Author Tnerforireyeh Posted March 17, 2010 Author Posted March 17, 2010 Scottdmw, the first intelligent response in the thread! congrats, you are a rare breed on LS.org.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 17, 2010 Posted March 17, 2010 He is! I will second that. It's nice to see.
Woggle Posted March 17, 2010 Posted March 17, 2010 I think that vibrators are the female version of porn. Both involve sexual gratification that does not involve the partner or anybody else for that matter. Not all porn is about smacking around and degrading women either. There are guys like me who simply owned a few playboys when he was single and now has no need for them while married. I don't even know if I still have them or not.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Actually, what would be equal to vibrators for women are sex toys for men that mimic a fake vagina. *that* is truly a fair comparison. Why wouldn't you compare a female sex toy to a a male sex toy? Vibrator (fake penis) comparable to fake vagina for men. Period. And no, not all porn is smacking around women. However, all porn stereotypes women on some level, pegs them into little boxes wher etheir only use is to be a receptical for a man. You got men from 20-45 looking at 18-25 year old women. You get married, have a man's chidlren and you can look forward to 20 years from now him looking at the same age group of women he was when you met him and you were that age. Don't men treat women great? And you guys wonder why there are so many unhappy women married or in relationships.
Woggle Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 You also have Playgirl magazines and women drooling over teenage vampires from all ages. I see nothing wrong with this because sexual attraction is normal in both men and women. Comparing every type of sexual or erotic entertainment to violent porn which I have never had any interest in is being very close minded. There is also violent porn plus gay male porn that is completely degrading to men though I admit it is not very popular. Go to any adult sex shops in the East Village and you can find any porn that you want to satisfy a fetish.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Who looks at Playgirl??????? What heterosexual woman does anyway? And to be honest, I don't know one grown woman amongst my friends or women I work with that lust after teenage vampires. Yeah, I am sure those women are out there but they aren't seeing these guys naked and hoping to boff them behind their husbands backs. But maybe you are onto something. Maybe we do need more teenage vampire boys for women to lust after. That way, men can spend their time infront of their computers wishing they could bang the babysitter and women can spend their time watching the love story between two teenagers and not one gender has to do anything for the other expect self fullfill themselves on marketed sold products. That sound like a good solution to you? And who compared violent porn to everything sexual and erotic? POrn doesn't need to be violent to be degrading, objectifying and stereotyping. You want to talk about close minded? LOL, that's all porn is. Pegging women into a very narrow small pigeon hole. But again, as you illustrate, it's okay to do that to women. However, men are clearly better and more important and how dare we do that to a man. And really, you are one to talk Woogle. If there was an industry in equal measure that treated men like porn treats women, you would be the first one complaining about it.
Woggle Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 I guess you didn't see all those middle aged women losing their minds at the Twlight premier late last year. I am not complaining about it but it is not much different than men drooling over the latest centerfold. Porn like Playboy and other mags is purely visual which does not mean a man does not respect or wants to degrade these women. I don't defend men who get off on violent porn or porn that purosely degrades women and I do not defend them but I do not know many men who like that stuff. You are right that I can be hypocritical but if you read my other thread I am serious about trying to drop this bitterness. I am trying to turn over a new leaf because it is getting me nowhere.
Author Tnerforireyeh Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 Ok, well we got one intelligent response out of this thread, one more than usual. I'm signing off.
Jersey Shortie Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 I guess you didn't see all those middle aged women losing their minds at the Twlight premier late last year. I am not complaining about it but it is not much different than men drooling over the latest centerfold. Oh yes, I know there were women who liked the Twilight series. But I think that has more to do with the love story then the meat in the movie. And women weren't sitting in theaters, or taking that movie home to jerk off too. Although I still think more women then not, are not drooling after Twilight as men drool lover playboy. Porn like Playboy and other mags is purely visual which does not mean a man does not respect or wants to degrade these women. I don't defend men who get off on violent porn or porn that purosely degrades women and I do not defend them but I do not know many men who like that stuff. You just defend porn that stereotypes, idealizes and generalizes women. A porn doesn't have to be violent to be degrading. Porn's main drawl is that it depicts women as nothing more them empty toys there for a man's enjoyment. It teaches that women do not have or deserve pleasure beyond a man's needs. And it sets up false expectations that I think men buy into while trying to peg "feminity" into such a small box that most women don't live up to. If women had an industry that they masturbated to that showcased all the men below a certain age, with perfect bodies, that made millions of dollars and did nothing but take women out on expensive dates and bought them shows and sometimes through in a slap on the face to the guy from the women or her calling him a derogatory name, *then* we would have something to compare to porn. But we don't. Because women don't get off on belittlign men like men seem to get off on belitting women. I will say it again. Porn doesn't have to be violent to be degrading and objectifying. You want women to believe that men respect them so much al lthe while, behind closed doors, men are treating them like garbage cans. You are right that I can be hypocritical but if you read my other thread I am serious about trying to drop this bitterness. I am trying to turn over a new leaf because it is getting me nowhere. Well, I sincerely hope you can accomplish what you want to accomplish Woogle and be the man you want to be.
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 And women weren't sitting in theaters, or taking that movie home to jerk off too. I dunno, JS - there was a 'sparkly' temperature-retaining pale dildo that was marketed so that women could put the dildo in the fridge and have a 'vampire' experience when they were masturbating to Edward (or Jacob, I suppose if they didn't want to refrigerate the dildo).
Jersey Shortie Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 A. That's gross. B. Not at all mainstream. Can you imagine? Husband/bf: Hunnie, I can't find the left over chicken you made last night. Wife/gf: It's right next to the giant cold dildo under the milk Sweetums.
ADF Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Your analogy is right on target and has been made before. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to talk about this, because the waters have been so thoroughly poisoned. Trying to reason with an anti-porn zealot, whether they are a fundamentalist Christian or an Andrea Dworkin style uber-feminist is pointless. They KNOW they're right, they KNOW you're wrong, and nothing--NOTHING--you say will change their minds. Ever.
Engadget Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 I dunno, JS - there was a 'sparkly' temperature-retaining pale dildo that was marketed so that women could put the dildo in the fridge and have a 'vampire' experience when they were masturbating to Edward (or Jacob, I suppose if they didn't want to refrigerate the dildo). Really? That's crazy!
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Really? That's crazy! Yeah, no joke! I saw it on DListed (a blog I like). Those Twihards are something else.
Woggle Posted March 19, 2010 Posted March 19, 2010 Your analogy is right on target and has been made before. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to talk about this, because the waters have been so thoroughly poisoned. Trying to reason with an anti-porn zealot, whether they are a fundamentalist Christian or an Andrea Dworkin style uber-feminist is pointless. They KNOW they're right, they KNOW you're wrong, and nothing--NOTHING--you say will change their minds. Ever. I do find that the extreme anti-porn feminists and the religious right have a lot in common.
MichelleZB Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 I kind of see romance novels as just another kind of porn... like a softcore subset of porn. It titillates and presents a romantic/sexual fantasy, which is exactly what porn does. I want to shy away from the idea that romance novels are women's porn, because as it's been pointed out, not all women read romance novels and some of them watch mainstream porn. So I just bump up the number of women porn-consumers in my head to include those who read romance novels, which is to me a kind of porn.
ADF Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 I do find that the extreme anti-porn feminists and the religious right have a lot in common. On this one issue, yes. On other issues, not at all. I am actually quite pro-feminist. I think the anti-porn feminists--and not all feminists belong to this camp--have got it wrong on this issue.
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