Psst! Ladies can I ask you something?

[Tnerforireyeh]

It's threads like these that make it clear that these boards are populated by people who shouldn't be giving advice to others. No offense to anyone in particular, but it's true. I just see a lot of man-hating women and women-fearing men here. Again, no offense. I'm not talking about anyone in particular, just the overall vibe.

[Woggle]

Actually you crybaby males are the ones who closer resemble females with your crybaby attitude towards women, so you all should consider castration......or give homosexuality a chance.

 

How is simply speaking how you feel being a crybaby? It's the so called enlightened men who will be crying when their wife loses the attraction and takes off with some player who knows how to make her respect him.

[Twenty-ten]

Stillafool I have seen this too and not just around here. I've talked to men who were extra emotional because of past relationships and they had a very hard time letting go. Again, I attribute this to guys not having a solid support system or someone close enough to them who will kick them in the butt and tell them, don't do this in front of women you are interested in as it will instantly turn them off.

[Rearden Metal]

Other than the part about emotions, none of what you've listed below is "new".

 

Men are more emotional nowadays because women hold increasing power and influence. On a human level, this is a great progression. It's validating and empowering women and that is as it should be.

 

However, relationships between men and women have had much more defined gender roles for millions of years. And on a basic level, men want to dominate women, and women want to have a dominant man. It's just the way it's always been.

 

What you're seeing now is a confused response system from both genders about what exactly their roles are. And even if it's agreed that we are progressing as a race, it's probably up for question whether the role of man and women in a relationship will continue as a male dominant relationship.

 

Cliffnotes: Women want men to grab them by the hair and drag them to their cave. However, now they also want to reserve the right to have the man kiss them goodbye as they go off to work and run for president and stuff. It creates confusion.

[sally4sara]

Women cheat and abuse men a lot, or just as much. Thing is it's not as publicized, and people pretend it doesn't exist. Women cheating is actually getting worse and worse over the years, and they'll push men to marry and then divorce them at a high rate for some demented reason.

 

I don't see people pretending it doesn't happen. I just see them giving it as much concern as men did when they were the ones commonly dish it out.

 

Except the men folk - OH NOW they think its wrong.

 

Look wrong is wrong. It happening to men equally now isn't what makes it wrong.

[Ruby Slippers]

Cliffnotes: Women want men to grab them by the hair and drag them to their cave. However, now they also want to reserve the right to have the man kiss them goodbye as they go off to work and run for president and stuff. It creates confusion.

Rearden Metal, that was a great post.

 

Let me ask the men a question.

 

Most of my friends are smart, entrepreneurial women, and one of our biggest problems in relationships is that our guys have a hard time dealing with our success, especially if it overshadows theirs at any point. I am sad to say that I have seen some of them act like children in their attempts to criticize and knock us down a peg or two when they feel threatened like this.

 

But we don't rub it in their faces. Far from it! We are proud of them when they kick butt, and we hope they can be proud of us, too. They are supportive for the most part, but some of them have admitted they are jealous of our success, even though they wish they weren't. It brings out their insecurities and gets them talking about how they're afraid we're going to leave them for "someone better", which to me sounds ridiculous. I want to be successful and happy and share my success and happiness with the man I love!

 

I've grown past the point of dumbing myself down so men will like me more. I hope that is not the answer. And I would hate to have to downplay my happiness in those moments of accomplishment. That would be really sad. But I would be more able to do that than to pretend to be something I'm not (dumb).

 

What can a successful woman do to soften the impact of this? Seriously, tell me what to do.

[Crazy Magnet]

I think the contradictions are evenly distributed on both sides, even here on LS. I too believe much of the confusions stems from the shift in roles. It has only been recently that women have been able to support themselves without a man, or have children without a man, or have a chance at top notch medical schools and law school. I think it's natural for there to be some "issues" on both sides as we all figure out where we stand again. Some people will still prefer traditional roles, while others will prefer to embrace new roles or make up entirely new roles for themselves and a SO (I tend to be in this camp....I think it's up to each couple to decide what traditional and non traditional roles work for them.)

 

It's hard to reverse several hundred years of living and thinking one way to a completely new way in only a few decades.

[threebyfate]

Hey, stillafool, glad you posted this thread!

 

I couldn't agree more that some men appear to be more emotional nowadays, particularly the younger set.

 

IMO, these guys are either the product of a limited number of militant feminists gone awry or enabling families. We taught them to be in touch with their sensitive sides and treated them like little princesses but forgot to factor in the effects of testosterone, where when testies flare up, they want to destroy and ultimately "win". When you have a male princess with no coping skills, well...

 

I sincerely thank god, that I'm not twenty-something and still dating.

[Twenty-ten]

I can only speak from my POV, but people who let their jobs define them just confuse me.

 

 

People who let their jobs define them are people who are happily following the careers that they are passionate about, and making money while they are at it. How can we not let our jobs define us, it is one of the many hats we wear in our lifetime so why would it be any different when it comes to career?

 

What is it that confuses you about that?

 

If someone is a parent would you tell them don't let the fact that you are a parent define you, you are a human being not a parent?

[Crazy Magnet]

I can only speak from my POV, but people who let their jobs define them just confuse me. Frankly, life is too short and people focus so much on working and making money and materialism that it's a massive turn off. I just need enough money to not have to worry about bills, beyond that life shouldn't be about it.

 

Especially in America materialism is rampant and it's disgusting. There's more to life than owning things.

 

That didn't really answer her question.

 

But I completely get where she's coming from. I was on a date once where the guy remarked he could never date someone he thought was smarter than he was. It was interesting since he was a physician, and therefore probably pretty smart. However, the woman sitting there plugging away at the PhD is probably not the best person to say that to if you want a shot at a second date.

 

As a side note, that type of arrogance is precisely why I never date doctors, I can't put up with their attitude.

 

To me, my work is like playing. It does come with a lot of exciting professional achievements though. I will most certainly be celebrating future achievements. My current BF seems willing to celebrate right along with me, so that seems promising.

[Ruby Slippers]

I can only speak from my POV, but people who let their jobs define them just confuse me. Frankly, life is too short and people focus so much on working and making money and materialism that it's a massive turn off. I just need enough money to not have to worry about bills, beyond that life shouldn't be about it.

 

Especially in America materialism is rampant and it's disgusting. There's more to life than owning things.

I am far from materialistic. My boyfriends have always been more into things and spent more money on them than I have.

 

I left behind the corporate world to start my own business (a business that allows me to make a living with my creativity), I have been bootstrapping it all the way, and now it is really starting to take off.

 

But this dynamic has been there across all areas, not just career/money. For instance, my last boyfriend was an expert-level guitar player and a very good singer-songwriter. I am a mid-level guitar player and pretty good singer-songwriter. He told me I was a better singer-songwriter than he'll ever be, and though we was proud of me and happy to have a girlfriend who is a good musician, he was also jealous of it.

 

This came AFTER he criticized my singing and songwriting on numerous occasions. I could never figure out why he was being so critical of me. It really hurt my feelings that he was being so unsupportive. (This criticism extended to other areas, too, like my fledgling business.) And then when he admitted the jealousy, it all made sense.

 

I told him he was a way better guitar player than I am, and I was proud of him for that. I loved to see him shine! I never felt jealous of his musicianship. I was proud of it, and I tried to learn from it. I found it really sad that this didn't go both ways.

[Pyro]

How is simply speaking how you feel being a crybaby? It's the so called enlightened men who will be crying when their wife loses the attraction and takes off with some player who knows how to make her respect him.

 

You speak how you feel over and over and over again. We got it after the first couple of times.

 

Its ok to cry/complain if something like that were to happen.....at first. Eventually there is a point in time where you have to accept it, learn from it and get back on your horse and put yourself out there again. You aren't going to improve yourself or situation any by just sitting there, bitching about it and not trying.

 

Is it not hilarious that someone with 19,000 posts on a relationship forum is saying this?

 

You're all girly men, nyahahahahahahha

 

If you are ever that bored, go back and read my 19,000 posts and you will not find one where I am bitter and blame all my problems on the entire female gender like a majority of the crybabies here tend to do.

[Ruby Slippers]

But I completely get where she's coming from. I was on a date once where the guy remarked he could never date someone he thought was smarter than he was. It was interesting since he was a physician, and therefore probably pretty smart. However, the woman sitting there plugging away at the PhD is probably not the best person to say that to if you want a shot at a second date.

Yes. The last guy I dated told me that one of the things that excited him about me was that I was the first woman he couldn't dominate.

 

He said he was pretty much smarter and more successful than all the women he'd dated before, but sometimes I outsmarted him and it shocked him and also drove him wild.

 

And then he got all insecure and told me I could do better!!!!!

[pyroguy]

Rearden Metal, that was a great post.

 

Let me ask the men a question.

 

Most of my friends are smart, entrepreneurial women, and one of our biggest problems in relationships is that our guys have a hard time dealing with our success, especially if it overshadows theirs at any point. I am sad to say that I have seen some of them act like children in their attempts to criticize and knock us down a peg or two when they feel threatened like this.

 

But we don't rub it in their faces. Far from it! We are proud of them when they kick butt, and we hope they can be proud of us, too. They are supportive for the most part, but some of them have admitted they are jealous of our success, even though they wish they weren't. It brings out their insecurities and gets them talking about how they're afraid we're going to leave them for "someone better", which to me sounds ridiculous. I want to be successful and happy and share my success and happiness with the man I love!

 

I've grown past the point of dumbing myself down so men will like me more. I hope that is not the answer. And I would hate to have to downplay my happiness in those moments of accomplishment. That would be really sad. But I would be more able to do that than to pretend to be something I'm not (dumb).

 

What can a successful woman do to soften the impact of this? Seriously, tell me what to do.

 

This is a good place for me to jump in and give my POV. Ruby, the problem is that you are seeing things through your own experience and feelings. Reality can be different throughout the country.

 

The problem with many so-called successful career women is that they have a double standard, they are arrogant, and they do treat their male SO different many times if he is not on the "same level"-whatever that means.

 

For example, I've heard many times on this forum from women about not meeting men "on their level", yet they will gladly still accept dates with more successful and educated men than themselves. Using that logic, shoudn't those men disqualify the women? and if they did, you know the women would band together, crucify the man and build up the woman's esteem.

 

It wasn't long ago, I heard a talk program on the radio, where these career women were stating how they weren't as attracted to their husbands anymore, mostly because he wasn't the earner, the career individual that she was. Many of them cheated with the fellow career men. Why? is the guy not the same person? Now, if a man who cheats on his wife because she gained some weight and is not as sexual as she once was, that man would be crucified by women, correct? as he should. I think men are more annoyed at the attitute of these women, not the fact of their success. You are doing well, you didn't invent the cure for aids. And, why do men not disqualify a woman for her job? that's why men lash out. Should they scream and carry-on? no, because 1) you have that right, and 2) there is nothing they can do about it-but you can see the struggle that's happening.

 

Listen, I have a 13 year-old daughter, and I want nothing more for her than to be an independant, confident woman, and I think she will. Her mom is like that, but she never lost that "where I came from" attitude and the signifigance of the person as opposed to what he does. I hope my daughter maintains an open mind, and remembers that there are so many great people to talk to, be around, and learn from.

 

They don't all have to make what she makes or have the same education. That doesn't mean she has to aspire to be like them or date them, but she can damn well have a conversation with the maid that cleans her hotel room. She might learn something she never knew. There's many great human beings out there. I think many of us have forgotten that.

 

To that point, yes, I hope if she gets her job in the music business, that she doesn't rule out the guy who teaches elementary school, or the guy who works in a trade. She has that right, but I hope she doesn't , to be honest.

 

This is what I think men are struggling with-it's culture shock. I think men feel that, for the first time ever, they (men) value the opposite sex for the human being they are more than women. While women can have any standards they wish, I think men will continue to be a bit miffed at the perceived double standard and coldness.

 

It's a very robotic society today. People choose mates based on questionare's full of mostly things that are surface traits. I'll say this, is it a coincidence that we are choosing this way today, yet there is more relationship misery, cheating and divorce than ever. And, no, I don't agree that it's all because it's just reported more, or that women don't have to live unhappily anymore.

[sally4sara]

It's happened for a long time, and it doesn't get reported because men don't want to admit they've been abused.

 

If a woman hits a guy with a frying pan, it doesn't get reported. If the man shoves her down to stop her, the cops get called and he's an abusive person.

 

It's a double standard that's existed for some time. There are plenty of women who hit men and sit there smugly because they know they won't get hit back, or when they do they freak and act like they did nothing wrong. Believe me, I've seen it quite a bit.

 

You are talking about assault where I was talking about cheating and mental abuse.

 

Assault is a clear cut case and if a guy can't bring himself to report simply because he is worried OTHER MEN will think less of him - HE IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[Left in a Lurch]

What someone above posted is true I think. When I was younger I had to learn to be tough. If you mouthed off to an adult, even a stranger, you might get a smack. If you finished in last place nobody patted you on the back and said, "yay, way to go!" When you sucked at sports you got picked last. When you got picked on you learned to defend yourself.

 

Now if is kid mouths off to an adult or a teacher, that adult or teacher is crucified. If they finish last, their trophy is the same as the one that finished first. If they get picked on, it becomes a major event. If they mess up the parents rush to their side and blame everyone but the kid. The kids are taught there are no consequences so it's no wonder they act more emotional.

[phineas]

We women have more money, power, and freedom than we have in a long time (may have had more in some ancient cultures, such as Egyptian and those with goddess-based religions and myths). Because we have more money, power, and freedom, we don't have to depend on men like we used to, and that means we don't have to put up with behavior and treatment we don't want to put up with. We can be choosier with our mates. Naturally, the men who fall below our expectations and are not chosen are bitter.

 

The only sound path for us women is to drive our own destinies. The strong, capable men we want will keep up with us and evolve along with us. Those who can't keep up will disqualify themselves.

 

Complaints from men about how much women suck is the best evidence of mate unsuitability there is.

 

That whole "we have more money, power, & freedom" thing makes zero sense to me.

"we" meaning "you" never lived in an era when women had less money, power, & freedom.

 

The men of today never lived in those era's either.

 

Nobody dateing today lived that life. Applying it as an example is senseless.

 

That's like me hunting down the decendant of the man who killed my great,great,great grandfather & killing him in revenge.

[Twenty-ten]

That whole "we have more money, power, & freedom" thing makes zero sense to me.

"we" meaning "you" never lived in an era when women had less money, power, & freedom.

 

The men of today never lived in those era's either.

 

Nobody dateing today lived that life. Applying it as an example is senseless.

 

 

 

Yes but our parents and their parents did, and those are our role models and the people who are responsible for our upbringings. The next generations to come will fall more in line with what you are saying but for the time being what RS said does hold a lot of weight if you think about it.

[sally4sara]

That whole "we have more money, power, & freedom" thing makes zero sense to me.

"we" meaning "you" never lived in an era when women had less money, power, & freedom.

The men of today never lived in those era's either.

 

Nobody dateing today lived that life. Applying it as an example is senseless.

 

That's like me hunting down the decendant of the man who killed my great,great,great grandfather & killing him in revenge.

 

And it is exactly why the old male attitude of right to authority doesn't apply anymore. It isn't something done out of revenge. It is that women have every reason to see themselves as equal entities with no reason to take the position of subjugation, especially now that it is without merit.

They are not seeking revenge, they seek a level playing field because they know they can ball. If a guy can't wrap his head around it, he is the one with the problem, not the women who refuse to pretend to be flailing maidens and prop up his masculinity. Be a man for your own merit, not because you've surrounded yourself with weak acting people.

 

Its much like taking a guy from the 50s, putting him in a petticoat and dropping him off in the old west.

Edited March 15, 2010 by sally4sara

[threebyfate]

Absolute power will always corrupt. Just look at history.

[phineas]

Yes but our parents and their parents did, and those are our role models and the people who are responsible for our upbringings. The next generations to come will fall more in line with what you are saying but for the time being what RS said does hold a lot of weight if you think about it.

 

My dad doesn't lord over my mom & never did because Their both mid 60's.

My uncles on both sides of the family are hen-pecked if anything by their wives.

 

The revenge for how women were treated 100yrs ago just looks like an excuse for entitlement if you asked my opinion.

[homersheineken]

Rearden Metal, that was a great post.

 

Let me ask the men a question.

 

Most of my friends are smart, entrepreneurial women, and one of our biggest problems in relationships is that our guys have a hard time dealing with our success, especially if it overshadows theirs at any point. I am sad to say that I have seen some of them act like children in their attempts to criticize and knock us down a peg or two when they feel threatened like this.

 

But we don't rub it in their faces. Far from it! We are proud of them when they kick butt, and we hope they can be proud of us, too. They are supportive for the most part, but some of them have admitted they are jealous of our success, even though they wish they weren't. It brings out their insecurities and gets them talking about how they're afraid we're going to leave them for "someone better", which to me sounds ridiculous. I want to be successful and happy and share my success and happiness with the man I love!

 

I've grown past the point of dumbing myself down so men will like me more. I hope that is not the answer. And I would hate to have to downplay my happiness in those moments of accomplishment. That would be really sad. But I would be more able to do that than to pretend to be something I'm not (dumb).

 

What can a successful woman do to soften the impact of this? Seriously, tell me what to do.

 

I'd love to have me a sugar-momma! That said I'm also a doctoral student with a technical career in a completely different field. So maybe that's why I wouldn't feel overshadowed.

 

Who are you dating and where you meeting them? Are the men you meet professional/successful career-wise?

 

And it's not silly/ridiculous for them to think you'll find someone better. It's the same reason why aging women do everything they can to look younger. What have you done to prove you won't leave for the "next best"?

[Twenty-ten]

My dad doesn't lord over my mom & never did because Their both mid 60's.

My uncles on both sides of the family are hen-pecked if anything by their wives.

 

The revenge for how women were treated 100yrs ago just looks like an excuse for entitlement if you asked my opinion.

 

 

Well if you could be a woman living 60 years ago you would understand how things were then and how they have changed now. Saying that this happened in some obscure section of history over a century ago means you haven't a clue about social history.

 

It's not "revenge", why are you looking at it as revenge? It is finding a place in society that women deserved.

 

It isn't entitlement if you claim what you are owed, it's fair play for what you deserve.

[Rearden Metal]

It's happened for a long time, and it doesn't get reported because men don't want to admit they've been abused.

 

If a woman hits a guy with a frying pan, it doesn't get reported. If the man shoves her down to stop her, the cops get called and he's an abusive person.

 

It's a double standard that's existed for some time. There are plenty of women who hit men and sit there smugly because they know they won't get hit back, or when they do they freak and act like they did nothing wrong. Believe me, I've seen it quite a bit.

 

I've lived this scenario and spent a night in jail. 100% truth.

[phineas]

My buddy talked about his criteria for woman once.

 

He can be with a woman that was smarter than him. but only if he could take her in a fair fight.

 

He can be with a woman that can take him in a fair fight but only if he was smarter than her.

 

considering he's done martial arts for 20yrs & has had his ass handed to him by many women in martial arts practice it's actually quite funny.