GuybrushThreepwood Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 I posted this at another forum but could use some additional input so I came here. I met this really cute girl recently and we set up a date. We went to a pool hall, had a few beers, played a few games, and really connected. Conversation was effortless, I was witty and outgoing and she was very receptive and warm and friendly. There was some playful flirting and such. At the end of the night I walked her to her car, and she told me she had a great time and would like to see me again. I kissed her and we made out for a little bit, made unspecific plans for a date the following weekend, and went our ways. When I got home I had an email from her saying again she had a great time, that I was very funny and sweet, and she hoped to see me again the next weekend. I replied saying I also had a good time and that I would call her. I waited the requisite 48 hours or whatever and called her, and we made definite plans for the next friday. I picked her up on Friday and again we had a great time, a few drinks, some more pool, and a lot of flirting and physical contact. I drove her home and walked her to her door, and again we kissed and made out a bit. She asked me when she could see me next, I suggested a few days later and she said alright. On my drive home she texted me telling me she was glad she met me and that I am quote unquote awesome. So a few days go by and we again meet, this time we had dinner and a movie and it was all fun. We went back to her place and watched a little tv, I had my arm around her, she stroked my hair and we made out a bit more. I didn't think sex was in the cards (although it was the third date and we obviously were feeling eachother, these dates were in a relatively short period of time. Also bare in mind I'm a perfect gentleman and didn't "expect" sex, just thought it might be a possibility given how well we had hit it off) so I didn't pursue it. Once AGAIN she told me she had a great time and we again decided to hang out in a few days time (I should mention this is during spring break so we both have a lot of down time right now). Date four, I went over to her place to watch a movie. We did, it was fine, I had my arm around her again and she was receptive. Her roommate came home toward the end and her demeanor totally changed. Suddenly she wasn't laughing at any of my jokes, had withdrawn herself physically and was resisted my attempt to draw her closer to me. When her roommate retired for the night my date went to the restroom, and upon returning sidled into me and was suddenly all touchy feely and friendly again. I asked her if she was uncomfortable w/ her roommate around and that was why she was withdrawn and she told me she doesn't like PDA. That's cool, I can deal with that. We watched a little more tv and cuddled and whatnot, but when I went to kiss her she was hesitant. She kissed back and then suddenly announced she was going to change into pajamas. I took this as a good sign of things to come but I was mistaken. She returned, a few minutes later I went in for another kiss and was not totally rebuffed, but she only responded with some half-hearted pecks on the lips, telling me "that's all you get". I asked her if she wasn't feeling it and she said she was just tired. Before I left she got kind of weird, though. She told me sometimes she doesn't like to be physical and that I shouldn't expect her to be receptive all the time. She said there was "a guy" in her past who "did something"...then she paused for like a solid ten seconds and I could see she was tearing up, then she told me she couldn't talk about this. I said I understood and that I will respect any boundaries she establishes, but that I also need to know she is attracted to me on a physical level and that involves some measure of physical intimacy beyond just cuddling. She apologized again, telling me that she doesn't want me to get the impression that she doesn't like me. I said "as long as you like me it's cool" and we parted ways with a final peck. So, obviously I left her place more than a little confused. She had no problem kissing me on the first few dates, and now suddenly she has issues with physical intimacy? I mean, we kissed pretty deeply those first two dates, lesser the third, and not at all the fourth. Immediately I went into paranoia mode like I always do and started to think about why this might be the case. The conclusion my crazy mind has persuaded me is to believe is that this girl is the type who needs attention from a guy, perhaps a respectful guy like myself, so she can inflate her ego but has no actual romantic interest in me. I am essentially a cuddle bitch. She hooked me in by moving quickly and now wants to take a step backwards. I'm no expert on how sexual or emotional abuse manifests in a young woman although I have listened to a lot of episodes of Loveline. Obviously she was wronged in the past by previous dudes, and maybe she genuinely has some issues with being physical. I just don't understand why after 3 good dates, in which this was not a problem, these issues would suddenly emerge. So what do I do from here? I'm giving this a few days to chew over before I ask her out again. If she again is not receptive to me and doesn't want to kiss me I'm going to have to lay my cards on the table and tell her I don't want to play games and that I need to know she is romantically interested in me, otherwise she should give me the "let's be friends" speech. I'm sorry I wrote a damn novel here but I'm just totally twisted here and could use any insight you all can provide. Also we are both in our early 20's, we are not high schoolers and both have experience dating.
boogieboy Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 The way I see it , you tried to hard and too much in one night to fool around with her. Now you make her feel like all you want to do is fool around instead of just be with her. You already made her feel used. Her withdrawing when her roommate showed up, well something is going on there, and she doesnt want her roommate to think that she is dating you for some reason. I think you should wait for her to call you. You already established that you are somewhat physical with her, so now you need to charm her into initiating the fooling around. You lay off and let her come to you. Let her see that fooling around isnt all youre thinking about.
marsle85 Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Nahh, I wouldn't worry. I think she's into you. Give her time and do NOT emphasize sex. Make her come and get it for a little while. That's not to say- be awkward and avoid kissing her, but leave them to tender, brief kisses. It's truly possible she doesn't like PDA and-- she was nervous that you were expecting sex at this point in the relationship, and that combined with her roommate entering-- didn't leave for a romantic situation.
DustySaltus Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 I personally think that she's into bad boys and doesn't know how to handle a guy like yourself. You've showed her that you're willing to take things slow and be her cuddle buddy. I think she's looking for the companionship more than anything else. What's the longest relationship she's been in? She's probably had a string of bad ones and feels out of place when things are in a normal setting. The way she reacted in front of her roomates says it all. It was almost like she didn't want them to know that she was really into you. A woman should be proud to show off a good guy. I would call her out on her nonsense. Either she'll be evasive or she'll tell you straight out what the deal is. But at least you'll know where you stand and you won't have to drive yourself crazy anymore and more importantly, waste time.
Author GuybrushThreepwood Posted March 11, 2010 Author Posted March 11, 2010 She did tell me she has dated a string of losers, mostly stoners and addicts, and the last dude she was with was the really controlling and jealous type who, after accusing her of cheating on him, then cheated on her to "beat her to the punch". I think the longest was "off and on for five years" which I assume was her high school boyfriend. Thanks for the advice everyone, I appreciate it. Any tips on "calling her out on her nonsense"? I don't want it to sound like an ultimatum, like "put out or get out" and at the same time I want to reassure her that we can move at her speed without sounding like a total pussy.
meerkat stew Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 I'd have to think twice about continuing to date a woman who tears up on an ordinary couch date without giving a concrete reason. It's rude and impulsive, and shows a low interest and respect level for you. People don't allow themselves to get needlessly emotional or run hot and cold early on with people they are into unless there is something extreme going on in their lives. IMO, she is cheating on someone else with you, has positioned you as "just a friend" with the roommate, who knows about her preexisting relationship. Her tears are coming from guilt. Just a possibility, but pretty good odds.
silic0ntoad Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 I always call people out. My other thread this girl kind of cut it off, then sounded like she wanted to recon, but IDK. It seems pretty pointless. But I called her out. Here's what I said: "Look, I understand you feel as though your privacy was breeched, but it was unintentional on my behalf. To be honest here, you never really gave me a chance. You only would chill with me after meeting up at a bar and then we'd hook up. You put no effort into getting to know me, so I kind of felt from the start I would be nothing more to you then a hook up." She evaded and changed the subject, but whatever, I called her out on it, and that's all that matters. In this case I would say "Hey, whats the deal here? The first few dates you came on just as strong as I did and now you're going cold on me. I can't bother with someone who is going to play games, and I feel like I am being played with. I need to know if you have the same intentions that I do, and if not, it's best that we part ways."
craw Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Why are you so quick to hop into her pants anyway? There's so much time in the world for that. Are you genuinely interested in this girl and see a relationship with her? if you can't come up with a decision, clearly you need to date her more and get to know her. Date as in, go out for dinner, whatever and avoid the whole watching a movie on the touch thing. If you are truly horny, go bone some other chick and continue dating this girl. Obviously, she's been mislead and treated like **** in the past and has trust issues with you. Don't take it personally, it's her being defensive and doesn't want to go into the whole CASUAL RELATIONSHIP with no meaning and fear of communication. On her part, she is behaving quite naive, in the sense that inviting a guy over to her place to watch a movie is pretty much lingo to LETS GET IT ON. not sure what she was thinking. So yeah, in other words, if you really like this girl, need to give her time to open up to you. If you find this is too much of a mind game and effort, move on.
troggleputty Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Guybrush, I like what meerkat said that she might be cheating on someone else with you; that's an interesting thought that hadn't occurred to me. However, now let me go a little "old school" on you and tell you what I think: She's what used to be known as a "tease." I.e. giving you just enough to keep your interested, but no pay off. Now you've been a polite gentleman, but not a wimp; you've made some moves and just want to escalate it normally to the "next level." That much is clear. It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong. When she brings you back to her place on the FOURTH date, you've already had a few make out session, ordinarily that would be some kind of a "signal" to escalate the physicality of the relationship. So you try that and get rebuffed, that's the technique of a "tease." The roommate I don't think is the real reason. Yes when she was present but she went away. All the tears and the baggage she was laying on you is just nonsense, an excuse to keep you on the hook with the teasing, twisted around her little finger for a few kisses. Either that or she's some kind of a psycho (although she doesn't actually sound that bad). So what you need to do now unfortunately is just "move on." Not in a "OK I will never see you again way" but rather, find some other girl/girls to start dating, don't think of this one as some kind of an exclusive relationship potential. But stay friendly with her just in case she decides she wants to heat things up a little. Dude, fourth date, at her place, you tried to kiss her and she cried--what is UP with that? She's either very manipulative (i.e. a super tease) or she's not quite right in the head. No matter how superficially attractive she is; how nice she seems; how fun it is to be with her/kiss her--I guarantee you, that she has significant psychological issues of one kind or another, whether you want to call it a "teaser," a "psycho," or whatever, that are impairing her ability to progress into a healthy, intimate, committed relationship. There are lots and lots of girls around like this one--they seem nice enough for a few dates, you want to project some kind of a "future" with them; but when things start really getting to the point of starting to get serious, they just do not have it within them to let the relationship progress. This is manifested not just in ways you've described, but in others--i.e. the girl who only can date bad boys; the chicks who have to get drunk or else they cannot get physical; eating disorders; all kinds of stuff.
Author GuybrushThreepwood Posted March 11, 2010 Author Posted March 11, 2010 Some interesting points. Thanks again everyone. I don't think she's cheating on anyone else with me (possibly she has a long distance relationship); as I said we have spring break this week and she is very available, and was last week as well. I imagine if she was with someone he'd be occupying most of her time and we'd have to meet more clandestinely. That doesn't seem to be an issue, I pick the time and the place and she never objects or says she can't make it. craw, it's not that I'm impatient and itching to get in her pants. If that were the case I would have upped the ante on the third date and made a move to another base, but I restrained myself precisely because I like her a lot and would like to be in a relationship with her (at least this was my thinking at the time) and so didn't want to be too presumptuous and risk offending her. troggleputty, I think she probably is just teasing me. Her history of dating ****heads leads me to believe she either has no idea how to proceed with me or she needed a break from "bad guys" and thought it would be fun to string along a genuinely good dude. Alright so if I confront her about being a tease and she denies it, how can I tell if she is lying? I think the obvious answer would be "when she indicates that she'd like to progress physically" but her (assumed) history of sexual abuse makes this difficult. On the other board I posted this on someone suggested that because of her history she may be uncomfortable with sex in general, and that maybe she was quick to reciprocate physicality on the first few occasions because there was little pressure to take things further. By date 3 that pressure was on and date 4 definitely so, and maybe she pulled away to indicate her growing discomfort. That makes sense but I can't help but feel she is just ****ing with me/teasing me as she doesn't seem to be particularly reserved sexually. She has made comments about wanting to go to a strip club and making out with girls in the past, which would indicate to me that she is not conservative sexually but are indications that she has been sexually abused in the past. Either way I'm not "putting all my eggs in one basket" with this girl, but I do think she's very cool, unless she's playing me in which case she is decidedly uncool.
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