's hard to tell who's crazier, your or your wife. In this case, however, give the poor woman a break! She actually made the effort to find a job (not an easy task in this economy), and chose weekends BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT THEY'D BE EASIER FOR YOU. In return, she gets your controlling, put-upon attitude? Guilt trips about poor poor you having to "schlep" her around? Jeez louise, grow up and be supportive.
2sunny Posted March 28, 2010 Posted March 28, 2010 i'm waiting for the day when gerhard admits to being a control freak as much as his wife. all of these are no win situations for either of you G. i'm not even sure why you continue this battle with her over and over and over again. at this point tell her to find her own ride - you don't want to do it so why should you. see what she comes up with as far as a solution. maybe the little princess will learn how to walk to work. she does have two legs, right?
Author Gerhard Posted April 8, 2010 Author Posted April 8, 2010 Gerhard, I've read most of your other threads, and honestly, sometimes it's hard to tell who's crazier, your or your wife. In this case, however, give the poor woman a break! She actually made the effort to find a job (not an easy task in this economy), and chose weekends BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT THEY'D BE EASIER FOR YOU. In return, she gets your controlling, put-upon attitude? Guilt trips about poor poor you having to "schlep" her around? Jeez louise, grow up and be supportive. It wasn't so much what days of the week she chose. It was that she didn't consult with me first. As my interest in supporting her desire to work outweighs a little disrespect on her part (in not talking with me first), I've chosen to give up my weekends to schlep her around. I'm guessing what happened is she would have liked to contact me, but was afraid to tell her employer that she would have to get back to them later with her availability.
whichwayisup Posted April 9, 2010 Posted April 9, 2010 So, how about an update? How are things going? Seems you're quite resentful that you had to give up your weekends to schlep her (wife) around. Guess her asking a friend or othe relatives to help out abit isn't going to happen? Anyway, I wish you luck Ger. The job thing is the least of your problems.. It's only a matter of time before things fall apart because you two have two different mindsets and beliefs, the dynamic is unhealthy.
Author Gerhard Posted April 20, 2010 Author Posted April 20, 2010 So, how about an update? How are things going? Seems you're quite resentful that you had to give up your weekends to schlep her (wife) around. Guess her asking a friend or othe relatives to help out abit isn't going to happen? Anyway, I wish you luck Ger. The job thing is the least of your problems.. It's only a matter of time before things fall apart because you two have two different mindsets and beliefs, the dynamic is unhealthy. Thanks for asking. I've been toying with the idea of leaving her to find her own transportation. But if her friends have to drive her around on my days off, then it makes me look bad. However, she has also threatened to quit if I don't drive her to/from work. Other than the issue of disrespecting me when it comes to not contacting me first before making decisions which affect my free time, the only issue still a problem is her greediness and her calling me cheap. I've resumed attempts to get her into counseling with me and given her desire to get her license and drive on her own, I am wondering if withholding the driving until we get into counseling together might be a good idea. But I've got to get her into counseling.
sally4sara Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Thanks for asking. I've been toying with the idea of leaving her to find her own transportation. But if her friends have to drive her around on my days off, then it makes me look bad. However, she has also threatened to quit if I don't drive her to/from work. Other than the issue of disrespecting me when it comes to not contacting me first before making decisions which affect my free time, the only issue still a problem is her greediness and her calling me cheap. I've resumed attempts to get her into counseling with me and given her desire to get her license and drive on her own, I am wondering if withholding the driving until we get into counseling together might be a good idea. But I've got to get her into counseling. Will you be contacting her first before witholding the driving? And if she says no, I don't want to affect my learning for this? It seems you want final say in all and cannot conceive of her making decisions. And all for what? Won't her finally learning to drive make this a moot point? Maybe resolving one of your issues would help with having hope of diffusing the others?
mem11363 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 G, This isn't anything a therapist can help with. This is a pure/brute force power struggle over resources. She is trying to bully you into giving her more and more resources. It has nothing to do with what is fair and everything to do with her goal to subjugate you. Because you have resisted for so long, she is working part time now. If you see a therapist who mimics your logical approach she will refuse to go back. If you see someone who buys into her crazy thinking she WILL want to go back. The only real levers with someone like this are extreme: - Simply refusing to discuss a subject with them beyond a certain point/ignoring their comments about it - Threatening divorce/separation The price you are paying for playing in the fountain of youth is that you have to play with a selfish, ill behaved, irrational child. Thanks for asking. I've been toying with the idea of leaving her to find her own transportation. But if her friends have to drive her around on my days off, then it makes me look bad. However, she has also threatened to quit if I don't drive her to/from work. Other than the issue of disrespecting me when it comes to not contacting me first before making decisions which affect my free time, the only issue still a problem is her greediness and her calling me cheap. I've resumed attempts to get her into counseling with me and given her desire to get her license and drive on her own, I am wondering if withholding the driving until we get into counseling together might be a good idea. But I've got to get her into counseling.
dreamingoftigers Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 G, This isn't anything a therapist can help with. This is a pure/brute force power struggle over resources. She is trying to bully you into giving her more and more resources. It has nothing to do with what is fair and everything to do with her goal to subjugate you. Because you have resisted for so long, she is working part time now. If you see a therapist who mimics your logical approach she will refuse to go back. If you see someone who buys into her crazy thinking she WILL want to go back. The only real levers with someone like this are extreme: - Simply refusing to discuss a subject with them beyond a certain point/ignoring their comments about it - Threatening divorce/separation The price you are paying for playing in the fountain of youth is that you have to play with a selfish, ill behaved, irrational child. Any decent counselor should be able to not take sides and find the validity on both arguments. those levers are extreme and unnecessary at this point. Try reading: get the love you deserve
mem11363 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 I totally agree that a kinder, softer approach is a far better approach with someone who understands the concepts of balance and reciprocity. If you read G's prior posts you will discover that his W does not respond well to appeals to reason. She is 20 years younger than he is, and culturally she is wired to extract maximum resources from her mate. That might sound - unkind - but if you read his history you will see that it is accurate. She has literally spent YEARS hammering on him for more money while choosing not to work - they have no kids. When a man who makes X says - the total budget is 85% of X, this allows us to save 15% for retirement - and his W simply refuses to accept that and chooses for a long time not to get a job - what is the "middle ground" a counselor can find? Any decent counselor should be able to not take sides and find the validity on both arguments. those levers are extreme and unnecessary at this point. Try reading: get the love you deserve
Author Gerhard Posted April 21, 2010 Author Posted April 21, 2010 G, This isn't anything a therapist can help with. This is a pure/brute force power struggle over resources. She is trying to bully you into giving her more and more resources. It has nothing to do with what is fair and everything to do with her goal to subjugate you. Because you have resisted for so long, she is working part time now. If you see a therapist who mimics your logical approach she will refuse to go back. If you see someone who buys into her crazy thinking she WILL want to go back. The only real levers with someone like this are extreme: - Simply refusing to discuss a subject with them beyond a certain point/ignoring their comments about it - Threatening divorce/separation The price you are paying for playing in the fountain of youth is that you have to play with a selfish, ill behaved, irrational child. I like your idea of simply refusing to discuss something. I do think that counseling will help - at least to the extent of determining if she and I can function together or the only option is divorce. But until she's willing to go to counseling (what can I do to get her to go?), I like your idea of refusing to discuss things. There are some things she values which I have control over - such as her driving, her use of the computer, giving her money or buying things for her, etc. I have thought about taking one or more of these away until she gets into counseling with me. But only envision her resisting and accusing me of "ruining" her life.
Author Gerhard Posted April 21, 2010 Author Posted April 21, 2010 I totally agree that a kinder, softer approach is a far better approach with someone who understands the concepts of balance and reciprocity. If you read G's prior posts you will discover that his W does not respond well to appeals to reason. She is 20 years younger than he is, and culturally she is wired to extract maximum resources from her mate. That might sound - unkind - but if you read his history you will see that it is accurate. She has literally spent YEARS hammering on him for more money while choosing not to work - they have no kids. When a man who makes X says - the total budget is 85% of X, this allows us to save 15% for retirement - and his W simply refuses to accept that and chooses for a long time not to get a job - what is the "middle ground" a counselor can find? And get this - now that she is working, she insists that she's entitled to keep all the money for herself or send it to her family. She's unwilling to contribute to our budget.
mem11363 Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 G, I am not suggesting you divorce her. By the way - and this is rare - very rare but when it has happened after I tell my wife that a topic is off limits and she brings it up I don't restate "I don't want to talk about it any more." I simply literally act as if she hasn't said anything. Now I only do this under duress but the way I do it is I lay a solid and rational foundation by telling her: "I wish I could do x y or z but I just cannot. I need you to respect that just as I respect there are things that you can't/won't agree to. If you want to raise this topic again it needs to be in the following manner "because our situation has now changed so drastically I would like to revisit x y z" and if you do that I will engage, listen to your point of view and try to find a way to make this work." However if you bring it up simply as a tactic in a war of attrition I am going to view that as an aggressive act and am simply going to pretend you haven't spoken. If you persist in that conversation I am going to excuse myself from the conversation and go do something else. I don't get mad, I don't raise my voice. I don't attack her or tell her she is being selfish or mean or whatever. I simply define my boundaries and then defend them. I think I have only had to do this 2 or 3 times in a 21+ year relationship. Because I only do this after many, many repetitions of a particular topic. I actually am patient, just not doormatish. So at the point where I feel that she has crossed the line separating tenacity from emotional terrorism the special weapons and tactics arsenal comes out of the chest. This approach did the trick each time I used it - but if I had a W with a very convenient memory I would email her whenever we reached the point of no more talking about a topic so that later she couldn't flip out and claim I was being a jerk etc. And get this - now that she is working, she insists that she's entitled to keep all the money for herself or send it to her family. She's unwilling to contribute to our budget.
2sunny Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 why would you expect anything different from your wife? she's selfish! she will do whatever SHE wants... she has proved that time and again. accept it or leave her. she looks out only for herself... and you look out for only you. this is the most selfish marriage arrangement i've ever heard of. see it for what it really is and stop pretending like it's ever going to be even halfway reasonable, loving or giving and unselfish. given any decision - you both decide in a selfish manner every time. usually a selfish person marries an unselfish person - you two are mis matched. buy her a damn bus pass and let her figure out how to get around. you know when she gets her license she's going to demand you to buy her a car too! :rolleyes: expect that. just keep getting her nothing but a bus pass or a bicycle for the selfish woman.
xxoo Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 And get this - now that she is working, she insists that she's entitled to keep all the money for herself or send it to her family. She's unwilling to contribute to our budget. Her family needs money? So you married a young women, 20 years your junior, from a poor family in a foreign country. And you are surprised that she wants money? You are surprised that she is sending money she earns to her family? There is a reason that young women marry older foreign men. The reason is money. She trades her youth and beauty for your money--for both her and her family. Did you not see this coming?
Author Gerhard Posted April 22, 2010 Author Posted April 22, 2010 G, I am not suggesting you divorce her. By the way - and this is rare - very rare but when it has happened after I tell my wife that a topic is off limits and she brings it up I don't restate "I don't want to talk about it any more." I simply literally act as if she hasn't said anything. Now I only do this under duress but the way I do it is I lay a solid and rational foundation by telling her: "I wish I could do x y or z but I just cannot. I need you to respect that just as I respect there are things that you can't/won't agree to. If you want to raise this topic again it needs to be in the following manner "because our situation has now changed so drastically I would like to revisit x y z" and if you do that I will engage, listen to your point of view and try to find a way to make this work." However if you bring it up simply as a tactic in a war of attrition I am going to view that as an aggressive act and am simply going to pretend you haven't spoken. If you persist in that conversation I am going to excuse myself from the conversation and go do something else. I don't get mad, I don't raise my voice. I don't attack her or tell her she is being selfish or mean or whatever. I simply define my boundaries and then defend them. I think I have only had to do this 2 or 3 times in a 21+ year relationship. Because I only do this after many, many repetitions of a particular topic. I actually am patient, just not doormatish. So at the point where I feel that she has crossed the line separating tenacity from emotional terrorism the special weapons and tactics arsenal comes out of the chest. This approach did the trick each time I used it - but if I had a W with a very convenient memory I would email her whenever we reached the point of no more talking about a topic so that later she couldn't flip out and claim I was being a jerk etc. I like your approach or saying very little or nothing at all. I use the same email tactic as you do, but my wife refuses to discuss things via email because she knows she can manipulate me if I don't have time to gather my thoughts.
2sunny Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 because she knows she can manipulate me if I don't have time to gather my thoughts. if you never engage when she behaves this way, manipulation will never happen. be proactive and respond with "i'll get back to you on that later" do not respond or engage when emotions are high or if she is pressuring you. just.do.not. - ever!
mem11363 Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 Some people are inherently quick on their feet - others not so much. And some are good at creating emotion/tension and gaining the upper hand by doing so. You can usually defeat the "speed chess" game that she plays by doing a few things: - Slowing down the game by forcing her to repeat - you can paraphrase what she said and ask her "are you saying that .....?" - Saying "I think I understand you, let me think about that" And then go away, and draft an email to her. Even if you don't send it, it will clarify your thoughts. You can just use bullet points - easier to remember. That way when you get back to her you are totally prepared. Don't let her force an artificial sense of urgency on you unless the house is on fire..... I like your approach or saying very little or nothing at all. I use the same email tactic as you do, but my wife refuses to discuss things via email because she knows she can manipulate me if I don't have time to gather my thoughts.
mem11363 Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 I missed your post - you said this perfectly if you never engage when she behaves this way, manipulation will never happen. be proactive and respond with "i'll get back to you on that later" do not respond or engage when emotions are high or if she is pressuring you. just.do.not. - ever!
SarahRose Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 G, I am not suggesting you divorce her. By the way - and this is rare - very rare but when it has happened after I tell my wife that a topic is off limits and she brings it up I don't restate "I don't want to talk about it any more." I simply literally act as if she hasn't said anything. Now I only do this under duress but the way I do it is I lay a solid and rational foundation by telling her: "I wish I could do x y or z but I just cannot. I need you to respect that just as I respect there are things that you can't/won't agree to. If you want to raise this topic again it needs to be in the following manner "because our situation has now changed so drastically I would like to revisit x y z" and if you do that I will engage, listen to your point of view and try to find a way to make this work." However if you bring it up simply as a tactic in a war of attrition I am going to view that as an aggressive act and am simply going to pretend you haven't spoken. If you persist in that conversation I am going to excuse myself from the conversation and go do something else. I don't get mad, I don't raise my voice. I don't attack her or tell her she is being selfish or mean or whatever. I simply define my boundaries and then defend them. I think I have only had to do this 2 or 3 times in a 21+ year relationship. Because I only do this after many, many repetitions of a particular topic. I actually am patient, just not doormatish. So at the point where I feel that she has crossed the line separating tenacity from emotional terrorism the special weapons and tactics arsenal comes out of the chest. This approach did the trick each time I used it - but if I had a W with a very convenient memory I would email her whenever we reached the point of no more talking about a topic so that later she couldn't flip out and claim I was being a jerk etc. Just wondering how you would respond if someone did that to you?
SarahRose Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 Her family needs money? So you married a young women, 20 years your junior, from a poor family in a foreign country. And you are surprised that she wants money? You are surprised that she is sending money she earns to her family? There is a reason that young women marry older foreign men. The reason is money. She trades her youth and beauty for your money--for both her and her family. Did you not see this coming? I guess they think they are getting their submissive foreign child bride fantasy!
Els Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 Her family needs money? So you married a young women, 20 years your junior, from a poor family in a foreign country. And you are surprised that she wants money? You are surprised that she is sending money she earns to her family? There is a reason that young women marry older foreign men. The reason is money. She trades her youth and beauty for your money--for both her and her family. Did you not see this coming? I agree with this. It's hilarious how men marry foreign women half their age on purpose (as in, they didn't just fall in love with a woman who happened to be that)... and then cry 'she's using me for my money!'. Well guess what, dude, you're using her for her youth, beauty, and presumed exoticism/submissiveness. Nobody deserves to cry wolf here.
whichwayisup Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 There are some things she values which I have control over - such as her driving, her use of the computer, giving her money or buying things for her, etc. I have thought about taking one or more of these away until she gets into counseling with me. But only envision her resisting and accusing me of "ruining" her life. This doesn't sound like you "like" let alone love her that much. It's a parent/child 'marriage', not a man/woman, husband/wife kind of marriage. AT ALL. Sounds like you have some serious control issues! Maybe the best thing to do is divorce. The age difference, the disrespect, the resentments, control issues, the whole dynamtic of your marriage is just unhealthy. I'm sure she's miserable like you are.
CarrieT Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 There are some things she values which I have control over - such as her driving, her use of the computer, giving her money or buying things for her, etc. I have thought about taking one or more of these away until she gets into counseling with me. But only envision her resisting and accusing me of "ruining" her life. I am just flabbergasted that one person has CONTROL over another person in regards to things like driving and money and computers. Aren't marriages supposed to be partnerships with shared responsibilities and resources? I can't even conceive of what kind of marriage you people have where one person is so pervasive over another.
soserious1 Posted April 22, 2010 Posted April 22, 2010 Gerhard, Your wife overstepped her bounds by presuming to commit your time without asking you first. I would simply tell her that you are offended that she did this, and let her know that getting herself/to and fro her job is her responsibility as is working things out with her prospective employer. The title "spouse" doesn't make a person their partner's slave that she did this without so much as a quick phone call to consult you speaks volumes to me about how very little she respects you. IMHO, a long and very serious talk is in order here.
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