Meadow Blue Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 What does this mean to you? To me, true love is a great fantasy, but that's all it is. Unfortunately, I've been brainwashed with that Disney princess **** my entire life, and as much as I think I'm fairly realistic, I can't help but feel disappointed that the fantasy will never be reality. For me, I would like to get married, for social approval, for financial reasons, possibly to have children. Mostly for financial reasons (yes, I have a full time job). My fiance wants to get married. He wants to have children, and the approval of his friends (who are almost all married, and many are starting to have children) and family. For financial reasons. What he requires in a partner is the ability to earn money, bear children, and not argue with him or give him problems about whatever decisions he makes socially (flirting with other women and so on). He wants his wife to stay home with the kids, at least until they are of school age. On the one hand, I feel like this is a shoddy deal for me. On the other, I feel trapped, and as though I have no other choice. In our current society (I'm from the US) and with student loans, I will be destitute for life, unless I win the lottery, or marry someone to help split the cost of living. A lot of things bother me about my relationship with my fiance, such as never having had the feeling that he's in love with me (at one point I was very much in love with him). I was reading another thread on this board earlier today (skimmed a lot before deciding to join) about cuddling and hard-ons and almost started crying, because my fiance has never gotten hard from cuddling with me, or from kissing me (and he almost never kisses me, and never goes down on me)...I always tried to tell myself that this guy was 'normal', even though every other bf I've ever had has been the opposite. But after reading that thread, it seems that the concensus is that it's abnormal to not get hard from making out or cuddling. And so on.... Sorry for my rambling, I guess my point is that I'm torn between seeing marriage (and dating) as a financial transaction, and the bullcrap about true love and romance I've been innundated with since birth.
marsle85 Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Blue, Your post has made me so sad, I'm -very- sorry that you're in this position. The truth is, all specifics aside: if it doesn't feel right, it's not. You deserve to be excited for marriage, children and sharing your life together. Finances are a bonus. You deserve for him to be excited to cuddle with you, go down on you, etc. This isn't the end for you, possibly just your relationship. Because all of that Disney-princess crap relationships stuff? Not totally crap. Because none of those women doubted their prince was in love with them.
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 We've been dating for years, and he doesn't know me at all. If the only two things on the entire planet that I won't eat are hamburger and spicy food, why on earth would you think I would ever want to eat chili? His dinner suggestion for tonight was to go to a place that only serves chili. After my initial flash of anger I almost cried, and now I'm just annoyed.
marsle85 Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Blue, sometimes the best thing you can do when looking at your own relationshp is to imagine your best friend being in this situation. Reread both of your posts and forget that it's you. What would you tell your friend? He sounds "fine"...is "fine" enough?
Mr White Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 The Disney romance crap is crap, but it looks like so is your current relationship. It seem like you should go...
Ruby Slippers Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 No relationship is perfect, but I can't imagine resigning myself to a blah relationship just so I wouldn't be alone. I'd rather be alone than feel lonely and unfulfilled with a bad match. How old are you?
mrkleen Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Meadow As you probably already know – life is not all sunny days and euphoria. The high you get at the beginning of a new relationship, that first night you make love etc – is not something that is sustainable over the long haul. BUT – if you are 29 and in a relationship that is just going through the motions, you need to either address it and see if you can get to some place where you both work on it – or you need to move on. Maybe your BF is feeling exactly the same way – and he will be relieved to hear that you are also worried about the direction you two are going in. You cant know without talking to him about it. If it turns out that he sees no problem with it all…then you have a big decision to make. I really respect you for not running away at the first sign of issues. So many people view relationships as disposable commodities these days – it is refreshing to find a person that cares enough to at least give things a fair chance to work out. If it doesn’t, you can sleep easy knowing you gave it your honest, best effort.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Well, it depended on the time in my life when I was dating. Early on, dating to me was an adventure to have fun, not at the expense of others, and learn about myself and men. Other times dating was a means to look for a man worth keeping around. True love is not a great fantasy. Bells, trains, planes and automobles are. Love is not sustained on a consistant feed of euphoric emotion. It's both a feelings and a choice. I wouldn't want to be a Disney Princess, they clearly have no skeletal system! Maybe you aren't looking for the fantasy so much as a strong emotion towards your partner? Its hard balancing between the two. I've dated men that I could have settled down with, where life would have sailed along, but I knew in my heart that they were not going to inspire me, or teach me, the things I know deep down I need to learn. I think they were content with the status que. I was not. Does that mean I am looking to be taking on a magic carpet ride? Not at all. Not everyone finds love at 18. It sounds like you and your partner disagree on some big life issues. Add in the fact that you don't even feel loved and say at *one point* you loved him very much and you got some big issues. I would not be as worried about him not getting hard form the cuddling. At least, not yet. Not all men are horny 24/7. Some men have a lower sex drive. Is your man like that? All in all, things are only going to get worse and those things that annoy you about him will only esculate. Talk to him about your feelings. If you can't, then you do have issues. Talk to HIM about your feelings.
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 I've been contemplating all your thoughtful responses. I don't exactly feel unloved. It's just more like he's my friend who loves me. But one of those friends who is a friend just as long as everything is fine and there are no waves.
sweetjasmine Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 Sorry for my rambling, I guess my point is that I'm torn between seeing marriage (and dating) as a financial transaction, and the bullcrap about true love and romance I've been innundated with since birth. The Disney princess stuff definitely is BS, but go back and re-read your post. He's not fulfilling your needs and he's placing his needs and desires above yours, and it's not going to get any better over time. It's not unrealistic or silly of you to want better, and there are men out there who can do all those things he's not doing for you. Nothing's ever going to be a Disney princess fairytale, but that doesn't mean you should settle for someone who doesn't even make you happy.
start-fresh Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 It looks like you do not love the man. I agree. OP, if you are looking for someone to say it, here it is... It's over for you guys. Marriage won't solve any of your problems, only magnify them. You can't view it as a financial transaction as you have no way to know what either of your financial futures hold.
ADF Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 There is a middle ground between marriage as a pragmatic, financial/child- rearing arrangement and the fairy tale. You have solid reasons for wanting to get married. However, it is clear that this man is not the one you should marry. Don't make yourself a prisoner in a marriage just to pay off your debts.
stillafool Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) For me, I would like to get married, for social approval, for financial reasons, possibly to have children. Mostly for financial reasons (yes, I have a full time job). My fiance wants to get married. He wants to have children, and the approval of his friends (who are almost all married, and many are starting to have children) and family. For financial reasons. What he requires in a partner is the ability to earn money, bear children, and not argue with him or give him problems about whatever decisions he makes socially (flirting with other women and so on). He wants his wife to stay home with the kids, at least until they are of school age. Never once do you mention the two of you want to marry because you love each other and want to spend the rest of your lives together. That says everything you need to know about marrying this person. You also need to examine your own reasons for wanting to marry as they seem as shallow as his. I think you should stay on your own, get a second job to pay off your bills, and wait until you find a man you just cannot live without before you even consider marriage. You two sound as if you are approaching this marriage more for what society thinks and to fit into some type of "social class" rather than anything having to do with love. On the other, I feel trapped, and as though I have no other choice. In our current society (I'm from the US) and with student loans, I will be destitute for life, unless I win the lottery, or marry someone to help split the cost of living. Get a second job, sacrifice and pay off your bills. A lot of things bother me about my relationship with my fiance, such as never having had the feeling that he's in love with me (at one point I was very much in love with him). If you think he isn't in love with you now just wait until you marry. He is sure to have affairs and expect you to accept it. You can and will do better. I was reading another thread on this board earlier today (skimmed a lot before deciding to join) about cuddling and hard-ons and almost started crying, because my fiance has never gotten hard from cuddling with me, or from kissing me (and he almost never kisses me, and never goes down on me)...I always tried to tell myself that this guy was 'normal', even though every other bf I've ever had has been the opposite. But after reading that thread, it seems that the concensus is that it's abnormal to not get hard from making out or cuddling. This is very normal for a guy to get a hard on when cuddling. I have been married 13 years and my husband still gets a hard on everytime we cuddle or even hug too long. I would feel hurt if this never happened from my man. I can understand sometimes and a low sex drive. How is he during sex? Edited March 21, 2010 by stillafool
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 Some of you seem personally offended by my choices and questions. Please keep in mind that I am a person seeking advice, multiple viewpoints, and guidance. I am in personal crisis and trying to come to terms with some things. I did not set out to be judged, nor to offend people on the internet. Stillafool, to answer your question regarding sex, there are no problems there, as far as I can tell. We have sex several times a week...he takes Propecia also...though not every day like he's supposed to.
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 I would like to add to my previous post, to acknowledge someone's statement that I never stated that I want to spend the rest of my life with my fiance, and vice versa. In my mind, and in my fiance's mind actually, this is the Disney princess bull**** mentioned in my OP, and in several of the responses. Wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone is either a romantic notion, or a logical decision. For both my fiance and myself, it is not a romantic notion; it is a decision, a commitment based on something more than lust or romance - it is based on shared values (a stable home for a family).
carhill Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 What does this mean to you? Getting to know someone under the precepts of romance.
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 I would like to add to my previous post, to acknowledge someone's statement that I never stated that I want to spend the rest of my life with my fiance, and vice versa. In my mind, and in my fiance's mind actually, this is the Disney princess bull**** mentioned in my OP, and in several of the responses. Wanting to spend the rest of your life with someone is either a romantic notion, or a logical decision. For both my fiance and myself, it is not a romantic notion; it is a decision, a commitment based on something more than lust or romance - it is based on shared values (a stable home for a family). My fiance has "sown his wild oats", and (while I actually take offense at this statement), he has said that I am "more important than sex". I am confident that cheating is not, and will not, be an issue, because of our shared values.
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 Getting to know someone under the precepts of romance. Thank you, I'm so glad someone else zeroed in on this question. Do you mind expanding your answer and sharing some of the things you look for when you're getting to know someone, and how easy it is for you to say "no thanks" when what you see doesn't align with what you're looking for?
carhill Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 I read the rest of the thread. IMO, give him the ring back. Trust me.... I wish I had never played Santa one particular Christmas....the 'rest' was one expensive and painful learning experience. If breaking the engagement sounds extreme, OK, don't, but get some PMC, please....
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 I read the rest of the thread. IMO, give him the ring back. Trust me.... I wish I had never played Santa one particular Christmas....the 'rest' was one expensive and painful learning experience. If breaking the engagement sounds extreme, OK, don't, but get some PMC, please.... Could you please be more specific why you say this??? You're echoing what others have said, but please explain why??? I need more information to make a decision
carhill Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 Here ya go, in your own words: I was reading another thread on this board earlier today (skimmed a lot before deciding to join) about cuddling and hard-ons and almost started crying, because my fiance has never gotten hard from cuddling with me, or from kissing me (and he almost never kisses me, and never goes down on me)...I always tried to tell myself that this guy was 'normal', even though every other bf I've ever had has been the opposite. But after reading that thread, it seems that the concensus is that it's abnormal to not get hard from making out or cuddling. Given the rest of the OP, the cold hard business-like reality of it, this stood out. You can have a great career, pay off those debts, enjoy many business partnerships which are profitable and perhaps even have a child (or adopt one) someday. Dating, romance and marriage can be about thinking and business. If I hadn't read the above quote, I might had said that perspective could apply here. Clearly it doesn't, or you wouldn't care about cuddling or erections. You would care about loan balances, bank accounts and social approval levels and things like that, and only that. Tomorrow's Monday. Call a PMC and get an appointment. When's the wedding?
Author Meadow Blue Posted March 21, 2010 Author Posted March 21, 2010 Here ya go, in your own words: Given the rest of the OP, the cold hard business-like reality of it, this stood out. You can have a great career, pay off those debts, enjoy many business partnerships which are profitable and perhaps even have a child (or adopt one) someday. Dating, romance and marriage can be about thinking and business. If I hadn't read the above quote, I might had said that perspective could apply here. Clearly it doesn't, or you wouldn't care about cuddling or erections. You would care about loan balances, bank accounts and social approval levels and things like that, and only that. Tomorrow's Monday. Call a PMC and get an appointment. When's the wedding? You caught me out... ...And now I'm almost crying again...I feel like maybe you kind of get what I'm saying The wedding isn't until next spring...my bf likes to fake at being romantic - he makes a huge deal out of pointing out that it's our 'anniversary', but won't actually treat it as an anniversary (get a card, go out to dinner, share a bottle of wine over dinner at home...)....so I chose our anniversary as our wedding date At one point I was very much in love with my fiance, and of course I still love him. I've never felt that he was in love with me, and I guess I feel very much like I am merely a logical decision for him, since he's already 'been there done that' and is ready for the next step (marriage and children)....not so much that he can't live without me, as "she'll do", because I fit his criteria. Of course, I am very much at fault also.
start-fresh Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 You said you're not worried about him cheating but what about you? This is the rest of your life. Do you not think you'll ever run into a man that can really push your buttons? One that can provide all of these material things you seek out of marriage and make you want to jump him any time, any place? This is why marriages fail so often these days. People feel trapped by society and think that looking 'normal' will make the rest of their life fall into place. If you're not excited about this now, what makes you think it will change in the next 40+ years you two will be committed to each other?
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