When is enough enough?

[Lindsey]

It's funny to me how many similarities there are between us and our H's. There are huge differences, of course, but definitely similarities.

 

My H is quite a bit older than I am (14 years) and he was 36 when we married. Never been married before and I thought maybe some of his ways was just from being stuck in his ways since he had been single for so long.

 

He gives me a hard time about the house, even though I think I do an o.k job at keeping it up. It's like I'm the woman so it's my job. I use to think he was old fashioned, now I think he just wants it clean but doesn't want to have to do it himself.

 

I also was involved in a direct sales business (pc) for 8 years when the kids were growing up. He was supportive to a point (me going to conferences, etc) but never really took it as a 'serious job' even though towards the end of my career with them I was earning about $3000 a month.

 

I'm a strong, independent person who has a great sense of humor and lots of friends. I was 20 when we met and I think he was attracted to that side of me, since he's more standoffish.

 

His family has never said I should leave him but even his mother would thank me for staying with him! His BIL even said to me last year 'when your life is over the one thing you'll know for sure is that you made a difference in one lonely man's life'. I couldn't help but think 'what about me?'. Is that my lot in life to rescue him from being a lonely, miserable bachelor??

 

So it's funny to me reading your story how many of the facts are the same.

 

Stay strong. But run fast. Sorry, being punchy today. Hope you're having a great weekend.

Wow, we have a ton of similarities! I sell PC! And would love to make a career out of it, it makes me happy and I love what I do.

 

It was a little funny because last night at his family's for dinner (we go every Sunday) his mom mentioned easter at her family's next weekend. They were asking who all was going and H's brother said something about taking bets if H was going to go or not Then brother's wife piped up and said "let's take bets as to WHY he won't go!". I know this pissed of H but it's the total truth! I went to Thanksgiving and I think Easter at his family's last year without him! I am a big family person even if it isn't my own. So we'll see what happens on Sunday.

 

My weekend... well, I'll start another post about that...

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Hi again

 

Silverfish I'm doing well. Reading up on emotional abuse and angry/controlling men really helped me see things very clearly. I am planning on leaving my H, hopefully in June. It's hard living in the same house while I plan to divorce him, but I have chosen my timetable for the kids. I think it will be easier on them to be out of school for the year.

 

And just like you said to Lyndsey, once you read up on it and really see these guys for who they are, it's funny how similar they are. I found my H littered through the pages of those books.

 

Looking back I never thought I was controlled or abused. I was always a hard worker and he never checked up on me if I was working all day, with clients on a Saturday evening, etc. I handle all of the household money, he is not threatened by my career. So most of the time I didn't feel like he was controlling me. What he was trying to control was himself and how things related to him. If I wanted to have a couple of friends over for dinner he would throw a fit (he would blame it on the money it would cost but really he didn't want to socialize), he didn't want the kids to play organized sports (simply because he didn't want to have to get involved), He didn't like to spend too much time with my family on the holidays (his family lives far away) and he would blame it on the difficult holidays he had as a kid, it brought back too many bad memories. Well BS. He simply didn't want to have to spend a couple of hours at my mom's house on Christmas day. Crap like that. I have learned to recognize it for what it is.

 

Also, Lyndsey, you said something about your H sometimes belittling you in front of co-workers, and maybe family. My H does that too. It has taken me years to try to figure him out and that one I think I have figured out. My friends and family think I'm all that and a bag of chips. (As friends and family usually do) I think he hates that. So he would put me down in front of my family almost like to say 'you think she's so great, but she's not. Look, she bought the wrong kind of steak for the grill so I'm going to make sure everyone knows it, she's not perfect ya know'. Crazy.

 

I always felt like a relationship should lift you up. Should be your soft place to fall. When you go out in the world you can come across lots of people who will try to bring you down. I think the people who love you should lift you up.

 

It's like my H thinks he should be the one to bring me down to earth and show me that I'm not all that great.

 

So anyway. I'm sitting tight. It's hard because I know he's going to be hurt. But enough about him, it's about me now.

 

Lindsey, how was your weekend??

[Lindsey]

Okay so **** hit the fan on Friday night at my house. I was on FB playing games around 10:30 that night. Was thinking about going to bed, knew I'd probably fall asleep on the couch while he watched tv (I hate going to bed without him, it doesn't feel the same so I've got in the bad habit of falling asleep on the couch). Anyway, my niece's xbf popped up on IM and asked how everything was going. I have never talked to him on FB before, haven't seen him since they broke up earlier this year but he was in our family for two years and I thought he would out of country with the military. At the time I mentioned to H that I thought it was funny that he was IM'ing me. I told him I was good and asked how he was. He said not so good, long story short he told me that he was drinking (he's 20) and by himself and that he was worried. He hasn't left yet but gets sent out in April for a year in Kosovo. So I'm feeling for this boy (that's the kind of person I am) and want to give him some kind of advice - why else was he contacting ME? I start to tell him that he needs to find someone he feels close to to talk to before he leaves but at that point H flys off the handle. Yelling at me that I'm disrespecting hi, disrespecting my niece! How dare I talk to him on FB! How often do I talk to him? etc, etc, etc. Then he got up from his chair and flew over to me on the couch, grabbed my free wrist with on hand and my laptop with the other. I looked him straight in the face and told him to let go of me, he was hurting me (I have bad wrists to begin with so any kind of pressure really does hurt bad). I pulled my laptop away from him, I was almost afraid that the pressure he grabbed it with would break it. I told him that he was over reacting that there was nothing going on, that I was just trying to help the poor kid who was apparently reaching out for help! He gets up starts raving and raging about disrespect, etc. Says he's leaving, trying to find the keys (I know where they are at, I was the last one to drive) he grabs my purse and starts to turn it upside down trying to find them the whole yelling and raving at the top of his voice. I told him that if he left I was going to call the cops to which he responded that I cannot call if he's taking his own car. I then said I would call them because I was concerned about his safety because I knew he would be driving recklessly. The whole time I'm holding my composure, watching him ruffle his feathers over NOTHING! Then he starts accusing me of finding someone else on FB and why else would I have wanted to leave him last year, blah, blah, blah. So finally I had my say and told him everything that I've mentioned on here. How unhappy I am, how he didn't do anything he said he would do last night, how I would be much better being single then being with him. It hit him then that I'd been thinking about leaving again. His whole demenor changed from anger into pathetic trying to plead me not to leave again. I still continued to tell him everything I had been feeling and thinking. Told him that we would have to go to counseling if he wanted this to work, that he would have to change, etc.

 

Finally about 2 a.m. we went to bed. I had to be up at 5:30 (yah, no sleep for me). When I got up in the morning I told him that I wanted him to make a list of things he wanted to work on. Not things about me or us but things about him. I was literally gone from 5:30 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. that day so we got very little time to talk. He called me at one point to ask how to run the dishwasher (um we've lived there for 5 years and he's just asking now how to run it!) and that he cleaned up the house, etc. I'm not totally impressed because I know it's still fresh in him. Tomorrow night we will dit down and talk again. He made his list and there are a few more things to put on it. I'm giving him two weeks. He needs to find a counselor, set up an appointment, get his doctor appointments on the calendar and shape up or I'm leaving. He doesn't know this part yet, we will talk about it tomorrow. We'll see what happens, I'm not holding my breath, I'm still watching out for myself. I will NOT go through this again. His anger needs to be under control. There was no reason for him to go off like he did over something like that. Him accusing me of finding someone else on FB, WTF! I do everything for him, if I left him it would be for me not someone else (I told him this).

 

We'll see what happens but I want to thank everyone for their support! I will continue to be on here as this next two weeks progress.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Funny looks like we were both posting at the same time.

 

I am praying my H has to work on Easter so he can't go to my mom's. Since my sister is bringing her boyfriend (who happens to be my x from about 24 years ago), my H will throw a fit.

 

Not sure how much of my story you read, but an ex boyfriend of mine (from when I was about 15 - 17 years old!) resurfaced on FB, then started chatting with my sister (they graduated together) and are now in a full on relationship. When we were getting along last fall, I shared that with my H, about how awkward it will be to have to see him again. But that's it. Well now he's acting like I have been talking to and seeing my ex boyfriend. He's using that against me even though I haven't done anything wrong.

 

He told the therapist 'if she thinks I'm going to sit at a family dinner with him, she's got another thing coming'. Well what are my choices? Not go? My kids would be devistated, we always go to Gramma's on Easter.

 

So I'm hoping he has to work so I don't have to deal with the conflict.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Once again we were posting at the same time. So this is it for me, after this post I'm in the shower!

 

So here is my advice. Make him accountable for everything you need him to do. Have HIM find a therapist (for him, not for you both), have HIM make the appointment, etc., etc.

 

I basically put the ball in my H's court and he dropped it like yesterday's news. He never did anything I told him I needed him to do.

 

So:

 

1. He didn't take me seriously

2. He doesn't think he needs the help

3. All of the above

 

Guys like this have a hard time being accountable for their actions.

 

Out of all of the books I read, seriously you should get the Lundy Bancroft book, 'Why does he do that?'. Maybe while he's promising to get help you should read that book. If this relationship doesn't work it will help you recognize it in future relationships as well so you can run early.

 

Also, 'Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay', is a great book too. It made me realize even w/o my H's verbal attacks and anger management problem, we still don't have a great relationship.

 

Have a great day. Also I have a TPC ring gathering dust if you're interested.

[Lindsey]

Once again we were posting at the same time. So this is it for me, after this post I'm in the shower!

 

So here is my advice. Make him accountable for everything you need him to do. Have HIM find a therapist (for him, not for you both), have HIM make the appointment, etc., etc.

 

I basically put the ball in my H's court and he dropped it like yesterday's news. He never did anything I told him I needed him to do.

 

So:

 

1. He didn't take me seriously

2. He doesn't think he needs the help

3. All of the above

 

Guys like this have a hard time being accountable for their actions.

 

Out of all of the books I read, seriously you should get the Lundy Bancroft book, 'Why does he do that?'. Maybe while he's promising to get help you should read that book. If this relationship doesn't work it will help you recognize it in future relationships as well so you can run early.

 

Also, 'Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay', is a great book too. It made me realize even w/o my H's verbal attacks and anger management problem, we still don't have a great relationship.

 

Have a great day. Also I have a TPC ring gathering dust if you're interested.

Thanks for the suggestions on the books, I like to read so that will be a good thing. I do plan to stick to my guns this time. I feel spineless and weak for not totally sticking up to him by leaving but I know I'm not. When I actually have time to sit down and talk to him tomorrow, we will get everything squared away.

 

Wow, you were doing good if you got a ring! I'm not that good yet but I'm still top sales in my cluster for three years even after I moved up into a different cluster I was still top sales. The one thing that brings me joy in my life is this business! It has brought some of my best friends into my life!

[Lindsey]

So I'm a little extra sad tonight. Not really sure why. I'm at work, don't really want to be here. Would rather be at home in bed sleeping. Not sure if it has to do with H or something else.

 

Last night I had a show for my business. I thought maybe I would spice things up and show him I was wearing some sexy underwear before I left, maybe make him think of me while I was gone and we could have some fun when I got home. His response "Oh, I'm way too tired and sore from work!". Um, he shot me down HOURS before we were actually going to do anything! This made me really upset and I told him so. I changed into normal underwear (wasn't going to wear something a little uncomfortable for nothing) and he noticed. I went to the show, had a great time, talked to one of my best friends on the way home but was instantly sad and tired when I got home. We watched a show he dvr'd while I was gone and I fell asleep on the couch. So much for trying to go to bed earlier and together. I asked and he said no. Not sure if this is why I'm in such a down mood today.

 

Tonight is the first time we'll have a chance to really talk. H isn't much of a communicator. But I'm going to make him talk to me. I have so much to do after work so let's hope that I have the energy when I get home.

[spriggig]

His response "Oh, I'm way too tired and sore from work!". Um, he shot me down HOURS before we were actually going to do anything!

 

If it's of any consolation, I predict he'll deeply regret doing this sort of thing in the future. I did the same thing to my wife and it's been the hardest guilt to get past for me.

[Lindsey]

If it's of any consolation, I predict he'll deeply regret doing this sort of thing in the future. I did the same thing to my wife and it's been the hardest guilt to get past for me.

See that's the biggest thing, he constantly turns me down. We've been together for 7 years and for the first 2-3 things were great in bed. Then he started turning me down. It got to the point he told me to quit "begging" for it! Now we are to the point where we have it maybe 1 time a month or less (I think we've done it twice this year). I got to the point where I was sick of being rejected that I quit asking for it. I thought maybe things would turn around since one thing he wanted to work on was our sex life and showing more affection towards me.

[spriggig]

See that's the biggest thing, he constantly turns me down. We've been together for 7 years and for the first 2-3 things were great in bed. Then he started turning me down. It got to the point he told me to quit "begging" for it! Now we are to the point where we have it maybe 1 time a month or less (I think we've done it twice this year). I got to the point where I was sick of being rejected that I quit asking for it. I thought maybe things would turn around since one thing he wanted to work on was our sex life and showing more affection towards me.

 

Sounds extremely familiar. My wife held out 10 years (it still hurts to admit that). When she first asked me about this about two years ago, I didn't have an answer--I honestly didn't know why I'd done it. After long sleepless nights, alone, thinking about this I decided what had happened. Right after our marriage I felt very secure and that led to complacency. I rejected her only a few times at first but more and more in later years. She became more and more needy and, yes almost begging for it. I don't want to sound like I'm blaming her because I STARTED IT. My only excuse is ignorance, which is of no consolation now believe me. But, I perceived a lack of confidence in herself and that turned me off (without me even realizing it) and the cycle continued back and forth and got worse and worse. In addition her body-image plummeted and she gained weight, which added to her depression and further eroded her confidence.

 

We talked about this again about a month ago and she agrees this is what happened.

[Lindsey]

Sounds extremely familiar. My wife held out 10 years (it still hurts to admit that). When she first asked me about this about two years ago, I didn't have an answer--I honestly didn't know why I'd done it. After long sleepless nights, alone, thinking about this I decided what had happened. Right after our marriage I felt very secure and that led to complacency. I rejected her only a few times at first but more and more in later years. She became more and more needy and, yes almost begging for it. I don't want to sound like I'm blaming her because I STARTED IT. My only excuse is ignorance, which is of no consolation now believe me. But, I perceived a lack of confidence in herself and that turned me off (without me even realizing it) and the cycle continued back and forth and got worse and worse. In addition her body-image plummeted and she gained weight, which added to her depression and further eroded her confidence.

 

We talked about this again about a month ago and she agrees this is what happened.

I told him when we were talking on Saturday that when I initially started working out I was doing it for him. I thought maybe if I lost some weight he would want me more. So here we are 10 months later, I've lost 20 pounds, went from an almost 13 down to a size 7 (just this last week!) and it still doesn't do anything for him! I know a lot of it has to do with his porn addiction, someone just posted what they learned from their counselor exactly what I see in my husband. I'm hoping that we can get a few things squared away tonight because I seriously cannot do this any more. Everything needs to change or I'm gone. I will tell him that. I need to do this for me. I'd rather be alone then continue to have him string me along the rest of my life.

[spriggig]

I told him when we were talking on Saturday that when I initially started working out I was doing it for him. I thought maybe if I lost some weight he would want me more. So here we are 10 months later, I've lost 20 pounds, went from an almost 13 down to a size 7 (just this last week!) and it still doesn't do anything for him! I know a lot of it has to do with his porn addiction, someone just posted what they learned from their counselor exactly what I see in my husband. I'm hoping that we can get a few things squared away tonight because I seriously cannot do this any more. Everything needs to change or I'm gone. I will tell him that. I need to do this for me. I'd rather be alone then continue to have him string me along the rest of my life.

 

I'll just say this from my point of view--I was never put off by my wife's weight gain, I think it was about 50 pounds or so. Physical attraction was there the entire time--I felt it. Believe it or not, I used to fantasize about her during the time that I rejected her. That is why I was confused by my rejection of her at the time and until I figured it out. It's not about weight, it's about confidence. I remember I was turned off when we did have sex, specifically because she would hide from me and refuse to leave the light on.

 

Gotta go now.

[Lindsey]

I'll just say this from my point of view--I was never put off by my wife's weight gain, I think it was about 50 pounds or so. Physical attraction was there the entire time--I felt it. Believe it or not, I used to fantasize about her during the time that I rejected her. That is why I was confused by my rejection of her at the time and until I figured it out. It's not about weight, it's about confidence. I remember I was turned off when we did have sex, specifically because she would hide from me and refuse to leave the light on.

 

Gotta go now.

Thanks for your kind words! I am actually a very free person, I generally walk around the house semi to almost naked - especially on the weekends when I get out of bed in the morning.

 

I do know one thing that has hendered our sex life is his porn addiction (yes, he is addicted it's not just a hobby). I don't mind porn but his level of activity is off the charts. I do believe he has desensatized himself to human contact and would prefer just to take care of matters himself. You would believe that if we hadn't had sex in over a month, he wouldn't have performance problems in bed but it generally happens. I know he doesn't have ed or anything - trust me when I say this. I highly believe it comes from his level of porn watching.

[Lindsey]

By the way it is great to be able to get a guy's prospective on this situation!

[Lindsey]

I did forget one thing that happened on Sunday. We were at his parent's for dinner like we do every Sunday. His mom brought up Easter at her sister's this coming Sunday and wanted to see who all was going. H's brother piped up and said "Should we take bets to see if H is going or not?" Talk about calling his brother out Then brother's wife pipes up and says "Nah, let's take bets as to the reason he won't go" and lists off his usual reasons for not going to certain family things (okay most family things). I know this pissed H off! Truth hurts, doesn't it. I have got to the point that I'm sick of lying to his family. I seriously believe they are on my side with this whole situation. They know how he is. More than likely I will go down to his family's by myself (well with his family) for Easter. Or I might just see what my sister is doing and do something with my family.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Hi Lyndsey

 

Good luck tonight!

 

In my experience when you decide you're really done, you'll be really done. And it's hard to mentally decide that, it's an emotional thing. This time around he may promise many things and tell you everything you need to hear, and it may keep you around for a while.

 

But soon you'll probably throw in the towel. When that happens it's actually almost freeing. For many years (but more particularly during the past year) I was torturing myself wondering what I should do, what is the best thing to do, on and on. Once you really decide it's like a relief. I think in my heart I knew exactly what I should do but it was hard to make that decision.

 

When for 3 years in a row you walk out of the drug store in tears because you couldn't find an anniversary card that really fit (they didn't have one that said 'thanks for stealing my youth'), that's a sign.

 

I am glad that I've had these past 6 months still in the relationship. I think if I had left last fall when I threatened to, I would always wonder if we could have fixed everything and lived happily ever after. Now I know that's not going to happen, which gives me more resolve.

 

I went out to lunch yesterday with a long lost male friend (friend!) and it made me realize there are good guys out there. He was happy, funny, telling me lots of stories about his life and how he's been since high school and the things he's done. I'm not attracted to him but to the idea of him. The fact that there is a life outside of my crappy marriage. When this is all over I'm almost looking forward to dating. Not getting serious but just dating and seeing what I've missed all of these years cooped up in this house because H never wanted to go anywhere.

 

And as far as PC goes I had a great career with them. 8 years, 6 trips, and MANY good friends that I have until this very day. Some of my best friends now are from those days. I stopped when my kids got older and it was harder to be out 3 - 4 nights a week when they needed me home for homework, etc. I had a team of about 30 people and it was really getting to be more full time. Which is great but most of it happened in the evening and I needed to be home.

 

Let us know how it goes tonight!

[Lindsey]

Hi Lyndsey

 

Good luck tonight!

 

In my experience when you decide you're really done, you'll be really done. And it's hard to mentally decide that, it's an emotional thing. This time around he may promise many things and tell you everything you need to hear, and it may keep you around for a while.

 

But soon you'll probably throw in the towel. When that happens it's actually almost freeing. For many years (but more particularly during the past year) I was torturing myself wondering what I should do, what is the best thing to do, on and on. Once you really decide it's like a relief. I think in my heart I knew exactly what I should do but it was hard to make that decision.

 

When for 3 years in a row you walk out of the drug store in tears because you couldn't find an anniversary card that really fit (they didn't have one that said 'thanks for stealing my youth'), that's a sign.

 

I am glad that I've had these past 6 months still in the relationship. I think if I had left last fall when I threatened to, I would always wonder if we could have fixed everything and lived happily ever after. Now I know that's not going to happen, which gives me more resolve.

 

I went out to lunch yesterday with a long lost male friend (friend!) and it made me realize there are good guys out there. He was happy, funny, telling me lots of stories about his life and how he's been since high school and the things he's done. I'm not attracted to him but to the idea of him. The fact that there is a life outside of my crappy marriage. When this is all over I'm almost looking forward to dating. Not getting serious but just dating and seeing what I've missed all of these years cooped up in this house because H never wanted to go anywhere.

 

And as far as PC goes I had a great career with them. 8 years, 6 trips, and MANY good friends that I have until this very day. Some of my best friends now are from those days. I stopped when my kids got older and it was harder to be out 3 - 4 nights a week when they needed me home for homework, etc. I had a team of about 30 people and it was really getting to be more full time. Which is great but most of it happened in the evening and I needed to be home.

 

Let us know how it goes tonight!

So I'm sitting here at work again thinking that I should just leave! I brought up MC last night. He started talking about his doctor's appointments and bills that still have to be paid from all his appointments last year. As if he wanted to put MC off until all that was taken care of! I asked if he wanted to look into the guy that his brother and wife see. He started going off on a tangent about not wanting to go to a town so far away (which wasn't even who I was talking about). He then said that he wasn't going to go see the counselor my sister sees! WFT! That's not even what I said! So I told him that I would find someone and make an appointment. But I feel like I'm doing all the work and he'll just go along! I don't feel like he wants to do this at all!

 

You are supposed to get each other cards for your anniversary? I'm lucky if he even picks out something for my birthday or Christmas or just gives me some money to go buy my own present.

 

I love my business! It keeps me busy and gets me out of the house (honestly if I didn't have it I would be home every night and probably would have left a long time ago). I cannot wait to go on my first trip and started building a team. It's been a long time coming and I think I would be further along if I had more of his support in it.

[Lindsey]

I love sitting here in the solitude of my office with nothing but my own thoughts racing through my head - oh wait, that's not a good thing!

 

I think on the way home from work I'm going to broach the MC talk again. I just don't feel like he wants to do it and to me it's the only way to get our marriage working. I'm sick of feeling like a roommate! To me, I just feel like I should move on with my life!

 

I am excited for this weekend though. My sister invited me to an event for scholarships for the school we both went to and that her kids go to now. It's a formal casino night. So I get to get all dressed up and dolled up. I don't do that often if at all (maybe the last time was my wedding?). I'm actually looking forward to it. H knows I'm going, not sure how excited he is about me going. After tonight I'll be home every night except Saturday until next Thursday. It's been a long time since I've been home that much in the evening.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Hi again Lyndsey

 

IMO his stalling and leaving you to make the appointments and practically beg him to go to MC is him saying to you 'there's no problem here'. If he believed there was a problem and you were out the door he would be more invested in the solution. If he wanted to save the marriage.

 

That's why I said in one of my earlier posts that when you lay it all on the line you need to make him do the heavy lifting. That's the only way you'll know if he is taking any ownership in the problem.

 

6 months ago my H said he would do whatever it takes. I told him he needed to read those anger books, make an appointment for individual counseling, and I wanted to do some things around the house. We have completely let this house go (cosmetically) because he can't bear to spend the money. He agreed to all of that. I felt great.

 

Well now those books have not moved, he did go to MC when I made the appointments for us (and then he complained about me the whole time) and when his bonus came and I asked if we could do the work to the house that we talked about in the fall (wood floors to replace this 20 year old carpet) he acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. So I reminded him and he said 'oh, I just said that to keep you from kicking me out of the house'. Nice

 

I tell these stories so you can see a little bit of what silverfish was saying. They are not all that unique. These angry/controlling men.

 

One of the new books I have been reading mentioned a few times in the beginning about these men driving fast and recklessly and being delighted about their partner's fear. Reminded me of one of your stories.

 

Have fun at your event! Sounds like a good time.

[Lindsey]

Hi again Lyndsey

 

IMO his stalling and leaving you to make the appointments and practically beg him to go to MC is him saying to you 'there's no problem here'. If he believed there was a problem and you were out the door he would be more invested in the solution. If he wanted to save the marriage.

 

That's why I said in one of my earlier posts that when you lay it all on the line you need to make him do the heavy lifting. That's the only way you'll know if he is taking any ownership in the problem.

 

6 months ago my H said he would do whatever it takes. I told him he needed to read those anger books, make an appointment for individual counseling, and I wanted to do some things around the house. We have completely let this house go (cosmetically) because he can't bear to spend the money. He agreed to all of that. I felt great.

 

Well now those books have not moved, he did go to MC when I made the appointments for us (and then he complained about me the whole time) and when his bonus came and I asked if we could do the work to the house that we talked about in the fall (wood floors to replace this 20 year old carpet) he acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. So I reminded him and he said 'oh, I just said that to keep you from kicking me out of the house'. Nice

 

I tell these stories so you can see a little bit of what silverfish was saying. They are not all that unique. These angry/controlling men.

 

One of the new books I have been reading mentioned a few times in the beginning about these men driving fast and recklessly and being delighted about their partner's fear. Reminded me of one of your stories.

 

Have fun at your event! Sounds like a good time.

Thanks again! The sad part is I see it all! I know he's not going to change and I know he doesn't want to go to MC. I wanted to talk to him about it again today because it's been bothering me. I'm to young for this, I have the rest of my life ahead of me. I want a family! I don't see him giving me any of this. Maybe tomorrow after my workout I'll run to the book store and grab those other books you recommended. What is the one you are currently reading?

 

I just feel like I'm spineless and cannot stick up for myself even though I know I have always felt like I'm a very independent level headed person.

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Ug!

 

So I went to Amazon to find out the exact name of the book for you, and I purchased 4 more books while I was there! There must be a support group for me. If so, I bet Gunny would be there, he seems to suffer from the same afliction.

 

So here ya go:

 

The verbally Abusive Man, can he change?: A woman's guide to deciding whether to stay or go by Patricia Evans

 

I'm only on page 40 or so of that book but I LOVED the beginning. She talked a ton about what makes them that way and I found it extremely enlightening. In that book she also talks about writing an agreement so your H can sign it if he agrees to change. I think later in the book she walks you through how to write the agreement. If you want to save your marriage he will have to change, and that book talks about if he can change or not.

 

If you can only purchase a few I would start with Too Good to Leave, Too bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum, Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft and the one I mentioned above. I always order from Amazon, they seem to have a great selection, never out of stock and you can read the reviews. I have the books shipped to my office so he doesn't open the box.

 

Headed away for the weekend to see family, my gram is not doing well. Going by myself so I'm carting all of my books with me to read at night. Can't wait.

 

Talk to you soon

[silverfish]

Thanks again! The sad part is I see it all! I know he's not going to change and I know he doesn't want to go to MC. I wanted to talk to him about it again today because it's been bothering me. I'm to young for this, I have the rest of my life ahead of me. I want a family! I don't see him giving me any of this. Maybe tomorrow after my workout I'll run to the book store and grab those other books you recommended. What is the one you are currently reading?

 

I just feel like I'm spineless and cannot stick up for myself even though I know I have always felt like I'm a very independent level headed person.

 

That's how I felt as well, and still do sometimes. When I did / do stick up for myself my ex acts like I'm some sort of hysterical mental and has accused he of 'abusing' him in the past (that's common as well you'll find when you read some of the books Mrs A recommended).

 

Here's what happened today to me....

 

The back story is, my ex & me had a verbal arrangement for child support when we split 2 years ago. Its about 30% less than the government recommended but TBH I prefer to do it amicably, so I settled for what we agreed.

 

My ex's mother died last September (I was very close to her), and he lost his job, and had to move 300 miles away. Since that happened he hasn't paid any child support.

 

He got a fairly well paid job recently (he started 2 months ago), and a place very near here so he can see the kids. I've broached the subject of him giving us child support again since he got settled, each time I mention it he gets more angry.

 

He told me today that if I go to court to get it sorted - my only choice now - he will move 300 miles away because he will be 'too angry with me to live so close by'....

 

So, he is prepared to lose seeing his kids, go through a court case, and end up paying out more than I would agree to, just to keep me under his control ie stressed, angry, emotional, worried....a bit scared too if I'm honest. He's also prepared to put our kids through that too.

 

That's what I get when I stick up for myself.....if we didn't have children together, he'd never see or hear from me ever again....I don't mean to freak you out, but hopefully hearing this stuff helps you to understand why you feel like you do

[Mrs. Ambivalent]

Kind of horrible how their minds work.

 

When I said I wanted to separate my H said he would quit his job and move 1000 miles away. And he also said that he 'would have his time with our boys and he'll spend that time making sure they hate me for what I've done'.

 

Ya. He's the yeller, angry person, name caller, grump. But I am the one who did this to our family. Puhleeze

 

How is it on the one hand they'll say they love their kids, then on the other they threaten horrible things that will affect the kids forever.

 

Silverfish you owe it to your kids to get that child support. You're not doing it for you, you're doing it for them. He's using the only tool he has in his tool box that will still work on you. Threats of whatever it will take to get you to do what he wants you to do. It is scary. But that's his plan.

 

Makes my blood boil.

[Lindsey]

On the way home last night from work I brought up the subject of MC again. I asked him if he would go if I made the appt. He just said "I suppose". It was more the way he said it than anything.

 

I had an hour ride to a show I was doing that night. About half way up there I realized that I wasn't even paying attention to driving. My mind was on our situation the whole time. I finally came to the realization that maybe I don't want to go to marriage counseling. I feel like I'm done fighting for this marriage with someone who doesn't even show me the respect I deserve. I feel like MC would be more of a burden, me having to drag him there, him getting mad, us arguing afterwards about everything. I think I'm done. I just want to be by myself. Now I just have to tell him.

[silverfish]

Kind of horrible how their minds work.

 

When I said I wanted to separate my H said he would quit his job and move 1000 miles away. And he also said that he 'would have his time with our boys and he'll spend that time making sure they hate me for what I've done'.

 

Ya. He's the yeller, angry person, name caller, grump. But I am the one who did this to our family. Puhleeze

 

How is it on the one hand they'll say they love their kids, then on the other they threaten horrible things that will affect the kids forever.

 

Silverfish you owe it to your kids to get that child support. You're not doing it for you, you're doing it for them. He's using the only tool he has in his tool box that will still work on you. Threats of whatever it will take to get you to do what he wants you to do. It is scary. But that's his plan.

 

Makes my blood boil.

 

Yep, it's pretty childish isn't it? If it's any consolation, I doubt your H would do that...he'll be far more concerned with sticking a lot closer in order to try and keep you under the thumb. As for the kids..they'll make up their own minds hopefully.

 

One thing I'd like to add to that list I wrote on your thread a while back is be prepared for a lot of guilt and also game playing by your ex. He'll do anything to make himself 'look good' or paint himself as the wronged party so you have to have nerves of steel.