What a mess... or not?

[gtrplayer]

Ok,... so I will TRY To be brief...

 

Divorced after 10 years. NO kids by choice. 2 months after the divorce I meet "her" the girl that had many of the attributes the x didn't have. So we hook up... I dive in DEEP (of course).

 

I'm extremely emotionally unhealthy at the start of this due to just being divorced of course... but I go foward anyway. The new girl gives me all that I didn't have and it's great. Although, there was alwasy something "off" about her... mysterious, secret, unkonwn.

 

A year into it, I find out/figure out what that was... Yea... of course cheating and doing other guys. Maybe my first clue should have been how we met?? Met her in a bar and literally about 6 minutes into our convo we had it confirmed that she would be going home with me. Nice!!! (at the time).

 

At the "cheating" part... I'm so sucked in that I don't want to break it off... she came 1/4 f the way clean... I STILL know more than she knows...but I let it be and she "changed" her ways.

 

One MORE year later here we are... she has, in fact changed those ways and I have few wonders or questions about her faithfulness at this point... For the most part she has changed who she is as a person... literally 180 degrees from what I met TWO years ago.

 

She has two little boys. Remember, I don't have kids, don't want them, never had them, the crux of my divorce was due to her wanting kids and me not wanting kids.

 

This then will beg the question in your mind, "why would you get involved with....." Because, I was 2 months out of a 10yr marriage and all messed up... BUT here I am still in it.

 

The only thing I'm proud of that I've done is that I've been STRAIGHT with her since the start about my issue with kids! She knows this and she KNOWS that "we" can never have a long terms / live in/ marriage sitaution together, because I just don't want that and cannot... AND will not do that.

 

"At the time" because of my recent divorce this worked out well... she didn't want long term either so we carried on and enjoyed each other in a "committed" relationship.

 

Anyway... "not" long term has turned into now two years. The "agreement" is the issue now and I understand it perfectly.

 

The whole thing is wrong... it's unfair to her kids, unfair to her and also unfair to me! BUT we, for some reason cannot break it off!

 

Addiction? Dependancy? How or what do we do.

 

Please know that "kids" are simply NOT an option in my future. They are cool as long as they are HER responsibility AND they do not live with me, but outside of that... NOPE no kids for me.

 

On top of that... I STILL have a bit of a "lingering" trust issue with her and probably always will. She is still somewhat secretive with some things.

 

Anyway... I'm sure you all will run me through the ringer...so let the ringing begin. And ladies... I apologize up front, but I simply cannot bend on the no kids thing. And yes, I KNOW I should not have gotten involved, but it's too late... I'm 2 years involved.

[Arabella]

I hope nobody bashes you for the no-kids thing. Everyone has things they are not willing to compromise on. You were straight with her from the beginning and she has no right to expect you to change your mind.

 

However, since this is a deal-breaker for you, you are pretty much out of options. You should never have let it go as far as it has, because after two years it's clearly not about companionship and fun times anymore. There are real feelings involved and that's difficult to let go.

 

But that's exactly what you need to do. For as long as you're still together, she cannot move on to find a man who is willing to form a family with her and her children, and you cannot find a woman who shares the same values as you.

 

Difficult as it may be, it's time to move on. It will only get harder with time.

 

 

Arabella

[gtrplayer]

Arabella - Thank you so much. I appreciate your response... and I know that that "no kid" bashing will probably come... it always does, that's why I put that sort of disclaimer in there.

 

You're right... it's time, but we both have a difficult time letting it go and we try to break up, but it just doesn't work.

 

We left our conversation today with an agreement that we will start to distance ourselves from each other a bit... I mean we we are normally in CONSTANT communication with each other..

 

Literally every single waking hour we send txt about every 20 min... and I'm NOT kidding. Consistently Constant Communication. It wears me out sometimes.

 

We "broke up" yesterday and for the first time in TWO years, I've had a sunday morning to ME and my mind is going nuts with great thoughts and I'm enjoying my day doing what "I" want to do and relaxing with MYSELF and guesss what.... there are NO kids in my house today on this fine Sunday!!!!!! YYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

 

But what has happened is I've had time to think and realize..."wow... we really DO need to end this and move on..."

 

it's so darn hard NOT to txt her and NOT to call her... we talked a bit this morning but it was good as we decided on the "begin to distance" ourselves... she asked what did I want to do to day and if I wanted to see her. For the first time in two years I was brutally honest and said, "NO... I just want to relax today by myslef." She was ok with that, but I know her, and it will come back in my face later tonight or tomorrow... but whatever right?? I mean, so what... it's what "I" want to do!

 

[hoping2heal]

Personally, I think there is a high chance that the two of you share a bond in sickness. There's nothing wrong with you not wanting children, being honest and up front about it and sticking with it. However, one has to think. WHy would a man who doesn't want kids end up for 2 years with a woman who has them? Furthermore, why would a woman who HAS kids let a man into her life and theirs who doesn't want children and says "no way jose" ? It sounds like neither one of you are on a very stable footing and that just may be why the two of you are so drawn to one another. You "get" eachother. You both seem to have serious issues trusting others based on the fact that you BOTH set yourselves up to be in a relationship with a pre-planned "escape route". Also, she clearly sabotages her relationships (i.e the cheating) Chances are you both have been through a lot of the same pains in life that caused you to be so mistrusting and have the feelings you have about things. That allows you to be so understanding of one another and having someone who is understanding is well.."nice".

 

I also get the feeling that you not wanting children isn't stemming from a basic "dislike" of children so much as it just may be another tie in to your trust issues. I could be off the mark but if I'm NOT then well, It's a real shame chief that you two couldn't get healthy together also and put yourselves on a good path you-her- and the 2 boys too.

[Arabella]

I know it's very difficult. I was faced with a similar situation, breaking up with someone I deeply loved and trying not to contact him. He and I were a lot like that too, texting throughout the day constantly. My cellphone was like an extension of my hand.

 

I would just recommend you go no-contact entirely for a good long while to break the addiction and emotional attachment. Let her know about it and ask her to respect it, then delete her phone number off your cellphone. That way, it will be easier to resist the temptation every time you pick it up. Over time, as the bond begins to fade, it will become less difficult.

 

Meanwhile, take the time to appreciate and enjoy your solitude. Go out with friends, take a walk, treat yourself to a nice restaurant meal, and leave the cellphone at home so you don't perpetually obsess over her.

 

Remember that, in the end, it's the best for both of you.

 

Arabella

Edited March 21, 2010 by Arabella
spelling

[gtrplayer]

Wow! "hoping2heal" you have VERY VERY good points and I would say that you ARE in fact, on the mark as you put it.

 

Yea, I think because we BOTH have our own issues we are drawn and stay together. I think now, between us we have developed a dependancy issue on each other as well.

 

And yes, there is a bigger reason for me and my kid issue... you're right again, it's not that I "dislike" kids... I just never had them and now at 43 and a successful professional I really do not want them. So I truly do not know or understand what it means to have that love etc for a child and I respect that I don't know that. I'm selfish in that respect, but I can be, so it's ok...

 

However, you are also right in the fact that I should have never entered into this and/or stayed as long etc... hence I'm here on this forum.

 

Arabella: you mention "no contact" OMG!!! I can't imagine this! Why is that? Addiction??? Attachement?? When she DOES attempt to break up, this is one thing she pushes. She say, "don't call me, don't text me, don't bother me..." and I come back with..."how can you say that? How can you just "cut" it like that??" Wow! I just can't imagine that...

 

YET.... YET... I SO MUCH... so VERY much look forward to my solitude as you put it... MY time in the garage... MY time with my house chores, MY time with a walk with ME... MY time with my new sports car etc... just ME. I think what i'm saying is... is that it IS time for me to be with me now.

[LovelyDaze]

gtr, There is nothing wrong with you not wanting kids. Is it that your relationship has come to a crossroads where your GF is wanting you to live together or for you to participate in her sons' lives? If so, then that is what you both have naturally come to anyway.

 

She KNEW you didn't want to be involved with kids and you KNEW she had them. Somewhere deep inside she is probably hoping that you will relent a bit like your ex was probably hoping for on the kid issue. And of course you know your GF can't and won't give up her kids for you. So now what, right?

 

You have to make some kind of compromise. Being that the kids are already here, you two will need to talk about how and if you both can move forward positively in this relationship.

 

Even when her boys turn 18, they will still be a big part of her life. She will be helping them get thru college, marriages, her future grandchildren and so forth.They will never be "out of " her life accept possibly out of the home.

 

And on the issue of fidelity, that's another fork in the road. Do you feel deep down that you can trust her again?

 

Both if these issues are the 400 pound gorilla in the room that needs to be addressed so you two can either work hard at them or just part ways and move on.

[Arabella]

Arabella: you mention "no contact" OMG!!! I can't imagine this! Why is that? Addiction??? Attachement?? When she DOES attempt to break up, this is one thing she pushes. She say, "don't call me, don't text me, don't bother me..." and I come back with..."how can you say that? How can you just "cut" it like that??" Wow! I just can't imagine that...

 

YET.... YET... I SO MUCH... so VERY much look forward to my solitude as you put it... MY time in the garage... MY time with my house chores, MY time with a walk with ME... MY time with my new sports car etc... just ME. I think what i'm saying is... is that it IS time for me to be with me now.

 

You're addicted to the constant contact throughout the day and the emotional validation from her. If you don't cut it off, you will never truly let go from the relationship. Then, you'll have a double mess because you will be emotionally attached to a woman you're not even in a relationship with anymore.

 

That's probably where she's coming from when she asks you to let her be. It's either everything or nothing... if you can't be together because of the children, then you need to let her go COMPLETELY. Maybe down the line, when you are over each other and have moved on with your lives, you can be friends.

 

Arabella

[hoping2heal]

Wow! "hoping2heal" you have VERY VERY good points and I would say that you ARE in fact, on the mark as you put it.

 

Yea, I think because we BOTH have our own issues we are drawn and stay together. I think now, between us we have developed a dependancy issue on each other as well.

 

And yes, there is a bigger reason for me and my kid issue... you're right again, it's not that I "dislike" kids... I just never had them and now at 43 and a successful professional I really do not want them. So I truly do not know or understand what it means to have that love etc for a child and I respect that I don't know that. I'm selfish in that respect, but I can be, so it's ok...

 

However, you are also right in the fact that I should have never entered into this and/or stayed as long etc... hence I'm here on this forum.

 

Arabella: you mention "no contact" OMG!!! I can't imagine this! Why is that? Addiction??? Attachement?? When she DOES attempt to break up, this is one thing she pushes. She say, "don't call me, don't text me, don't bother me..." and I come back with..."how can you say that? How can you just "cut" it like that??" Wow! I just can't imagine that...

 

YET.... YET... I SO MUCH... so VERY much look forward to my solitude as you put it... MY time in the garage... MY time with my house chores, MY time with a walk with ME... MY time with my new sports car etc... just ME. I think what i'm saying is... is that it IS time for me to be with me now.

 

Okay well, here is WILD idea - and please understand that I'm absolutely not trying to push you into accepting the kids. I don't think you're a bad guy for being honest about them and if this is what you decide ultimately the only one who needs to be satisfied from that is you. That said - just entertain me for a wee bit here.

 

When we have trust issues, we also have "vulnerability" issues. So, it can be so much easier to retreat into oneself. Afterall when it's all about us - we are A1 driver in the seat, johnny on the spot, and controlling the wheel. We don't have to rely on any person and more importantly, we don't have to worry about anyone taking advantage of us and violating us and the trust we have given to them. We can ALWAYS feel like we are powerful and no one will ever take that from us. It might be percieved to others or even us - that we are acting "selfishly" but we are just acting cautiously. We are making sure we are protected.

 

Now, people like to attatch all these "dependency" terms when half the time that isn't even the case. In fact, if you are able to go to work- do your job- take a little me time- and be a productive person - then it is more likely that GASP you just really enjoy and love being with that person. It's not some kind of "sick obsession or unhealthy dependency". However, if you're calling in sick to work and you can't seem to function without the "yay or nay" of your partner? Well then yeah, please get yourself some help cybil. So there you have it, counter to what we learn or teach ourselves - there's nothing negative or bad about growing to really care and love another person. It's not a dysfunction, it's wonderful is what it is. It's beautiful, really beautiful. It's special and doesn't it make everything else so much more fun?

 

Now, the two of you may have your share of dysfunction for other reasons - but I will say - I have to hand it to your girl for cleaning up some of her act. That tells me that she really does have the potential with the right guidance and awareness to get healthier. Despite the fact that you both have made some destructive and self defeating choices I get the impression that you two have a very strong bond based on some very RIGHT things regardless. You yourself, also sound like you have your wits about you enough to get to a healthier place with all of this.

 

Again, I may be really off the mark here - but I think that you might possibly someday get to the place where you are able to be open with your emotions and realise that they don't have to destroy you and they aren't a source of weakness. Also, that in this certain case with this certain woman and these two certain kids- that maybe just MAYBE there is something there.

 

Just think about it.

[gtrplayer]

Yes, I know and I have thought about those things...quite a lot in fact.

 

However, there are also other issues with her as a person that are very concerning for me.... things that are just her as an individual that I KNOW I simply could not "live" with. Both emotionally and physically "live" with... how she feels about certain things/issues etc. She's very harsh and blunt to people...so much so that she ALWAYS gives the first impression to anyone as "not friendly"... I know differently, BUT I am intimate with her. Even little stuff like waitstaff... she gets complaints at work from people telling her boss that she's rude.

 

This is HER as a person though and cannot be changed... I've known this and became "numb" or tolerant of it and it's fine with me... BUT it does translate to how she is with me.

 

She ignors me often... doesn't like to hear, or better yet even TRY to understand MY side of things etc.

 

She is simply just not for me... I have lost friends because of her, I don't communicate with certain people in certain ways because of her. I even fired my housekeeper because of her... WEIRD I know, but that's that.

 

My point being is that it's not JUST the kids that are the issue.

 

Just now coming up the stairs I had the thought of us not being together... and it excites me!!! I can do what "I" want, when "I" want to... I can go where "I" want to go and visit my family if "I" want to... I can now begin to work on me! Yea, I will be lonely here and there...but I have friends and will make new ones and will actually have FUN doing things with friends and family.

 

With her, I have NO friends... VERY limited family interaction. (she has cut herself OUT of her own famliy and will not communicate at all with her parents because of something her dad said) I think she wants me to do that too! OMG! But yea, I have no friends that I do anything with... only her. I have nothing that "I" do without her except my work of which is sometimes and issue as well.

 

Again, my point is... it's not just the kids.. but it's STILL very very hard to actually make the difinitive call to "end it."

[hoping2heal]

Yes, I know and I have thought about those things...quite a lot in fact.

 

However, there are also other issues with her as a person that are very concerning for me.... things that are just her as an individual that I KNOW I simply could not "live" with. Both emotionally and physically "live" with... how she feels about certain things/issues etc. She's very harsh and blunt to people...so much so that she ALWAYS gives the first impression to anyone as "not friendly"... I know differently, BUT I am intimate with her. Even little stuff like waitstaff... she gets complaints at work from people telling her boss that she's rude.

 

This is HER as a person though and cannot be changed... I've known this and became "numb" or tolerant of it and it's fine with me... BUT it does translate to how she is with me.

 

She ignors me often... doesn't like to hear, or better yet even TRY to understand MY side of things etc.

 

She is simply just not for me... I have lost friends because of her, I don't communicate with certain people in certain ways because of her. I even fired my housekeeper because of her... WEIRD I know, but that's that.

 

My point being is that it's not JUST the kids that are the issue.

 

Just now coming up the stairs I had the thought of us not being together... and it excites me!!! I can do what "I" want, when "I" want to... I can go where "I" want to go and visit my family if "I" want to... I can now begin to work on me! Yea, I will be lonely here and there...but I have friends and will make new ones and will actually have FUN doing things with friends and family.

 

With her, I have NO friends... VERY limited family interaction. (she has cut herself OUT of her own famliy and will not communicate at all with her parents because of something her dad said) I think she wants me to do that too! OMG! But yea, I have no friends that I do anything with... only her. I have nothing that "I" do without her except my work of which is sometimes and issue as well.

 

Again, my point is... it's not just the kids.. but it's STILL very very hard to actually make the difinitive call to "end it."

 

Okay well, you know what is best for you - and that said even if it can't be applied to HER. I am hoping someday you will let yourself be close to someone and think about some of the things I've said about vulnerability and trust issues, and setting yourself up with an "escape". I hope someday you meet someone who really is good for you and with you - and you can let her into your life and be a part of your world.

 

If it's the end of the road with this lady then the only right thing to do is a clean break and NC. Don't leave any room for either of you to have any false hope and don't perpetuate the cycle here by giving in and contacting. You both need to move on to something that is more suited for you instead of hiding behind eachother. Best of luck

[gtrplayer]

Ok...well, "I" feel in my heart and bones that it IS in fact time to end this.

 

It's so hard to do... Now she is freaking out a little because "I" feel this way. See, I've NEVER truly felt that way... OR let her know that I feel that way I guess. But this time, I feel it and it's time, but it's so hard to do. I am, however, holding my ground and staying with my assertion that "it is time".....

 

We have significant vacation plans for mid April and are discussing how and if we would do that...

 

We have talked about possibly just "scaling back" the relationship and letting things diminish etc.. in lou of just cutting it off at the knees. Because we both have trouble doing that.

 

HOWEVER, the more I think about it,... it's just more of a mess "trying" to stay together for a while longer and start to distance ourselves from each other etc... I might be just better to hack it off and let it fall away.

 

Thoughts?

[ADF]

If you are so militant about not having kids, then this woman isn't right for you. Why do you cling to each other? I suspect because you've got no one else right now. As soon as another prospect shows up, my prediction is that whatever "codependency" you think you have with this woman will vanish like the morning mist.

[gtrplayer]

Ok... so the bottom line here.

 

Is it better to simply cut it off all at once and go No Contact?? if so why?

 

OR

 

Go through the motions and let it dissipate as we are trying to do...? is this really that wrong?

 

We know and agree that "eventually" this IS what MUST happen. But she is more hesitent now to really cut it. I'm ok with it either way...

[gtrplayer]

Ok...so we finally "cut" it... we went through a few days of very distant contact. Her ignoring my texts at night... limited to no communication. What happened was I learned that this IS what needs to be done, but lacked the strength to do it.

 

We talked today over the phone and I was just straight with her. It was VERY hard and very sad for me but I told her that we both know we need to end this and I know that I need to end this and we are now at the point to where one of us just need to deliver the final cut of everything and be done with it, but I just can't do it because I'm weak and I don't want to hurt anyone or make her mad etc....

 

She said that I was right and that yes, she understand that it IS time to end this and that she knows that I'm weak and can't do it, so SHE will do it and she did it!

 

Or so she says... I haven't heard from her and I plan to not txt her etc...

 

I feel EXTREMELY relieved, EXCITED, happy... and VERY Excited about my new life and doing the things that "I" want to do for ME! Taking care of ME and enjoying my friends and family that I have shoved off into a dark corner for two full years!!! I'm actually going to GO see my brother... AND I'm going to INVITE my parents to come STAY WITH MEEEE!! yay!!! I just want to smile every day now and just have FUN and enjoy life!!! Take a friend out to dinner!!! Meet a friend for lunch... HIRE MY HOUSEKEEPER BACK!!!!!! ha! Yayyyy!!!! Re-connect with my buddy I use to work with.... Wow... I just don't know where to start!!!!

 

BUT!!! BUT BUT BUT... it's also saddening at times when I stop to think about how sad she will be, how down she will be, how disapointed she will but and/or is... I HATE that feeling and it makes me very sad at the same time.... I just want to make sure she's ok...

 

So what is the best way to deal with such emotions????