OWs - when to stay, when to leave

[JustJoe]

The capacity of some OP's to delude themselves into thinking that they are somehow"empowered ", by being a sidedish, is breathtaking. In MOST A's, the OP gets a relationship significantly less profound tha an exclusive one. And before I get beat on, I KNOW that there are exceptions, I'm talking about the VAST majority. Yes, a few OM/OW"s are OK with what they get, but in ALL affairs, the operative relationship is the WS"s marriage. If it weren't so, they wouldn't be affairs, would they?

[2sure]

I agree with you Joe , when you say the "operative" relationship is the marriage. Whether it is good or bad, really.

 

I said once before that comparing an affair relationship to a marriage relationship is like comparing baby sitting your favorite niece to being a full time mom.

 

And I add: My daughter , if given the choice, would spend the day with her Aunt rather than me. Sometimes, I feel like chopped liver. But I never worry about it because I'm her mother. I'm not always as much fun, but I'm always way more important. For the real stuff, she will always come to me.

[JustJoe]

2sure, I agree completely. I just phrased it wrong. I really didn't mean "leftovers", I meant less encompassing or less definitive.

[Confused4Now]

I guess with the EMR I learned more about living and loving for the Present. That the past has already happened, there is no controls over the future so all we have is today.

There is a great book but the guy who wrote "Who moved my Cheese" called " The Greatest Present" (or something like that) that addresses the above. Great book, actually both are fabulous books. Learning to live life to the fullest and appreciate and love those around you. That you must invest to get anything back and to stop living life by fear.

This is so spot on... I had posted a topic regarding the Do's, Dont's and the Never's. For me the focus is on today was a Do... reliving the past is a don't and talking about or looking into the future was a never. So enjoy TODAY and the Present. It's always about minimizing the anxieties for what you are in.

[Got it]

I agree with you Joe , when you say the "operative" relationship is the marriage. Whether it is good or bad, really.

 

I said once before that comparing an affair relationship to a marriage relationship is like comparing baby sitting your favorite niece to being a full time mom.

 

And I add: My daughter , if given the choice, would spend the day with her Aunt rather than me. Sometimes, I feel like chopped liver. But I never worry about it because I'm her mother. I'm not always as much fun, but I'm always way more important. For the real stuff, she will always come to me.

 

I disagree. My marriage and my EMR were not that different in regards to importance and involvement. Now I knew my (then) husband 7 years prior to marriage so that by default gave me more knowledge in regards to him. But I found it almost identical to when I was dating him and my EMR.

 

Different strokes for different folks. But I have probably always known more about the minutes of sMM's life than most couples do in general. We just have always had a lot of involvement.

 

re: your daughter. Of course that would be the case. That is a blood relationship. A marriage and other romantic relationships are based on voluntary choice so it can be a here today gone tomorrow. That is a relationship that default will always have a connection.

 

A romantic relationship varies more about what each party is contributing to the union on a daily basis. We will always re evaluate romantic relationships to make sure they are fitting our needs. That is why I believe that it is a complete falsehood for someone to say true love is not selfish. Romantic love, by it's very nature, is selfish. A romantic relationship is fluid in its connectivity. That is why there is talk about Love Banks, Love Languages, etc. It is about what each party is investing each day. And why, for me, a marital status or even another love does not alway negate the another relationship. We can love others for different reasons. Some people can be in love with multiple people. It is about the decided boundaries and agreements that plays the factor.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Got it

[fooled once]

Hi WF - I do understand what you are saying, my MM was originally that for me, and it worked for I would say the first 6 to 8 months or so. I think at the beginning it was very 2 sided - I think I was sort of cake eating myself and so was he, so it worked out. The love is what screwed it up for me, the wanting to change that part time to full time. So I suppose OW is correct, if you become unhappy in the relationship or are no longer getting what you need change it. Do I wish he chose me - yup. Did he - nope! So maybe i'm just bitter. Who knows. End of the day, I knew I could no longer be last on his list. Now I'm off it completely.

 

You are NOT bitter EO, you are smart. You decided you weren't getting what YOU deserve/wanted and it ended. YOU chose to want MORE for yourself. YOU chose to not be someone's part time when you wanted full time. YOU decided to not listen to his bull**** anymore. YOU decided ENOUGH.

 

That doesn't make you bitter. Bitter would be continuing to be someone's 2nd when you want to be their 1st. Don't ever call yourself bitter because you didn't get the guy or let anyone else call you bitter. YOU want MORE -- and there is NO shame in that. I think if people were truly honest with themselves, there are very few people who only want part time. Sure, there are some who say that is fine, but you also see those people implying things are going to change...if they just wait. Maybe, maybe not. But you decided for YOU, no more waiting for "one day". Or for the MM to "give it another shot" in his marriage. You aren't waiting around for anyone and THAT means you are living your life the way YOU WANT it and not on anyone else's time table. GOOD FOR YOU!!

 

As for the Original Post, I actually agree with it LOL I don't think any person should ever put up with LESS when they want MORE and every WOMAN/MAN should demand respect, equality and to come 'out of the closet' so to speak and be free to love openly and without fear of being caught. Anything less, for those in love and who want fulltime, is short changing themselves.

 

We never know when our life is over, don't ever live it with regrets.

[crazycatlady]

You are NOT bitter EO, you are smart. You decided you weren't getting what YOU deserve/wanted and it ended. YOU chose to want MORE for yourself. YOU chose to not be someone's part time when you wanted full time. YOU decided to not listen to his bull**** anymore. YOU decided ENOUGH.

 

That doesn't make you bitter. Bitter would be continuing to be someone's 2nd when you want to be their 1st. Don't ever call yourself bitter because you didn't get the guy or let anyone else call you bitter. YOU want MORE -- and there is NO shame in that. I think if people were truly honest with themselves, there are very few people who only want part time. Sure, there are some who say that is fine, but you also see those people implying things are going to change...if they just wait. Maybe, maybe not. But you decided for YOU, no more waiting for "one day". Or for the MM to "give it another shot" in his marriage. You aren't waiting around for anyone and THAT means you are living your life the way YOU WANT it and not on anyone else's time table. GOOD FOR YOU!!

 

As for the Original Post, I actually agree with it LOL I don't think any person should ever put up with LESS when they want MORE and every WOMAN/MAN should demand respect, equality and to come 'out of the closet' so to speak and be free to love openly and without fear of being caught. Anything less, for those in love and who want fulltime, is short changing themselves.

 

We never know when our life is over, don't ever live it with regrets.

 

I love that statement. It works for so much.

[pureinheart]

This may sound very strange to some of you, although I've never felt I had much of a choice in certain things, and was easily manipulated by that very known statement that is used to justify a desire to never change and guilt trip a person when they do change their mind: you knew what you were getting into...by this statement I felt I didn't have the right to change my mind or be me...

 

It wasn't until reading some of the other posters that I realised this was a manipulation tactic...

[Fallen Angel]

So many OWs post asking whether they should stay in the A, or leave. Or, how to leave. Or - they wish they could leave. Or... will he leave?

 

I think As are no different to any other R. If it's not working for you, why are you there? Staying in a R that is doing you more harm than good is not sustainable for anyone, long term - and some of the damage can be pretty severe, if you read some of the threads here. So - if it's not working for you - leave.

 

For some people, the A is adequate. Perhaps not optimal (though the A clearly is optimal for some people) but better than nothing. They would be happier in the A, although hoping for more, than out of the A. For some people, what they get from the MM (although not as much as they would like) is enough - or, better than not having anything from him, and possibly better than having everything from someone else that they don't fancy in the same way. For some, what they get - with the hope that some day, there may be more - is better than the alternatives. And that's fine - so long as that stays that way. When the negatives start outweighing the positives, it's time to reevaluate and move on.

 

For those that find that it's not enough, though - living in hope that it may change has little point. It might - or it might not. Besides the risk of having wasted all that time should the pay-off never come, there is the very real cost of the day-to-day pain and suffering, the resentment building up over time so that even if he DOES eventually leave, the victory is blighted by the accumulated cost over all that time. At some point, the costs outweigh even the best case scenario benefits for these people - and, at that point, they need to leave.

 

For those who wonder, "how do I leave?", it's quite simple. Tell the MM, using the medium of your choice, that it's no longer working for you, and so you've ended it. Goodbye. Remember - you owe the MM nothing. At least, not your undying loyalty and willingness to wait forever. If you did promise that, you can always claim to have made that undertaking when of unsound mind, as any judge would believe you must have been to make such a promise. All the good times, all the love, all the happiness and hopes - don't chain you into a R that no longer works for you. If you need to go - then go.

 

If you choose to stay - then be sure you're staying for the right reasons. No one gets points for martyrdom. Nor does anyone get points for chucking a perfectly good R simply because some random people on a forum don't like the nature of their R. It's something you need to decide for yourself. Every day. Does the A add something good to your life, beyond any costs it's exacting from you? If not, why are you still there? (And, if it does, enjoy!!)

 

(right - rant over...)

 

I have only read this first post. I will finish reading the thread in just a moment.. first I had to stand and applaud!!! *gives OWoman a standing ovation!* :bunny:

[Fallen Angel]

I get what you're saying OWoman... make your decision on the facts that you know, and stick with the decision that brings you the most happiness.

 

I guess I need a little more stability in my life. Having to get up and make a conscious decision every day of my life whether I wanted to stay in a R or leave, would wear me out. And if, each and every day, you had to make this decision, doesn't that say something? That just doesn't seem sustainable to me. I get all the live each day to the fullest, and living today like there is no tomorrow, but I like to have an idea of where my future is heading.

 

My xMM thought kind of like this. I'd continuously ask him where this was going, and his pat answer would be that he didn't know what was going to be happening 3 days from now, and neither did I, so he couldn't say where it was going. I ultimately figured out this was his cop out for cake eating. I'm sure he had made plans with his wife that extended beyond 3 days, so his arguement didn't really hold water. Ultimately, I decided the unknown wasn't for me, and I left.

 

I think in a healthy relationship you should reevaluate it every day. Thing is, not evaluating your relationship is what gets people stuck in unhealthy, unsatisfying, unfulfilling relationships. People stay because they choose to not do the work of deciding everyday that that is where they want to be in their lives.

 

If you everyday took a look at your spouse or SO and really thought to yourself "I am happy and content and fulfilled here." and made that your reason to stay in the relationship, there would likely be a lot less infedelity taking place. It is when you do not really take the time to make a concious decision to stay that you let all the small annoyances build up to a point of explosion. If you were making a daily reevaluation, you would meet any small bump in the road head on, take care of issues that arrise as they arrise rather than just walking along with your head down ignoring the bigger picture until the road suddenly comes to a dead end.

 

I say, evaluate your relationship regularly, figure out how to cross those hurdles together, and you will be much happier and healthier for it.

[Fallen Angel]

Not sure!

I guess we might be arguing/discussing semantics. For me, there is a difference between making compromises and compromising one' s self. Making compromises is fine but compromising one's self is when boundaries have been crossed.

 

I guess it comes down to the idea of "paying it ahead". A lot of people, in many different relationships, will do x because it will pay off with z down the road. The compromises of x have strings attached for z. When z doesn't happen then those strings cause resentment and more intense anger.

 

I guess with the EMR I learned more about living and loving for the Present. That the past has already happened, there is no controls over the future so all we have is today.

 

There is a great book but the guy who wrote "Who moved my Cheese" called " The Greatest Present" (or something like that) that addresses the above. Great book, actually both are fabulous books. Learning to live life to the fullest and appreciate and love those around you. That you must invest to get anything back and to stop living life by fear.

 

I read that book, I believe it is called simply "The Present". It was actually instrumental in changing my view of my relationship. I was so busy worrying about the destination, that I had forgotten to enjoy the journey. Now i am focused on the journey, confident that the destination will take care of itself.

[pureinheart]

I think in a healthy relationship you should reevaluate it every day. Thing is, not evaluating your relationship is what gets people stuck in unhealthy, unsatisfying, unfulfilling relationships. People stay because they choose to not do the work of deciding everyday that that is where they want to be in their lives.

 

If you everyday took a look at your spouse or SO and really thought to yourself "I am happy and content and fulfilled here." and made that your reason to stay in the relationship, there would likely be a lot less infedelity taking place. It is when you do not really take the time to make a concious decision to stay that you let all the small annoyances build up to a point of explosion. If you were making a daily reevaluation, you would meet any small bump in the road head on, take care of issues that arrise as they arrise rather than just walking along with your head down ignoring the bigger picture until the road suddenly comes to a dead end.

 

I say, evaluate your relationship regularly, figure out how to cross those hurdles together, and you will be much happier and healthier for it.

 

*Gives FA a standing ovation for this reply*....great stuff here FA!

[OWoman]

I think in a healthy relationship you should reevaluate it every day. Thing is, not evaluating your relationship is what gets people stuck in unhealthy, unsatisfying, unfulfilling relationships. People stay because they choose to not do the work of deciding everyday that that is where they want to be in their lives.

 

If you everyday took a look at your spouse or SO and really thought to yourself "I am happy and content and fulfilled here." and made that your reason to stay in the relationship, there would likely be a lot less infedelity taking place. It is when you do not really take the time to make a concious decision to stay that you let all the small annoyances build up to a point of explosion. If you were making a daily reevaluation, you would meet any small bump in the road head on, take care of issues that arrise as they arrise rather than just walking along with your head down ignoring the bigger picture until the road suddenly comes to a dead end.

 

I say, evaluate your relationship regularly, figure out how to cross those hurdles together, and you will be much happier and healthier for it.

 

Absolutely! Complacency arises too easily out of security, IMO. Knowing why you're in a R, and why you choose to stay there, helps you to appreciate your SO and let them know you value them - and helps keep the R fresh and alive.

[JustJoe]

Owoman, I agree with this. A relationship needs constant maintenance, constant re-evaluation, and constant improvement.