Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Background: 23 year old male living in NYC A friend gets in contact with me (24 year old female) and asks what I am doing for St. Patrick's day (I have a slight crush on this girl, but right now we are just friends). I tell her "probably going out to get a drink, you?" She asks if she can tag along after work. I agree. When we meet, she reaches up and puts her hands on my arm/shoulder as she's greeting me. We decide to walk/talk to a nearby part of the city about 10-15 blocks away to get dinner (we wind up not getting drinks). We eventually settle on a place and have good conversation. She asks if I can come with her to a nearby supermarket so she could get some stuff to make sushi after we finish dinner (I paid about 5 bucks over what I owed, and she under -- I basically tossed out a 20 and said 15 would be fine from her). I agree to the supermarket, but we find that the stores are closed. She immediately suggests that we get ice cream, and we do. She treats me -- as we're walking back, she tells me to slow down my walking speed (saying that she's too full to walk that fast) -- I'm a tall guy so it's easy for me to have long strides or whatever. We decide to walk back to our apartments -- on the way back I show her a phone app I recently acquired that shows the sky constellations depending on where you hold your phone. This was applicable because in a prior meetup, we had gone walking with other friends while trying to identify constellations at one point. She really likes it and actually reaches up/grabs my wrist to turn the phone the direction she wants it so she can look around (holds on for maybe 10 seconds as she's turning it). We wind up going back/parting ways/saying goodbye as we returned home. Now, I just can't tell at all. Are these things indicators of interest at all, or purely friendly? I have a really hard time telling things apart, especially if such things are subtle. Am I overthinking/overweighting things? Looking for interest where it may not exist?
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 I kinda want to ask her to do something later on this week... but, gah. I just can't tell.
mrt336 Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 How long have you been her "friend?" If it's been a while, like months, then you're friends. If you recently met her, ask her out later in the week. Say the word date and see how she responds. If she goes, kiss her at the end.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 I've known her for a little under a month. We've hung out before in a group setting with friends on multiple occasions, but tonight was the first time we had a one-on-one type of thing. I feel like asking for a "date" would put a lot of pressure on things, though.
threebyfate Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 If I recall correctly, Vertex, you want to ensure that you don't to risk losing a potential friend by taking a chance. With this in mind, ask her to do something later this week and keep it ambiguous. When you see her, throw an arm around her shoulders and give her a hug, to see if she shrugs you off. If she does shrug you off, consider it between friends and don't make any more moves. If she accepts your arm, then it's a date, so leave it there, around her shoulders.
mrt336 Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Eehhhh... In general, women like confidence. Asking her on a date is confident, it shows her that you know you're enough of a catch that she'd be interested in you, even if you aren't that sure and even if she isn't interested in dating. It also puts her cards on the table so you know where you stand and so after 3 months of hanging out with her you aren't still clueless. If the girl wants to date you, if she's interested, she is going to say yes. She won't think it's too soon, she won't feel caught off guard, she'll be ecstatic (and probably hiding it) If she doesn't want to date you, she already knows. Asking her on a date isn't going to jeopardize your monthlong friendship. You can still be friends, ya'll can still hang out. She may say it's because she doesn't want to ruin the friendship, but that just means she doesn't want to date you and it's a good way to not hurt your feelings. I've done what you're doing before and it was because I was scared to find out where I really stand, I wanted to continue hanging out with the girl thinking that maybe in the future we could be more. Just ask her out on a date, it's like ripping a bandaid off. Sure it's gonna suck if she turns you down, but you'll save yourself a lot of wasted time.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 If I recall correctly, Vertex, you want to ensure that you don't to risk losing a potential friend by taking a chance. With this in mind, ask her to do something later this week and keep it ambiguous. When you see her, throw an arm around her shoulders and give her a hug, to see if she shrugs you off. If she does shrug you off, consider it between friends and don't make any more moves. If she accepts your arm, then it's a date, so leave it there, around her shoulders. I feel like it'd be awkward for me to go in for a hug. I'm a pretty tall guy, and so whenever I move in to hug anyone, I have to bend over usually and it's just a bit overt. Usually when girls hug me, it's better because they have to get up close/reach up a bit/etc. Is there any other recommended way to be ambiguous yet "testing"?
threebyfate Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 I feel like it'd be awkward for me to go in for a hug. I'm a pretty tall guy, and so whenever I move in to hug anyone, I have to bend over usually and it's just a bit overt. Usually when girls hug me, it's better because they have to get up close/reach up a bit/etc. Is there any other recommended way to be ambiguous yet "testing"?When I say hug, imagine yourself walking beside her and you, throwing a friendly arm around her shoulders, pulling her closer to you in a hug but not all the way, just a sideways one. This isn't reliant on height. Trust me on this one, I'm a shortie and my H., plus many of the guys I've dated in the past, were 6' and taller. This can be construed as both friendly and also, as more. It depends on how long you leave your arm on her shoulders. If she immediately pulls back, take your arm away. If she doesn't, leave it there. If you want something even more ambiguous, when you enter the restaurant, put your hand at her waist-level on her back and gently steer her towards the table, using your hand to guide her. This is considered a courteous, gentlemanly gesture. This can be a testing touch. If she flinches away, then drop your hand immediately. If she accepts your touch, she might be ready for more forms of touching, like putting your hand around her waist.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 When I say hug, imagine yourself walking beside her and you, throwing a friendly arm around her shoulders, pulling her closer to you in a hug but not all the way, just a sideways one. This isn't reliant on height. Trust me on this one, I'm a shortie and my H., plus many of the guys I've dated in the past, were 6' and taller. This can be construed as both friendly and also, as more. It depends on how long you leave your arm on her shoulders. If she immediately pulls back, take your arm away. If she doesn't, leave it there. If you want something even more ambiguous, when you enter the restaurant, put your hand at her waist-level on her back and gently steer her towards the table, using your hand to guide her. This is considered a courteous, gentlemanly gesture. This can be a testing touch. If she flinches away, then drop your hand immediately. If she accepts your touch, she might be ready for more forms of touching, like putting your hand around her waist. I've always been a huge fan of the "hand on the back/guiding" thing... it's something even I can do. :X I kinda wish I had done it earlier. But for me, progressing from that to an arm around the waist or shoulder just seems like it could be perceived as too large a jump. I feel like I need to take "babier" steps in this regard. As you can likely tell, I am extraordinarily risk-averse when it comes to this stuff. The only time I've ever been able to pull this sort of thing off successfully is back in college when the girl basically made really obvious moves to hang out with me (so I could tell she was interested). Here, I can't tell if she's just being friendly. I feel like even taking touching too far would potentially make the friendship awkward if she gets the idea that I am trying to hit on her (if she isn't interested).
threebyfate Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Grrr...Vertex! This girl has already been touching you! Okay, let's get even more subtle. Insist on paying for her meal and see how she reacts.
boogieboy Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Ugh, youre such a pain in the ass. Look, if she doesnt like you, youre not going to be friends with her afterwards anyway, so you can take the risk. So put your arm around her, do some light touching to flirt, and stop worrying about what the risk is. if she likes you, she likes you, you cant make her like you by walking on eggshells. You have to make a move.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 I am going to go nerdstyle and actually make this nerdy as **** graph because I am bored and feel like it: http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5159/somethingiswrongwithmef.png Basically, I need to be on that black line. The green lines represent uncertainty (black dot could be anywhere along those lines, upward bound representing potential error in favor of the downside, and vice-versa), and the midway point along the y axis is ambiguity with respect to obviousness of intent. I need to be able to do something that could potentially be seen as friendly but could also be seen as romantic. If she assumes romantic, I can see if she reacts with something "obviously romantic," and if she assumes friendly, I can expect no escalation from her end. I... am crazy lmfao.
2sunny Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 i agree with making the move now - ask her out. if she says no - you'll know. i think she'll say yes. then flirt with her. be confident - be nice, and kiss her at the end of the date if all is going well.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 Ugh, youre such a pain in the ass. Look, if she doesnt like you, youre not going to be friends with her afterwards anyway, so you can take the risk. So put your arm around her, do some light touching to flirt, and stop worrying about what the risk is. if she likes you, she likes you, you cant make her like you by walking on eggshells. You have to make a move. That's the thing though -- if she weren't interested (and I never made a move, let's say), we'd still be friends afterward. The problem is that I don't want to turn things down an awkward road because "I'm that friend that at one point hit on her" or something.
2sunny Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 if a man is ambiguous - i friend zone him - ask her out - do not leave her wondering if you want to date... to know is better than wondering.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 if a man is ambiguous - i friend zone him - ask her out - do not leave her wondering if you want to date... to know is better than wondering. So what do you do when a friend hits on you and you don't see him as a romantic interest? How do things play out into the future?
sweetjasmine Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Touching her back lightly or hugging her isn't going to ruin your friendship or make things awkward. Most of us are used to new guy friends/potential dates trying to gauge how we feel about them. I've had male friends touch my back lightly or hug me, and it didn't make things awkward. When I didn't seem to be too into it or interested, they backed off, and we were just friends. No hurt feelings or awkwardness or anything like that. And for the other way around, my SO did the sort-of-side-hug thing, and it worked. You're talking yourself out of it all. Just try to relax and take a chance.
Cinderella7 Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 I agree that you should just officially ask her out. It shows confidence, which is extremely attractive, and even if she says so, I guarantee that at the very least she will be flattered, and at least you know where you stand now. The first time I hung out with the guy I'm seeing now was in a "friendly" group setting, and he asked me out two days later on an official date. He later admitted that he was afraid it was a little forward, but he went with it anyway. I'm glad he did because I found his confidence and willingness to pursue a relationship very attractive, and it kept him clearly out of the dreaded friend zone.
2sunny Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 So what do you do when a friend hits on you and you don't see him as a romantic interest? How do things play out into the future? i have many male friends like that. i'm good at saying no without hurting their feelings. i would never hurt my friend's feelings. sometimes i need them as a friend more than a boyfriend. if that is the case - i make sure that i am a dependable, true and reliable friend. men don't find that very often.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 Touching her back lightly or hugging her isn't going to ruin your friendship or make things awkward. Most of us are used to new guy friends/potential dates trying to gauge how we feel about them. I've had male friends touch my back lightly or hug me, and it didn't make things awkward. When I didn't seem to be too into it or interested, they backed off, and we were just friends. No hurt feelings or awkwardness or anything like that. And for the other way around, my SO did the sort-of-side-hug thing, and it worked. You're talking yourself out of it all. Just try to relax and take a chance. It's just tough for me because there are some signs that may point to "friend" and others that may point to "interest." She's asked me for advice on relationships/men in general (to me, this is a friendzone action). But certain things today seemed like she was maybe interested (but then again, they could be friendly). She also wants me to help teach her some things later on in the week (the subject matter is a bit nerdy but common to both of our lifestyles -- I can't tell if THIS is friendly or if she's looking for an excuse to hang out). At one point she also said she wanted to watch certain movies in passing (but we never set a time/place/date for it). I feel like there are so many ambiguous signals from this chick. :/ I want something concrete -- even if it's something "ambiguously concrete." I don't want to make a boneheaded move just because I can't piece the evidence together properly.
SadandConfusedWA Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 This girl would find you WAY sexier if you were to make a solid move. It is a big turn off when a guy is so terrified or rejection that he is afraid to so much as touch the girl.
marsle85 Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Ask her out! I think she's interested. And jeesh, take her on a few dates, will you? Don't go dutch, don't accept her "treat"-- if you like the girl, show her. And that doesn't involve "you pay 15, i'll pay 20". Not romantic.
DustySaltus Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Vertex, Stop looking at dating graphs Pick up the check next time you go out. Definetly "guide" her to the table next time like TBF said. Be a little more flirty before she friend-zones you. Kiss her at the end of the date. That's it.
Author Vertex Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 Do you think that the fact she offered to pay for ice cream means she was trying to be "datey" or do you think she was trying to make up for the dollar differential from dinner to be friendly/"even things out"? I am kicking myself hardcore. I feel like I missed out on a few prime opportunities last night. Next time I'm definitely going to try to touch a bit/pick up the entire tab. Do you think inviting her out tonight would be seen as too much/too soon (tomorrow she wants to get together so I can teach her some things).
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