Do women understand this about men?

[crazycatlady]

I remember when we were having some problems and I felt that he wasn't hearing me. So I wrote a long letter so there would be no mistakes about how I was feeling. I gave him the letter to read and waited. He read the letter went "ok" and tucked it away. I was like "you don't have anything to say about that?" and he responded "what is there to say, it was about how you feel".

 

If I had given it to a woman (most likely) we would have sat down and hashed out what those feelings were and why I was feeling that way and how I might could feel better etc. But in his mind, it wasn't a problem, per say, so he just acknowledged it and went on his business. Now he did start trying to make sure he thanked me when I did things and try to notice what I did a little more which was basically what I was after, but he did not want to sit down and talk about those things.

 

Now that was wow 6 or 7 years ago. Its hard to believe its been that long ago, but I guess it has. And I had come to feel more comfortable with the base assumption. But he did rock the boat with his affair. He's selfish and a conflict avoider, and the affair wasn't about lack of love for me, and in his mind the base assumption is still "I love you, you love me, we are good" and i'm finding myself back hovering over that pit thinking that some reassurances would be a good thing emotionally. I haven't been going over board with it, but when he does something that helps me feel safe again, I let him know that I've been missing that. And slowly over the past 4 months I've felt him recommitting himself more and more to me and I know it was never about me, it was a crisis in him that I couldn't help with because he did not wish to worry me (his words), the affair was just an outward sign of it.

 

CCL

[Samantha0905]

I had a conversation with an "enlightened" woman at work. I was surprised to find that she really didn't know that men don't think 24/7 about their relationships.

 

I told her that most men think "I love her and she loves me" and then they flip the channel. Not only do men NOT analyze every detail of a relationship, they barely even analyze the "I love her and she loves me" part that they ARE thinking.

 

Unless the woman makes it obvious that there is a problem, men are oblivious. We're not stupid, we just trust that we are loved.

So, the first time a problem crops up, the man is honestly interested in solving the actual problem. He has NO idea how to do it and will probably unwittingly fail but he is interested in the real problem. The SECOND (or so) time the problem arises, the man THINKS this was already covered and the problem becomes that the woman is yelling again. This time the man looks for a solution to the yelling "problem" and ignores the real problem.

 

This is key: when the yelling stops, the man goes right back to "I love her and she loves me". For a man there is almost nothing that can damage the baseline of love (cheating being one of the few that can) because the problems are blips on top of the baseline. For a woman the "baseline" is much higher--in the analytical intellect--and problems ERODE the baseline down. There is no solid floor of "I love him, he loves me" in a woman's mind. It's an open pit down there that she is constantly fighting to hold herself above.

 

This made me think of my first visit to my counselor. He said before we got going he wanted to know whether or not I felt 100% certain I wanted out of my marriage. I told him I was not. He said good because most of the time when women come for counseling about their marriage they've pretty much made their mind up about the decision. He said with men it's different -- they don't know there is a problem until they are dragged to the first counseling session.

 

No offense meant.

 

Thanks.

 

Doesn't it sometimes feel like you're communicating with an alien?

 

You: Honey, can you stop doing abc issue? It's annoying.

Him: Grok, grok, grok, the sky is blue.

You: No, that's not what I'm talking about. Can we address the abc issue?

Him: Blurble, I'm hungry. Feed me and it will all be fine.

You: &*%@^(###!!!!

 

Oh my goodness -- that really made me laugh!!

[blind_otter]

Ah yes, effective communication is the solution to the problem, but simply recognizing that the basic difference exists is the first step.

 

I guess I hang out in the wrong circles, I don't know any men who have learned this. They are all the "grok, grok, the sky is blue", type and really don't even care to discuss the issue.

 

I think it's a continuum with a lot of men - the differences being that some men are able to maintain this higher level of emotional intimacy and not trying to "fix" things all the time, while others are only able to attain this state during a crisis point, or rarely if at all.

 

It's funny, though, if a woman has this type of black and white thinking, she is labeled with borderline personality disorder and thrown under the bus, whereas this is simply thought of as a common male way of thinking. Phbt.

[Woggle]

I don't know if it is that simple but most men feel that if they are not at each other's throats 24/7 that things are fine because that is how life is. Women take this approach from men as a lack of emotion or a lack of love when in reality it is a realization that most things are not meant to be picked apart to h. Some women pick a relationship apart until there is nothing left. This doesn't apply to all men or all women but I think if more women learned to just enjoy the moments of a relationship instead of picking everything apart they would have more success. At the same time men can learn to listen if a woman raises an issue.

[crazycatlady]

I don't know if it is that simple but most men feel that if they are not at each other's throats 24/7 that things are fine because that is how life is. Women take this approach from men as a lack of emotion or a lack of love when in reality it is a realization that most things are not meant to be picked apart to h. Some women pick a relationship apart until there is nothing left. This doesn't apply to all men or all women but I think if more women learned to just enjoy the moments of a relationship instead of picking everything apart they would have more success. At the same time men can learn to listen if a woman raises an issue.

 

This makes me think of the line "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Of course that also brings to mind something else. In a general sense, since we are talking generalities here, women talking about a relationship and how it can be improved isn't always so much a discussion of how awful the relationship is, but rather its a discussion on how the relationship could get better. Plus discussion helps women grow in themselves and in the relationship. Its not always a negative thing when they want to discuss things, but rather its their way to assess that everything is good.

 

Women talk about things to process (much like sleep is used to process what you learn) men have a difficult time with just discussing things, they want to find solution and fix and be done with it.

 

Again this is in general, and while i think its over 50% that fit this, I don't think its like 90%.

 

And Woggle, I know it means little to you, but I really admire the effort you are making here. I just wanted to say I'm impressed.

 

CCL

[Woggle]

This makes me think of the line "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Of course that also brings to mind something else. In a general sense, since we are talking generalities here, women talking about a relationship and how it can be improved isn't always so much a discussion of how awful the relationship is, but rather its a discussion on how the relationship could get better. Plus discussion helps women grow in themselves and in the relationship. Its not always a negative thing when they want to discuss things, but rather its their way to assess that everything is good.

 

Women talk about things to process (much like sleep is used to process what you learn) men have a difficult time with just discussing things, they want to find solution and fix and be done with it.

 

Again this is in general, and while i think its over 50% that fit this, I don't think its like 90%.

 

And Woggle, I know it means little to you, but I really admire the effort you are making here. I just wanted to say I'm impressed.

 

CCL

 

It means something. I really am trying to get rid of this baggage.

 

I think also that when women want to discuss the relationship many men feel like they are going to a police interrogation and quite honestly that is the way some women handle it. There is no worse feeling for a man in a relationship than feeling like he can't do anything right. That is when men emotionally shut down.

[spriggig]

All this totally depends on the man. A male who is extremely insecure may obsess about a relationship constantly. I think making generalizations can be very dangerous and certainly not informative.

 

How are "generalizations very dangerous and not informative" in the context of a discussion board?

 

Is there danger in discussion? Did you not just offer the information that "insecure [men] may obsess about a relationship constantly."?

[spriggig]

So for those of you who are saying that "not all men are like this" (and I agree), how many had to LEARN not to be like this?

[norajane]

I think also that when women want to discuss the relationship many men feel like they are going to a police interrogation and quite honestly that is the way some women handle it. There is no worse feeling for a man in a relationship than feeling like he can't do anything right. That is when men emotionally shut down.

 

I agree this, and I think it completely contradicts what spriggig is saying about how men view problems - that they don't think a problem erodes the baseline of "I love her and she loves me." So, this contradiction is confusing. Either men see problems as a big deal or not, but I think it depends on the man.

 

Spriggig, your OP also seems to only be about problems that women raise. What about problems that men might have? Do you think a man's problems with the woman in his life are the kind that erode baseline, or is the baseline still solid?

[crazycatlady]

It means something. I really am trying to get rid of this baggage.

 

I think also that when women want to discuss the relationship many men feel like they are going to a police interrogation and quite honestly that is the way some women handle it. There is no worse feeling for a man in a relationship than feeling like he can't do anything right. That is when men emotionally shut down.

 

And I know a lot of women who act just like that, too. Because if the right answer isn't given, then BOOOOOM the woman explodes. And goes crying off to her friend, who helps convince her she's right that he is a rat b****** for whatever reason.

 

Generalities and stereotypes are important to discuss because there are a lot of people do not think beyond them.

 

Every now and then it has happened....he just got back into town and on his way home I did ask him if he missed me because I was feeling a little unsure of things. I think because I don't normally ask questions like that, because I don't play those types of games, he must have sensed I was needing something and gave me some really beautiful wonderful reassurances that I was needing. But I wasn't doing it to bait and trap him. And he knew it.

 

CCL

[Samantha0905]

I don't know if it is that simple but most men feel that if they are not at each other's throats 24/7 that things are fine because that is how life is. Women take this approach from men as a lack of emotion or a lack of love when in reality it is a realization that most things are not meant to be picked apart to h. Some women pick a relationship apart until there is nothing left. This doesn't apply to all men or all women but I think if more women learned to just enjoy the moments of a relationship instead of picking everything apart they would have more success. At the same time men can learn to listen if a woman raises an issue.

 

I don't think I need to be at someone's throat and don't think in terms of picking things apart. I simply like to communicate intimately and passionately sometimes -- not as in arguing, but just discussing shared interests, etc. It gets awfully lonely for a woman when that does not exist. I imagine for some men also. I've never liked to argue or to pick things apart. I do like passionate discussions -- but I don't mean ugliness. I want a good friend who listens to me. I want to be the same for my partner.

[Jersey Shortie]

Interesting male perspectives that I didn't really know about.

[spriggig]

Spriggig, your OP also seems to only be about problems that women raise. What about problems that men might have? Do you think a man's problems with the woman in his life are the kind that erode baseline, or is the baseline still solid?

 

In my limited experience, based on three, long-term GF's, my 12 year marriage with one woman and the discussions I've had at work, a man's view of problems in a relationship is normally limited to the scope of the present problem--they are almost all blips above the baseline.

 

Now, are ANY of them the kind that can erode the baseline? Sure, but the problem needs to be HUGE and OBVIOUS to knock him out of the fog, so to speak. I think a problem that "erodes the baseline" is a problem that will likely kill the marriage.

 

If it's money, the house needs to be in foreclosure. If it's sex, he needs to both want it badly and not get it at all (because men are used to dealing with no sex on their own). If it's love, the wife needs to completely shut him out, push him away and possibly even break up with him. AND, the problem needs to happen quickly rather than over an extended period--it's the "frog doesn't know the water is boiling" idea.

 

Finally, on both sides, the love is never gone completely, the shards remain in the heart and hope tries to put it back together from time to time for years afterward.

 

BTW, I also think this can happen in reverse with the woman playing the man's part and the man the woman's , I just think it's far more common for the man to be oblivious.

[threebyfate]

I just think it's far more common for the man to be oblivious.

Do you feel this is tied in any way, to the "not listening" issue?

[carhill]

Whilst reading about 'hormones' and 'altered states' in another thread, I'm inclined to opine there are a lot of men who dismiss with 'not listening' rantings they believe to be crazy, outrageous and non-sensical. They turn into the bobble-headed dog and start running sport stats through their mind. This is a critical error, IMO. If you listen, people speak their truth. It pays to listen