Surprisingly hung up on the strip club

[16thstreet]

A little general background... I am in a LDR (approaching a year) and engaged (about 6 months) to a guy that is about 10 years older. We are at the age where this gap, while significant, is not entirely odd.

 

What I've been pouring over....

My S.O. likes to go to strip clubs, with some frequency. He's been an adult male for nearly half of his life, so his going to strip clubs didn't surprise me. Before becoming involved with him I had never actually been to a club, but certainly (especially as I've matured a little) found them intriguing and started understanding their place. Needless to say, when we started dating, I wanted to be completely open-minded about clubs and as such have gone a number of times with him. For me, the experience was okay... the first time it was definitely interesting to see and kind of sexy, but after a few times I found it a bit monotonous and boring. That said, if he likes it, doesn't find it monotonous and boring, and he is indeed a grown man, who am I to judge it? In fact, hallelujah that he probably will never get bored with it. This has been my view for a while.

 

I thought that I had completely reconciled my seed of discomfort with the fact that he, like many guys (and a number of women), really enjoy the fantasy of the club. I thought that I was extremely progressive and had no petty hang-ups. A fabulous modern woman! However, when he was at the club a few weeks ago, he was texting me lovely little texts and I was texting him back how happy I was that he'd asked me to marry him and so forth. Only part way through this texting conversation did I realize that he was at a strip club (read: he told me). Two things were just slightly off-putting to me -- that was there alone (he usually goes with buddies), and that he was texting me this stuff between the two lap dances he purchased.

 

I've been thinking about why I found it a little off. There are few things.

 

First, in part it is due to the fact that I had framed the justification for clubs (because I felt it needed a justification even though I was trying to be open-minded?) as due to the fact that I also saw it as a social experience with his buddies (and, somehow, male posturing). But, I now know that he visits sometimes on his own, so it's not purely a social issue but also truly a matter of pleasure. Self-deception over and for the better on that point, but I am still sorting out how that makes me feel (insert hails of insecurity if you'd like), but it does certainly make me feel a certain way that I am still exploring.

 

Second, and perhaps related, I just felt strange to have a mixing of the "fantasy" (him being at the club, which no doubt was really happening) with the "reality" of our relationship and how we express how we feel to each other. I realize now that I am tending to withdraw when he goes to clubs, has contact with strippers, or even looks at porn, and that I had been compartmentalizing things somehow. The texts from the club jarred my compartmentalization in a way that was upsetting.

 

This second point was confirmed this past weekend when he went on a ski trip with buddies. The trip was billed to the buddies wives as my S.O.'s bachelor party (so the buddies could have "permission"--), even though we do not yet have a wedding date and the "real" party will happen closer to the wedding (whenever that may be). But, being it as it may, it was billed as a bachelor party so the guys decided to hire a few strippers one night to make it a proper weekend. My S.O. told me about the weekend during a call the following morning, and I asked about the strippers and what they do generally. Admittedly, I am still a bit naive and was a little surprised to learn that the shows are generally much more than merely a private strip club in your living room or hotel room (yes, I've seen plenty of movies where strippers arrive with "tools", but somehow maybe I am just dense but I just thought that was exaggerated T.V... not under-exaggerated TV). Anyway, we talked about it generally, just as we talked about the solo club night a few weeks ago, and just as we tend to try to talk about everything.

 

Getting closer to the point (promise)...

I saw my S.O. later in the day following the bachelor party stripper-night on his way through town and, after not seeing each other for a period, he naturally wanted to be physically intimate. Like I said, I have noticed that I tend to sometimes withdraw for a while when he is around strippers. But, at the same time, I viewed it as supremely unwise to withhold sex after he had shared openly with me. I definitely was afraid of sending the message that if he shares with me, as I've asked him to and want him to, then there will be negative consequences. Of course, if I am feeling withdrawn as a result of the sharing, then there are already negative consequences... but I can choose to mask them or not. To me, this seems like an F'd up catch-22. I have been thinking about it constantly and can't figure it out.

 

I am seeing our potential future: he goes to a club with or without me. I find it a huge turn-off. He finds it a huge turn-on. He wants to make passionate love while I'd rather not see him for a few days. Is my reaction a form of emotional/physical punishment? Sort of a "You are free to make a choice and go to a club/hire strippers with the guys/look at porn... but the consequence is that you, in turn, are not allowed to behold me (at least for some period of time)."?? Or is a turn-off just a turn off?? Either way, I would like to figure out a way to work through whatever is going on for me. It's might be that I can intellectually be completely okay with clubs, strippers, porn, but emotionally have a different reaction. I do not even understand how that is possible.

 

I am not looking for any particular answer, but I would definitely appreciate some reasoned insight or perspective.

[Tnerforireyeh]

Guys going to a strip club on occasion is normal. Going all the time is a little strange. Having fun with your buddies is one thing, leering at live nude girls with sweat on your brow and your mouth agape is something else.

[16thstreet]

Guys going to a strip club on occasion is normal. Going all the time is a little strange. Having fun with your buddies is one thing, leering at live nude girls with sweat on your brow and your mouth agape is something else.

 

Yes, I realize. I do not think he is abnormal, nor do I think he is acting inappropriately, nor do I think he's in danger of catching any flies. What I am trying to figure out is some of my reaction, which surprises me (the hang up in the title is MY hang up, not his).

[sweetjasmine]

However, when he was at the club a few weeks ago, he was texting me lovely little texts and I was texting him back how happy I was that he'd asked me to marry him and so forth. Only part way through this texting conversation did I realize that he was at a strip club (read: he told me). Two things were just slightly off-putting to me -- that was there alone (he usually goes with buddies), and that he was texting me this stuff between the two lap dances he purchased.

 

I'm sorry, but. If I were engaged and my fiance did that, it'd literally make me feel sick to my stomach. I would find impossible to separate him saying how he wanted to marry me from the fact that a practically naked woman was giving him a lap dance and rubbing up against him. I would find it incredibly disrespectful and inappropriate, but then again, I think hanging out in a strip club and getting lap dances is inappropriate for people who are in serious relationships.

 

Still, I don't think it's odd for you to have an emotional or visceral reaction even though you're okay with it all intellectually. There's something about knowing your partner is seeking out sexual contact with random women while at the same time telling you how he wants to spend his life with you that doesn't quite fit. It might be that some of us can separate sex/sexual contact from intimacy, emotions, etc. better than others.

 

Maybe this might help you figure out why it bothers you. Imagine you liked going out and clubbing as frequently as he likes going to strip clubs. Would you feel comfortable grinding with guys you thought were cute, knowing that it'd never go beyond that? Would he be okay with it?

 

Your reaction isn't necessarily a hang-up. It may or may not be, and only you can tell where you draw the line between you having a hang-up and something being inappropriate or out of bounds.

[16thstreet]

I'm sorry, but. If I were engaged and my fiance did that, it'd literally make me feel sick to my stomach. I would find impossible to separate him saying how he wanted to marry me from the fact that a practically naked woman was giving him a lap dance and rubbing up against him. I would find it incredibly disrespectful and inappropriate, but then again, I think hanging out in a strip club and getting lap dances is inappropriate for people who are in serious relationships.

 

No need to be sorry, it is your opinion. It did not make me sick to my stomach at all. But I did have a bit of a reaction that surprised me. Maybe because I do find it slightly inappropriate. After he told me he was at the club, I told him that I was uncomfortable talking to him in that manner when he was at the club. He left the club immediately and said that, for the first time ever, he questioned why he'd gone (mainly, I think he was just bored). I guess I see this whole thing is how relationships should work. He does something or says something that causes me to reflect a little on myself in a way that I would not have before, and vice-versa.

 

Still, I don't think it's odd for you to have an emotional or visceral reaction even though you're okay with it all intellectually. There's something about knowing your partner is seeking out sexual contact with random women while at the same time telling you how he wants to spend his life with you that doesn't quite fit.

 

Perhaps. But, it is more like an old routine than random sexual contact.

 

It might be that some of us can separate sex/sexual contact from intimacy, emotions, etc. better than others.

 

Hehe. I think men can.

 

Maybe this might help you figure out why it bothers you.

 

Agreed... which is why I posted. I've been mulling it over in my head and decided to ask for additional perspectives.

 

Imagine you liked going out and clubbing as frequently as he likes going to strip clubs. Would you feel comfortable grinding with guys you thought were cute, knowing that it'd never go beyond that? Would he be okay with it?

 

If they were friends or if they were paid for their services, I think it would be a different situation from the one you are positing. However, I do think that ultimately, even if he would not be happiest with my choice to do so, he trusts that dancing at a club would not go beyond that. I also trust that he occasionally enjoys porn, clubs, strippers for the same reasons most normal guys do and would not go beyond that. Usually. Maybe I just have a creeping insecurity.

 

Your reaction isn't necessarily a hang-up. It may or may not be, and only you can tell where you draw the line between you having a hang-up and something being inappropriate or out of bounds.

 

Fair enough. Thanks for the thoughts!

[16thstreet]

I should probably mention that the night he went to the club a few weeks ago, my S.O. was traveling regionally for business. He had planned on meeting up with an old friend at a bar he didn't care for, and after the buddy failed to show then my S.O. went to the club (with the thought that if he was going to have a beer alone, he'd much rather do it at the club than at the lame bar he was sitting at).

[MalachiX]

I'm a guy and I gotta say that I think this is a bigger issue than you're willing to awknowladge. Yes, we're always going to have sexual urges and most guys are going to occasionally want to look at porn and maybe even go to a strip club every once in a while. I personally have never gone to a strip club while in a relationship but I don't really like strip clubs anyway and have only gone when dragged by friends.

 

The problem here is that it sounds like he's going to the clubs on a regular basis and, more importantly, that he's willing to go alone. This makes it seem like they are a bigger part of his life then most women would be comfortable with. To me, the difference between a strip club and just watching porn is that a strip club takes one a lot closer to the real thing. One is in close physical proximity to a woman and interacting with her. It's not about the quick physical relief of masterbation (as with porn) but rather the sexual interaction with another woman. I would not be comfortable with this during a relationship at all.

 

I don't think you should question your reaction. Of course it makes you uncomfortable that he gets so horny after going to the club. There's nothing wrong with couples trying to keep their sex lives interesting by getting a little outside stimulation but I think this goes a bit further than that.

 

Ultimately, the bottom line is that it's all about what you're comfortable with. If you really are fine with strip clubs being such a prominant part of his life then it's your own business and nobody should tell you how to feel. However, it sounds like perhaps your a tad more old-fashioned than you're willing to admit.

 

I think the best thing to do is just to tell him how you feel. Don't give him an ultimatum or anything but let him know exactly how it affects you when he's horny after oggling other women. If he's a good guy, he'll probably cut back the club time out of respect for you.

[sweetjasmine]

But I did have a bit of a reaction that surprised me. Maybe because I do find it slightly inappropriate.

 

Maybe you do. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but then again, I'm obviously biased.

 

After he told me he was at the club, I told him that I was uncomfortable talking to him in that manner when he was at the club.

 

I think you're on to something about the fantasy aspect and all of a sudden mixing that with your real relationship.

 

Perhaps. But, it is more like an old routine than random sexual contact.

 

Yeah, fair enough. It's more like a ritual of sorts, in a way, and like you said, it can be a male bonding experience. But by random I just meant that it doesn't really matter who the women are.

 

Hehe. I think men can.

 

Not all. And some women can, too.

 

If they were friends or if they were paid for their services, I think it would be a different situation from the one you are positing. However, I do think that ultimately, even if he would not be happiest with my choice to do so, he trusts that dancing at a club would not go beyond that. I also trust that he occasionally enjoys porn, clubs, strippers for the same reasons most normal guys do and would not go beyond that. Usually. Maybe I just have a creeping insecurity.

 

Well, what I was trying to get at was sort-of-sexual contact with other guys, even though you both know it's just for fun. Would you feel okay with that or would it make you feel a little uncomfortable?

 

From what you wrote, it doesn't sound like a trust issue for you at all. You don't sound like you're insecure about it or about your relationship.

 

Does the porn thing bother you as much or is it just/mostly the strip club? MalachiX brought up some good points about that, and I agree with him that the two are different. Porn doesn't bother me, but strip clubs do.

 

As for wanting to stay away from him for a little while, do you think it bothers you in part because he's getting aroused by other women and then going to you? Or is that not accurate?

[boogieboy]

Are you avoiding telling him that going to the strip clubs bothers you, hoping that he will get it out of his system eventually?

 

Do you think you will lose him if you say to him "I dont want to be near you when you go to the strip club"?

[Silver_star]

Im sorry that you are so desperate for this marriage to happen and this relationship to work that you make excuses for his unacceptable and creepy behavior. Good luck sacrificing for the rest of your life with him and giving him every thing he wants and needs only to be neglected and treated poorly in return...you made it all possible by your willingness to settle and accept the treatment with a smile...and thinking there is something wrong with you. I think the thing that is wrong here is your self esteem.

[16thstreet]

Are you avoiding telling him that going to the strip clubs bothers you, hoping that he will get it out of his system eventually?

 

Do you think you will lose him if you say to him "I dont want to be near you when you go to the strip club"?

 

I am not avoiding telling him that it bothers me. We have discussed the recent trip and I told him that I was bothered but that I couldn't explain why it was that I was bothered exactly.

 

I do not think that it would end our relationship if I said anything to him regarding how I was feeling about this or any other topic. Quite the opposite actually. Usually when I am able to tell him how I am feeling or what it is that I am thinking, we end up closer than ever. I posted this to try to perhaps find some insight on what might be triggering the feeling so that I can articulate it to myself and to him more clearly.

[16thstreet]

Im sorry that you are so desperate for this marriage to happen and this relationship to work that you make excuses for his unacceptable and creepy behavior. Good luck sacrificing for the rest of your life with him and giving him every thing he wants and needs only to be neglected and treated poorly in return...you made it all possible by your willingness to settle and accept the treatment with a smile...and thinking there is something wrong with you.

 

I am sorry that you have to make sweeping judgments without having a clue who I am or what my values are without have anything close to a clue as to whether I am treated "neglected" or "poorly" in my relationship.

 

I think the thing that is wrong here is your self esteem.

 

Perhaps, but probably not in the way you are considering it.

[16thstreet]

I'm a guy and I gotta say that I think this is a bigger issue than you're willing to awknowladge. Yes, we're always going to have sexual urges and most guys are going to occasionally want to look at porn and maybe even go to a strip club every once in a while. I personally have never gone to a strip club while in a relationship but I don't really like strip clubs anyway and have only gone when dragged by friends.

 

To me, always the biggest issue is understanding myself and my reactions. When I do not understand that, it is a big deal to me. While I certainly appreciate that many people at LS find porn and clubs totally unacceptable, repulsive, morally corrupt, etc, I tend to agree with others like FryFish who has recently posted on a related topic.

 

The problem here is that it sounds like he's going to the clubs on a regular basis and, more importantly, that he's willing to go alone. This makes it seem like they are a bigger part of his life then most women would be comfortable with. To me, the difference between a strip club and just watching porn is that a strip club takes one a lot closer to the real thing. One is in close physical proximity to a woman and interacting with her. It's not about the quick physical relief of masterbation (as with porn) but rather the sexual interaction with another woman. I would not be comfortable with this during a relationship at all.

 

I do not see going to a club, even a dozen or so times a year, as anything alarming in theory. It is very uncommon for him to go alone. I also do not see the fact that the experience is about pleasure as inherently problematic, which is why I am confused by this bit of emotional upwelling.

 

I don't think you should question your reaction. Of course it makes you uncomfortable that he gets so horny after going to the club. There's nothing wrong with couples trying to keep their sex lives interesting by getting a little outside stimulation but I think this goes a bit further than that.

 

I always think it is important to question reactions! But, I disagree that his behavior is basically outside the acceptable realm of normal.

 

Ultimately, the bottom line is that it's all about what you're comfortable with. If you really are fine with strip clubs being such a prominant part of his life then it's your own business and nobody should tell you how to feel. However, it sounds like perhaps your a tad more old-fashioned than you're willing to admit.

 

I think the best thing to do is just to tell him how you feel. Don't give him an ultimatum or anything but let him know exactly how it affects you when he's horny after oggling other women. If he's a good guy, he'll probably cut back the club time out of respect for you.

 

I don't know about them being a "prominent" part of his life. I guess that depends on your definition. I do think that perhaps part of it has to do with the fact that we are not yet living together. I do agree that telling how I feel is pretty key. If I told him not to go, he wouldn't go out of respect for my feelings. But, I also think that kind of ultimatum would harm our relationship much more than if I didn't try to figure out my own reactions. IMO they have no place in respectful, mature relationships.

[16thstreet]

Maybe you do. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but then again, I'm obviously biased.

 

We all have them.

 

 

I think you're on to something about the fantasy aspect and all of a sudden mixing that with your real relationship.

 

I think so too. I wonder why I had to compartmentalize to begin with, but I have some ideas.

 

 

Yeah, fair enough. It's more like a ritual of sorts, in a way, and like you said, it can be a male bonding experience. But by random I just meant that it doesn't really matter who the women are.

 

I understand your point.

 

 

 

Well, what I was trying to get at was sort-of-sexual contact with other guys, even though you both know it's just for fun. Would you feel okay with that or would it make you feel a little uncomfortable?

 

From what you wrote, it doesn't sound like a trust issue for you at all. You don't sound like you're insecure about it or about your relationship.

 

If it was just for fun, I am pretty sure it would be okay, and if it wasn't we'd definitely be talking about it. Perhaps we should proactively talk about it a little more than we have.

 

Does the porn thing bother you as much or is it just/mostly the strip club? MalachiX brought up some good points about that, and I agree with him that the two are different. Porn doesn't bother me, but strip clubs do.

 

As for wanting to stay away from him for a little while, do you think it bothers you in part because he's getting aroused by other women and then going to you? Or is that not accurate?

 

It's funny, because sometimes the strip clubs do not bother me at all. When I start feeling sensitive about one, I feel sensitive about the other as well. While MalachiX is definitely correct that the two are different, I seem to be okay or not okay with both depending.

 

There is something troubling me about arousal from other women and then going to me... but seriously would I prefer that he didn't come to me? No way! I know many people will disagree with me here. My personal view is that a monogamous relationship means intercourse and deep friendship with one person, but it does not require total devotion of all sexual thoughts or feelings (I have had that relationship and I found it suffocating).

[boogieboy]

I posted this to try to perhaps find some insight on what might be triggering the feeling so that I can articulate it to myself and to him more clearly.

 

I think you want to be rational and not let emotions take over, but its your deep woman-ness that is telling you that you want him to not need strippers to gawk over, you want him to WANT to gawk over you. You want him to admire ONLY your body. If he's marrying you, he shouldnt need to look at a fantasy really. I think thats the reason you dont want to be near him after he goes to the strip club.

 

What he's basically doing is the equivalent to you and him walking down the street and he's pointing out how great other womens body parts are...and how they are better than yours.

 

He calls you between lap dances, and as open minded as you want to be, you dont want to picture his hands all over strippers griding on him.

[16thstreet]

I think you want to be rational and not let emotions take over, but its your deep woman-ness that is telling you that you want him to not need strippers to gawk over, you want him to WANT to gawk over you. You want him to admire ONLY your body. If he's marrying you, he shouldnt need to look at a fantasy really. I think thats the reason you dont want to be near him after he goes to the strip club.

 

He definitely gawks over me and showers me with amazing attention! If he did not but still was fairly interested in clubs etc, then I would be really concerned. I personally disagree that it is realistic for him to admire ONLY my body. You may have a point regarding "needing" to look at fantasy on some level though.

 

What he's basically doing is the equivalent to you and him walking down the street and he's pointing out how great other womens body parts are...and how they are better than yours.

 

No, it is not the same. As an aside, I can definitely appreciate that while I am attractive and great, there could possibly be a woman with bigger breasts, or a woman with better calves, or another woman with great abs. I do not need him to make me aware of basic reality.

 

He calls you between lap dances, and as open minded as you want to be, you dont want to picture his hands all over strippers griding on him.

 

And that is it, right? In that particular situation, I did not. However, I have been to clubs with him and even found it sexy before (we both had lap dances). So, it is not some universal condemnation. If it was, then it would be much more clear.

[boogieboy]

I do not need him to make me aware of basic reality.

 

Basic reality is one thing, denial is another. he contacted you between lap dances. Your reaction to it was basic jealousy. You can deny it all you want, but your gut is telling you that you would rather he didnt.

Maybe discuss it with him, maybe he can help you discover why it bugs you... hopefully for his sake he will stop.

Edited March 16, 2010 by boogieboy

[16thstreet]

Basic reality is one thing, denial is another. he contacted you between lap dances. Your reaction to it was basic jealousy. You can deny it all you want, but your gut is telling you that you would rather he didnt.

Maybe discuss it with him, maybe he can help tell you why it bugs you...

 

Fair enough, but I do not think it is fair to say that I am denying that I had a reaction. What I tend to do when I react in a way that surprises me is to think about why I might have reacted that way and then talk about it. I've been thinking about this reaction for a while and haven't been able to get a solid handle on it, so posted here for some potential prompting or challenges that might help me begin the convo. But, perhaps you're right and I should just start the conversation.

[boogieboy]

Fair enough, but I do not think it is fair to say that I am denying that I had a reaction. What I tend to do when I react in a way that surprises me is to think about why I might have reacted that way and then talk about it. I've been thinking about this reaction for a while and haven't been able to get a solid handle on it, so posted here for some potential prompting or challenges that might help me begin the convo. But, perhaps you're right and I should just start the conversation.

 

Yeah there are people here that could probably give you some more insight, but I dont understand why they arent posting.

 

I know youre not denying having a reaction, but perhaps youre denying that the reaction could be jealousy, and thats what the trigger is?

[rebeccajones]

You need to think about how you really feel. I think he has a bit of a problem not you. Seems as if your reaction is normal or that anyone would get emotional over his actions. I don't think his actions are conducive to a good relationship. Talk to him as BB said tell him that it bothered you when he texted you and that it is beginning to bother you and go from there. To me it sounds like he could have an addiction.

[Silver_star]

To me..tryign to be that cool open minded girlfriend is all well and good, but how long will you let it go on? Are you going to have kids with this man? Are you going to have to tell them "daddies at the peelers honey, he will be home to tuck you in shortly". I just think if you make it okay now your not going to be able to justify making it not okay later.

 

Also...if your okay with women grinding on him (as long as he pays) he will likely cheat on you with a woman if the opportunity presented itself (for free) because your such a damn cool girlfriend so open minded you will surely understand.

[16thstreet]

Yeah there are people here that could probably give you some more insight, but I dont understand why they arent posting.

 

I know youre not denying having a reaction, but perhaps youre denying that the reaction could be jealousy, and thats what the trigger is?

 

It is definitely something to think about. Maybe it was jealousy because I am far away.

[16thstreet]

To me..tryign to be that cool open minded girlfriend is all well and good, but how long will you let it go on? Are you going to have kids with this man? .... I just think if you make it okay now your not going to be able to justify making it not okay later.

 

I understand your view, but disagree. As I mentioned above, sometimes I have actually enjoyed the clubs too, but sometimes I have had a reaction that surprised me.

 

Are you going to have to tell them "daddies at the peelers honey, he will be home to tuck you in shortly".

 

Hahaha, maybe. Seriously, because a guy goes to club a few times a year, he is going to not be a good father?

 

Also...if your okay with women grinding on him (as long as he pays) he will likely cheat on you with a woman if the opportunity presented itself (for free) because your such a damn cool girlfriend so open minded you will surely understand.

 

Actually, I tend to think that issuing ultimatums against clubs or porn or other friends the like would be much more likely to lead to a man cheating one someone.

[boogieboy]

It is definitely something to think about. Maybe it was jealousy because I am far away.

 

Him going alone is where I really would question what he's thinking, so I can understand if you get the feeling when youre not with him there. I just hope for your sake he doesnt increase his frequency. Have you ever asked WHY he needs to go alone to the clubs? What satisfaction does he get out of it? I think knowing his motives would help you unfeel better about this.

 

Strip clubs are called "peelers"??? hahahaha

[Ms. Joolie]

Either way, I would like to figure out a way to work through whatever is going on for me. It's might be that I can intellectually be completely okay with clubs, strippers, porn, but emotionally have a different reaction. I do not even understand how that is possible.

 

ugh. Just decide once and for all... "Can I allow the man of my life to go off to strip clubs? Am I going to be okay with this?"

 

It's a yes or no answer. Doesn't matter the reasoning behind your answer. But pick one answer for yourself and have the integrity and commitment to stick to it. Accept the consequences.