Whoa, DDay, was not expecting it

March 24, 2010

I hate to be crass, but I wonder if part of the "juice" for her isn't doing her sister's husband. I'm not saying she doesn't care for him, but this fact has to be doing something for her. And that may even be dampened a little once she knows you know.

It just might. I think he said she was very worried how I would react when I found out. Plus....he is not her first MM, nor second, nor third. She likes them married. But anything on her side I'm purely speculating.

You're very pragmatic, and open minded about the whole thing in some ways, so can I ask what you believe he gets sexually out of a relationship with your sister, that he can't get from someone else, as you've given eachother that freedom?

Just seems cruel on his part to me.

Well its not about sex. Though he does say its very good. And I can believe that, I'm sure she is.

I know they have often talked over the years. He has hinted that she has spent a long time loving him from afar. I guess when he was home visiting his family (he had some training near the area and took a week off to visit, we could not go, it was during school) and they ticked him off and he went to visit with her and my family (they put on a family dinner with him, but he stayed with my sister because they were playing video games, no one thought anything of it) something happened during that trip. I don't know the details. I'm not sure of the details. But they spent some time together, he was trying to help her get online and wireless, and there were issues. Anyway, it happened, emotions flared, and the rest well...it happens.

CCL

March 24, 2010

Panic attacks are a physical expression of the emotional turmoil you are repressing...I don't know if it's a one off for you, but they certainly weren't for me until i realised why they were happening and I still get them occasionally.

I know. While they were a new experience for me to have - did feel similarly when I first found out due to the initial, OMG does he love me knee jerk reaction - I know people who have them fairly regularly. Not something I want to try again. But I think really at the time I was just wanting to turn the clock back a day and just not know for certain plus the fact that its now confirmed and out in the open. Just having to really face it and deal with it rather then just speculate....

CCL

March 24, 2010

It just might. I think he said she was very worried how I would react when I found out. Plus....he is not her first MM, nor second, nor third. She likes them married. But anything on her side I'm purely speculating.

Well its not about sex. Though he does say its very good. And I can believe that, I'm sure she is.

I know they have often talked over the years. He has hinted that she has spent a long time loving him from afar. I guess when he was home visiting his family (he had some training near the area and took a week off to visit, we could not go, it was during school) and they ticked him off and he went to visit with her and my family (they put on a family dinner with him, but he stayed with my sister because they were playing video games, no one thought anything of it) something happened during that trip. I don't know the details. I'm not sure of the details. But they spent some time together, he was trying to help her get online and wireless, and there were issues. Anyway, it happened, emotions flared, and the rest well...it happens.

CCL

I really want you to feel some anger. I don't believe whatever your beliefs / way of life that you deserve to be put in a position where you have to always accept the behaviour of others without them feeling the consequences of your feelings about their behaviour.

I'm angry on your behalf because I think that your H and possibly your sister too are deliberately trying to hurt you (although she sounds like she's just jealous of you)

March 24, 2010

I really want you to feel some anger. I don't believe whatever your beliefs / way of life that you deserve to be put in a position where you have to always accept the behaviour of others without them feeling the consequences of your feelings about their behaviour.

I'm angry on your behalf because I think that your H and possibly your sister too are deliberately trying to hurt you (although she sounds like she's just jealous of you)

I use to be a very angry person. And I had a very violent temper. And the anger would stay with me and I couldn't let it go and it ate at me. I do not hold on to anger. I might sometimes feel it, but after kinda saying to my self "yes I know I feel anger over this, but I can let it go" and look at it a different way so it doesn't take control again. I don't like that part of me. I won't go back there.

I know H isn't trying to hurt me. Sis, not so much. But never H. Well not unless I'm asking him to bite me harder, but then that's an asked for pain

Yes I make jokes so to lighten the mood. The anger is one of those things, if I do start feeling it and it starts being a dominate emotion and a frequent visitor, I will leave. I'm not going there again.

CCL

March 24, 2010

The more you've posted about your sister and her history, leaves me feeling she is going to damage your marriage and the R she has with you.

I know you don't want to get angry because of how you used to be, but you need to do something to ward her off.

I don't think its a good idea to have your sister be one of your H's sexual partners. And the fact that she dates married men mostly/only AND she seems jealous of you (chasing off your boyfriends? seriously this should NOT be ignored, IMO), is what leads me to feel this way.

Of course, as I said before, I don't really know any of the players in this, so this is just my opinion/conclusions drawn and may not have anything to do ultimately with what really happens.

Have you heard from your sister yet? I hope so. If not, this is troubling. Well, troubling was the lying in an open marriage but can't get that horse back in the barn. You need to talk to her sooner rather than later. And not let him talk to her on your behalf. What you have called "selfishness" most people consider it "self-preservation". Now that he has confessed, she should be trying to talk to you. They should not talk now, not until you speak to both of them alone and together. I fear you are still being lied to. Sounds like someone is banking on you always self-sacrificing. Problem is, one can't tell if its your H or your sister.

And I am totally with OWoman. I would have posted about using sis as a sitter if someone else hadn't.

There is so much more going on here - emotionally/psychologically. Don't be caught flat-footed by putting your head in the sand and writing off everything trying to see the other side. You need to be on your own side for a change.

(((CCL)))

March 24, 2010

There is so much more going on here - emotionally/psychologically. Don't be caught flat-footed by putting your head in the sand and writing off everything trying to see the other side. You need to be on your own side for a change.

(((CCL)))

Exactly. CCL you sound so grounded and centered and are truly amazing.

However... just because you agreed to open marriage and whatever other things go along with that, doesnt mean you HAVE to be OK with the fact that he has fallen in love with her.

You are wise and truly remarkable to be able to consider it all so calmly when there is so much on the line, your H and your sister, but dont try to force yourself to be OK with this if you find you arent.

Big hugs

March 24, 2010

People, I really appreciate the words of advice and especially the words of comfort. You have no idea how much this has meant to me. Thankyou.

I just had a long talk with H about things. He was like I don't see the point of talking about this, you know and it still doesn't solve anything. Well he was wrong, there was a point to talking.

I got a lot off my chest. Plus I also found out that he didn't know since November that I have known, I had missed heard him there. He was saying don't act like you haven't known since last november. I had made a comment after the cruise trying to get him to confess basically saying that Sis told me what happened. Well he confronted her about it, and then went snooping to see if I knew. I'm betting he found some of my posts here. Or something similar.

She knows he told me but they didn't talk much today. And she knew he was going to tell and she really didn't want it done. In fact she never wanted it done. He did say something about that which hurt me, and I told him that it really hurt me. He said one of the reasons he didn't tell the truth was because it wasn't just him involved. And she was against him ever saying it. I told him it really hurt because it felt like he was giving his loyalty to her and not me. It felt good to say this hurt me. And it was good to see his face when I said it.

It was also good to see his face when I said that not only had leaving crossed my mind, but that I had been checking out apartments online trying to figure out what I would need to be able to afford to move out. I am human enough to say, the fear that crossed his face was very healing for me. I was honest with him and told him that I don't know what I'm going to do long term because I still and am sure of how I will be able to cope with this, but that I wanted to make sure that if I did decide to leave, that I did it before we were bitter and resentful to each other.

He also said that he was not blind to sis's faults. And that even if I did move out, he's not sure he would ask her to come here. Or let her move in if she did come. He doesn't know if this is something she will want to continue now that I've found out. He's not even thinking of trying to find a time for them to get together.

He said it helps to know that they no longer have to hid that they are talking, he says it makes him feel better. That in his mind its not an either or, better or worse. That he made it very clear to her that he will never replace me for her.

Yes I know he could be lying. But I'm not going to live my life in fear he could be lying. I also know that feelings change. All I can do is take him at his word and decide from that whether I can live with this, or not.

I mentioned the whole weekend away thing and how it would bother me, and he agreed! And said that was one of the things that bothered him about it, because I'm already left alone with the kids when he has to go out of town for work, but to add this to it wouldn't be right. And then agreed that sis probably would watch the kids. And I think she would. She has offered.

Sis is a piece of work, but she does have her good points. But for some reason when it comes to her romantic life, she's a mess. I don't know why. We actually have a great role model in our parents. The boy friend she chased off...she was only 10 (thought it was 11, but realized I was 18 which made her 10), and I'm not entirely sure if she thought it was cute, meant it, or what. There is 8 years between us. And we had a rough sibling relationship as kids with a fair amount of jealousy on both our parts to be honest. I was a freaking nightmare to her. Which was part of my anger issue and why I don't want to go back there.

I think she would rather this remained a secret fantasy. H has said the same. That she was just planning on them having run away weekends now and then. I wonder if she will lose interest now that its open. And if she does, he will be rather hurt. And just like any love, he will grieve. But he also said that if it happened, life would be so much simpler and better.

I had felt bad about some of the things I've said to her about the two of us, but I no longer feel bad. I told H that I wasn't going to censor how I talked around her. I wouldn't hid and he and I are together, that we have future plans, when he does sweet things for me, or anything that is a part of us being a couple. And if it hurts, well I'm sorry but that's something she will just have to face as part of this whatever it is.

If there is lying going on, I think it is Sis who is doing it. To herself, to H, to me.

But all in all I feel a lot better. Both from talking over things on here, and for the talk with H tonight. And other then the one time earlier when I said I told him that what he said hurt, I didn't cry. Or even feel the need to cry. And like I said, I liked that he freaked at the idea that I would consider leaving. And that I actually had considered leaving, and that I'm still considering leaving. I will end things before the bitterness if it comes to that. And I'm at peace with that decision.

CCL

March 24, 2010

If there is lying going on, I think it is Sis who is doing it. To herself, to H, to me.

I agree with this. I apologize if it at all seems that I am hellbent on denigrating your sister. I am not. I just don't want you to allow your familial love for her to cloud your judgment about her motives.

You have stated that she is a serial OW. To me, that means that she is quite comfortable, by now, with the lying that comes along with it. I say this as a woman that is also related to serial OW, as well as serial MM. I know that the OW lie just as much as the MM. AND that the OW frequently help the MM in their lies.

I am just so afraid that you will let your guard down in your marriage because its your sister. I have a sister. I have had several step sisters as well. Sisters can often be worst to each other than even the BW/OW divide on this website. Sibling rivalry is real and about the worst kind of jealousy there is, IMO.

I agree that your sister may well lose interest now that things are out in the open, but isn't that going to really hurt your H? This has the potential to hurt your M, but your entire family. Wouldn't you be/get angry if she lost interest after all the feelings and considerations you've been making on her behalf?

I'm so glad that you spoke to him and were honest with him about your feelings and thoughts. He needs to know what is really at stake here. His telling you he wasn't giving her up was unacceptable to me. You should have the right to say "not my sister".

Honestly, CCL, it just seems like this is all a cruel, cruel game. And again, I still can't tell who is playing against you. I mean no disrespect to your sister or your H. They may not even be conscious of implications of their actions. Much like Jennie's "split-self" deal, this has childhood issues written all over it.

Take care of yourself.

March 24, 2010

I think its probably best that I bow out of this thread. I really don't want to offend you, CCL. I will continue to read along, but I really am concerned for you. And it has nothing to do with your marriage being open. I'm open to considering it, but my H isn't.

I hope I haven't already offended you. If I have, I am truly sorry.

March 24, 2010

I agree with this. I apologize if it at all seems that I am hellbent on denigrating your sister. I am not. I just don't want you to allow your familial love for her to cloud your judgment about her motives.

You have stated that she is a serial OW. To me, that means that she is quite comfortable, by now, with the lying that comes along with it. I say this as a woman that is also related to serial OW, as well as serial MM. I know that the OW lie just as much as the MM. AND that the OW frequently help the MM in their lies.

I am just so afraid that you will let your guard down in your marriage because its your sister. I have a sister. I have had several step sisters as well. Sisters can often be worst to each other than even the BW/OW divide on this website. Sibling rivalry is real and about the worst kind of jealousy there is, IMO.

I agree that your sister may well lose interest now that things are out in the open, but isn't that going to really hurt your H? This has the potential to hurt your M, but your entire family. Wouldn't you be/get angry if she lost interest after all the feelings and considerations you've been making on her behalf?

I'm so glad that you spoke to him and were honest with him about your feelings and thoughts. He needs to know what is really at stake here. His telling you he wasn't giving her up was unacceptable to me. You should have the right to say "not my sister".

Honestly, CCL, it just seems like this is all a cruel, cruel game. And again, I still can't tell who is playing against you. I mean no disrespect to your sister or your H. They may not even be conscious of implications of their actions. Much like Jennie's "split-self" deal, this has childhood issues written all over it.

Take care of yourself.

I think its probably best that I bow out of this thread. I really don't want to offend you, CCL. I will continue to read along, but I really am concerned for you. And it has nothing to do with your marriage being open. I'm open to considering it, but my H isn't.

I hope I haven't already offended you. If I have, I am truly sorry.

NONONONONONONO I hate loveshack! I had this huge long message typed out and its gone.

I am very pissed off now. I don't have time to restate everything just now. I'll do it later.

But NID - don't bow out. You did not offend me I went to bed. I was very tired and had a reason to go to bed.

Stupid loveshack eating my post.

CCL

March 24, 2010

CCL, I don't have an open marriage, but I'm open minded about them. So I don't come here with any bias against this kind of relationship.

I want your husband to be held responsible for his wrongdoing here. He betrayed your trust. And frankly, given these rules:

Just very loose ones, basically no lying, and to let the other know a head of time if possible, and afterwards if not possible (such as being out of town).

he had to work hard and go to fairly extreme lengths to betray you. He lied. He failed to let you know. The rules were extremely fair and allowed for a lot exploration, and STILL he "couldn't help" breaking them.

Why do you trust him at this point? (meaning: trust what he is saying, or trust that he won't break rules/cross MAJOR boundaries again?) He broke rules, he lied, he eventually fessed up, and you pretty much immediately forgive and go into compromise mode. What motivation does he have to follow the rules in the future?

I know H isn't trying to hurt me. Sis, not so much. But never H.

Hurting you may not have been his main motive, but he actively hurt you. Hurting you was no accident. Make no mistake: he made choices that he knew would hurt you.

It does sound like your sister's main motive is to hurt you, which is of course worse. But his motives being better by comparison don't make them good.

Wishing you the best, but wanting you to get ANGRY! and demand respect (((CCL))))

March 24, 2010

He betrayed your trust. And frankly, given these rules, he had to work hard and go to fairly extreme lengths to betray you. He lied. He failed to let you know. The rules were extremely fair and allowed for a lot exploration, and STILL he "couldn't help" breaking them.

Why do you trust him at this point? (meaning: trust what he is saying, or trust that he won't break rules/cross MAJOR boundaries again?) He broke rules, he lied, he eventually fessed up, and you pretty much immediately forgive and go into compromise mode. What motivation does he have to follow the rules in the future?

Hurting you may not have been his main motive, but he actively hurt you. Hurting you was no accident. Make no mistake: he made choices that he knew would hurt you.

It does sound like your sister's main motive is to hurt you, which is of course worse. But his motives being better by comparison don't make them good.

Wishing you the best, but wanting you to get ANGRY! and demand respect (((CCL))))

Very well said. How Open Marriages work is by being open and honest. He was neither and in betraying that trust, he broke the bonds of the relationship and should be held accountable.

Sometimes, you CAN'T have your cake and eat it too.

March 24, 2010

Ok I'm going to try and repeat most of what I said in my post that was eaten, which I think will answer XXOO, Carrie, and jthorne too...

I'm not angry at H because he's done a far better job at beating himself up then I ever could.

I trust him to be telling the truth now because if he knows if I find him lying again, I'm gone. He knows i've looked at apartments, that I've been trying to figure out what I would need to go. That really surprised him. And I told him I was pissed that it surprised him. The lying is out of character for him. It is not something he has done before. Which is why I will forgive and let it go this time.

I have told him he is going to have to accept my questions. I told him that while I normally try to see things from all sides, on this I am trying not to. That my feelings my needs my wants are my priority. And that walking is an option.

As for my sister. Well there is 8 years between us and I don't even know she knew about me and the first guy - the one she also had a crush on. We were rather hidden because he was my brother's best friend, and so it was basically a crush she has on her brother's friend and not her sister's boy friend. He was never my boy friend. And she was only 10 with the boyfriend she chased with the bat. It might simply be the case of we like similar guys.

But the repeated affairs....she has also cheated on every relationship she has been in. That is more troubling. I am not sure if its so much she is not a good person, or if she is more...a very insecure person. Or affraid of commitment. Though she claims to be always looking. Or if, she's even lying about being in affairs with all of them. H said he wondered if she was just making things up trying to feel better about herself.

H has his eyes open with her. He knows its possible that now that its out, she won't want him. I think he's hoping it is the case. The hiding was getting to him so badly. And yes I'm pissed and hurt that he considered her over me in telling me. I'm very mad about it. When I asked him he said he was already betraying me, he didn't want to add more to his plate. I actually do understand that thought process. And he saw first hand how much that hurt me when he said it. Which made him feel bad and want to clam up again because it made him feel like everything he said was going to hurt me. I think I convinced him that it hurts me even worse when he doesn't tell me.

I've seen the torment on his face. I can't add more to that. I know the torment in my heart over the secrets and the lies, and I won't allow more of that. He knows he's lucky this time.

Well I didnt' come close to repeating what I said before. I didn't say much about sis. There is much more to say. But while she plays a part of this, my concern, my focus, is on my marriage to my husband. He also said that was his focus right now. And that planning a time to see her is not what he wants to do. I did say I was ok with it if he did want to arrange a time to see her, but he said no he didn't want to do that. That it was just nice for right not to not have to hide it, to have it out. I don't know. We will see.

I'm not burying my head. Don't mistake forgiveness to head burying. I won't be sneaking around checking his phone. I'll straight out ask to see it this time if I feel the need.

I might be feeling all optimistic, but that's just my nature. I like to see the good side of people, but that doesn't mean I don't know there is a bad side too, either.

I've taken way to long to write this. hope it posts.

CCL

March 24, 2010

I get that you don't want to add to his torment, but you also should not protect him from his torment. Those horrible feelings he is experiencing are appropriate and have a purpose. Who is protecting you, CCL?

Also, please consider that you told him you could not accept a relationship with your sister, long before you knew about this (but after he had secretly begun one). Why are you now telling him it is ok for him to arrange time to see her? He crossed your stated boundary. He should not get permission to continue doing so as reward.

I get that your focus is your husband, not your sister. I think that is appropriate. But I wonder what your husband sees in a woman who can be so cruel to her own sister, his wife. Would he still care for her if she were this cruel to your children? I really don't understand that part. I have a sister 10 years my junior, and can't see the age gap as any justification for this kind of cruelty. This is her sister's husband, not some random married man.

He would be happy if she wanted to end it. Why doesn't he end it? Ok, he'll be grumpy. He'll get over it with no contact. The fog will lift with time, and he'll likely be disgusted by her when he "wakes up".

I admire you seeing the best, CCL. I really do. I really don't think I could be as generous. Still, it is important to see people for who they really are, rather than who we want them to be. Finding the balance is tricky.

March 24, 2010

I get that you don't want to add to his torment, but you also should not protect him from his torment. Those horrible feelings he is experiencing are appropriate and have a purpose. Who is protecting you, CCL?

Also, please consider that you told him you could not accept a relationship with your sister, long before you knew about this (but after he had secretly begun one). Why are you now telling him it is ok for him to arrange time to see her? He crossed your stated boundary. He should not get permission to continue doing so as reward.

I get that your focus is your husband, not your sister. I think that is appropriate. But I wonder what your husband sees in a woman who can be so cruel to her own sister, his wife. Would he still care for her if she were this cruel to your children? I really don't understand that part. I have a sister 10 years my junior, and can't see the age gap as any justification for this kind of cruelty. This is her sister's husband, not some random married man.

He would be happy if she wanted to end it. Why doesn't he end it? Ok, he'll be grumpy. He'll get over it with no contact. The fog will lift with time, and he'll likely be disgusted by her when he "wakes up".

I admire you seeing the best, CCL. I really do. I really don't think I could be as generous. Still, it is important to see people for who they really are, rather than who we want them to be. Finding the balance is tricky.

XXOO - I don't know why. I truly don't. As for why not forbid it since he broke the rules? Because he would continue behind my back and all would be hurt. Don't make a rule you know will be broken. I can see why you think its a reward, I think its practicality.

I also believe forbidding is in its own way appealing. Forbidden and you want it that much more. Allowed and eh not so much. It will help him see her faults better, rather on fixating on the fact that he isn't suppose to be doing it which I think clouds judgement.

I am trying not to protect him from his torment. It takes a lot for me to say things that I know will hurt the other person. But I've been saying them.

I don't know about my sister. Sometimes I think she doesn't think of me as his BS that she has some how manage to disconnect that from her mind.

Its really weird, a few months ago I got into it huge with someone on FB over something really stupid and this person started really slinging mud at me, trying to find every way to dig in the knife she could. When I banned her from my account she switched to email. Now I had been honest with her (because i'm honest) about some of my temper issues and depression issues (post partum particularly) and she was turning them on me. And my sister who had kept up with it on fb and then I shared the emails with her was all about defending me and sticking up for me there. She totally had my back there.

So I can't get how she could do this, and yet have my back there. Its like she's two different people. And its not just that. Its so much more. I don't get how she can be both people. Unless this is really eating her up. And how she feels for him is just as powerful as how I feel about him.

I am just mmm. I don't know. She and I need to talk.

I have one advantage she doesn't have. I am not afraid to blow this sucker wide open.

Oh and who is protecting me? Friends, lots and lots of friends who are helping me make sure that I look out for me. I might not follow the advice, but I am hearing it, considering it, and weighing it. And I'm looking out for me.

CCL

March 24, 2010

So I had to run to Wal-Mart for a few items, while walking through the store I got hit with this wave of anger. I am angry this happened, angry they both put me through this, angry at myself for not pushing in the beginning when I felt something was wrong. really angry at what he said about taking her into consideration for not telling me. Vindictively angry at her tryng to make him keep hiding it. H says a part of him wants the secret blow sky high. Well buddy, You have no idea how tempting it would be to post on FB for all the world to see. I'll give you open. hahahahahahahahahaha *sigh*

But I still don't see what anger solves. Though just the first rush of it felt pretty darn good. And I texted H and said i was feeling rather angry at the moment.

Jthorne - I don't think it was ever that fun for him. But I still think she was his escape fantasy for when times got rough. I think the emotions are real, but it was escape.

Her? yeah

CCL

March 24, 2010

Well leaving the marriage open, only opens more problems for what it's worth.

I mean you say it's what we decided for our marriage, and your mad that he lied about it.

Sooner or later something would have happened. It's only inevitable.

Hey i dont feel sorry for you, your kinda brought this on yourself. Boundries. If you cannot be forfilled sexually in your marriage and it takes multiple partners to satisfy your emotionally or sexually than what the F is the point of being married?

The answer can only come from the person/couple who decides what M means to them.

Not every M is a traditonal one. She did not condone him falling in love with someone else she only condoned having sex with other people; there is a difference. I'm not into open M but I can respect those that do.

CCL and her H set up boundaries and he crossed the line. That is not her fault.

March 24, 2010

Sorry, and (((hugs)))!

Do you think this is a love triangle?

One thing struck me (apart from the horrible mess type thing) is that if your sister always goes for your men, then this triangle is more about you and her than your H - he and/or she may realise that or not.

Have you considered asking H to go NC with this OW? He may be relieved. A situation like this is likely to be too intense for most parties to deal with psychologically, though of course different strokes...

If there really is love, and not just coveting here, then you sound like someone who could cope. But I think this coveting aspect throws a spanner in the works.

Good luck sorting through this.

CCL, this is the issue that had me concerned as, this has happened to me a lot, all through my life. I found it frustrating at times. It just made me feel weird, as to why?

March 24, 2010

H said that was weird too. And agrees it should be something like that on her part. But in fairness to her, I was not openly with the first one, becuase he was my brother's best friend and he didn't want to ruin that relationship. It also allowed it to be "secret" and all hot that way. Which....you know I can understand the forbidden fruit kinda thing

March 24, 2010

But I still don't see what anger solves.

Anger is as important and as useful as any other emotion. Yes, it can damaging when taken too far, but denying anger is equally lethal to a relationship. Anger motivates us to needed action. Anger is what tells us to confront and say "Enough!", and demand better treatment, so that we can have healthy boundaries and relationships.

It infuriates me that he would go behind your back and continue the affair if you insisted you can not accept their relationship. He's disregarded your boundaries, and you know he will continue doing so, so you give him permission to do so. Why bother having boundaries? And how can you live without them?

It isn't a matter of forbidding a child. He is an adult who wants a relationship with you. You can not accept relationship + sleeping with your sister. What good does it do to force yourself to stomach it, or pretend you can accept it? And really, who in their right mind expects their wife to accept a polyamorous relationship with her sister, or a poly relationship with their secret affair partner, let alone both

March 24, 2010

((((((((((((((((CCL))))))))))))))) I am so sorry that you have to endure this with someone you are supposed to trust..I know it must hurt and I hope you find peace. you know that we are all here for you.

March 24, 2010

I use to be a very angry person. And I had a very violent temper. And the anger would stay with me and I couldn't let it go and it ate at me. I do not hold on to anger. I might sometimes feel it, but after kinda saying to my self "yes I know I feel anger over this, but I can let it go" and look at it a different way so it doesn't take control again. I don't like that part of me. I won't go back there.

I know H isn't trying to hurt me. Sis, not so much. But never H. Well not unless I'm asking him to bite me harder, but then that's an asked for pain

Yes I make jokes so to lighten the mood. The anger is one of those things, if I do start feeling it and it starts being a dominate emotion and a frequent visitor, I will leave. I'm not going there again.

CCL

I did too CCL...it took so much enery from me. Right now I am dealing with a "family" situation, and as it progresses I can feel that violent anger rising up...

We have to be careful because we are like "explosive", to the true nature of that word...I see red, (or nothing) and just start freaking out. I hate that side of me. I really hate to communicate this, although I was very abusive back in the day...not on a continual basis, but something would set me off and I would go balistic.

March 24, 2010

Anger is as important and as useful as any other emotion. Yes, it can damaging when taken too far, but denying anger is equally lethal to a relationship. Anger motivates us to needed action. Anger is what tells us to confront and say "Enough!", and demand better treatment, so that we can have healthy boundaries and relationships.

It infuriates me that he would go behind your back and continue the affair if you insisted you can not accept their relationship. He's disregarded your boundaries, and you know he will continue doing so, so you give him permission to do so. Why bother having boundaries? And how can you live without them?

It isn't a matter of forbidding a child. He is an adult who wants a relationship with you. You can not accept relationship + sleeping with your sister. What good does it do to force yourself to stomach it, or pretend you can accept it? And really, who in their right mind expects their wife to accept a polyamorous relationship with her sister, or a poly relationship with their secret affair partner, let alone both

Maybe we need to find common ground with anger?

March 24, 2010

We have to be careful because we are like "explosive", to the true nature of that word...I see red, (or nothing) and just start freaking out. I hate that side of me. I really hate to communicate this, although I was very abusive back in the day...not on a continual basis, but something would set me off and I would go balistic.

I have this type of anger too...pretty scary when it happens.

March 24, 2010

I told him it really hurt because it felt like he was giving his loyalty to her and not me. It felt good to say this hurt me. And it was good to see his face when I said it.

CCL

The risk anyone takes when having an open R is the fact that love can grow between two of the partners in that open R.

You are absolutely valid in your pain. You have always been up front, open, and honest with him and ALLOWED him the same freedom with NO FEAR of rejection. If you have an agreement to be that honest and open then he should have shared everything, including an attraction to your sister, all along.

I believe that is why he felt the only way to muster enough courage to confess it to you was because he held back the truth.

I suppose at this point you can both decide to renegotiate how the open R works in this M when love becomes part of the mix. Will he always stay M to you? Raise the kids with you? Share all assets with you? If you D will you both always have that special chemistry and love that only brings you back together? I mean, if he has it ALL with you (and clearly he has) why wouldn't he agree to all of the above?

I guess I am angry with him (and I am open to the idea of open Ms) because you gave him so much freedom and TRUST and he allowed his emotions to get in the way. We see this all the time in a typical MM/OW R and we accept it oftentimes because the MP is actually looking for love and intimacy where he couldn't find it in his M. But it appears you both had that already.

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