OWoman Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 So many OWs post asking whether they should stay in the A, or leave. Or, how to leave. Or - they wish they could leave. Or... will he leave? I think As are no different to any other R. If it's not working for you, why are you there? Staying in a R that is doing you more harm than good is not sustainable for anyone, long term - and some of the damage can be pretty severe, if you read some of the threads here. So - if it's not working for you - leave. For some people, the A is adequate. Perhaps not optimal (though the A clearly is optimal for some people) but better than nothing. They would be happier in the A, although hoping for more, than out of the A. For some people, what they get from the MM (although not as much as they would like) is enough - or, better than not having anything from him, and possibly better than having everything from someone else that they don't fancy in the same way. For some, what they get - with the hope that some day, there may be more - is better than the alternatives. And that's fine - so long as that stays that way. When the negatives start outweighing the positives, it's time to reevaluate and move on. For those that find that it's not enough, though - living in hope that it may change has little point. It might - or it might not. Besides the risk of having wasted all that time should the pay-off never come, there is the very real cost of the day-to-day pain and suffering, the resentment building up over time so that even if he DOES eventually leave, the victory is blighted by the accumulated cost over all that time. At some point, the costs outweigh even the best case scenario benefits for these people - and, at that point, they need to leave. For those who wonder, "how do I leave?", it's quite simple. Tell the MM, using the medium of your choice, that it's no longer working for you, and so you've ended it. Goodbye. Remember - you owe the MM nothing. At least, not your undying loyalty and willingness to wait forever. If you did promise that, you can always claim to have made that undertaking when of unsound mind, as any judge would believe you must have been to make such a promise. All the good times, all the love, all the happiness and hopes - don't chain you into a R that no longer works for you. If you need to go - then go. If you choose to stay - then be sure you're staying for the right reasons. No one gets points for martyrdom. Nor does anyone get points for chucking a perfectly good R simply because some random people on a forum don't like the nature of their R. It's something you need to decide for yourself. Every day. Does the A add something good to your life, beyond any costs it's exacting from you? If not, why are you still there? (And, if it does, enjoy!!) (right - rant over...)
EyesOpened Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Hum - well a few weeks ago, affair goggles still on, I may have agreed with you whole heartedly. However, I see things so differently now, affair goggles happily removed. I used to say that to, that it was ok because he made me happy when I was with him and he gave me so much joy etc., that it was worth not having him full time. That I got more from the relationship in it, then not having it at all. As I've said before I used to tell my MM that having a little bit of him was better than none of him. I see now that I was just trying to convince myself that I was ok with it. When really, I wasn't. Let's be serious, who can ever be ok with being "second fiddle" or the bottom of someones list? And frankly - why should anyone be expected to accept less than all of someone in a relationship? I do know there have been cases where some MM/MW leave, and I actually commend those that do, as they are being true to themselves and to their AP's. I wish my MM would have left for me. He didn't. OWoman - I agree that not all situations are the same however, if the MM or MW truly LOVES their AP, and it's such a great wonderful relationship, why would they not leave their spouse to be with that AP? Accepting anything thing less is well,...just unacceptable!
White Flower Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Hum - well a few weeks ago, affair goggles still on, I may have agreed with you whole heartedly. However, I see things so differently now, affair goggles happily removed. I used to say that to, that it was ok because he made me happy when I was with him and he gave me so much joy etc., that it was worth not having him full time. That I got more from the relationship in it, then not having it at all. As I've said before I used to tell my MM that having a little bit of him was better than none of him. I see now that I was just trying to convince myself that I was ok with it. When really, I wasn't. Let's be serious, who can ever be ok with being "second fiddle" or the bottom of someones list? And frankly - why should anyone be expected to accept less than all of someone in a relationship? I do know there have been cases where some MM/MW leave, and I actually commend those that do, as they are being true to themselves and to their AP's. I wish my MM would have left for me. He didn't. OWoman - I agree that not all situations are the same however, if the MM or MW truly LOVES their AP, and it's such a great wonderful relationship, why would they not leave their spouse to be with that AP? Accepting anything thing less is well,...just unacceptable! But that is YOUR truth because you were hoping, deep down, all along for the happy ending that you never got. What if all you ever wanted was someone on a part-time basis, that fit into your schedule with kids, work, mortgages, friends, etc., and made you happy in that time? I'm not saying this is who I am or what I want but have experienced it that way for many years and those years were the reward in themselves. I have no regrets of the past yet am working on a different future. We have the right to renegotiate our Rs based on how we have changed and grown.
EyesOpened Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Hi WF - I do understand what you are saying, my MM was originally that for me, and it worked for I would say the first 6 to 8 months or so. I think at the beginning it was very 2 sided - I think I was sort of cake eating myself and so was he, so it worked out. The love is what screwed it up for me, the wanting to change that part time to full time. So I suppose OW is correct, if you become unhappy in the relationship or are no longer getting what you need change it. Do I wish he chose me - yup. Did he - nope! So maybe i'm just bitter. Who knows. End of the day, I knew I could no longer be last on his list. Now I'm off it completely.
White Flower Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Hi WF - I do understand what you are saying, my MM was originally that for me, and it worked for I would say the first 6 to 8 months or so. I think at the beginning it was very 2 sided - I think I was sort of cake eating myself and so was he, so it worked out. The love is what screwed it up for me, the wanting to change that part time to full time. So I suppose OW is correct, if you become unhappy in the relationship or are no longer getting what you need change it. Do I wish he chose me - yup. Did he - nope! So maybe i'm just bitter. Who knows. End of the day, I knew I could no longer be last on his list. Now I'm off it completely. Good for you! At least you knew what you wanted and acted on your convictions. If the R could not be renegotiated as you saw fit then it was time for you to get out.
Spark1111 Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 I get what you're saying OWoman... make your decision on the facts that you know, and stick with the decision that brings you the most happiness. I guess I need a little more stability in my life. Having to get up and make a conscious decision every day of my life whether I wanted to stay in a R or leave, would wear me out. And if, each and every day, you had to make this decision, doesn't that say something? That just doesn't seem sustainable to me. I get all the live each day to the fullest, and living today like there is no tomorrow, but I like to have an idea of where my future is heading. This is very similiar to how I, as a BS felt, after my husband begged to reconcile. I had a suitcase packed mentally for a very long time, and it IS an exhausting way to live. There were days of pure bliss, and days of such sorrow, and I often entertained the idea of jumping off the rollercoaster and freeing myself from the emotional turmoil. It does take knowing what you want in a R, but also having two people on the same page working towards it. If one or the other is not ready to give more, and more is wanted, yes, I agree it is time to pull the trigger.
georgia girl Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Amen, OWoman! I see a lot of posters on here looking for someone to tell them what to do. I also see a lot of advice tossed out coming from differing viewpoints. It's almost as if some will argue ALWAYS for a woman to stay and some will argue ALWAYS for a woman to leave. The ultimate truth is that each person has to define for herself (or himself) what they want in a relationship, what's successful for them and how to negotiate with her/his partner the terms of a healthy union. If you do that, my belief is you will be happy and fulfilled in your relationship. To thine own self be true.
Davnnic Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 This is so timely for me...I do get up every day and wonder if this A should continue. My MM has been honest about what he can and can't give to me right now, and that we will be together in the future. However, I don't know about this rollercoaster of wanting more of him and his time, and not being able to ahve it. I too justify my staying by feeling that some of him is better than nothing, but I am a smart, strong woman who is not acting as such in this R. I am settling for a situation that I never dreamed I would...it is terribly draining emotionally, and although I appreciate my MM honesty, I don't like the fact that I am not number one...and not sure how long I can wait to be number one. When I was married, I was content, but now that I am separated and heading for divorce, I am not so content. His time frame to leave his spouse? 1 year after he completes school. That seems far too long, and I know in my head I should leave now before it gets harder, but I just don't want to let go-yet.
White Flower Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Amen, OWoman! I see a lot of posters on here looking for someone to tell them what to do. I also see a lot of advice tossed out coming from differing viewpoints. It's almost as if some will argue ALWAYS for a woman to stay and some will argue ALWAYS for a woman to leave. The ultimate truth is that each person has to define for herself (or himself) what they want in a relationship, what's successful for them and how to negotiate with her/his partner the terms of a healthy union. If you do that, my belief is you will be happy and fulfilled in your relationship. To thine own self be true. Sometimes the varying viewpoints get us to speak our thoughts out loud and for many of us it is only then that we know what we want. I'm sure some people can get confused by it, take advice too much to heart, etc., but for the most part I think it is good to get viewpoints from all over the board. I know it helped me sort my feelings out when I first came here. And for Davnic, I used to hold the view that I was second because I got less time, etc. But when I began looking at the way he makes me feel whether together or apart I began to see it less in terms of placement in his heart. Even after being 'thrown under the bus' (which can often mean 'I need more time to work out a plan') I feel like I am number one in his heart.
Chingaling Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) As with everything else, I think that there is a defining moment when you know when to throw in the towel... but I also think that disappointment plays a large part in being discontented in an A...especially if the MM or MW has led you down the Primrose Path. It would be much better of course if the MP didn't promise the wind, the sun and the moon "someday". But then, part of being the AP is usually not really knowing where you stand. Edited March 25, 2010 by Chingaling pasted wrong!!!
Author OWoman Posted March 25, 2010 Author Posted March 25, 2010 Is this just for OW'S ? or can OM'S play too? It wasn't meant to be exclusive. It's just that that kind of agonising is more characteristic of OWs than OMs. Anyone can play
Got it Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I have always followed my relationships as OWoman stated, when the good outweighs the bad I am in it, when the bad outweighs the good, I walk.
2sure Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Being the OW in an affair should ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY be a good thing for her. If an OW finds herself sacrificing, or inconvenienced, or lonely, or angry .... Why bother?? Sure, sure...true love sometimes requires all of the above but seriously, this is an AFFAIR. I guess its me, but I dont know what there is to figure out. If you are a single OW comfortable dating a MM...you have WAAAAAY more to offer than he does. YOU should not sacrifice anything.
JustJoe Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 IMO, it's all a matter of "balance". I stayed in my affair as long as the balance of experiences with her was pleasurable/useful, and ended it , when the scales tipped, and the A became more stressful and counter-productive.
JustJoe Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 2sure, isn't the fact that we, as OP'S are in an affair at all, the biggest sacrifice? Don't we get the MP' S leftovers? By definition, we are in a relationship with a dishonest person. Dishonest with the BS, true, but also with us. If my MW had been willing to give up her lifestyle, we would have been together as a couple. That's what I mean about balance.
Got it Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 2sure, isn't the fact that we, as OP'S are in an affair at all, the biggest sacrifice? Don't we get the MP' S leftovers? By definition, we are in a relationship with a dishonest person. Dishonest with the BS, true, but also with us. If my MW had been willing to give up her lifestyle, we would have been together as a couple. That's what I mean about balance. Leftovers? What leftovers!?! You weren't setting up your relationship properly, ANY relationship, where you feel you are getting scrapes. I was never getting that. I got everything I asked for because I laid the groundwork in the very beginning. For me it was just like any other relationship. Just because he had to jump through more hoops than a single person was his baby to rock not mine. And how do you know that you and your MW would have been together if she left her husband? There are a lot of component pieces involved in a relationship and her marital status and lifestyle status were only pieces of the bigger picture. It may have given you a oppurtunity to date her as a single person but it is presumptious to think that it would have meant you guys would have been together based soley on that.
2sure Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I got everything I asked for because I laid the groundwork in the very beginning. For me it was just like any other relationship. Just because he had to jump through more hoops than a single person was his baby to rock not mine. See? There ya go.
Got it Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I just don't get that mentality! There seems to be this belief that the married person is doing the favor by having the affair! Um no. Sweetbritches needs to jump through hoops if they are going to be able to eat some cake!
2sure Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I know! Some OW are as bad as some of us BS here , in their capacity to martyr themselves for the sake of love. I dont know. Maybe women still feel that true love requires sacrifice like I said, but not in the case of an affair.
Got it Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I know! Some OW are as bad as some of us BS here , in their capacity to martyr themselves for the sake of love. I dont know. Maybe women still feel that true love requires sacrifice like I said, but not in the case of an affair. What do you mean not in the case of an affair? I don't think any love requires someone to sacrifice or martyr themselves. What is the purpose in that? Love oneself should be the first and primary love then loving another. I did/do not love him any differently because it was an affair than I would have in any other relationship. I made compromises due to the circumstances but I stopped when I felt like I was compromising myself.
Got it Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 To be honest I compromised myself much more in my marriage and that relationship than I have with sMM. I learned what boundaries I needed to keep in place and I have held firm on them. I also learned how much I need in return and to stand firm on it.
2sure Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 I absolutely compromised myself in marriage much much more than I did in an affair. And I expected to. I also expected my H to make some compromise and some sacrifice. I think in an affair , for the single person - the built in boundaries, limits, etc should be part of the pleasure of it. At the same time, those limits and boundaries that the married person comes with should automatically exempt the single person from compromise and sacrifice. If that is not the case, then the affair should end. Did I say that right?
Got it Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Not sure! I guess we might be arguing/discussing semantics. For me, there is a difference between making compromises and compromising one' s self. Making compromises is fine but compromising one's self is when boundaries have been crossed. I guess it comes down to the idea of "paying it ahead". A lot of people, in many different relationships, will do x because it will pay off with z down the road. The compromises of x have strings attached for z. When z doesn't happen then those strings cause resentment and more intense anger. I guess with the EMR I learned more about living and loving for the Present. That the past has already happened, there is no controls over the future so all we have is today. There is a great book but the guy who wrote "Who moved my Cheese" called " The Greatest Present" (or something like that) that addresses the above. Great book, actually both are fabulous books. Learning to live life to the fullest and appreciate and love those around you. That you must invest to get anything back and to stop living life by fear.
2sure Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Not sure! That you must invest to get anything back and to stop living life by fear. THAT we can agree on without confusion. I'm working on that right now.
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