jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 And I agree with JJ that a cheater can still be a good person. Perhaps her MM is someone who made a bad promise, who doesn't like backing down from that promise, yet needs to fulfill certain obligations he entered into before he can be free to live out in the open celebrating his love. Interestingly and ironically enough it was a promise not kept that made my MM contact me after 31 years. Promises are a big deal to him. Our song is Fields of Gold. Look at the bolded part. This is not a coincidence. You'll remember me when the west wind moves Upon the fields of barley You'll forget the sun in his jealous sky As we walk in the fields of gold So she took her love For to gaze awhile Upon the fields of barley In his arms she fell as her hair came down Among the fields of gold Will you stay with me, will you be my love Among the fields of barley We'll forget the sun in his jealous sky As we lie in the fields of gold See the west wind move like a lover so Upon the fields of barley Feel her body rise when you kiss her mouth Among the fields of gold I never made promises lightly And there have been some that I've broken But I swear in the days still left We'll walk in the fields of gold We'll walk in the fields of gold Many years have passed since those summer days Among the fields of barley See the children run as the sun goes down Among the fields of gold You'll remember me when the west wind moves Upon the fields of barley You can tell the sun in his jealous sky When we walked in the fields of gold When we walked in the fields of gold When we walked in the fields of gold
califnan Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Califnan....HAVE to disagree here. I have worked inside the home and outside the home and THERE IS NO JOB ON THE PLANET harder than being a stay at home mom with a household to take care of. NO JOB! It is the most exhausting one I have ever had, and I have been an investigative journalist! The job can energize, enliven, and give you some excitement, meet new people and YOU GET PAID FOR IT. SAHM, the toughest, most exhausting job on the planet. ------------------ Guess it is just my opinion then ... must be a natural born housewife / mother ... love All facets of it .. Outside the home is a grueling world to me ..
Spark1111 Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 First of all, I have always been faithful so I cannot really wrap my mind around an affair. These are just my thoughts. If you cheat, you should tell your spouse so that they can either do the same or end the relationship or heal it, knowing all truth. Now, I think some of you who have cheated would have a problem with your spouse being with another person, yet it's ok for you to do so. Tell them so that they can have the choice to revenge f**k someone so that you can know how it feels to know that your spouse is being intimate with another. Just a thought. I guarantee you, if I ever found out that my wife had an affair, I would be out for total revenge first. If I knew that she gave to another man what should only be given to me, I would give everything of myself to another woman. I would even try it hanging from the ceiling fan if I could. Something to think about. So, before you cheat, think about if you would be ok with your spouse doing the same. Jeff, what you believe is what everyone does....that and an immediate divorce upon the discovery of a cheating spouse. I know I did. When the reality hit, I was angry and devastated and cried and raged. I really love the man, always have, and have also NEVER been unfaithful, even through some really rough patches. While everyone above me on this post can debate the vows, I took them seriously to heart and always believed HE DID TOO. In all honesty, after DDAY and his continued confusion, I seriously thought about a revenge affair. Why? Not so much to hurt him, but because I was so hurt. I NEVER felt uglier and more worthless in my life because I was forced to assume my love and devotion WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE MAN I LOVED. So then I thought, who would it be good enough for?, and it was less about sex, or revenge, as it was an antidote for my pain and battered self-esteem. I thought if someone, anyone found me desirable, maybe it would hurt less. Those were my thoughts in my darkest moments. But, I did not do it. I realized, no matter what craziness, that just wasn't who I was and had never been. It would have caused more pain to an already too painful situation. I had ALWAYS had my integrity and I wanted to come through this most horrible discovery with that intact. I am so glad I did, no matter what the outcome of the future would hold, I will always have that acted true to my authentic self and I am proud of that today.
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Love can not be promised. Frankly, I agree with that. That is why I hold divorce as a valid option. But conditions of a relationship can be agreed upon, and promised. If they promised each other monogamy, and he hasn't informed her otherwise, it is morally wrong to have sex with another person while letting her believe he is still monogamous. If he never promised her monogamy, why is he hiding the affair? His deception proves his guilt. Fine, break the vows. I'm not religious, and didn't speak a single vow at our wedding. But be honest! If you agree to monogamy, let your partner know before you decide to go another route. It's the right thing to do. I told my SO from day one about MM. That is the way I do it. I do not lie or hide stuff. I would never do what my MM does. But I have had to learn to understand that not everybody functions like me, reasons like me. That some people find it so hard to break a promise they will rather fulfill the promise as much as they are able to, even if it means having secrets and in fact being unfaithful.
Spark1111 Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 ------------------ Guess it is just my opinion then ... must be a natural born housewife / mother ... love All facets of it .. Outside the home is a grueling world to me .. Stop selling yourself short then! Woman to woman, it's the toughest job out there. If you do not believe it, when YOU start bringing a paycheck home and HE has to start picking some of the tasks YOU did everyday, watch the changes that take place. YOU provide an invaluable service to your spouse and your children and everyone should heap gratitude not only that you do it, but that you are happy to do it. DON'T FORGET that you deserve RESPECT for the SAHM job!
bentnotbroken Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Spark, This applies to the BS as well. Fear is a great motivator and a great paralysis. Above love, above respect, above all else, unfortunately fear tends to be the motivating factor for all parties. That is the sad point. If you can take out fear, what would people choose? Dignity, respect, honor and maybe freedom.
silverfish Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Most non religious wedding ceremonies have vows such as 'forsaking all others'...it's not about god, it's about a promise / vow to another person. If your AP has made a 'bad' promise, or broken a vow / promise, then why does he feel the need to fulfill some seperate 'obligation' in his M? Why fulfill one promise or obligation, but not fulfill another vow / promise...?
Spark1111 Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Spark, This applies to the BS as well. Fear is a great motivator and a great paralysis. Above love, above respect, above all else, unfortunately fear tends to be the motivating factor for all parties. That is the sad point. If you can take out fear, what would people choose? THen CONFRONT your fears and change your life to lead a more authentic life for YOU. With them, or without them. MAKE IT WORK or WALK AWAY. And stop leaving this wake of self-destructive attitudes and emotions in your path.
bentnotbroken Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Interestingly and ironically enough it was a promise not kept that made my MM contact me after 31 years. Promises are a big deal to him. Our song is Fields of Gold. Look at the bolded part. This is not a coincidence. You'll remember me when the west wind moves Upon the fields of barley You'll forget the sun in his jealous sky As we walk in the fields of gold So she took her love For to gaze awhile Upon the fields of barley In his arms she fell as her hair came down Among the fields of gold Will you stay with me, will you be my love Among the fields of barley We'll forget the sun in his jealous sky As we lie in the fields of gold See the west wind move like a lover so Upon the fields of barley Feel her body rise when you kiss her mouth Among the fields of gold I never made promises lightly And there have been some that I've broken But I swear in the days still left We'll walk in the fields of gold We'll walk in the fields of gold Many years have passed since those summer days Among the fields of barley See the children run as the sun goes down Among the fields of gold You'll remember me when the west wind moves Upon the fields of barley You can tell the sun in his jealous sky When we walked in the fields of gold When we walked in the fields of gold When we walked in the fields of gold And maybe you really will walk in those fields. But it will surely be after he finishes walking through the dung hills of lies.
PhoenixRise Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Stop selling yourself short then! Woman to woman, it's the toughest job out there. If you do not believe it, when YOU start bringing a paycheck home and HE has to start picking some of the tasks YOU did everyday, watch the changes that take place. YOU provide an invaluable service to your spouse and your children and everyone should heap gratitude not only that you do it, but that you are happy to do it. DON'T FORGET that you deserve RESPECT for the SAHM job! Yes Indeed And you don't get days off. The job doesn't end a 5pm. It is all the time every day. You don't even get the validation of a paycheck, a raise, a promotion. It is hard/ valuable work.
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Most non religious wedding ceremonies have vows such as 'forsaking all others'...it's not about god, it's about a promise / vow to another person. If your AP has made a 'bad' promise, or broken a vow / promise, then why does he feel the need to fulfill some seperate 'obligation' in his M? Why fulfill one promise or obligation, but not fulfill another vow / promise...? Because he is doing the best he can to fulfill the promises he has made. Remember he tried and tried to end our relationship until he finally gave up and gave in to the fact that he was not capable of doing so. He is living a compromise, trying to do his best. I did not know people like him existed before, people who valued vows and promises so much they would even be dishonest to keep them. I have had to learn that the hard way. Life is complicated. There are different kinds of people out there. For some people getting a divorce is a very difficult step to take.
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 And maybe you really will walk in those fields. But it will surely be after he finishes walking through the dung hills of lies. See to me posting such a comment to somebody posting a love song is very unethical. But then I very seldom agree with your style of posting, BNB. As I said, it is unethical to me. Which shows, once again, different people have different perceptions of morals and ethics.
Spark1111 Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 A few points on this thread of interest to me. Firstly, keeping a marriage promise is not the be all and end all in ethics. If you make a bad promise, should you keep it? OF COURSE NOT! Break the promise AFTER taking every measure to see if you can keep it or not, and if no....walk away and set your spouse free. If neither you nor your W has cheated, why are you posting here? Do you want to know why you don't cheat? Maybe because you think breaking the promise is unethical, not the fact you made it. TBH, people in love do not feel they are behaving unethically IME, while they may care about the hurt they cause. Promises they stupidly made play no part. Then break the promise through divorce and set your spouse free. Love is too often used to excuse the inexcusable, IMO. YOUR love for another is not SUPPOSE TO DEVASTATE YOUR SPOUSE. When I was in an A, and in fact prior to the A, I would have liked my H to form an emotional attachment to someone else, with or without attendant sex. It would have made leaving him guilt free. And staying with him despite my wayward leanings more bearable too. I would have wished him luck. Not all people in As are hypocritical in this way. Because that would make it EASIER for you, not your spouse. This here avoid conflicts you had in your marital relationship. Stop avoiding them. And I agree with JJ that a cheater can still be a good person. Perhaps her MM is someone who made a bad promise, who doesn't like backing down from that promise, yet needs to fulfill certain obligations he entered into before he can be free to live out in the open celebrating his love. This reasoning drives me crazy. What obligations? Another typical smokescreen. He has an obligation to love, honor and remain faithful to his spouse, which he ignores to have sex with his OW, but he needs to built that retirement fund and keep the equity in his home before he can be truthful with the spouse. HAHAHAHA! I really don't think love is ever a bad thing. I think societal expectations often make it feel like it might be. I think love is used as the "end all be all "reason to be a major SOB to the people in your life, family and friends, who have no idea of your double life. THAT is why affairs MUST BE SECRET. And cheating when you are not in love with the AP? I know little about that, but what I do know tells me that it doesn't work if you have a conscience or respect for the sex act. But I wouldn't judge someone who did that either. I probably wouldn't want a relationship with them though (hell, I sound like Dexter! ) It is STILL SELFISH, not matter how someone tries to justify it, IMO.
xxoo Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Because he is doing the best he can to fulfill the promises he has made. Remember he tried and tried to end our relationship until he finally gave up and gave in to the fact that he was not capable of doing so. He is living a compromise, trying to do his best. I did not know people like him existed before, people who valued vows and promises so much they would even be dishonest to keep them. I have had to learn that the hard way. Life is complicated. There are different kinds of people out there. For some people getting a divorce is a very difficult step to take. But he isn't keeping his promise. He is sticking around, but that is because it is easier than leaving. The hard part of keeping his promise to his wife was to be sexually faithful. So he didn't do that part. Having a pleasurable relationship with another woman is easy. Being honest about it and facing the consequences is difficult. Did he promise to stick with her and hide infidelities? Or did he promise to be faithful? If he values promises so much, why is he sleeping with you?
bentnotbroken Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 See to me posting such a comment to somebody posting a love song is very unethical. But then I very seldom agree with your style of posting, BNB. As I said, it is unethical to me. Which shows, once again, different people have different perceptions of morals and ethics. Of course we won't agree. I think sleeping with a lying, deceitful, emotional abusing cheater is unethical. What you consider a love song may not be what I consider a love song...kwim.
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Originally posted by Spark: "This reasoning drives me crazy. What obligations? Another typical smokescreen. He has an obligation to love, honor and remain faithful to his spouse, which he ignores to have sex with his OW, but he needs to built that retirement fund and keep the equity in his home before he can be truthful with the spouse. HAHAHAHA!" Heard about kids? Being the provider for the family unit? Keeping the family together? ...
Spark1111 Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Because he is doing the best he can to fulfill the promises he has made. Remember he tried and tried to end our relationship until he finally gave up and gave in to the fact that he was not capable of doing so. He is living a compromise, trying to do his best. I did not know people like him existed before, people who valued vows and promises so much they would even be dishonest to keep them. I have had to learn that the hard way. Life is complicated. There are different kinds of people out there. For some people getting a divorce is a very difficult step to take. Jennie....WHY? Why is it so difficult to divorce? Why is it easier to have the wife and family at home and lie to them, and have to OW or OM on the side and NEVER fully commit to them? Because of LOVE? True love is not suppose to hurt anyone, IMHO. Selfishness....selfishness hurts everyone, but I do not think true love should. And I do not know your MM, but this seems to be a common line in the affair script because it allows the OW to pity the poor tortured soul who must fulfill familial obligations and is devastated by being torn between the true love he has with you and obligations he has at home. This dynamic keeps the affair going for years, IF the OW BELIEVES IT, and sees the MM as noble person who just can't hurt his family. What a prince!
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 But he isn't keeping his promise. He is sticking around, but that is because it is easier than leaving. The hard part of keeping his promise to his wife was to be sexually faithful. So he didn't do that part. Having a pleasurable relationship with another woman is easy. Being honest about it and facing the consequences is difficult. Did he promise to stick with her and hide infidelities? Or did he promise to be faithful? If he values promises so much, why is he sleeping with you? He has learnt his lesson. Never again will he marry, never again will he make vows to stay with a woman forever.
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Jennie....WHY? Why is it so difficult to divorce? Why is it easier to have the wife and family at home and lie to them, and have to OW or OM on the side and NEVER fully commit to them? Because of LOVE? True love is not suppose to hurt anyone, IMHO. Selfishness....selfishness hurts everyone, but I do not think true love should. And I do not know your MM, but this seems to be a common line in the affair script because it allows the OW to pity the poor tortured soul who must fulfill familial obligations and is devastated by being torn between the true love he has with you and obligations he has at home. This dynamic keeps the affair going for years, IF the OW BELIEVES IT, and sees the MM as noble person who just can't hurt his family. What a prince! I did not understand this either until I learnt about the split self affairs. For these people "to do the right thing" is how they have survived throughout life.
Spark1111 Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Originally posted by Spark: "This reasoning drives me crazy. What obligations? Another typical smokescreen. He has an obligation to love, honor and remain faithful to his spouse, which he ignores to have sex with his OW, but he needs to built that retirement fund and keep the equity in his home before he can be truthful with the spouse. HAHAHAHA!" Heard about kids? Being the provider for the family unit? Keeping the family together? ... At what cost Jennie? Do you want a paycheck, or a passionate loving relationship with your SO? Why does he have you convinced he can't provide for them and be with you? You are a mother. How about this thought: The most important thing a man can do for his children is.....love their mother. Yep. That's true. A happy wife makes for a happy mother and that makes for happy confident children. My WS told his OW that and she bought it, hook, line and sinker. Meanwhile, my children watched me take a turn to sadness because of their father's growing emotional distance from me and them. We had NO IDEA what caused the changes in him. THe whole family suffered only he was oblivious to it!
PhoenixRise Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Originally posted by Spark: "This reasoning drives me crazy. What obligations? Another typical smokescreen. He has an obligation to love, honor and remain faithful to his spouse, which he ignores to have sex with his OW, but he needs to built that retirement fund and keep the equity in his home before he can be truthful with the spouse. HAHAHAHA!" Heard about kids? Being the provider for the family unit? Keeping the family together? ... Jennie I was under the impression your MM's children were much older. Aren't they adults? or at least nearing adulthood?
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Originally posted by Spark: "This reasoning drives me crazy. What obligations? Another typical smokescreen. He has an obligation to love, honor and remain faithful to his spouse, which he ignores to have sex with his OW, but he needs to built that retirement fund and keep the equity in his home before he can be truthful with the spouse. HAHAHAHA!" Heard about kids? Being the provider for the family unit? Keeping the family together? ... At what cost Jennie? Do you want a paycheck, or a passionate loving relationship with your SO? Why does he have you convinced he can't provide for them and be with you? You are a mother. How about this thought: The most important thing a man can do for his children is.....love their mother. Yep. That's true. A happy wife makes for a happy mother and that makes for happy confident children. My WS told his OW that and she bought it, hook, line and sinker. Meanwhile, my children watched me take a turn to sadness because of their father's growing emotional distance from me and them. We had NO IDEA what caused the changes in him. THe whole family suffered only he was oblivious to it! Spark, I do not agree with his way of doing things. But I have learnt to understand how he functions. I think you and I probably lie much closer in how to handle a situation like this than my MM and I do. You don't need to convince me, I already think pretty much like you do. I was honest, I left my SO.
jennie-jennie Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 Jennie I was under the impression your MM's children were much older. Aren't they adults? or at least nearing adulthood? He has 6 underage kids. The youngest was 4 when our affair started. A couple of them are nearing adulthood now.
bentnotbroken Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 He has 6 underage kids. The youngest was 4 when our affair started. A couple of them are nearing adulthood now. This guy's character just gets better and better.
xxoo Posted March 13, 2010 Posted March 13, 2010 He has learnt his lesson. Never again will he marry, never again will he make vows to stay with a woman forever. So he will stay with her, out of a vow....but cheat on her and lie to her? Stick to the letter of the vow, but not the spirit? It sounds to me like you and he have seriously overthought the reality. Too much philosophy, too little common sense.
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