Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 This is a spin off another thread, where a few posters said that obviously, if a woman dresses up or if a woman goes to a bar, she does so (solely) in the hopes of attracting male attention. I feel this is reductive of the many potential motivations behind why people do what they do. But mostly, it makes me wonder if (some) men do everything just to attract female attention? Like, men, do you only dress up to impress women? What about working out? And do you only ever go to the bar to hopefully hook up with someone?
Lakeside_runner Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 I work out... I work out a lot and it's not for the sake of attracting women. I'm a long distance runner/triathlete/martial artist and I do it for myself. I get the kicks out of how fast I can run given distance and try constantly to improve it. I get the kicks of progressing to higher levels in Aikido. This gives me something to look forward in the future. It makes me feel good about myself and my life. Gives me some purpose So I don't think that when men work out it is solely for the purpose of attracting women.
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 Gives me some purpose So I don't think that when men work out it is solely for the purpose of attracting women. Thanks Lakeside: and that sounds great and mirrors why I swim laps, do yoga and do cardio. I mostly do it to manage stress and to push myself further. Exercise feel good. Sure, sometimes my motivation is "looking good", but it isn't the only reason I exercise. What about dressing up? Would some LSers, men or women, like to explain what goes through their minds when they decide to take it up a notch?
counterman Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 I exercise and work out to stay in shape and it makes me feel good about myself. When I feel good about myself, I feel good about other things and I am more upbeat and friendly around people. Also, I do those things especially if I have a sporting event coming up, oh and to look after my health of course. As for dressing up, I would say I want to look close to my best all the time. I feel good about myself as well when I think I am looking good. It is not necessarily done to impress women, though maybe a part of me does. I would put in the extra effort for a date though. I think for women, not all, some do dress up to compete against other women. There's also social status as well. I noticed that my ex would dress up more when we went out to a dinner party or something, because other girls were around. I wouldn't go to a bar to look for or hook up with women though.
Lakeside_runner Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 Dressing up... I've those days when I like to dress up and just be the master of my faith . It feels good. These are usually the days I go out to work and smile at random people on the street (not that I'm not doing that on a regular basis). It's just - when you're all dressed up you attract more looks and giving a smile makes my and somebody else's day I gave it a thought and it looks like there could be two types of people: 1. Those who exercise and dress up for themselves. 2. Posers - who do the above just to impress others. I think, you can usually spot the difference since #2 usually quits exercising very soon (well you've to wait to see any effects, right?) and when they dress up they are uncomfortable and seem to want to get out of the outfit as soon as possible! For #1 all this comes naturally...
Ariadne Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 What about dressing up? Would some LSers, men or women, like to explain what goes through their minds when they decide to take it up a notch? When people dress up nicely is because they have someone in mind they want to impress.
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 You would be surprised at how many things men do to impress women, even to the point of career choice.
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 (edited) I mentioned this in another thread, but even when people dress "for themselves" there's a strong social influence. Our society values appearances and people are socialized from an early age to associate good looks with normalcy and happiness. In a society that didn't put a premium on physical appearance, nobody would care about how they looked aside from staying healthy. There's nothing wrong with people wanting to look good for themselves, but it irks me when they pretend that there's no social influence on why they do. Edited March 14, 2010 by shadowplay
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 Yes, more women's perspectives on dressing up would be great. I think my approach to dressing up very closely resembles that of counterman and Lakeside runner. I love days when I get up, am in a good mood, put together a cute outfit and then hit the street with a smile on my face. Then there are the times, when bf plans a special date, when I will dress sexy for him. But that's one specific type of dressing up, and again, the point is more to make me feel good then to impress bf (who, as far as I can tell, is honest when he says that to him I look good in everything). I also feel that we dress to express our social belonging. I tend to wear "bohemian chic", a mix of designer pieces with vintage and second hand stuff. Most of my social network dresses this way too. I just don't understand why some people would insist that one sex's choices are solely geared towards impressing the other sex. Why would men and women be so different on this front?
tkgirl Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 I while back I went on this date with a guy I met online. We were talking about what we like to do and I told him how I really like to run and was training for a half marathon at the time... And he goes "you don't need to worry about working out, you're in great shape". I know he was trying to compliment me but I got so offended! I was like "hello! I actually enjoy working out!" I'll admit one of the perks of being active is looking better too, but mostly I do it because it makes me feel better!
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 I agree with you and also feel there is a strong social influence to all the choices people make. I don't think, however, that those choices are informed by one single deciding factor. Like, not all my choices are geared toward landing a husband. Sure, sometimes I dress sexy for my bf, but most times I dress up because that's what people in my social network and work envrionment do. Also, there are a lot of bisexual or lesbian people in my network, and they dress up too. (In response to the point you made in the other thread about women dressing to impress men). What I'm saying is that many different people have many different motivators at different times for their actions. It cannot be reduced to wanting to impress potential mates. Sure, that is part of it, but not the only part of it. Plus, when some posters say that women only dress up to impress men, it makes me feel like they think women's lives revolve around landing a man. Again, I find this incredibly reductive and it doesn't account for all the women who dress up even though they are in happy relationships (such as you and I) You would be surprised at how many things men do to impress women, even to the point of career choice. Career choice... Good example. Would posters like to comment on what motivated them to choose their career?
tkgirl Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 Yes, more women's perspectives on dressing up would be great. I think my approach to dressing up very closely resembles that of counterman and Lakeside runner. I love days when I get up, am in a good mood, put together a cute outfit and then hit the street with a smile on my face. Then there are the times, when bf plans a special date, when I will dress sexy for him. But that's one specific type of dressing up, and again, the point is more to make me feel good then to impress bf (who, as far as I can tell, is honest when he says that to him I look good in everything). I also feel that we dress to express our social belonging. I tend to wear "bohemian chic", a mix of designer pieces with vintage and second hand stuff. Most of my social network dresses this way too. I just don't understand why some people would insist that one sex's choices are solely geared towards impressing the other sex. Why would men and women be so different on this front? It's like the line in that Van Morrison song "all the girls walk by, dressed up for each other" To me it's pretty easy to impress guys with how we look or dress, so it's almost like I enjoy getting compliments from other women on my clothes, accessories etc. more... hmmm....
counterman Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 As shadowplay, there is a strong social influence on the way we look. I mean, I've been noticing around my area that people are more geared to dress a certain way. You notice it over time. A person dresses a particular way gradually dresses alike with others in his social group. Even for myself, the clothes I wear have been influenced by trends. However, if it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work and I am not going to force it. By the way, when I was younger, I use to wear clothes that were passed down and some of them were too big for me. I just didn't feel comfortable in them. Now, I feel better wearing something I chose and something I like. In saying that, I know of people who, as Lakeside_runner described, pose. A few of my friends do this. What do they expect? Girls to suddenly approach them and ask them out? The purchase really expensive clothing and when the "benefits" aren't reaped, they start bragging about how much their clothes cost (it might not even look good on them either). I don't know why some people think that others are so geared to impress the other sex. However, a scientist (forgot who) said that whatever us men do, we do to impress and attract the opposite sex, whether it is to study, to get a good job, and so on. Maybe that has something to do with.
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 It's like the line in that Van Morrison song "all the girls walk by, dressed up for each other" To me it's pretty easy to impress guys with how we look or dress, so it's almost like I enjoy getting compliments from other women on my clothes, accessories etc. more... hmmm.... I know! I admit my sense of style is perhaps geared more towards impressing women then impressing men. Women "get" style and plus, like counterman just pointed out, I find I eventually adopt the style of the people around me... and that means adopting the style of the women around me. that's why I was intrigued, Shadow, when you agreed in the other thread, that women dress to impress men. Perhaps you could explain your rationale?
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 (edited) I know! I admit my sense of style is perhaps geared more towards impressing women then impressing men. Women "get" style and plus, like counterman just pointed out, I find I eventually adopt the style of the people around me... and that means adopting the style of the women around me. that's why I was intrigued, Shadow, when you agreed in the other thread, that women dress to impress men. Perhaps you could explain your rationale? I think that even when women dress for each other, it's often indirectly because of men. Women compete with each other for men. This creates anxieties among women about who is the prettiest and who looks the best. Some women will cut others down based on how they dress and then the rest try to improve their appearance so they don't get criticized. But it all originates in the male influence because without it appearance wouldn't be a source of competition in the first place. Edited March 14, 2010 by shadowplay
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 I think that even when women dress for each other, it's often indirectly because of men. Women compete with each other for men. This creates anxieties among women about who is the prettiest and who looks the best. So that we would want to keep looking our best to hang on to our partners? That's possible. However, I hardly ever feel in competition with other women. I am not the best looking person out there, and yet I manage to lead a very agreeable life, filled with love and great friends. So perhaps this is the case for some women but not all women? What about men? Do you think there's something similar for men?
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 (edited) So that we would want to keep looking our best to hang on to our partners? That's possible. However, I hardly ever feel in competition with other women. I am not the best looking person out there, and yet I manage to lead a very agreeable life, filled with love and great friends. So perhaps this is the case for some women but not all women? What about men? Do you think there's something similar for men? No, what I mean is that appearance becomes a source of competition among women because men value it. When women dress to impress each other it's because men have turned physical appearance into something valuable that is worth competing over. I still think my point about the lesbian community dressing down is an apt one. When you take men out of the equation women stop competing over how they dress. There are some lesbians who dress up, but for the most part they don't care and just wear what's comfy. They do still comfort to a certain dressing code, though, but that's more to assert identity and group membership then look "good." Yeah, it's the case for some women but not all. Edited March 14, 2010 by shadowplay
Star Gazer Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 Yes, more women's perspectives on dressing up would be great. I think my approach to dressing up very closely resembles that of counterman and Lakeside runner. I love days when I get up, am in a good mood, put together a cute outfit and then hit the street with a smile on my face. Then there are the times, when bf plans a special date, when I will dress sexy for him. But that's one specific type of dressing up, and again, the point is more to make me feel good then to impress bf (who, as far as I can tell, is honest when he says that to him I look good in everything). I also feel that we dress to express our social belonging. I tend to wear "bohemian chic", a mix of designer pieces with vintage and second hand stuff. Most of my social network dresses this way too. I just don't understand why some people would insist that one sex's choices are solely geared towards impressing the other sex. Why would men and women be so different on this front? I couldn't agree more, with everything you said. My social group dresses the same too - a sort of casual, yet classic elegance.
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 No, what I mean is that appearance becomes a source of competition among women because men value it. When women dress to impress each other it's because men have made turned physical appearance into something valuable that (women many women believe) is worth competing over. Yeah, it's the case for some women but not all. It makes a lot of sense Shadow and it's hard to refute your analysis. Yet, I struggle to accept that gender differences are at the core of how I choose to dress myself. I guess I like to imagine myself as being emancipated from gender expectations. But still, you're not saying the same thing that some of the other (male) posters were saying in the other thread, which was that the only possible reason women dress up is to consciously garner male attention. That I find offensive: as if all my conscious choices revolve around men and that I only dress, or work out, or go to bars to impress men. Not only does it reduce women's choices to revolve around men, it is a highly heteronormative take on society.
Author Kamille Posted March 14, 2010 Author Posted March 14, 2010 I couldn't agree more, with everything you said. My social group dresses the same too - a sort of casual, yet classic elegance. Yeah, I really feel like I dress more to express my social belonging then I do to impress the other sex. Of course, the unintended consequences of dressing according to my social peers is that I thereby mostly attract men from that same social network-class. So maybe Shadow is onto something. I have to go out, but thanks everyone for the replies so far.
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 It makes a lot of sense Shadow and it's hard to refute your analysis. Yet, I struggle to accept that gender differences are at the core of how I choose to dress myself. I guess I like to imagine myself as being emancipated from gender expectations. But still, you're not saying the same thing that some of the other (male) posters were saying in the other thread, which was that the only possible reason women dress up is to consciously garner male attention. That I find offensive: as if all my conscious choices revolve around men and that I only dress, or work out, or go to bars to impress men. Not only does it reduce women's choices to revolve around men, it is a highly heteronormative take on society. In your case the influence of men is probably still there but even less direct. Since you're not the competitive type, I would guess your dressing style is more influenced by a desire to assert group membership and identity than compete with other women to look the best. But there's still the indirect male influence, because the competitive females often set the dressing trends for the whole group.
Star Gazer Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 I know! I admit my sense of style is perhaps geared more towards impressing women then impressing men. Women "get" style and plus, like counterman just pointed out, I find I eventually adopt the style of the people around me... and that means adopting the style of the women around me. I think women dress to impress in two different ways - sometimes it's to impress women (with style), and sometimes it's to impress men (with sex appeal). What women find attractive in clothing, often men do not - they don't "get" fashion (typically) and really just prefer our butts and boobs to be more pronounced! For example, if I was going to a nice dinner with girlfriends, I'd wear something completely different than I would if I was going to a nice dinner with my BF. With my GFs, I'd be likely to wear something a little more current and fun (but not quite "trendy") that may not be as figure hugging or classically sexy as something I'd wear with my BF.
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 And I'm not saying that individuality doesn't come into play. There are many influences on how people dress, as you wrote earlier. But even when dressing is about expressing individuality, it's still about what others think because you're trying to communicate who you are to them. It's not really just for you.
tkgirl Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 Yeah, I really feel like I dress more to express my social belonging then I do to impress the other sex. Of course, the unintended consequences of dressing according to my social peers is that I thereby mostly attract men from that same social network-class. So maybe Shadow is onto something. I have to go out, but thanks everyone for the replies so far. so what are you going to wear?
shadowplay Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 There may also be a hard-wiring influence. Women seem to be more into collecting "pretty" things while men are into collecting "cool" things. I'm like that. Even as a kid I would collect tiny figurines that I thought were cute or beautiful. My brother collected "cool" things like rocks, old coins, etc. Women satisfy their craving for pretty things by buying clothes. Men satisfy their craving for cool things by buying gadgets and tools.
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