Distrust after 5 years, no hope in sight

[Rock1972]

First, I must apologize, this is a cross-post but I think I originally posted in the wrong forum and didn't see a way to move it.

I haven't seen a story similar to mine so I'm forced to post in hopes of getting some advice.

 

Marriage 1, the short version: Married after 2 year engagement right out of HS, we were the only people we had ever had a serious relationship with. 3 years after marriage I found her with my best friend on xmas eve. Papers served. No kids.

 

4 months later, after the papers were served I met, and got engaged to my current wife. Fast, yes, but we're still together after 12 years and have a 7 year old little girl.

 

5 years ago my wife and I were into an online game. I played the game and she 'met' someone on the same game. I started getting the same feelings I had when I 'just knew' my first wife had fallen for someone else. I kept asking questions and she angrily accused me of being an untrusting *******, that I need to get help (which I did), and that nothing inappropriate was going on. This happened several times. I even noticed that when we had sex after playing the game that she was already pretty well worked up. One night I decided to tell her that I was just going to trust her and love her. The next day I even bought her a card and flowers saying this. The day after that, I logged into her account on the game to fix a problem and this guy says "hey hun". I logged off, went back and looked at her chat logs and saw things like "are you alone?", "ooh the danger!", "I love you", "I'll email you tomorrow from work" between her and this guy. In her email account were pictures of my daughter going to him along with love letters. There was no chance of a physical affair as he lived 1500 miles away and had his own family, wife and 8 kids (I investigated). When I confronted her, she denied it angrily at first, even when I told her that I had logs. I had to show her the logs before she would come clean and then threaten to look at past logs before she admitted to cyber sex with this guy.

 

We nearly divorced right then but finally decided on therapy. Our therapist was not very good and let us get away without facing much, but it worked for the short term and 5 years later we're still married.

 

She said that the OM provided some level of affection that I wasn't showing her. Problem is, I've always been the sensitive, affectionate one. She has always been the one pushing me away.

 

I'm not dumb, I know that I have blended my insecurites from my first wife in with my current, and that there is plenty of irrationality from that. This is why I would like to year from you.

 

My problem is that I don't trust her now, and don't imagine that I ever will. I'm always suspicious, I get through the roof upset when I think she might be telling even a white lie, we don't talk for days when I get suspicious, and I'm always looking to 'catch' her again. Now this all goes on while I'm watching her every move (and she knows I am), and I know that she's NOT doing anything to deserve my distrust, and hasn't for the past 5 years.

 

Neither of us drink, she only rarely (2-3 times a year) goes out with friends for more than an hour, and even then she makes sure that I know every detail of what she's up to even without me asking a thing. She prefers to stay at home and play a video game, watch TV, or play with our girl. She's very insecure with herself and won't believe me when I call her beautiful. I'm almost exactly the same way in all respects. However, I do not feel much affection from her and she's content with the amount of affection between us. If anything, I'm smothering her.

 

I'm always asking to take her out and she usually finds an excuse not to go but has no problem going with friends for a quick after-work/before-class dinner.

 

I'm fairly certain that she does not like me and perhaps never did, but she stays because she's scared of living on her own. I believe that if any other man gives her any amount of attention that she'll jump him. I don't want a divorce because I don't want my daughter growing up in a broken home and I take my vows very seriously (and literally). It is also isn't financially viable at this time, we couldn't afford to live apart for at least a year.

 

I'm so paranoid now that she's going to either lie to me or cheat on me that it consumes me. I want to hold her so tight at times but also hate her for not only lying to me, but also trying to make me think that I was crazy or a bad person for ever suspecting anything. How can I possibly let go of this suspicion? Should I be trying to anymore or should I just do my best to get through the next year then leave? Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

[spriggig]

I don't have any advice but I do have a question because my situation mirrors yours almost exactly (online game and all). Except, it's only 10 weeks since I discovered it all AND mine actually left me and our son for two weeks to meet him.

 

My question is has your mistrust grown or diminished over time, or has it remained the same?

[Rock1972]

That is a tough question. I'd have to say that it is just as strong but a different kind of mistrust, if that makes any sense. In the beginning I was just devastated and the mistrust was very valid and expected on both sides. And yes, it was heavy. I questioned absolutely everything she said.

 

Now that she has been so open with me for so many years, I feel like I should be able to let my guard down. I just can't seem to do it. It's just not as critical or urgent now, it's just there. I believe most of what she tells me, but there's always that 'what if' she's hiding something, and that often spills out into accusations. The thoughts linger and her words and actions are burned into my memory. I seriously doubt I'll ever trust her again. This is my problem.

[seibert253]

The problem of loss of trust is something that IMO all of us BS's share. All of our stories of our WS's affair vary, but the BS's loss of trust is always the same.

 

Some are able to regain full trust over time, others regain a certain amount of trust but never full, and others never regain any trust. I, like you remain in the second catagory. I doubt I'll ever migrate to the first.

 

I surmise our level of trust is gauged upon our WS's remorse, regret, and willingness to do everything in the will to regain the lost trust.

 

My FWW has bent over backwards in attempts to right her wrong. Unfortuantly the way I view it is the damage is done, and she can't unf#ck the OM.

 

I've been the victim of infedelity in the past, with a former fiance', and I'm somewhat shocked I stuck around after this latest trist. If it not for two things, my 8 year old son, and my FWW's 150% effort in repairing her wrong, and improving our floundering M, then I would have jumped ship pronto. I owed the same amount of effort she put forth into saving this, and it worked.

 

I put my trust level with her at about 90%. I doubt it will ever reach 100. I've learned to accept that. Maybe you can too.

[Rock1972]

90% would be nice, I'm probably at around 30% now. How exactly did you get to where you are now? I understand the concept of you at least matching her efforts but in my case, there isn't an ongoing effort...she's all but forgotten about what she did and gets upset with me for dredging up the past if I try to talk about it (I very rarely do, maybe once twice over the past 2 years). It still affects me, she doesn't think it should. Whether it should or not, it just plain does.

[JaneInVegas]

Unless you guys get to the point where you're constantly arguing and yelling at each other in front of the kids, you should try to work it out with her. It sounds like maybe both of you are passive-aggressive, and you'll rarely get confrontational with each other.

 

You say the anxiety of wondering if she's cheating on you consumes you. I can relate with that, been there done that. This is what I did to be able to sleep at night ... after our 2 D-days I installed a keylogger on his computer. There is absolutely nothing private on a computer with a keylogger. Most even have screen shots so you can see incoming messages that were later deleted.

 

Now I have the peace of mind that my SO has been completely clean for quite some time. I'm thinking I may even uninstall it in about a month or so. I have a lot of confidence in him right now. You could either get your proof she's cheating, or, the same peace of mind I have knowing that everything is going okay.

 

I hope you find peace. Life is too short to be miserable.

[spriggig]

I have a friend who is on the other side of this and she said that her SO gave her complete access to cell phone and computer and told her to snoop all she wanted. It helped her trust again. That was 6 years ago and they are fine now.

[spriggig]

That is called self-deception

 

Nah, you'd need to talk to them. They're fine. Maybe since they're lesbians they handle this stuff better.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Though I am not trying to minimize her actions... it was a cyber affair with a guy 1500 miles away 5 years ago!

 

As you openly admit by bold and underlining "My problem is," the issue is your to deal with. Try individual counseling if need be.

 

The last 3 paragraphs in the OP are the most telling to me.

 

I remember my wife telling me "you are so much more attractive and desireable when you are confident and secure." It's really one of the most basic elements of being attractive - self condfidence.

 

What I must point out to you is that if you are truly secure in yourself and confident that you are worthy, at that point it will not matter what route she chooses. She can choose to maintain your fidelity (which she has in my opinion done for 12 years), or she may jump some guy who she thinks will be the answer to her hopes and dreams... But the likelyhood is that once you are condfident and secure and she sees that, she may be more attracted to you either all of the sudden or over time.

 

Good Luck!

[BlueeyedJonesy]

It sounds to me like your first marriage really messed with your trust in anyone..I mean your wife(someone you should be able to trust with anything) and your Best friend (someone you should also be able to trust and go to with your problems) that is earth shattering and I'm sorry you had to go through that. But this is about both you and your W's insecurities. I think you need to see an IC. I know how it feels not to trust anyone, and it sucks. I have been where your wife is..except there actually was a time when my H didn't show me affection. She seems to have low self esteem. Please please PLEASE...don't assume that staying with your wife is whats best for your daughter..my parents masked all of the heartache and resentment and put on their "happy faces" everyday and it really messed with me and I got older. Good luck to you and I hope you find peace.

[Rock1972]

Thank you for the remarks, many have been helpful to me and I'm sorry to hear that trust issues aren't more scarce.

 

@She's NotInLove: Yes, that will be one of the first things on my goals list when I see my new therapist. When I've blown my top and all that hatred is stirred up again I feel like that and it feels good, though obviously it's not the healthy/right way to get to that point.

 

She currently is and has been wide open to me to the best of my knowledge. I have all of her passwords, maintain the phone bills, etc. A couple problems here. I've found fairly recently that if I do go snooping, I usually find something innocent that my mind turns into something potentially dishonest. The way things work for me now is when I have a bad day or think too hard about 'bad' things, I then pop and bring up whatever I 'think' I found. So far, every single time this has happened it turned out to be nothing as proven by good evidence and I ended up looking like a nutjob (jury is still out of whether this is fact or not). I've stopped snooping just because I always seem to find something that can be taken wrong and I end up feeling like crap until the next fight. On the other hand, if she wants to get away with something, she knows exactly what to do, open a new email account that I don't know anything about and only use it from work...just like she did before. No way for me to know, even with a keylogger (not easy to install it at her workplace though certainly not impossible).

 

@Blue: Yes, I know that most of our current problems do actually come from my first marriage. Not even just that, I have a long history of getting knives in the back from literally every best friend I've ever had. I used to be way too trusting, now I don't even let myself trust my own mother. My daughter isn't the only reason for me to stay, I know that staying could do just as much harm as leaving, but that depends heavily on the conditions and what can be resolved in the new future.

 

The thing that is driving her away are the times when I pop up with the accusations out of the blue, just due to me snapping. She says that she can't handle it, going from a good marriage to on the verge of divorce at the drop of a hat. I VERY rarely say anything about why I'm like that with her, she should know it, but I think it's so far in the past now that she doesn't allow for it to be a justification for me to be suspicious.

[spriggig]

I've stopped snooping just because I always seem to find something that can be taken wrong and I end up feeling like crap until the next fight.

Like four weeks ago when I found birth control pills when I thought my wife had an IUD. Wheeeeeeee!

 

Oh, turns out they were prescribed for something innocent.

 

I don't snoop anymore.

Edited March 18, 2010 by spriggig