tami-chan Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Well, to be correct, young women have it easier. A disproportionate amount of a woman's mate value is tied up in her looks. That's a double-edged sword as looks are a rapidly depreciating asset. Assuming we're talking about dating in the context of finding a marriage partner, neither men nor women "have it easier" through every stage of life. I agree, like I said when it comes to MARRIAGE, it is always quite a dicey situation as one does not want to end up with a dud ( like those guys who plan to go to West Va and the Appalachian in order not to be considered a loser ).
JustJoe Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Please be kind to West Virginians and Appalachians. A friend of mine from there was killed in action. He was definitely NOT a loser.
tami-chan Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Please be kind to West Virginians and Appalachians. A friend of mine from there was killed in action. He was definitely NOT a loser. Oh JustJoe, I am sorry to hear that. I actually did not say that the WV/Appalachian bit, I could quote the person who did, but why bother?
Chicago_Guy Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Around me, I observe successful, albeit average-looking, early 30's career women who have trouble dating. They work 50+ hours a week, climbing the career ladder. These ladies think "well, I want a successful guy, so I must be successful myself". They focus their ambition on their work, because they want a guy like that. Of course, working that much, they let their bodies slide towards overweight terrain. However... like I said before, guys want youth and beauty. If these career women spent 1 less hour in the office everyday, and used that daily hour in the gym instead, their dating life would be much improved. You raise a valid point, although many men would not consider a lot of these women to be suitable mates even if they weren't overweight. I have found that a lot of women who work a lot of hours are very self-absorbed, demanding, argumentative, and generally not very feminine. Some women like that think that if they are reasonably attractive and financially successful, guys will just fall for them. However, it doesn't quite work like that and many men really do want more than just a pretty face if it masks a negative or otherwise crappy personality. Being a lawyer or doctor may add a little bit of value, but I really don't think it adds as much as the people on this thread seem to think. Maybe the type of lawyers who have no problem dropping a lot of money of dates do ok, but most lawyers aren't like that. I live in a big city and know many lawyers who struggle with dating. The only male lawyers I can think of who always seem to be dating are often dating unattractive women. I was at an attorney Christmas party for a law firm for which I was working a few years ago and my girlfriend at the time even remarked that just about all of the attorneys who were married had ugly wives.
Tnerforireyeh Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) I'll bang anything over a 4. If/when it comes to a long-term mate, I think of myself and her at a cocktail party, and what my colleagues/friends/family would think of her there with me. Her job, in that case, would be pretty much meaningless. I would care more about 1) her looks 2) her social ability/poise/manners 3) probably her family background/wealth. If a girl is good looking she can pretty much do whatever she wants, within reason. She can't get stupid drunk, throw up in the punch bowl and pass out on the floor. But pretty much everything else LOL. Beautiful women are in a league of their own. Most guys won't even ask them what their job is because it really doesn't matter... their looks are who they are. I knew a girl in my medical/legal school (won't say which) who graduated, and then moved to Vegas to dance. She was the most beautiful woman I ever knew, couldn't go anywhere without men asking her out. Blonde, almost 6 feet tall, absolute 10 on every scale. (Super nice girl too, I mean the sweetest, most personable girl I've ever met.) Well she met a rich guy in Vegas within less than 3 months of moving there and now they're engaged. He's about 10 years older than she. She's mid-20s. My point is that she gave up being a professional to use her real assets. She was no dummy, and was smart enough to realize that no matter how smart she was, her beauty was what men wanted most. Edited March 23, 2010 by Tnerforireyeh
tami-chan Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 You raise a valid point, although many men would not consider a lot of these women to be suitable mates even if they weren't overweight. I have found that a lot of women who work a lot of hours are very self-absorbed, demanding, argumentative, and generally not very feminine. Some women like that think that if they are reasonably attractive and financially successful, guys will just fall for them. However, it doesn't quite work like that and many men really do want more than just a pretty face if it masks a negative or otherwise crappy personality. Being a lawyer or doctor may add a little bit of value, but I really don't think it adds as much as the people on this thread seem to think. Maybe the type of lawyers who have no problem dropping a lot of money of dates do ok, but most lawyers aren't like that. I live in a big city and know many lawyers who struggle with dating. The only male lawyers I can think of who always seem to be dating are often dating unattractive women. I was at an attorney Christmas party for a law firm for which I was working a few years ago and my girlfriend at the time even remarked that just about all of the attorneys who were married had ugly wives. So really what you are saying is that none of these things ( being a lawyer, doctor, young, beautiful, older, ugly, uneducated, educated), profoundly matter, right? What then matters?
sweetjasmine Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 If/when it comes to a long-term mate, I think of myself and her at a cocktail party, and what my colleagues/friends/family would think of her there with me. I think you meant to write "trophy" instead of "long-term mate." My point is that she gave up being a professional to use her real assets. She was no dummy, and was smart enough to realize that no matter how smart she was, her beauty was what men wanted most. And what she wanted most was a sugar daddy. How impressive.
tami-chan Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 I'll bang anything over a 4. If/when it comes to a long-term mate, I think of myself and her at a cocktail party, and what my colleagues/friends/family would think of her there with me. Her job, in that case, would be pretty much meaningless. I would care more about 1) her looks 2) her social ability/poise/manners 3) probably her family background/wealth. If a girl is good looking she can pretty much do whatever she wants, within reason. She can't get stupid drunk, throw up in the punch bowl and pass out on the floor. But pretty much everything else LOL. Beautiful women are in a league of their own. Most guys won't even ask them what their job is because it really doesn't matter... their looks are who they are. I knew a girl in my medical/legal school (won't say which) who graduated, and then moved to Vegas to dance. She was the most beautiful woman I ever knew, couldn't go anywhere without men asking her out. Blonde, almost 6 feet tall, absolute 10 on every scale. (Super nice girl too, I mean the sweetest, most personable girl I've ever met.) Well she met a rich guy in Vegas within less than 3 months of moving there and now they're engaged. He's about 10 years older than she. She's mid-20s. My point is that she gave up being a professional to use her real assets. She was no dummy, and was smart enough to realize that no matter how smart she was, her beauty was what men wanted most. She is a 10 all around! and marrying a 10 also, presumably - good for them! A perfect pair.
Leia Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 I knew a girl in my medical/legal school (won't say which) who graduated, and then moved to Vegas to dance. She was the most beautiful woman I ever knew, couldn't go anywhere without men asking her out. Blonde, almost 6 feet tall, absolute 10 on every scale. (Super nice girl too, I mean the sweetest, most personable girl I've ever met.) Well she met a rich guy in Vegas within less than 3 months of moving there and now they're engaged. He's about 10 years older than she. She's mid-20s. My point is that she gave up being a professional to use her real assets. She was no dummy, and was smart enough to realize that no matter how smart she was, her beauty was what men wanted most. Reminds me of a local Math prodigy that was accepted into Oxford University at the age of 13. She ended up being a social escort.
Chicago_Guy Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 So really what you are saying is that none of these things ( being a lawyer, doctor, young, beautiful, older, ugly, uneducated, educated), profoundly matter, right? What then matters? If a man is a lawyer or doctor, it might add a little bit, not that much in the eyes of young women. Most men who are educated do want an educated woman, but not one who works so much that she doesn't have very much time for them. Men want a woman who is pretty and if they are looking for a potential wife, the woman's age will definitely matter. Men also generally want a woman who has a good chance of bearing healthy children, so that typically prefer a woman who is at least a little younger than they are. (Although if they are just dating, the woman's age might not matter than much.) All other things being equal, I would view a woman who is a doctor in a favorable light.
JustJoe Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Then apparently she was like a lot of college girls, more interested in husband hunting, than studying. This is nothing new. Sororities are full of pretty, sexually active, young women, looking for fun and a husband. I used to have sex with 3 or 4 a week, then promptly would forget them.
tami-chan Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 If a man is a lawyer or doctor, it might add a little bit, not that much in the eyes of young women. Most men who are educated do want an educated woman, but not one who works so much that she doesn't have very much time for them. Men want a woman who is pretty and if they are looking for a potential wife, the woman's age will definitely matter. Men also generally want a woman who has a good chance of bearing healthy children, so that typically prefer a woman who is at least a little younger than they are. (Although if they are just dating, the woman's age might not matter than much.) Well..ok, that's understandable and actually fair, imho. I mean, why marry someone in her late 30's if you want children, right? All other things being equal, I would view a woman who is a doctor in a favorable light. very nice...
Els Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Around me, I observe successful, albeit average-looking, early 30's career women who have trouble dating. They work 50+ hours a week, climbing the career ladder. These ladies think "well, I want a successful guy, so I must be successful myself". They focus their ambition on their work, because they want a guy like that. Of course, working that much, they let their bodies slide towards overweight terrain. However... like I said before, guys want youth and beauty. If these career women spent 1 less hour in the office everyday, and used that daily hour in the gym instead, their dating life would be much improved. No, people (both men and women) don't reach for success just because they think "well, I want a successful guy, so I must be successful myself"! Okay, how about this. What if the woman ditched her high-flying job for a 9-4 typist job, which gives her, omg, 3 extra hours a day to go to the gym, beauty spas, hair salons, you name it. (Although frankly I've no idea how she'll have the money to afford the best stylists and cosmetics - which DO make a difference). But - she can't find a good man. Either guys just want to be FWBs, or they don't want to get serious with her, whatever. But since she'd ditched her high-flying job to be more attractive to the opposite sex, she's screwed, ain't she? And then maybe she meets a potential mate who's successful and rich - but he'll have serious doubts because she has a job that earns less than half what his does, AND she spends most of her money on the gym, sexy clothes, hair salons, cosmetics, etc, to look hot. Would he want to finance her if they marry? Would he want to have to take the greater financial burden for their house, car, etc? Would YOU? Giving up one's successful career just to have more time to look hot has got to be the dumbest advice I've ever seen on these boards. To take care of the kids, maybe. Because she doesn't feel personal satisfaction, maybe. But to look hotter and have a higher chance of attracting a SHALLOW mate?? I sincerely hope no impressionable young women come around here and read your post.
Els Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 If a man is a lawyer or doctor, it might add a little bit, not that much in the eyes of young women. Most men who are educated do want an educated woman, but not one who works so much that she doesn't have very much time for them. Men want a woman who is pretty and if they are looking for a potential wife, the woman's age will definitely matter. Men also generally want a woman who has a good chance of bearing healthy children, so that typically prefer a woman who is at least a little younger than they are. (Although if they are just dating, the woman's age might not matter than much.) All other things being equal, I would view a woman who is a doctor in a favorable light. Really, you'd like a doctor as a mate if you're sure you want to have several children? Are you prepared to sacrifice your own career to take care of them if she cannot, then? Because no full-time doctor will ever be able to be the main parent, unless she's already established her niche in certain 'relaxing' specialties.
Els Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Alright, let me put this in a simpler manner. When you focus on your career, it's good for your own life and your own future. When you focus on being hot to attract the opposite sex, you are relying on OTHERS for your own life and future. And I thought you guys didn't like being relied on financially and all that? What DO you think the woman who ditched her great job for one that allows her to be hotter but barely pays the bills will do, hm? Also, if looking hot is priority above her JOB, then you can bet you'll be paying for her multiple beauty bills, too. Honestly, you don't have to answer, though. We're talking about people looking for relationships - not the FWB ONS sex that you're looking for. Trust me - NO woman will find it worth it to give up her job to look hot for you to bang for one night, so in your case the point is moot.
Els Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Also, don't you find the utter hypocrisy of all this quite hilarious? You want a woman to sacrifice her CAREER so she can look hotter (but men shouldn't, oh no), but you also don't want to pay more than 50% of your share for a date because you're both supposedly equal (even though she's being paid less and spending all of that on looking hot)? Dream on, dude.
Chicago_Guy Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Really, you'd like a doctor as a mate if you're sure you want to have several children? Are you prepared to sacrifice your own career to take care of them if she cannot, then? Because no full-time doctor will ever be able to be the main parent, unless she's already established her niche in certain 'relaxing' specialties. I doubt that there are many female doctors married to stay-at-home husbands and I bet that most of those women do want or already have children. I know that medical students are always studying and residents work ridiculous hours. However, certain types of doctors don't seem to work long hours. How many doctors actually work five days a week anyway?
Chicago_Guy Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 Strange, considering that those are among the most prestigious professions in the eyes of both men and women: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/20050515_CLASS_GRAPHIC/index_01.html Maybe it's because of where I live - there are a lot of professionals in my area, so women come in contact with a lot of them. I remember talking to some lawyers working in Silicon Valley in the late 90s and they told me that the dating scene was terrible for lawyers out there because the women were far more impressed with people at start-ups.
Els Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 I doubt that there are many female doctors married to stay-at-home husbands and I bet that most of those women do want or already have children. I know that medical students are always studying and residents work ridiculous hours. However, certain types of doctors don't seem to work long hours. How many doctors actually work five days a week anyway? No, but I don't know any female doctors who are the main parent in the family either. The husband doesn't necessarily stay at home, but he usually does work a less busy schedule and as such is at home for the kids more; and while he doesn't take care of them ALL the time, he usually takes care of them more than she does. In other cases where both parents are busy, either a grandparent, nanny, or aunt will take care of the kids. In both cases, it is nearly impossible for the woman to be the main parent. Yeah, once they become consultants and they choose a specialty which doesn't require much time, and have established themselves, they are a lot freer. However, the path there is long and hard, and many people don't reach it til their early-mid 30s at least. Not exactly the ideal time biologically to start trying for kids, if you really want them all that much.
Eve Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 argh.. discuss.. And I'm curious, are there men who only date women who have certain titles or income levels? I used to exclusively date wealthy men. It was fun. I married a normal man (an engineer) who is the most intelligent man.. but really unmotivated in terms of earning lots of money. So I have been the person who brings in the cash in one way or another. This has meant that we have had only one home, no boat, two cars.. a normal life I suppose. Quite different from the life I lived with my adoptive parents who were mega wealthy and my initial relationships. My biological parents were dirt poor. Hubbys parents are relatively poor but I consider them to be rich in other ways; He was raised really really well. However, over time, my 'you might as well go for it' attitude seems to have rubbed off on Hubby and now we stand on the threshold of not having to work ever again shortly due to his own efforts after being made redundant last year. Neither of us expected this to happen! In total, I think my dating wealthy men was more about their ability to 'make things happen' rather than their money. I always intended to earn my own money. My Hubby being a 'hands on' Dad who never did any overtime unless he had to sealed the deal over the wealthy men in the end. I found this quality to be lacking in many wealthy men, who were more concerned about keeping their wealth than even their own health. So yeah, thats my story.. I think it would be a bit sad to just date someone because of their job title but I can understand this pressures if you come from a wealthy background. Take care, Eve xx
Jersey Shortie Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 I've dated alot of different guys with different professions. Some quite well off, some not. My point is that she gave up being a professional to use her real assets. She was no dummy, and was smart enough to realize that no matter how smart she was, her beauty was what men wanted most. You don't have a high opinion women at all so I can understand why someone like you would characterize women on what you deem their "real assets" to be.
shazam Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 speaking as a former paralegal, lawyers are some of the meanest, most disrespectful, selfish men I've ever known. I worked with many and only a very few were nice and respectful to me. If a man I'm interested in says he's a lawyer..I typically lose all interest immediately. Never dated a doctor though. I've had the same experience. Of course, they were all criminal defense lawyers...which maybe says something about their morals.
Skump Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 speaking as a former paralegal, lawyers are some of the meanest, most disrespectful, selfish men I've ever known. I worked with many and only a very few were nice and respectful to me. If a man I'm interested in says he's a lawyer..I typically lose all interest immediately. Never dated a doctor though. Read about elite law schools and you'll understand why. I speak from personal experience when I say they're basically experiments in artificial psychological evolution that reward the smartest, most aggressive and cunning people in the game. That selects for a lot of *******s. With that said, it also selects for some of the most compelling human beings around. The smartest people I've ever met, bar none, I've met in the legal world (although there are plenty of dipsh*t bumpkin attorneys, too).
Els Posted March 23, 2010 Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) No, people (both men and women) don't reach for success just because they think "well, I want a successful guy, so I must be successful myself"! Okay, how about this. What if the woman ditched her high-flying job for a 9-4 typist job, which gives her, omg, 3 extra hours a day to go to the gym, beauty spas, hair salons, you name it. (Although frankly I've no idea how she'll have the money to afford the best stylists and cosmetics - which DO make a difference). But - she can't find a good man. Either guys just want to be FWBs, or they don't want to get serious with her, whatever. But since she'd ditched her high-flying job to be more attractive to the opposite sex, she's screwed, ain't she? And then maybe she meets a potential mate who's successful and rich - but he'll have serious doubts because she has a job that earns less than half what his does, AND she spends most of her money on the gym, sexy clothes, hair salons, cosmetics, etc, to look hot. Would he want to finance her if they marry? Would he want to have to take the greater financial burden for their house, car, etc? Would YOU? Giving up one's successful career just to have more time to look hot has got to be the dumbest advice I've ever seen on these boards. To take care of the kids, maybe. Because she doesn't feel personal satisfaction, maybe. But to look hotter and have a higher chance of attracting a SHALLOW mate?? I sincerely hope no impressionable young women come around here and read your post. Did you read a single word of this, MadDriver? Not all hot women are in good and happy relationships, FYI. Frankly, I can't be bothered with your theory - I haven't had much trouble attracting the types of men that I personally want, in my experience. And they certainly aren't the men who think that women should spend more effort on their looks than their career. News flash for you: Very few intelligent men would think so. And I happen to like intelligent men. Don't really care what your type thinks of me. The only reason I'm bothering to debunk it, is because I can't sit by and let it stand unopposed while young women read it and might actually be deluded by it, thereby leading them to a destructive path of dependence in life. The only reason why one would choose looks (which only benefit one in obtaining a partner - which may not even be a good partner - unless they are one of the very rare few who can make it into a career), over career, is because one needs a partner, just any partner, so much that it's more important to them than their own happiness. Edited March 23, 2010 by Elswyth
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