emotional intimacy

[spookie]

what is it? where does it come from? is it developed over time, or the result of some magical, instantaneous connection? how important is it to you?

[Hot Carl]

It's the ability to "bond" and stay "bonded". It means being able to spend time together and also to communicate verbally or otherwise. It's the kind of connection you need in order to feel trusted, appreciated and accepted in each other's life.

 

It was lacking in my last relationship, which left me continually feeling stiff-armed and frustrated. Over time I became ok with it, because nothing I ever tried would change it, and I had a lot of independence at the same time I had a girlfriend I actually really cared about.

 

It's the real reason we're not together anymore. The roots just weren't deep enough. If you can go that long without it, then you'll never have it. And there is no future in a relationship like that. And it's relatively easy to throw it away.

[bac]

what is it? where does it come from? is it developed over time, or the result of some magical, instantaneous connection? how important is it to you?

 

I am a female. Emotional intimacy for me is the condition of mind of two partners when some of their emotional needs are met. My emotional needs are to be respected, accepted, liked, desirable, supported and similar basic stuff. It is a chip in the human brain but size of it is different.

As a generalization, the more estrogen in the system, the more important emotional intimacy. Desire for emotional intimacy is the basic drive to live for females as it is sexual drive for males.

If a girl finds a man who is able to give her emotional intimacy, it is definitely the result of some magic because it is hard to find.

For people who have the chip in their brains, the emotional connection is very important. For me the emotional connection is needed to produce sex drive in me.

[spookie]

thanks for the responses.

 

i posted because i question whether i am even able to form emotional connections anymore. in my teens and all the way through college, i viewed myself as "deep", with emotional connection being my forte. my ex and i, with whom i had a really strong emotional connection, would have philophical conversation about ourselves and human nature into the wee hours of the night, nearly every weekend. and when we didnt, i felt disconnected and lonely.

 

but now that i am solidly in my mid-twenties, i am finding the way i relate to people is different. i dont have any deep friendships left anymore (tho i think i have good friends), and my current r has not a whiff of that emotional crap that defined my old one. as one poster put it, the roots just arent deep, and i know i could walk away without ever looking back, or shedding a tear.

 

my own depth has become inaccessible to me. its given way to a hard-edged kind of practicality which has allowed me, for the first time in my life, to be happy.

 

still, i miss that emotional intimacy, and i hope i can find it with someone again. i am just not sure how.

[Hot Carl]

It might be due to some barriers you've put up that keep you from getting close to people. If you have enough disappointments and bad experiences, even if they weren't long term relationships, you can start to wall yourself off.

 

Or it may just be that you don't have that kind of chemistry with the guy you're with now.

[shadowplay]

I don't believe I'm fully capable of emotional intimacy with anyone. The closest I've ever gotten was an ex boyfriend with whom I was extremely close but there was no chemistry or attraction.

 

With my current boyfriend I'm very close but I don't feel that kind of tremendous bond you read about in books or see in movies (think Heathcliffe and Cathy in Wuthering Heights as an extreme example), and not even a close approximation of that. The problem is there's just a part of me that always holds back, that can't seem to fully connect with anyone but really wants to.

 

I think there was a point in my life where I was capable of that connection, when I was really young (a teenager), when I wanted it desperately, but unfortunately no guys were interested in me. That window passed and I hardened up after so many disappointments. I guess you could call it the loss of innocence. I lost it when I started settling for guys I was only lukewarm about, which killed the loneliness but desensitized me to feeling. When I was finally confident enough to be with guys that I actually wanted, I was no longer able to feel the same way about them. By settling I lost respect for other people and myself. I started seeing them as disposable. While, I've stopped thinking in those terms, the ability to connect hasn't returned.

 

I don't think it's something that you ever get back.

Edited March 21, 2010 by shadowplay

[carhill]

as one poster put it, the roots just arent deep, and i know i could walk away without ever looking back, or shedding a tear.

 

OK, so what causes you to not accept that as your truth? Why do you seek another path?

 

Personally, lack of romantic success, most recently evidenced by divorce, has not deterred me in forming other types of emotionally intimate bonds. Why should it? Life is a journey. In some efforts we succeed. In others we fail. Then we die. Why avoid a desired potential (like being emotionally intimate, if that is what one wants) today when one could be ashes tomorrow?

[shadowplay]

OK, so what causes you to not accept that as your truth? Why do you seek another path?

 

Personally, lack of romantic success, most recently evidenced by divorce, has not deterred me in forming other types of emotionally intimate bonds. Why should it? Life is a journey. In some efforts we succeed. In others we fail. Then we die. Why avoid a desired potential (like being emotionally intimate, if that is what one wants) today when one could be ashes tomorrow?

 

But it's possible to really want that emotional connection and lack the ability to form it. That's true for me, and it may be for Spookie as well. For me it's not like I'm fighting against a desire to detach. It's more like if I just let things happen naturally I'll stay detached (that's how I'm wired). I have to try to force something deeper, but even then I can't seem to accomplish it.

 

It's interesting that both Spookie and I are able to feel that deep emotional bond when we admire somebody from a distance. What I feel at those times is similar I would guess to how normal people experience emotional intimacy. I have these moments of clarity where I feel it for somebody I don't know. But I can't seem to ever feel it for somebody I'm close to. It's kind of a curse.

 

I see more promise for Spookie, though, because at least she was able to feel it with one guy she was close to which means she's probably capable of it again.

 

This isn't to say I can't love. I do feel love, but I only really feel it strongly when I think about losing the person that I care about.

Edited March 21, 2010 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

Based on my very limited experience I wonder if men are somewhat more capable on average of emotional intimacy than women. I could be totally off about this. I've also kind of gotten this vibe from reading thousands of LS threads about how and why relationships ended.

[carhill]

I'll wear out my quote:

 

OK, so what causes you to not accept that as your truth? Why do you seek another path?

I think, with sufficient introspection and perhaps help, you can discover this. We tried to get to this place in MC, but, ultimately, my stbx said, clearly, 'I can never give you that'. And, so, it was done.

 

IMO, if you can accept your detachment and find a compatibly detached man, you can have a healthy (for you and him) relationship. You form your bonds, intimacy and relationship successes differently. The key is acceptance. Accepting who you are. Then, if you want more for yourself, work on that, for yourself.

[shadowplay]

I'll wear out my quote:

 

I think, with sufficient introspection and perhaps help, you can discover this. We tried to get to this place in MC, but, ultimately, my stbx said, clearly, 'I can never give you that'. And, so, it was done.

 

IMO, if you can accept your detachment and find a compatibly detached man, you can have a healthy (for you and him) relationship. You form your bonds, intimacy and relationship successes differently. The key is acceptance. Accepting who you are. Then, if you want more for yourself, work on that, for yourself.

 

I don't know. My ex was emotionally detached and it drove me crazy. I feel infinitely happier in a relationship with somebody who is able to give himself completely. I just wish I could do the same.

[carhill]

My ex was emotionally detached and it drove me crazy.

This is really key.....why? Why do you feel it drove you 'crazy'? What was it, specifically? IMO, and I believe it to be the case with my failed marriage, relationships exist, in some form, to teach us and help us grow as people.

 

Your current BF, does he 'give of himself completely'? How is your emotional response different? Why?

 

I submit these questions as a form of mirroring. I understand such issues are private. My old signature line, about caring less, could be relevant, IDK. Many options can be examined. I tend to equate caring 'more' with aspects of emotional intimacy, but YMMV. Hope you find a path which is satisfying for you

[bac]

 

I feel just the opposite problem, if I have a sexual partner who I like and enjoy sex with. And, the men are not able to form any emotional attachment.

 

'I really want that emotional detachment and I lack the natural ability to achieve it. For me it's like I'm fighting very hard against a desire to attach. It's more like if I just let things happen naturally I'll stay attached (that's how I'm wired).

 

Shadowplay and Spookie, do you want to get married and have kids someday?

[White Flower]

what is it? where does it come from? is it developed over time, or the result of some magical, instantaneous connection? how important is it to you?

It is very important to a lasting R.

 

It develops over time as both partners can express their brutally raw emotions and express who they really are knowing the full risk of rejection and being accepted anyway. It is not magical or instantaneous but can feel that way from the start as long as both parties commit to acting that way from the start.

 

Emotional intimacy is a very beautiful thing.

[deux ex machina]

what is it? where does it come from? is it developed over time, or the result of some magical, instantaneous connection? how important is it to you?

 

I believe that emotional intimacy is developed over time. Trust, acceptance, and loyalty are established along the way in tandem with it.

 

I don't think it's instantaneous. It takes time, and I don't think it can be established with just anyone. You have to be on the same wavelength.

 

It is profoundly important to me.

[mammax3]

I heartedly agree with white flower - brutally raw emotions and still be accepted after that. One feels so safe with the person that they're able to express private thoughts or feellings.

 

IME, men have a different 'threshold' of what constitutes EI. For some women who discuss and analyze everything with friends or family, having a man tell her a private piece of what makes him tick may not be recognized as a Big Deal since she discusses similar sorts of things frequently. As a result, a missed moment of EI building can be lost, and possibly the man will continue to avoid creating it since a first attempt wasn't well received. Later on the woman will complain that there's no EI in the relationship.

 

This same can be said for women, of course, the above is just my limited experience.

 

So that being said, I think it's something which is built on trust and communication and safety, not a magical Aha! moment.

[threebyfate]

There's no way to attain emotional intimacy, without a connection that's based on mutual empathy. When you're spending all your time thinking "me, me, me", there will never be a "we" or "us".

[shadowplay]

There's no way to attain emotional intimacy, without a connection that's based on mutual empathy. When you're spending all your time thinking "me, me, me", there will never be a "we" or "us".

 

I spend a lot of time thinking about my boyfriend and I care about him a huge amount. I love making him feel appreciated and loved, and I often experience feelings in tandem with him (when he feels sad I feel sad, when he feels happy, I feel happy).

 

But still I can feel all this and there's some missing component that I've never been able to achieve with anyone. I know that deep emotional intimacy is missing is by reading about how others describe being deeply in love and also recognizing the feeling in passing form.

 

But maybe I'm expecting too much? I don't know.

[threebyfate]

I spend a lot of time thinking about my boyfriend and I care about him a huge amount. I love making him feel appreciated and loved, and I often experience feelings in tandem with him (when he feels sad I feel sad, when he feels happy, I feel happy).

 

But still I can feel all this and there's some missing component that I've never been able to achieve with anyone. I know that deep emotional intimacy is missing is by reading about how others describe being deeply in love and also recognizing the feeling in passing form.

 

But maybe I'm expecting too much? I don't know.

Do you experience his emotions as they relate to you or do you really feel his sadness deeply and want to take his pain away?

[shadowplay]

Do you experience his emotions as they relate to you or do you really feel his sadness deeply and want to take his pain away?

 

No, it's definitely the latter. His emotions rarely relate to me in a negative way, because he's not hot and cold like my ex was. But whenever he's sad about something, I feel a strong desire to take care of him and make him happy.

[carhill]

OP, sorry I got side-tracked with Shadow... For myself, the ability to be emotionally intimate, care, show empathy, all those things, exists within me every second of every day. There also exists a valve, a faucet of sorts, which I turn on as much as and when I *choose* to. It can go wide open or just a trickle or nothing; black hole. TBH, a lifetime of women perceiving that faucet opening as a negative attraction factor has not deterred me. I just am more particular, especially with women, who I choose to open it with. With others, family, close friends and even the occasional stranger who moves me, they get the full beneficial effect.

 

The main fail in my marriage was that, by her own admission, my stbx knew she could share anything with me and I would listen, care and support her but the reality that it wasn't a two-way street wasn't immediately recognized until I was sufficiently drained of that caring and support where I started to say 'hey, I need support and care too'. That was the lesson. We had incompatible styles of intimacy and my cries of 'I need help here' were not in a language stbx understood and evidently didn't care to. Now, I still show the same intimacy style, but require reciprocation and mutual care, support and empathy. I've experienced this boundary enforcement since beginning dating again. If not received, I understand that we are incompatible, so say bye-bye, and I have.

 

IMO, if you have the ability to turn that faucet wide open easily, 'instant intimacy' is possible. Whether it is healthy or not only time and experience can decide. IME, personally, such instances have not been healthy once judged by the passage of time and experience. YMMV.

[shadowplay]

OP, sorry I got side-tracked with Shadow... For myself, the ability to be emotionally intimate, care, show empathy, all those things, exists within me every second of every day. There also exists a valve, a faucet of sorts, which I turn on as much as and when I *choose* to. It can go wide open or just a trickle or nothing; black hole. TBH, a lifetime of women perceiving that faucet opening as a negative attraction factor has not deterred me. I just am more particular, especially with women, who I choose to open it with. With others, family, close friends and even the occasional stranger who moves me, they get the full beneficial effect.

 

The main fail in my marriage was that, by her own admission, my stbx knew she could share anything with me and I would listen, care and support her but the reality that it wasn't a two-way street wasn't immediately recognized until I was sufficiently drained of that caring and support where I started to say 'hey, I need support and care too'. That was the lesson. We had incompatible styles of intimacy and my cries of 'I need help here' were not in a language stbx understood and evidently didn't care to. Now, I still show the same intimacy style, but require reciprocation and mutual care, support and empathy. I've experienced this boundary enforcement since beginning dating again. If not received, I understand that we are incompatible, so say bye-bye, and I have.

 

IMO, if you have the ability to turn that faucet wide open easily, 'instant intimacy' is possible. Whether it is healthy or not only time and experience can decide. IME, personally, such instances have not been healthy once judged by the passage of time and experience. YMMV.

 

Were you originally attracted to women who were emotionally unavailable? I ask because of your history with women who didn't appreciate you. I'm also surprised you got involved with your stbx. I think that kind of emotional coldness comes through pretty early on, even in the early courtship stages. It sounds like you've adjusted your woman picker now, which is good.

 

Also, I'm a bit curious to know how your open faucet thin manifests in behavior. Were you the kind of guy who would tell a woman that you love her all the time, bend over backwards to please her, etc.?

 

Sorry to bombard you with questions.

[spookie]

thanks for the responses everyone. its interesting how everyones definition of emotional intimacy is a little bit different. like sp, what i consider to be emotional connection is a feeling that is somewhat hazy and difficult to define. it relates to a primal kind of sadness, an inherent loneliness of the human condition, that love is the antidote to. at least, my love with my exbf, was the antidote to this overwhelming loneliness i had felt my whole life.

 

in the past couple of years, however, this "primal sadness" has left me. maybe i have gotten older, finally outgrowing my teen angst. maybe i have learned to be alone. maybe the accumulation of all my disappointments has rendered me jaded.

 

either way, i just dont feel things as i used to. and with my inability to feel lonely, i cant feel love with the same i will die if i lose you intensity i once did. because i know that i wont.

[threebyfate]

No, it's definitely the latter. His emotions rarely relate to me in a negative way, because he's not hot and cold like my ex was. But whenever he's sad about something, I feel a strong desire to take care of him and make him happy.

Then give it time. This connection might grow or not. One thing's for certain, your feelings for him have already grown over the last few months.

 

As far as looking to someone else to make you whole (not you shadow but spookie), that's not emotional intimacy. That's a codependency.

[spookie]

in that case, codependency sure feels good.