Whoa, DDay, was not expecting it

[crazycatlady]

I'm posting this here because I feel better understood here when it comes to this stuff even if I am the BW.

 

DDay happened. Tonight. Was not expecting it. We were starting to have sex and it happened. Well, first he had to throw up because he had been drinking earlier which I think let down his barrier.

 

While it has turned out to be rather close to what I expected, it was not totally what I expected. And even though its mostly what I expect, I am still in shock. He's passed out sleeping (and this is NOT normal behavior for him, its rather abnormal) and I'm left awake.

 

He loves us both. That I am now officially certain of. He has told me, and I believe him, that I'm stuck with him until one of us is dead. I believe him. He was tearing himself a part because of this for fear of hurting me, for fear I would leave him, and for fear I could not accept that he loves her too.

 

He is angry at himself that he let it happen. I pointed out that I didn't make the choice to fall in love with him, so why would I expect it to be different for them. This wasn't someone whom he could simply not ever talk to again.

 

He told me he knew that I knew since November but was too chicken to bring it up as well, not knowing what I was thinking about it. Turns out he knew I knew because he was checking up on what I was doing. I guess I feel a little better about snooping. I have no idea she knows I know or not. Probably, since honesty has always been on that side of things.

 

I did tell him that hurt the most, that he lied to me. And that made me feel more uncertain then anything else he had done. I also admit though, that if he had told me a year ago, that I most likely could not have handled it or would have handled it very poorly. So while in some ways it was better he lied, the fact of the lie hurt deeply and made me feel insecure.

 

Most of what we talked about is going to have to be talked about again. Its going to take a long time to figure out where this is going and how we are going to manage it. He's not going to give her up. I said I could not handle being equal as in joint time sharing him. And said it wasn't fair to OW, but I'm being honest about what I can deal with and that's all I can do in this situation. I always knew he was capable of loving and loving very deeply more then just me. It just sucks its her.

 

I am still in shock right now. I started crying when we went to bed and couldn't stop. I still want to cry now. Its not a sobbing. And I know he's not going to leave me, and that he loves me, and nothing about his feelings for me have changed.

 

I had posted in the other forum that I felt things were getting back to normal, that he was reconnecting with me, that I could feel it in my gut. And in a way I was right. He was getting easier in himself that he could tell me what was going on, that if I was being this way with him, and he knew I knew, and I didn't act mean and nasty to OW on the trip, then maybe things could work out if he told me the truth and that decision was what I guess I was feeling from him.

 

We have a long way to go from here. It was both good to get it out, and saddening. I feel like this is the last of my innocence is a bizzare sense.

 

I honestly do not know what is going to happen from here. I know as long as the love I feel for him, and the happiness that brings and everything good and bright outweighs the pain and the difficulties this will bring, then I will stay. I know we have a great deal more to talk about. And he's going to have to understand and accept that I'm going to need more reassurance and focus from him.

 

I'm relieved, saddened that I wasn't right and he wasn't letting her go and recommiting only to me, happy that he's found two people to love and whom love him back because he is an amazing man, pleased that my sister has finally found someone who loves her for who she truly is, irritated that my sister did this to me and didn't have the guts to tell me, plus the fact that she always falls for my guys (my first love was her first love). So I do have some issues there to work out, a bit of bitterness.

 

And the fact that 99% of all people will not understand why I'm doing this. I think that's why I feel comfortable posting here. In a sense, I a BW am also the OW in their relationship.

 

I'm tired, but I don't know if I can sleep. So many emotions right now.

 

CCL

[BB07]

The OW is your sister, If I read that right. :confused:

 

Wow.......that's got to make it hurt even more. I don't know of any good advice or what to say, but here is a hug and I hope things look a little clearer tomorrow.

[crazycatlady]

That is what made it hard for everyone involved, OW = my sister. We have an open marriage, I pretty much knew he was capable of loving more then just me, it just sucks that its her he fell for. Otherwise there never would have been a lie.

 

I have very mixed feelings about this. I know her very well, I don't think she is capable of handling a relationship like this, no matter what she says. I'm not sure how this will affect our relationship long term, it did not affect the relationship with my knowing during our vaca away from the world last month we got along as we usually do. I even told H that I do not think she is capable of handling this long term. I told him I wasn't sure about me either.

 

I wish he had been sober for this conversation. I wish this conversation had taken places months ago or better yet, never cause to take place.

 

I'm rambling now. Its late. I'm tired. But I can't sleep. I'm one of those people that likes to hash things out immediately

[White Flower]

((((CCL))))

 

You are an amazing person. My heart goes out to you. Your H is one lucky guy.

 

Will you be able to talk with your sister as usual? Will the three of you be able to sit at the same table, go to all the family parties together?

 

Get some sleep and take care of yourself. Get back to us in the morning.

 

((((CCL))))

[NoIDidn't]

Isn't the OW your sister, though?

 

Its good that he finally told you, but not that it happened while he was drunk.

 

I hope you talk to her. I think you need to lay some ground rules with her and him.

 

I don't think its fair to you that its your sister, or that he seems to be trying to put her on equal status with you. You should be the primary. At least, that's the way that I understand open marriages to work in most cases. That your feelings are primary, not the other Rs, even if it is your sister.

 

Considering this started as an A, I don't feel too good about it. But I don't know your sister or your H, so this is just my feeling - nothing more. What I don't like about it is that he says he knew that you knew, and that to me means he more than likely told her that you knew. And they both kept sneaking around on you. You are remarkably calm, considering.

[pureinheart]

(((((((((((CCL)))))))))))))

 

This is your forum....I am sooooo sorry that your sister didn't come to you in the beginning, but everything happens for a reason...like you said, you may not have handled things quite as well in the beginning.

 

My friends did the same things to me, always up on my H or BF...whatever, right....soooo I know how you feel. Wow we knew this would come huh...and now that it's here all I know to do is give you hugs and tell you how much we all think of you and how much we love you....

 

Our tears are with you....

[crazycatlady]

When I went back to bed he was awake, so we talked some more. He was very afraid of what I would do. And I think he still is concerned.

 

NID - no, he's not wanting to set her up as equal. Other then talking to each other, no, they weren't sneaking around. They have been together three times in just over a year. She didn't believe I actually knew though. H told me that she felt I would never forgive her when I found out. He didn't tell me that he knew I knew for the same reason I didn't tell him. Fear. But he swears to me that I told her under no uncertain terms that he loves me and he's never letting me go on his own.

 

I've told him that I can handle anything else, but he's never to lie to me again. I can't take it.

 

I still am...in shock. Now that its offically out, I don't know how it will affect my relationship with her. I just don't know. Right now I don't want to talk to her because I'm still struggling with my own feelings.

 

Its going to take me a few days to feel back on stable ground I think. I think I'll end up back where I was, but I don't know for sure. I did tell him that I was staying, that I would stay until either the pain outweighs the love and positive things or when he asks me to leave.

 

He's taking today off. I was going to do some volunteer work this morning, but I think I'm coming home too. I'm so tired.

[jennie-jennie]

In a sense, I a BW am also the OW in their relationship.

 

What an interesting conclusion.

 

You are an amazing person.

 

I so have to agree with White Flower here.

 

((((((CCL))))))

[Mini-Me]

I'm posting this here because I feel better understood here when it comes to this stuff even if I am the BW.

 

DDay happened. Tonight. Was not expecting it. We were starting to have sex and it happened. Well, first he had to throw up because he had been drinking earlier which I think let down his barrier.

 

 

 

I'm relieved, saddened that I wasn't right and he wasn't letting her go and recommiting only to me, happy that he's found two people to love and whom love him back because he is an amazing man, pleased that my sister has finally found someone who loves her for who she truly is, irritated that my sister did this to me and didn't have the guts to tell me, plus the fact that she always falls for my guys (my first love was her first love). So I do have some issues there to work out, a bit of bitterness.

 

And the fact that 99% of all people will not understand why I'm doing this. I think that's why I feel comfortable posting here. In a sense, I a BW am also the OW in their relationship.

 

I'm tired, but I don't know if I can sleep. So many emotions right now.

 

CCL

 

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry

 

No, seriously, wow! I am sorry you are going through this. I can't imagine... Good luck...

[Rearden Metal]

I can't even imagine being in this scenario. I know I wouldn't have anything near the same reactions/feelings that you do.

 

Yeah, Good Luck is about all I can say, too.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

Ok. I dont mean to sound harsh, but Im wondering if your initial reaction is just that sort of gut in the moment scared to death sort of reaction to cling to him (and her).

 

This is a big deal. A very big deal and i would imagine that something like this will be very hard to overcome...especially when he tells you that its not over and wont be because he loves the two of you.

 

I think its almost too much to ask of a spouse to accept that you have someone else that you love and want them to stick around for it. Even more absurd is that its your own sister.

 

You have two issues of betrayal here. Not one.

 

You are amazing, but theres not doubt youve got a ton of stuff to work through. Good luck and prayers.

[OWoman]

(((((hugs))))) CCL!

 

You are handling this incredibly well. I can only imagine how hard it must be.

 

You love him, and he loves you, and - for now at least - you want to stay together. As others have said, I think you will need to set some ground rules - rules that YOU are comfortable with. Your sister will need to agree to those, or move on. She should not be a threat to your M, and your H should make sure that does not happen. He needs to take responsibility for ensuring that at all times you are happy with how things are in that regard - unless you decide to change the terms of your M, or to leave it.

 

Hang in there!

[crazycatlady]

I don't know why, but this morning now that the kids are gone, I'm having panic attacks. I've never dealt with this before. It feels like my heart is racing, and I can't breath and that the world is just going to collapse around me and its completely illogical. If I take a moment force myself to breath it will ease off but it keeps coming back.

 

Oh I know there is a lot of work to be done. And I will be letting him know that there are things I can't deal with, lying being one of them. I've told him he's going to have to work hard right now at helping me feel safe and secure (that's the reason behind the attacks at this moment). Knowing and feeling things for me can be two different things, and right now the emotional side is willing over the logical side and he needs to do some work on that.

 

And I'm frustrated with myself too, because I worked all of this out in my head. I had a best case, worse case, and the most likely senerio worked out in my head over the last few months. And while I was learning to the best case, turns out the most likely is what's going on - him wanting to build some type of polyamorous relationship with the two of us. Logically, I'm good with this. But now that its actually here.....Yeah I'm like in a state of panic. I wasn't panicing last night, last night was grief for the loss of one stage of our life together. Today the panic has set in.

 

I've got to go to work soon, and he's not up so I can talk to him about it. But he will be here when I get back home (I only currently work an hour and a half).

 

everything is in such confusion in my mind. But its really not the confusion that everyone here is probably thinking. The main though that is going round and round in my brain is this - ok, so for them to ahve time together due to distance and the fact that neither of us is moving, they will have to arrange for lovers weekends (sure she might come here but even if she did it wouldn't be very often). I really was ok with that until I started thinking, we don't get lovers weekends not unless we pay for a sitter or beg a set of friends to watch the kids. We don't get to run away, hide from the world, have sex like new lovers. The kids are always around, sex is a catch as you can (ok its a lot but still catch as you can) half the time we just do it and not take out time with it because its late and mornings are early. And then I start thinking, how am i going to deal with this and not be resentful? And then I think, how can she deal with just a few times a year and not be resentful? Am I going to have to stop talking about H and I to her? Is that wrong to represent us as a couple? We have been talking on FB about mundane stuff (car shopping) and I've mentioned H and I as a couple twice now. How much pain does that give her? Does it give her any? I don't know. But all of this is what is causing the panic attacks.

 

I hate unknowns and uncertainities. And its a testiment to how much of a coward I am that I went for so long knowing and not confronting them about this.

 

I don't doubt that we can work this out. But damn this sucks! And I really wish the panicy feeling would go away. Resisting the fight or flight feeling is not easy.

 

CCL

[CarrieT]

Like many others hear, I offer my condolences and hugs. It is obvious you have a great deal to work through and I don't know if you are on any Open Marriage chat groups, but you might do better getting advice there; at some point, someone here is going to slam you for having an Open Marriage PERIOD and the burn that comes from playing with fire.

 

I commiserate with you -- having had an open marriage in my youth -- but mine also ended when my Husband started playing outside our parameters. There is the rub with Open Marriages; they rarely ever work because someone usually always develops feelings for another during the course of the play. It is just sad that this has happened with your sister which compounds your emotional trauma.

 

You may or may not grow old with your husband, but you certainly will have a relationship with your sister for the rest of your life (even if you excommunicate each other from your lives) via the rest of the your immediate family. The biggest suggestion I can recommend is for EVERYONE to be open and honest and talk and talk and TALK to each other.

 

Time *does* heal all wounds, but this one is going to hurt for a while, until you figure out what is best for all of you.

 

Be well.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I know this is gonna sound crazy, but seriously what did you expect with an open marriage?

 

I mean you condone this idealogy into your marriage meaning you condone the affair.

 

But your probably asking yourself, why'd it have to be your sister, why not some common hood rat. Well. Things happen.

 

What are you planning to do about it. Are you A BW, a willing WS? An OW to your husband's new girlfriend?

 

Isnt this all confusing???

[crazycatlady]

We just had a quick talk (about to walk out the door) I was like please don't take this the wrong way but FU for getting us into the situation.

 

I was laughing when I said it. He says he understands why I said it.

 

CarrieT - I've been waiting for those posters to start in. I can't imagine them not joining.

 

And yes, we have many more conversations to go. What sucks is men hate talking but he's going to have to deal.

 

But I will not be a doormat. I told him that there are things I won't be capable of dealing with, and we need to talk more about it. And she needs to be brough in. I don't know if he told her last night he was going to tell me. He said she was very afraid of me and my reaction.

 

Anyway I'm late for work lol bye!

[OWoman]

The main though that is going round and round in my brain is this - ok, so for them to ahve time together due to distance and the fact that neither of us is moving, they will have to arrange for lovers weekends (sure she might come here but even if she did it wouldn't be very often). I really was ok with that until I started thinking, we don't get lovers weekends not unless we pay for a sitter or beg a set of friends to watch the kids. We don't get to run away, hide from the world, have sex like new lovers. The kids are always around, sex is a catch as you can (ok its a lot but still catch as you can) half the time we just do it and not take out time with it because its late and mornings are early. And then I start thinking, how am i going to deal with this and not be resentful?

 

CCL - any R he has with her should not be at the expense of his R with you. If giving her stuff is going to make you resentful, then that is detracting from your M, and that is at your expense. If he wants to make time to be with her, then he needs to make at least as much time to be with you - under similarly optimal conditions. Perhaps she could babysit for you while you and your H have a dirty weekend, and in exchange you could babysit for your H while he and her have one, for example.

 

 

And then I think, how can she deal with just a few times a year and not be resentful? Am I going to have to stop talking about H and I to her? Is that wrong to represent us as a couple? We have been talking on FB about mundane stuff (car shopping) and I've mentioned H and I as a couple twice now. How much pain does that give her? Does it give her any?

 

CCL - frankly, that's HER problem, not yours. She knew the parameters when she took this on. Your M is a given - she needs to work around that if she wants a R with your H. Her R with your H is not a given that you need to work around - that is all up for negotiation. She may be your sister, and you may love her and want what's best for her in other contexts - but in this one, she's sitting opposite you at a negotiating table, and her interests very directly conflict with yours. This is not about being nice to her - this is about negotiating a deal that is sustainable for you, for your M and for your kids. If you give away too much, you will become resentful of both your H and your sister, and two very important Rs will be under threat. You need to make sure you get what you need, what you can live with - not just now, but longer term.

[Brokenlady]

Perhaps she could babysit for you while you and your H have a dirty weekend, and in exchange you could babysit for your H while he and her have one, for example.

 

 

I think my head just exploded. I had that same thought, then I thought this would be just too weird. Is this possible that people could do this and be ok with it?

[torranceshipman]

'happy that he's found two people to love and whom love him back because he is an amazing man,'

 

You TRULY believe this?! I know you are in shock right now...is this denial?

 

Because - after cheating on you, throwing up during sex and bring it up (excuse the pun) right then, then rolling over and passing out (leaving you awake and crying), after telling you he won't give her up...

 

you're ok with this?

 

I'm sorry but this man is treating you like a total, utter doormat and has no respect for you whatsoever. He might love you, but he doesn't respect you. And he is also incredibly selfish - I can't imagine measuring out so much misery on someone else, by cheating on them for months, knowing they know and that their heart is breaking, but still choosing to say nothing and slink off to see the OW all this time, then admitting it all when puking after drinking too much, then saying no, can't give the other person up, sorry, but as you know I am special so you'll understand...

 

Seriously? I state this with 100% certainly - you are TOO GOOD FOR THIS SHMUCK. TOO GOOD!! I hope this is the denial phase and that the anger is on its way before you take up doormat duties forever. Man, he has a nerve. I would be SO angry if I was your mom, friend, sister, etc...

 

Edited to add: just read through the post and realized the OW IS your sister...I really feel for you. Do you really need 2 people like this in your life? You seriously don't think you could find more happiness elsewhere with a guy who a) thinks you are so awesome he wouldn't share you in the 1st place, b) realizes it is inappropriate to bang your sister and c) has some backbone to not slink around in a cowardly way for months even when he knows you know of his A?

Edited March 23, 2010 by torranceshipman

[ladydesigner]

I'm sorry CCL that you are in this situation, that the OW has to be your sister. Only YOU know what is the best possible situation for your marriage. I know I could not handle knowing my H is doing all those same things that he does to me and is also doing them and maybe more to my sis, it would kill me inside.

 

I hope you find peace and resolution.

[crazycatlady]

CCL - any R he has with her should not be at the expense of his R with you. If giving her stuff is going to make you resentful, then that is detracting from your M, and that is at your expense. If he wants to make time to be with her, then he needs to make at least as much time to be with you - under similarly optimal conditions. Perhaps she could babysit for you while you and your H have a dirty weekend, and in exchange you could babysit for your H while he and her have one, for example.

 

 

 

 

CCL - frankly, that's HER problem, not yours. She knew the parameters when she took this on. Your M is a given - she needs to work around that if she wants a R with your H. Her R with your H is not a given that you need to work around - that is all up for negotiation. She may be your sister, and you may love her and want what's best for her in other contexts - but in this one, she's sitting opposite you at a negotiating table, and her interests very directly conflict with yours. This is not about being nice to her - this is about negotiating a deal that is sustainable for you, for your M and for your kids. If you give away too much, you will become resentful of both your H and your sister, and two very important Rs will be under threat. You need to make sure you get what you need, what you can live with - not just now, but longer term.

 

OW - thankyou, I needed to hear that. I do struggle sometimes being selfish enough to keep the relationship that was already there on a good standing. Sounds like I need to work on being even more selfish. This is actually a difficult thing for me to do.

 

I don't necessarily agree her interesting are in direct conflict of my own. BUT if this is not handled right, and if I do not stand up for myself now, they will be. I have this thing about fairness, its a big issue for me, so I tend to look at all sides. Again though, you are right, right now, right here, I need to look out for myself and my needs.

 

Thank you OW!

 

CCL

[crazycatlady]

I think my head just exploded. I had that same thought, then I thought this would be just too weird. Is this possible that people could do this and be ok with it?

 

LOL, actually before I knew what was going on, he had suggested that we do that some time, have her come out and let us get a weekend away together. It does seem weird. I like distance, but this amount of distance is actually going to make it even harder.

 

As for the last question, who knows! I guess we will find out over the course of the next year.

 

CCL

[crazycatlady]

'happy that he's found two people to love and whom love him back because he is an amazing man,'

 

You TRULY believe this?! I know you are in shock right now...is this denial?

 

Because - after cheating on you, throwing up during sex and bring it up (excuse the pun) right then, then rolling over and passing out (leaving you awake and crying), after telling you he won't give her up...

 

you're ok with this?

 

I'm sorry but this man is treating you like a total, utter doormat and has no respect for you whatsoever. He might love you, but he doesn't respect you. And he is also incredibly selfish - I can't imagine measuring out so much misery on someone else, by cheating on them for months, knowing they know and that their heart is breaking, but still choosing to say nothing and slink off to see the OW all this time, then admitting it all when puking after drinking too much, then saying no, can't give the other person up, sorry, but as you know I am special so you'll understand...

 

Seriously? I state this with 100% certainly - you are TOO GOOD FOR THIS SHMUCK. TOO GOOD!! I hope this is the denial phase and that the anger is on its way before you take up doormat duties forever. Man, he has a nerve. I would be SO angry if I was your mom, friend, sister, etc...

 

Edited to add: just read through the post and realized the OW IS your sister...I really feel for you. Do you really need 2 people like this in your life? You seriously don't think you could find more happiness elsewhere with a guy who a) thinks you are so awesome he wouldn't share you in the 1st place, b) realizes it is inappropriate to bang your sister and c) has some backbone to not slink around in a cowardly way for months even when he knows you know of his A?

 

I appreciate the kind manner you disagreed with me, thank you. I've pondered your side of things way before reading it here (I've discussed this in person with several of my friends and a few of them feel as you do).

 

Right now the pain this has caused isn't anywhere near the enjoyment I get from being in a relationship with H. The love is far more the felt emotion instead of the hurt. Its one of the reasons why I feel more at ease posting this here. OW (the state of relationship, not the poster) know what its like to love someone and have to share them and when the love is good are willing to share, whether that's the ideal situation or not.

 

While he knew I knew some what what he had done, he didn't know how I felt about it. Or wanted to do about it. Or how I would react when it was brought to light. He also hasn't actually seen her since July of last year. Distance is half way across the country.

 

Does this situation suck? HELL YES. And while I want to yell at both of them what the F where you thinking? I think the answer was they didn't think. But even then it doesn't matter. Done is done and now we deal with fallout.

 

CCL

[MizzBlue72]

Oh CL - good luck to you!!

Open Marriages - yeah, they CAN work. I know some people that do have these types of arrangements.

Looks like you really need to re-visit the ground rules.

Did you specifically have any prior to this?

If not - set some SOLID ones now. Ones that you both agree too and will not break.

If you guys can not come to a decision on the basic rules, then this will not work.

I know you are more of a woman than I am. Open marriage or not - if my sister messed with my H?? Nooooo ... I don't think I could forgive her.

[torranceshipman]

I do appreciate what you say - but give this some real thought...

 

Your H does not have the monopoly on giving you enjoyment.

 

So just wanted to flag that up - most guys that you date or marry would give it to you too, but would never feel the need to share you or to sleep with your sister, so the enjoyment alone is no reason to stay. In fact, imagine you had only ever eaten fatburgers with a milkshake, and thought you liked it so turned down a gourmet fillet steak with champagne because you thought you were good with what you had...

 

Sorry to hear what you are going through..